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Jon Carter

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,746
The first-party 3DS games were more often than not visually underwhelming. They were shown up by Capcom and Level-5.

Game Freak won't be so lucky this time as Nintendo stepped up their game with the Switch. We'll also have Yo-kai Watch 4 out to compare.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,843
Netherlands
Playing RDR2 after Let's Go for the same amount of money, does put the perceived value out of whack. Leggo should've been $40 probably, especially for the amount of copies it will sell.

(I probably have more fun playing pokemon than red dead but still)
 

Atheerios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,097
Playing RDR2 after Let's Go for the same amount of money, does put the perceived value out of whack. Leggo should've been $40 probably, especially for the amount of copies it will sell.

(I probably have more fun playing pokemon than red dead but still)
LOL. Are you seriously asking Nintendo to price one of their most important games of the year less than $60?
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
Lol people saying the 3DS games ran poorly.

The worst things that would happen to the average player was some slowdown during battles with a lot of pokemon or fire, or with 3D turned on.
Otherwise gamefreak's games have pretty much always been super well polished aside from RBY.
So literally half the battles then.

Also any time a flying Pokemon is sent out. Poor Yveltal is such a choppy mess.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
It's obviously going to have better graphics, the Pokemon models are future-proofed so that they can be reused and look nicer every technological leap. Also, SuMo already had cutscenes.
XY had them
ORAS had them
SM/USUM had them
LG had them

there's only gonna be more, so I question why you're doubting the "bigger, prettier, more cinematic" angle
 
OP
OP
Aleh

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,295
In a world where a game that launched at $50 on Wii U and was ported to Switch at $60, complaining that a mainline Pokémon games costs as much as all other first party titles seems pointless.
 
Nov 1, 2017
655
Low budget? Yeah that's obviously not the case.
Unambitious? I don't know how you can really argue otherwise. The games haven't really evolved in scope since Gen 5 if we're being generous.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
What would you consider ambitious?
just look at other RPGs on the system. they have much wider open vistas and display more technical prowess. the 3DS's screen might have did those games a disservice, but it shows that the hardware behind them wasn't what was limiting Game Freak but their own ambitions and lack of technical experience
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Hah, no.

GameFreak is easily the prime example of an unambitious game dev. It's downright depressing how little progress this series has seen in a good dozen iterations, all the while happening to be a well-known game series of the biggest entertainment franchise in the world. Billions of profits and here we are, still struggling with framerate on subpar visuals and a heap of questionable design decisions.

"Just because they make ridiculous profits that doesn't mean they have to change much. After all, the games sell extremely well, either way." is what I often read.

And that is as true as it's unambitious to the core.
 
Nov 1, 2017
655
What would you consider ambitious?
I'd say making a meaningful evolution to the formula, which I guess to an extent you could say Sun and Moon tried to do with its emphasis on story, but I'd say in large part it failed to meaningfully differentiate itself from X/Y other than being a much more linear experience and replacing gyms with totem challenges (which weren't really all that different) it seemed like a largely iterative entry.

Not that I mind, I've still enjoyed each entry, I just don't think they've really done much other than refine the formula. Other than Let's Go changing up wild encounters the games have been mechanically the same for years.

I'll admit maybe I'm being a bit hasty in saying they've been unambitious, but to me Pokemon seems a lot like Call of Duty where the 'core' audience sees and appreciates the differences of each entry but the casual fan probably barely tells the difference outside of visuals.
 

Sid

Banned
Mar 28, 2018
3,755
It's time for a full model change like God of War, make the next entry about Pikachu and his son.
 

Opa-Opa

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 16, 2018
1,766
It's not low budget, it's just Nintendo budget (and I mean that as a compliment). That's why you can compare those games to other Nintendo games, but if you compare it to Assassin's Creed, God of War and Gears of War, you see a disparity in budget, therefore they are indeed low budget, like 95% of Nintendo games are.

Others spent so much on highly expensive things (motion capture, voice acting, ultra realistic graphics, Hollywood cutscenes, etc). Nintendo games don't demand those things and sell just as well or more, for a long time and without price cuts. A well oiled machine that demands fewer investments.

Just compare credits of games to see the difference. Nintendo's usually are about the same length as indies and at most AA.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,195
Portugal
Eh, I don't mind the simpler style/graphics. It works, it's charming. The only real main "fault" (for me) these games have is that the main story/campaign is very similar from generation to generation. They follow a certain format, that again works fairly well, but doesn't escape the repetitive feeling after playing through a few of them. It's not that they don't introduce new things/concepts, just not enough of them (in this particular issue I mean) to make it feel "fresh".

Otherwise I've been pretty happy with what we've received over the years.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
. That's why you can compare those games to other Nintendo games
only on mobile. now that they're on a console, they'll have to move in ways they never have before. we aren't talking about 3D Land or OoT3D/ALBW here, but Mario Odyssey, Breath of the Wild, and Xenoblade 2. it's a big test for Game Freak, so I hope they can bring it
 

Opa-Opa

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 16, 2018
1,766
only on mobile. now that they're on a console, they'll have to move in ways they never have before. we aren't talking about 3D Land or OoT3D/ALBW here, but Mario Odyssey, Breath of the Wild, and Xenoblade 2. it's a big test for Game Freak, so I hope they can bring it

While I do agree those games are more expensive than a 3DS game (but also sold at higher prices), my point is, even those are cheap and "low budget", imo. Maybe not BotW, which I consider a more or less exception on this "Nintendo budget" thing, but Mario is way cheaper than most things that sell like it (3 minutes credits, nothing really expensive (voices, cutscenes, motion, etc)).

Pokémon will never be high budget because it does not need too, like 95% of Nintendo games. But it'll also look great like that same 95%.
 
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Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,356
I would never call the series visually ambitious. I don't think that's necessarily a criticism in itself, and they have paid attention to their own art style over the years, but I do think "Let's Go" throws a lot of that away, which makes it harder to vouch for. It's not a poor looking game, though.
 

Galactor

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
619
ambitious in the context of Lets go would have been making every pokemon available in the post game. But that was "too much work" = unambitious.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
While I do agree those games are more expensive than a 3DS game (but also sold at higher prices), my point is, even those are cheap and "low budget", imo. Maybe not BotW, which I consider an exception on this "Nintendo budget" thing, but Mario is way cheaper than most things that sell like it (3 minutes credits, nothing really expensive (voices, cutscenes, motion, etc)).

Pokémon will never be high budget because it does not need too, like 95% of Nintendo games. But it'll also look great like that same 95%.
I'm not talking about budget. I'm talking about how Pokemon now has to match the increased scale of nintendo games on teh switch*.

in handheld terms, Zelda has gone from

tumblr_nen132pcMu1qbc2ylo2_500.gif


to

zelda-1.jpg


now I'm not expecting pokemon to go open world (yet), but I'm expecting something more than just "SM but in HD"

*well it doesn't have to, but when Pokemon will be $60 like Zelda and Xenoblade, a perception will inevitably be created

EDIT: lol, I just realized I used a Wii U shot. whatever, the game looks the same
 

Linde

Banned
Sep 2, 2018
3,983
So literally half the battles then.

Also any time a flying Pokemon is sent out. Poor Yveltal is such a choppy mess.
That's such an exaggeration its hardly funny.
Yveltal isn't even a choppy mess. Maybe if you have the 3D effect on and are constantly being hit by fire blast.
 

Slam Tilt

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,585
Playing RDR2 after Let's Go for the same amount of money, does put the perceived value out of whack. Leggo should've been $40 probably, especially for the amount of copies it will sell.

(I probably have more fun playing pokemon than red dead but still)
...so even though you admit that Pokémon was more entertaining, you're seriously arguing that it should be priced less just because it doesn't have hyper-realistic 3D graphics? Seriously?
 

Haribo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
979
They can't release that TOWN game and then have Pokemon come out looking worse.

It'll be fine guys.
 

Opa-Opa

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 16, 2018
1,766
I'm not talking about budget. I'm talking about how Pokemon now has to match the increased scale of nintendo games on teh switch*.

in handheld terms, Zelda has gone from

tumblr_nen132pcMu1qbc2ylo2_500.gif


to

zelda-1.jpg


now I'm not expecting pokemon to go open world (yet), but I'm expecting something more than just "SM but in HD"

*well it doesn't have to, but when Pokemon will be $60 like Zelda and Xenoblade, a perception will inevitably be created

EDIT: lol, I just realized I used a Wii U shot. whatever, the game looks the same


Well, yeah, scale will be larger for sure, I'm hoping for that too. They're already experimented a little with that since Black and White Castelia City and more notably Sun and Moon.

Now on a capable system it's the big test. I don't think open world, but some huge scaled places, maybe a city or forest or mountain probably will happen. But graphics will be on the "same level" of Mario and Zelda and Xenoblade, but Pokémon style, just like the games mentioned on OP.

Ps. That Majoras Mask gif is amazing, always loved that area and we learn link backflips!
 
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Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
They can't release that TOWN game and then have Pokemon come out looking worse.

It'll be fine guys.
They can release an enhanced edition of a game and then the remake without the enhancement. GF can do anything.

...so even though you admit that Pokémon was more entertaining, you're seriously arguing that it should be priced less just because it doesn't have hyper-realistic 3D graphics? Seriously?
What's so surprising? Celeste is my GotY but I wouldn't even touch it if it was $60. Price is porportional to cost, not fun.
 

Haribo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
979
It's time for a full model change like God of War, make the next entry about Pikachu and his son.
Lmaooooo shutup

They can release an enhanced edition of a game and then the remake without the enhancement. GF can do anything.
Content wise sure. But I've never seen a developer do a double back on their presentation between two titles releasing so closely together. Surely TOWN has a lower budget than the next Pokemon.
 
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nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,109
Hah, no.

GameFreak is easily the prime example of an unambitious game dev. It's downright depressing how little progress this series has seen in a good dozen iterations, all the while happening to be a well-known game series of the biggest entertainment franchise in the world. Billions of profits and here we are, still struggling with framerate on subpar visuals and a heap of questionable design decisions.

"Just because they make ridiculous profits that doesn't mean they have to change much. After all, the games sell extremely well, either way." is what I often read.

And that is as true as it's unambitious to the core.

Complaining about framerates on a Pokemon game. 😂

I swear, some of you people want Pokemon to go the way of Sonic. You want GRIMDARK AND EDGY stuff so it can GET WITH THE TIMES, MAN.

Literally, these requests I keep seeing from people coincide exactly with how the Sonic franchise turned out with it's hilariously over-complicated plots. This quote from Zero Punctuation's Sonic Forces video says it best:

And while there's a lot of overlap between stuff for kids and stuff for adults these days, come the fuck on. Fuzzy animals fighting a mad scientist with the power of friendship? It's not Harry Potter; get your fucking dicks out of it. And just because you fucked up Sonic Boom doesn't mean you had to go, "Whoops! Guess rebooting things didn't help; time to put our dicks back in it!"

Point is: Pokemon's fine the way it is, and if you ask for it to be something it's not, you're make them spoil the franchise for the rest of us.
 

Dragoon

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
11,231
They're not ambitious. They are an amazing franchise, and I'm coping the 2019 version day 1 though.
 

Timbuktu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,233
Complaining about framerates on a Pokemon game. 😂

I swear, some of you people want Pokemon to go the way of Sonic. You want GRIMDARK AND EDGY stuff so it can GET WITH THE TIMES, MAN.

Literally, these requests I keep seeing from people coincide exactly with how the Sonic franchise turned out with it's hilariously over-complicated plots. This quote from Zero Punctuation's Sonic Forces video says it best:

Point is: Pokemon's fine the way it is, and if you ask for it to be something it's not, you're make them spoil the franchise for the rest of us.


The Detective Pikachu trailer has obviously shown people the light on how great it would be to have a fully voiced Pokemon with fur and photorealistic human characters walking around a slightly altered version of Shoreditch.
 
OP
OP
Aleh

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,295
Having at least 200 Pokémon in the game would be a good start.
I never tried to imply Let's Go is ambitious, but like any other series there are entries that are ambitious and entries who are smaller and less important and who don't affect one another.
Let's Go could have never existed and it would change nothing regarding next year's title.
 

Hero of Time

Member
Oct 25, 2017
446
The Ocarina of Time comparison is kinda funny, because I remember thinking 20 years ago "I can't wait until they release a Pokemon game that looks like Zelda Ocarina of Time!" (meaning, a fully 3D mainline console game)

I'm still waiting :( and I find that kinda insane.
 
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HypedBeast

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,058
Ive always felt like Pokemon has always kept their production vaules relatively low and gameplay changes minuscule so that when there is a slight bump in presentation, or they add one new mechanic for that generation, it seems impressive to their fanbase.

"Wow! With Z-Moves you now have a total of 5 Moves!" Great, now join every other JRPG since 1993.

Like these games arent bad, they are not bad at all. I enjoyed my time with Moon, but goddamn these games are derivative, and other games in its sub-genre of collect em all monster RPG's (SMT, Yokai Watch) are doing so much more with concept, it just makes Pokemon look old and antiquated in comparison.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Ive always felt like Pokemon has always kept their production vaules relatively low and gameplay changes minuscule so that when there is a slight bump in presentation, or they add one new mechanic for that generation, it seems impressive to their fanbase.

"Wow! With Z-Moves you now have a total of 5 Moves!" Great, now join every other JRPG since 1993.

Like these games arent bad, they are not bad at all. I enjoyed my time with Moon, but goddamn these games are derivative, and other games in its sub-genre of collect em all monster RPG's (SMT, Yokai Watch) are doing so much more with concept, it just makes Pokemon look old and antiquated in comparison.
"but who cares, Pokemon sells millions!" ad nauseam
 

zMiiChy-

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,881
Complaining about framerates on a Pokemon game. 😂

I swear, some of you people want Pokemon to go the way of Sonic. You want GRIMDARK AND EDGY stuff so it can GET WITH THE TIMES, MAN.

Literally, these requests I keep seeing from people coincide exactly with how the Sonic franchise turned out with it's hilariously over-complicated plots. This quote from Zero Punctuation's Sonic Forces video says it best:



Point is: Pokemon's fine the way it is, and if you ask for it to be something it's not, you're make them spoil the franchise for the rest of us.
Surprised-Pikachu.jpg
 

Deleted member 9714

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,882
Complaining about framerates on a Pokemon game. 😂

I swear, some of you people want Pokemon to go the way of Sonic. You want GRIMDARK AND EDGY stuff so it can GET WITH THE TIMES, MAN.

Literally, these requests I keep seeing from people coincide exactly with how the Sonic franchise turned out with it's hilariously over-complicated plots.

Point is: Pokemon's fine the way it is, and if you ask for it to be something it's not, you're make them spoil the franchise for the rest of us.
This is a downright awful post. We want the series to be what it once was. And frame rate is important. Maybe you don't actually play the games, but I do, and have spent hundreds of hours in double and triple battles. The performance in those is really not acceptable, especially in triples.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Complaining about framerates on a Pokemon game. 😂

I swear, some of you people want Pokemon to go the way of Sonic. You want GRIMDARK AND EDGY stuff so it can GET WITH THE TIMES, MAN.

Literally, these requests I keep seeing from people coincide exactly with how the Sonic franchise turned out with it's hilariously over-complicated plots. This quote from Zero Punctuation's Sonic Forces video says it best:



Point is: Pokemon's fine the way it is, and if you ask for it to be something it's not, you're make them spoil the franchise for the rest of us.

fHQoOpP.gif
 

convo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,365
Complaining about framerates on a Pokemon game. 😂

I swear, some of you people want Pokemon to go the way of Sonic. You want GRIMDARK AND EDGY stuff so it can GET WITH THE TIMES, MAN.
Nobody cares about grimdark sonic shit. You have a wild imagination to think technical soundness and being Shadow the hedgehog are directly tied together, Yokai Watch has a so much nicer presentation going for it so why does Pokemon struggle with too many pokemon on screen when they must have better resources at hand.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,002
It's kind of bizarre to see people arguing against better presentation and game design for the series.
 

convo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,365
It's kind of bizarre to see people arguing against better presentation and game design for the series.
12 year olds make these sort of excuses,when you are only aware of two things existing, the one thing you like and the one thing you don't, and everything else is a non-factor. All the bad is dumb sonic games and any complaint against the thing you do like.
 

seroun

Member
Oct 25, 2018
4,464
I don't think that Pokemon has a problem with graphics. I think the problems (for me) are more about how long the introduction feels (even in US/UM), how long do you need to know what systems can you play with and such. I think the user experience could be way more ambitious, same with the story (although I am not sure on this one since I don't completely understand the story of the last games). Graphically.. some are underwhelming, others are not.

But they have to improve in a lot of aspects, faster menu animations for example, a mode where there is less handholding at the beginning, better framerate (which they do suffer from). I liked the change of Let's Go and the wild encounters. I don't want an edgier story, I liked the direction of the last one I just think it needs to be explored a bit more and maybe try to differentiate the challenges even more. I liked them though.