Discussion in 'EtcetEra' started by UnpopularBlargh, Apr 18, 2018.
I watched all of the episodes in the current season and I swear to god it feels balanced politically. That one joke might be shitty and a jab, but there are plenty of instances where Roseanne comes of as totally reasonable progressive person. Doesn't feel like a trump show like some of you claim at all.
You cannot reconcile being a Trump support and being a liberal. Pretending that is possible is normalization of the horrendous views that Trump and Trump supporters actually have.
It's odd how Obama (along with Clinton) didn't support gay marriage for the majority of his political career, and was only forced to move up his support when Biden made a blunder in 2012, yet no one thought it was "problematic" to have pro Obama characters in TV shows.
Not that it matters.
I feel like alot of this shows' detractors greatly underestimate the country's need to allow working class white people to vent. They're experiencing alot of change, and they need space (including entertainment space) to express their displeasure at things- even if they eventually have to accept the change.
And that's not factoring that he voted against the repeal of DADT, and opposes nondiscriminatory hiring practices against gay people.
The gay community at large fucking loved Clinton in the 90s. Yes, even with DOMA. Yes, even with Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (which was an upgrade anyway over the previous standard). The cast of RENT performed at the 1996 DNC. Hillary was the first First Lady to march in Pride. Yes, it seems adorably quaint today, but you’re totally (and probably deliberately) missing the context about these people in an effort to score cheap points against liberals and set up a false equivalence.
Likewise with Obama, marriage equality was literally the last step he needed to take. He supported nondiscrimination laws. He supported civil unions, weak but better than what McCain or Bush were supporting at the time. He appointed two Supreme Court justices who voted to legalize gay marriage. He supported making LGBT a protected class under hate crimes. He supported liberalizing the military’s position on LGBT serving (and signed legislation for both of those things, even before his turnaround on marriage equality).
All in all, maybe you can understand why people were generally cool with Obama or the Clintons’ LGBT positions, even if they weren’t fully satisfied with them. Meanwhile Trump just fucking banned trans people from being in the military, and you don’t think Trump voters like the fictional Roseanne should have to reconcile that with the people in their lives who are targeted by something like that? What if Roseanne’s grandchild wants to go into the army? Sorry kiddo, the stupid man talked about jobs. We don’t even have to bring Pence into this if you don’t want to (but we should).
Quit fucking around with the semantics, you know exactly what that means.
Those seeking to change their sexual behavior" could mean any number of things, and implies someone going by their own free will. And it's a blurb on his campagin website from 18 years ago.
But clearly it means GAY CONVERSION CAMP.
Anyway, your attempts at a derail by making this somehow about the Democrats history with queer rights is the most played out tactic obviously straight people always try to pull and it's laughable. Every time, it's a joke.
And why exactly is "economic anxiety" a bullshit excuse for voting for Trump? Is it that out of the realm of possibility that people may have been struggling economically with a Democrat in office and wanted a change?
malignantly racist. They don't ever bitch about immigrants or government assistance going to brown people. They are, essentially, what this show purports to represent.
A few nights ago I watched an episode my mom was watching, (I think it was the second episode), and it didn't have any of these political comments or jabs at others, just felt like an older cast of the show. Maybe that episode didn't have any of that stuff and I just got lucky, but I thought to myself this show wouldn't be that bad if they did just what I saw.
Normalizing Trump supporters nowadays is normalizing bigotry, because it's not about the election promises anymore. It's about the actions we've seen take place and continue to take place. It's about continuing to support a racist bigot who has taken steps as POTUS that exhibit racism and bigotry. Saying "it's OK to still support Trump" is the same as saying "it's OK to still support a racist bigoted con-artist." The fact that the Trump supporting character continues to support Trump, is normalization of current Trump supporters. In order to adequately portray this issue, the character needs to face that cognitive dissonance head-on. How can she be gay-friendly and still support Trump? How can she love minorities and still support Trump?
Whether the show explicitly exhibits racist or homophobic views is irrelevant, because it's just as much about what the show DOESN'T address. To claim that politically opposed families have exhibited no stress over our current political climate is disingenuous. To hand-wave away the serious issues our country is going through is wreckless, and to disregard the serious questions of whether Trump is fit for office, claiming it's just fake news or liberal bias, is dangerous.
I also reject that the show hasn't addressed anything racist, coded as it may be.
And btw, the show doesn’t address politics at all anymore. Politics was in 3 scenes of 1 episode aired of 5.
You may deal in absolutes, but I do not. I did not vote for Trump, nor will I ever vote for him. However, as the president, I support him in that I want him, and therefore my country, to succeed and not go to hell. So according to you, that makes me a racist and a homophobe by proxy? Even though I’m gay? GTFO.
So they are damned if they do, damned if they don’t according to you? Well at least I know you are being rational.
For the hell of it I just watched an episode (I think it was the most recent one) where David comes back. They have really good writers on this show and a lot of great actors. I still can't get past the whole studio audience thing though. Canned laughter is like nails on a chalkboard.
I'm gonna watch that episode just to see how gross and MAGA it really is. The quote in the article sounds genuinely nuts.
Okay, I'm watching it, and I haven't seen anything like extremely reactionary yet but holy shit it's bad. The acting is uh extremely wooden and awkward. Roseanne is terrible, Jackie is terrible, even John Goodman, who is obviously quite a good actor, is terrible. It feels like a high school play.
There are a couple of okay jokes but nobody is capable of delivering them. This shit is so embarrassing.
Okay there's the joke. Yeah, idk.
Obviously the whole deal is racial / cultural / economic resentment. I don't remember much about the original run but the whole thesis of this reboot seems to be "the world is changing but nothing has gotten any better for me." They're poor, old, feeling ignored, and disrespected. Kids today are poor and coddled.
A lot of it is about the grandkids being shitty entitled brats. Which, like, of course it is.
"You're acting like you own the place, and we don't even own the place!"
I gotta say, it's not, like, explicitly right wing. But it definitely is about being working poor and feeling left behind by the world. Which is obviously a big part of the MAGA mindset, but it's also not the whole thing. There's also, like, actual white nationalism.
Also this episode ends with like an emotional dramatic scene and holy shit it's bad. Like embarrassingly terrible. I can't imagine it was this amateurish back in the 90s.
Anyway that was a waste of 22 minutes but it's not as reactionary as, say, Last Man Standing. At least not the episode I watched. It's more about being old and poor than about resenting minorities and LGBT people, which is what I was expecting.
Still, 0 out of 5 stars
That lame joke that has the freak out crowd all hot and bothered certainly seems like something LOADS of middle America would say and do.
I’m not white but when I was younger I also related to the show for many of those reasons.
Like I find it interesting with FoB - the real Huang took his father to the old restaurant, which has since become a Hooters. In the show the father really seems invested in his restaurant but in real life the father opened a steakhouse because he assumed white tourists wouldn't want to eat Chinese food. There was no love of steak - it was a calculated decision to try to make money. And when he retired, he obviously had no reservations about turning it over to Hooters to be converted to a Hooters restaurant. lol
Continuing to support Trump means she is toeing the company line, given everything that's happened already in his complete shit presidency...unless she enjoys more money going to the rich I guess, but that's definitely not of interest to her given her "economically anxious" family, no?
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't if they coast on "both sidsing" issues, which is why the entire premise is flawed.
And in regards to that quote, was it said or not? I'm assuming it was, considering it was a QUOTE. I'm not sure how that makes me a "piece of work," but if refusing to support both sides garbage meant to normalize this bullshit makes me a piece of work I'll glady take it with a badge of honor.
Lol, the ol' I hope the President succeeds so the country will. Shit only applies if his goal is the betterment of the country. Fuck your President.
I thought it was funny. I think they're overanalyzing a joke. Obviously each family has their own set of issues. That's part of the joke.
The Roseanne show comedy and subject matter is exactly the same as it was 20 years ago.
I don’t see why people are so worked up about it now.
I guess it’s the problem of social media?
Thank you, mods.
Let's keep things civil and try to refrain from making personal attacks, everyone. Thank you.
You don't have to want Trump to succeed. Applaud him when he does something actually good if you want. But wanting him to succeed means a lot of people will get discriminated again, or hurt or worse.