1. nenned

    nenned
    Member

    The post is soapbox, rhetorical nonsense with no basis in what is actually happening on the show. This one throwaway line cherry-picked from one episode that was intended to show that families no matter what race or creed can go through some difficulties in life is somehow going to normalize racism and homophobia. Where are the quotes of how Roseanne loves Gina (DJ's African American wife) or Mary (their mixed race daughter)? Or the mentions of how in the initial run, one of her best friends was gay and she even planned a gay wedding?
     
  2. NateSnacks

    NateSnacks
    Alt-Account Member

    I watched all of the episodes in the current season and I swear to god it feels balanced politically. That one joke might be shitty and a jab, but there are plenty of instances where Roseanne comes of as totally reasonable progressive person. Doesn't feel like a trump show like some of you claim at all.
     
  3. Ensorcell

    Ensorcell
    Member

    Those who have not seen it will never believe that. They only see a grand conspiracy to normalize Trump supporters. There is no talking them out of it.
     
  4. LGHT_TRSN

    LGHT_TRSN
    Member

    You don't understand why this is problematic? "I love minorities! I just voted for the bigoted racist who put another bigoted racist in charge of the justice department." "I love gay people! I just voted for the guy who chose a homophobe who believes in conversion therapy to be his VP."

    You cannot reconcile being a Trump support and being a liberal. Pretending that is possible is normalization of the horrendous views that Trump and Trump supporters actually have.
     
  5. nenned

    nenned
    Member

    Rosanne Conner had said she voted for Trump since he promised jobs at a time when they needed them and were in danger of losing their house. That's it. There has been no mention of race or LGBT rights as motivation for her vote at all. You are over reacting to and reaching way to hard at something you clearly have not watched.
     
  6. Klean

    Klean
    Banned Member

    • User Banned (Permanent): Trolling, thread derailment, arguing in bad faith, long history of infractions.
    It's odd how Obama (along with Clinton) didn't support gay marriage for the majority of his political career, and was only forced to move up his support when Biden made a blunder in 2012, yet no one thought it was "problematic" to have pro Obama characters in TV shows.
     
  7. NoName999

    NoName999
    Member

    Obama didn't have a guy who pushed for gay conversion camps running as his VP.
     
  8. Klean

    Klean
    Banned Member

    Pence has never pushed for, or even stated that he supports "gay conversion camps" (or shock therapy for that matter).

    Not that it matters.
     
  9. Red Cadet 015

    Red Cadet 015
    Banned Member

    I feel like alot of this shows' detractors greatly underestimate the country's need to allow working class white people to vent. They're experiencing alot of change, and they need space (including entertainment space) to express their displeasure at things- even if they eventually have to accept the change.
     
  10. NoName999

    NoName999
    Member

    Yeah, he just supported using federal money for gay conversion. What was that phrase? "Distinction without a difference"

    And that's not factoring that he voted against the repeal of DADT, and opposes nondiscriminatory hiring practices against gay people.

    And we all know that before Rosaenne, there was no sitcom starring working class white people.
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron
    Member

    Because Obama and the Clintons were generally pro-LGBT relative to their times.

    The gay community at large fucking loved Clinton in the 90s. Yes, even with DOMA. Yes, even with Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (which was an upgrade anyway over the previous standard). The cast of RENT performed at the 1996 DNC. Hillary was the first First Lady to march in Pride. Yes, it seems adorably quaint today, but you’re totally (and probably deliberately) missing the context about these people in an effort to score cheap points against liberals and set up a false equivalence.

    Likewise with Obama, marriage equality was literally the last step he needed to take. He supported nondiscrimination laws. He supported civil unions, weak but better than what McCain or Bush were supporting at the time. He appointed two Supreme Court justices who voted to legalize gay marriage. He supported making LGBT a protected class under hate crimes. He supported liberalizing the military’s position on LGBT serving (and signed legislation for both of those things, even before his turnaround on marriage equality).

    All in all, maybe you can understand why people were generally cool with Obama or the Clintons’ LGBT positions, even if they weren’t fully satisfied with them. Meanwhile Trump just fucking banned trans people from being in the military, and you don’t think Trump voters like the fictional Roseanne should have to reconcile that with the people in their lives who are targeted by something like that? What if Roseanne’s grandchild wants to go into the army? Sorry kiddo, the stupid man talked about jobs. We don’t even have to bring Pence into this if you don’t want to (but we should).
     
  12. Klean

    Klean
    Banned Member

    That might be your interpretation, but the words "gay" or "conversion" were never used, and have never been used in regards to Pence.
     
  13. Aaron

    Aaron
    Member

    “Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.”

    Quit fucking around with the semantics, you know exactly what that means.
     
  14. LGHT_TRSN

    LGHT_TRSN
    Member

    I don't need to watch it to know that "economic anxiety" as an excuse for voting Trump is bullshit. It's the easiest go-to for claiming a lack of bigotry that Trump supporters have, so it's no surprise that the show would express the same sentiment. It's also a complete BS excuse for Rosanne herself voting for Trump.
     
  15. Klean

    Klean
    Banned Member

    "Those seeking to change their sexual behavior" could mean any number of things, and implies someone going by their own free will. And it's a blurb on his campagin website from 18 years ago.

    But clearly it means GAY CONVERSION CAMP.
     
  16. This looks like a job for John Oliver
     
  17. stupei

    stupei
    Member

    God, you're right, he probably meant Tiger Woods.

    Anyway, your attempts at a derail by making this somehow about the Democrats history with queer rights is the most played out tactic obviously straight people always try to pull and it's laughable. Every time, it's a joke.
     
  18. nenned

    nenned
    Member

    Yes you do need to watch the show if you are going to accuse it of trying to normalize racist and homophonic views. Its a very ignorant statement to make without having watched the actual show or the quote you are using to make your argument.

    And why exactly is "economic anxiety" a bullshit excuse for voting for Trump? Is it that out of the realm of possibility that people may have been struggling economically with a Democrat in office and wanted a change?
     
  19. So they flock to a guy who bankrupted a casino?
     
  20. tuxfool

    tuxfool
    Member

    Haha..

    Because studies have shown that Clinton had the margin on handling economic issues with the middle class. Given that fact, one couldn't have voted for Trump if economic anxiety was the primary motivating factor.
     
  21. Klean

    Klean
    Banned Member

    Trump is pro LGBTQ so I don't need to defend him on anything.
     
  22. nenned

    nenned
    Member

    So since she had a "margin" on economic issues, that makes it impossible that someone would have voted for Trump for economic reasons? You realize that is ridiculous, right. You said yourself she had a margin. Unless she had 100%, then I guarantee you there were those who voted for Trump for economic reasons.
     
  23. BuddyDharma

    BuddyDharma
    Member

    Fuck yeah he held up a rainbow flag and everything!
     
  24. BuddyDharma

    BuddyDharma
    Member

    I need to ask my fiancee's parents why they voted Trump. They were lifelong working class Democrats who flipped to Trump in 2016. They have a trans daughter they accepted immediately, and while I can't say they aren't racist, they arent... malignantly racist. They don't ever bitch about immigrants or government assistance going to brown people. They are, essentially, what this show purports to represent.
     
  25. Bakercat

    Bakercat
    Member

    A few nights ago I watched an episode my mom was watching, (I think it was the second episode), and it didn't have any of these political comments or jabs at others, just felt like an older cast of the show. Maybe that episode didn't have any of that stuff and I just got lucky, but I thought to myself this show wouldn't be that bad if they did just what I saw.
     
  26. LGHT_TRSN

    LGHT_TRSN
    Member

    Ok, let's just say hypothetically someone voted for Trump because of economic anxiety. Does the show address those Trump voters current feelings about the administration over a year into his Presidency? Does the Trump support exhibit any sort of remorse for being bamboozled? Does the show address any of the disillusionment many real Trump supporters have faced since he became President?

    Normalizing Trump supporters nowadays is normalizing bigotry, because it's not about the election promises anymore. It's about the actions we've seen take place and continue to take place. It's about continuing to support a racist bigot who has taken steps as POTUS that exhibit racism and bigotry. Saying "it's OK to still support Trump" is the same as saying "it's OK to still support a racist bigoted con-artist." The fact that the Trump supporting character continues to support Trump, is normalization of current Trump supporters. In order to adequately portray this issue, the character needs to face that cognitive dissonance head-on. How can she be gay-friendly and still support Trump? How can she love minorities and still support Trump?

    Whether the show explicitly exhibits racist or homophobic views is irrelevant, because it's just as much about what the show DOESN'T address. To claim that politically opposed families have exhibited no stress over our current political climate is disingenuous. To hand-wave away the serious issues our country is going through is wreckless, and to disregard the serious questions of whether Trump is fit for office, claiming it's just fake news or liberal bias, is dangerous.

    I also reject that the show hasn't addressed anything racist, coded as it may be.
    is some straight up dog whistle shit.
     
  27. tuxfool

    tuxfool
    Member

    The issue here isn't that all trump supporters are malignantly racist. It is just that they just don't care enough, and are perfectly happy to sweep reprehensible behaviour under the rug. Likewise you saw another dimension on this when previous Obama voters, got angry the moment he mentioned Trayvon Martin.
     
  28. SugarNoodles

    SugarNoodles
    Member

    False neutrality is not the same as objectivity.
     
  29. Oligarchenemy

    Oligarchenemy
    Member

    The right is still trying with this after 2 attempts to ban trans people from the military, huh?
     
  30. nenned

    nenned
    Member

    Not explicitly. But the fact that they are in no better position than they were before the election would indicate there may be some remorse. They even had Jackie tell Roseanne she should admit that things have gotten worse since the election. In true stubborn-Roseanne fashion, she tells her “only in the fake news.” Again, you need to watch the context of the discussion. Roseanne and Jackie were having an argument and they were both antagonizing each other. It was Roseanne Conner’s way of saying “Yeah things have gotten worse, but I’m not going to admit it to you!”

    And btw, the show doesn’t address politics at all anymore. Politics was in 3 scenes of 1 episode aired of 5.


    Because maybe she has ideas of her own shaped by her own unique set of circumstances and experiences and so she doesn’t just toe the party line?

    You may deal in absolutes, but I do not. I did not vote for Trump, nor will I ever vote for him. However, as the president, I support him in that I want him, and therefore my country, to succeed and not go to hell. So according to you, that makes me a racist and a homophobe by proxy? Even though I’m gay? GTFO.


    So they are damned if they do, damned if they don’t according to you? Well at least I know you are being rational.


    So you are going to make this claim without even having watched the show? You really are some piece of work.
     
  31. Lord Brady

    Lord Brady
    Banned Member

    For the hell of it I just watched an episode (I think it was the most recent one) where David comes back. They have really good writers on this show and a lot of great actors. I still can't get past the whole studio audience thing though. Canned laughter is like nails on a chalkboard.
     
  32. dusteatingbug

    dusteatingbug
    Member

    I'm gonna watch that episode just to see how gross and MAGA it really is. The quote in the article sounds genuinely nuts.
     
  33. dusteatingbug

    dusteatingbug
    Member

    Okay, I'm watching it, and I haven't seen anything like extremely reactionary yet but holy shit it's bad. The acting is uh extremely wooden and awkward. Roseanne is terrible, Jackie is terrible, even John Goodman, who is obviously quite a good actor, is terrible. It feels like a high school play.

    There are a couple of okay jokes but nobody is capable of delivering them. This shit is so embarrassing.

    Okay there's the joke. Yeah, idk.

    Obviously the whole deal is racial / cultural / economic resentment. I don't remember much about the original run but the whole thesis of this reboot seems to be "the world is changing but nothing has gotten any better for me." They're poor, old, feeling ignored, and disrespected. Kids today are poor and coddled.

    A lot of it is about the grandkids being shitty entitled brats. Which, like, of course it is.

    "You're acting like you own the place, and we don't even own the place!"

    I gotta say, it's not, like, explicitly right wing. But it definitely is about being working poor and feeling left behind by the world. Which is obviously a big part of the MAGA mindset, but it's also not the whole thing. There's also, like, actual white nationalism.

    Also this episode ends with like an emotional dramatic scene and holy shit it's bad. Like embarrassingly terrible. I can't imagine it was this amateurish back in the 90s.

    Anyway that was a waste of 22 minutes but it's not as reactionary as, say, Last Man Standing. At least not the episode I watched. It's more about being old and poor than about resenting minorities and LGBT people, which is what I was expecting.

    Still, 0 out of 5 stars
     
  34. firehawk12

    firehawk12
    Member

    What all of this handwringing ignores is that, shock of shock, there are lower class people who aren't white. Or hell, there may be poor people who are also Democrats (who I don't think are on the left, but whatever). This is why I think a lot of this discussion is so limited, because it ignores the possibilities of intersectionality entirely.
     
  35. Deleted member 20296

    Deleted member 20296
    User requested account closure Member

    I haven’t seen it because I don’t like Roseanne, but She always gave me a strong impression of being a fairly realistic picture of a part of America (an annoying part)

    That lame joke that has the freak out crowd all hot and bothered certainly seems like something LOADS of middle America would say and do.
     
  36. Clix

    Clix
    Banned Member

    That’s the thing, though. As a non white person, I feel comfortable saying that we do on many levels. Race and ethnicity, yes, it can be different. But at its core, lower class and lower middle class families do go through so many of the same struggles. And that’s what's irritatates about it so much with what’s going on the country today, because we are more alike than different, and while bigotry will never cease to exist, until the issue of class improves, everything else won’t inprove.

    I’m not white but when I was younger I also related to the show for many of those reasons.
     
  37. Doof

    Doof
    Member

    You're right about lower class families struggling in similar ways regardless of race, but my point was that non-white families struggle in additional ways that white families don't (being shot by police, turned down for jobs, that kind of thing). I probably could have worded my post better.
     
  38. firehawk12

    firehawk12
    Member

    Sure, but until someone makes a show about being poor and <insert race/ethnicity here>, there isn't really an option.

    Like I find it interesting with FoB - the real Huang took his father to the old restaurant, which has since become a Hooters. In the show the father really seems invested in his restaurant but in real life the father opened a steakhouse because he assumed white tourists wouldn't want to eat Chinese food. There was no love of steak - it was a calculated decision to try to make money. And when he retired, he obviously had no reservations about turning it over to Hooters to be converted to a Hooters restaurant. lol
     
  39. NateSnacks

    NateSnacks
    Alt-Account Member

    Roseanne best friend is literally a liberal blue collar lesbian.
     
  40. Shauni

    Shauni
    Banned Member

    It doesn't matter if it's mentioned. She still voted for all that, too.
     
  41. LGHT_TRSN

    LGHT_TRSN
    Member

    Trump succeeding in his goals means the country goes to hell. That IS his goal.

    Continuing to support Trump means she is toeing the company line, given everything that's happened already in his complete shit presidency...unless she enjoys more money going to the rich I guess, but that's definitely not of interest to her given her "economically anxious" family, no?

    They are damned if they do and damned if they don't if they coast on "both sidsing" issues, which is why the entire premise is flawed.

    And in regards to that quote, was it said or not? I'm assuming it was, considering it was a QUOTE. I'm not sure how that makes me a "piece of work," but if refusing to support both sides garbage meant to normalize this bullshit makes me a piece of work I'll glady take it with a badge of honor.
     
  42. Shauni

    Shauni
    Banned Member

    Lol, the ol' I hope the President succeeds so the country will. Shit only applies if his goal is the betterment of the country. Fuck your President.
     
  43. SillyGoose

    SillyGoose
    Member

    I thought it was funny. I think they're overanalyzing a joke. Obviously each family has their own set of issues. That's part of the joke.
     
  44. phantomx

    phantomx
    Banned Member

    The Roseanne show comedy and subject matter is exactly the same as it was 20 years ago.

    I don’t see why people are so worked up about it now.

    I guess it’s the problem of social media?
     
  45. Psykodoughboy

    Psykodoughboy
    Member

    I have a black friend
     
  46. nenned

    nenned
    Member

    Yes, a man spent millions of dollars to ruin the country that made him millions of dollars. You are completely delusional.

    Again, you are arguing from a point of ignorance as you have never watched the show. The character Roseanne Conner has never expressed any benefit or even vindication for voting for "him." She even admits that in some aspects (i.e. health care), things have gotten worse.

    What premise? This isn't a political show. Its a sitcom about a blue collar family trying to make ends meet. In one episode, the topic of politics came up and because of that its somehow being spun as a political commentary trying to trivialize racial and LGBT issues. Its really quite... well... sad.

    Yes, it was a quote. If you are going to use this quote to vilify this show, you should actually know whether or not it was actually said and in what context before you make that claim. I called you a "piece of work" because you are ignorant for rejecting the claim that nothing racist was said when you haven't even seen the episode. If you are proud of your ignorant badge, good, you've earned it.

    So even though her character has been pro LGBT and pro racial equality in both the show's initial run and the reboot, the character is racist and a homophobe simple because she voted for Trump? So according to you, that makes all African Americans who voted for Trump racist, and all LGBT individuals who voted for him homophobes. Nice
     
  47. SugarNoodles

    SugarNoodles
    Member

    Not sure what your point is.
     
  48. FeistyBoots

    FeistyBoots
    Member

    Ahhhhhh

    Thank you, mods.
     
  49. Brazil

    Brazil
    (tofubeats Remix) Moderator

    Let's keep things civil and try to refrain from making personal attacks, everyone. Thank you.
     
  50. Helio

    Helio
    Member

    You don't have to want Trump to succeed because he supports bad shit. You want Trump to succeed in banning trans people from the military. You want Trump to succeed in siphoning money from the poor and middle class and give it to the rich and businesses. You want Trump to succeed in making the DOJ racist since he appointed a racist elf to it. You want Trump to succeed in destroying the environment because he appointed someone who wants to completely dismantle it. You want Trump to succeed in taking away people's healthcare.

    You don't have to want Trump to succeed. Applaud him when he does something actually good if you want. But wanting him to succeed means a lot of people will get discriminated again, or hurt or worse.