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Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,222
Okay, I'm watching it, and I haven't seen anything like extremely reactionary yet but holy shit it's bad. The acting is uh extremely wooden and awkward. Roseanne is terrible, Jackie is terrible, even John Goodman, who is obviously quite a good actor, is terrible. It feels like a high school play.

There are a couple of okay jokes but nobody is capable of delivering them. This shit is so embarrassing.

That was the second episode produced so everybody was still stiff. Of the original cast, only Laurie Metcalf and Johnny Galecki have continued to do sitcoms, so they have to get back into the hang of things. And then Laurie Metcalf is doing the Barney Fife interpretation of her character which has always been divisive even amongst fans.

Everybody was natural in the latest episode, even Roseanne who has always been the weak link.
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
Because studies have shown that Clinton had the margin on handling economic issues with the middle class. Given that fact, one couldn't have voted for Trump if economic anxiety was the primary motivating factor.
This is not how numbers, statistics, voting, or humans work. You know that, right?

For the hell of it I just watched an episode (I think it was the most recent one) where David comes back. They have really good writers on this show and a lot of great actors. I still can't get past the whole studio audience thing though. Canned laughter is like nails on a chalkboard.
Was it a studio audience or was it canned laughter?
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
You don't have to want Trump to succeed because he supports bad shit. You want Trump to succeed in banning trans people from the military. You want Trump to succeed in siphoning money from the poor and middle class and give it to the rich and businesses. You want Trump to succeed in making the DOJ racist since he appointed a racist elf to it. You want Trump to succeed in destroying the environment because he appointed someone who wants to completely dismantle it. You want Trump to succeed in taking away people's healthcare.

You don't have to want Trump to succeed. Applaud him when he does something actually good if you want. But wanting him to succeed means a lot of people will get discriminated again, or hurt or worse.

I already stated that I didn't, nor would I ever, vote for Trump. I said that I don't want the country to go to hell now that he is in office. That would require some level of success on his part, would it not? And that "level of success" can be done without the things you have mentioned. Things like keeping us out of war, building a better infrastructure, not siphoning money from education, and gun control among other things.
 

jb1234

Very low key
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,222
That was the second episode produced so everybody was still stiff. Of the original cast, only Laurie Metcalf and Johnny Galecki have continued to do sitcoms, so they have to get back into the hang of things. And then Laurie Metcalf is doing the Barney Fife interpretation of her character which has always been divisive even amongst fans.

Everybody was natural in the latest episode, even Roseanne who has always been the weak link.

I think the acting has gotten better (for the most part) but the writing remains sub-par. The show isn't nearly as clever (or funny) as it used to be and often feels like it's going through the motions.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
I already stated that I didn't, nor would I ever, vote for Trump. I said that I don't want the country to go to hell now that he is in office. That would require some level of success on his part, would it not? And that "level of success" can be done without the things you have mentioned. Things like keeping us out of war, building a better infrastructure, not siphoning money from education, and gun control among other things.
Did I say that you voted or would vote for Trump? I don't want the country to go to hell with him in office and that means deterring his efforts to make it that way with the help of the GOP.

Just because Trump is president doesn't mean that you have to want him to succeed. Again, him succeeding means a lot of people will be discriminated against, hurt, or worse. Trump succeeding means that we could go to war in Syria. Trump succeeding means that our economy gets fucked up because he wants to raise tariffs on products from China. Trump succeeding means that Puerto Rico doesn't get the help it needs.

Hope for the success of those goals you mentioned and hope that Trump accomplish those. But don't want him success in general because he has a lot of shitty ideas. And honestly, he most likely won't accomplish what you want because he only gives lip service to shit like that. Like for gun control, at one point he seems to want reform regarding it, but then someone talks to him and he changes his mind. It's hard to want him to succeed when he's so fair weather like that.
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
Did I say that you voted or would vote for Trump? I don't want the country to go to hell with him in office and that means deterring his efforts to make it that way with the help of the GOP.

Just because Trump is president doesn't mean that you have to want him to succeed. Again, him succeeding means a lot of people will be discriminated against, hurt, or worse. Trump succeeding means that we could go to war in Syria. Trump succeeding means that our economy gets fucked up because he wants to raise tariffs on products from China. Trump succeeding means that Puerto Rico doesn't get the help it needs.

Hope for the success of those goals you mentioned and hope that Trump accomplish those. But don't want him success in general because he has a lot of shitty ideas. And honestly, he most likely won't accomplish what you want because he only gives lip service to shit like that.

I think we are making the same point, just expressing it differently. Either way, it's somewhat off topic as the discussion was about Roseanne's meaning behind the quote in the OP. But I'm glad we understand each other better, at least.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
I think we are making the same point, just expressing it differently.
Not in the least because you think Trump needs to be successful in order for the country to not go to hell but that doesn't follow. I'm giving you examples of what Trump wants that are clear detriments and if Trump is successful in these examples people will be hurt.

But I think I made my point. This'll be it.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
So even though her character has been pro LGBT and pro racial equality in both the show's initial run and the reboot, the character is racist and a homophobe simple because she voted for Trump? So according to you, that makes all African Americans who voted for Trump racist, and all LGBT individuals who voted for him homophobes. Nice

Funny how you shit on people for only looking at absolutes and then instantly jump to the most extreme possibly of what someone said.

I didn't say that, but this a fact that they voted for those policies. This is just your attempt to deflect that and absolve people of responsibility
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
You yourself just said the Conners voted for those policies since they voted Trump. Therefore, Afriacan Americans and LGBT people who voted for Trump, by your own argument, also voted for these policies. So does that make them racists and homophobes as well or not? I don't think it does, but it would seem you do going by your criteria of vote for Trump = vote for all his policies.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
You yourself just said the Conners voted for those policies since they voted Trump. Therefore, Afriacan Americans and LGBT people who voted for Trump, by your own argument, also voted for these policies. So does that make them racists and homophobes or not?

That makes them complicit in supporting those policies. You can take from that what you will. You take it as me calling them racists and homophobes to try and deflect the argument instead of addressing the point something you have dodged through this thread
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Funny how you shit on people for only looking at absolutes and then instantly jump to the most extreme possibly of what someone said.

I didn't say that, but this a fact that they voted for those policies. This is just your attempt to deflect that and absolve people of responsibility
Yup. When Roseanne decided to vote for Trump, she stopped caring about the groups of people who will be hurt under the Trump presidency with a GOP controlled congress. Trump employed white supremacists as president and it wasn't some cryptofascist hiding behind a podcast. It's fucking Bannon and Miller and Bannon was all about Trump during the campaign, too, so it's not like it got sprung on everyone.

People voted for that. Roseanne voted for that. She might've had blinders on much like the others who were only worried about jobs, but ignorance doesn't absolve therm or her.
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
That makes them complicit in supporting those policies. You can take from that what you will. You take it as me calling them racists and homophobes to try and deflect the argument instead of addressing the point something you have dodged through this thread
what point is that?

People voted for that. Roseanne voted for that. She might've had blinders on much like the others who were only worried about jobs, but ignorance doesn't absolve therm or her.

But that doesn't make her a racist or a homophobe, something people on this thread have accused her of being just for having voted for Trump.
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
You yourself just said the Conners voted for those policies since they voted Trump. Therefore, Afriacan Americans and LGBT people who voted for Trump, by your own argument, also voted for these policies. So does that make them racists and homophobes as well or not? I don't think it does, but it would seem you do going by your criteria of vote for Trump = vote for all his policies.
Maybe it does, maybe it doesnt. The point is that anyone who voted for Trump is an absolute selfish scumbag who furthered the marginalization of minorities in America.
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
You know what. I'm done. People here are speaking with authority on things they admit they have not even seen. There is no rationalizing with most of you so I'm done trying. I stand by my original comment that that quote in the OP was not meant to normalize Trump or to trivialize the struggles of African Americans, Asians, or LGBT people.
 
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Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
But that doesn't make her a racist or a homophobe, something people on this thread have accused her of being just for having voted for Trump.

Ehhh... not overtly, however she and others who have voted for Trump are helping to put up systemic and subtle barriers that prevent minorities from being as free as hetero whites. She's complicit. As such, Roseanne and others who voted for Trump might not be actively bigots or for bigotry, but they're not opposing it either.

BTW, out of curiosity, why didn't you vote for Trump?

EDIT: Oh, he bounced
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
I'm still here. I'm just not going to go round and round with no one convincing the other. But I'll answer your question. I voted Clinton since I agreed with most of her views Vs Trump. I don't toe any party line so I research each candidate and vote who I believe will best represent my interests. I thought she would be a better leader. I still do. That said, it's past midnight here and I'm going to bed, lol. Zzz
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
Canned laughter is a recording of a studio audience.
I wouldn't refer to a live studio audience as "canned laughter" - that would be when they use pre-recorded laughter (maybe from another studio audience) and overlay it when jokes happen to simulate a live audience.
I don't know what's happening here, though, that's why I asked. Doesn't really matter though :)

edit: damn, a lot of #teamJackie in here
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728

That they are supporting these policies by supporting canidates who represent them

That doesn't make her a racist or a homophobe, something people on this thread have accused her of being just for having voted for Trump.

If you support policies that are rascit and homophobic what difference does it make if you are or not? And, maybe even more importantly, why are you fighting so hard to defend that?
 

Scarecrow

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,505
Show says it's taped with a live audience. I've always wondered how that works nowadays with different locations, scenes and such.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,222
Show says it's taped with a live audience. I've always wondered how that works nowadays with different locations, scenes and such.
If they go outside they have the audience watch a playback.

Roseanne has always been sets though, and like 90% of the season has been the main set so far. They're practically bottle episodes.
 

Polaroid_64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
People worried about Roseanne being called a racist when she supports racist policies.

Call her whatever you want.
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
That they are supporting these policies by supporting canidates who represent them



If you support policies that are rascit and homophobic what difference does it make if you are or not? And, maybe even more importantly, why are you fighting so hard to defend that?

Except she doesn't support them. Very explicitly she doesn't support them. I'm only defending the quote, nothing more. Of course I don't condone racist or homophobic actions or policies. My argument is that the quote does not try to trivialize the struggles of African Americans and Asians, nor does it make Roseanne Conner a racist.
 
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Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,439
Last episode was great. Darlene is MVP of this new season

The more the show delves into the family drama and hardships and strays away from Roseanne's political views (or in the case of this article, jokes that feel uncomfortably like her shitty opinions shining through) the better off it is
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
Except she doesn't support them. Very explicitly she doesn't support them. I'm only defending the quote, nothing more. Of course I don't condone racist or homophobic actions or policies. My argument is that the quote does not try to trivialize the struggles of African Americans and Asians, nor does it make Roseanne Conner a racist.

Politics is not fast food, you can't just swap out what you want to support and what you don't. Trump was very explicit in his rascist ideas and policies, his VP is vehemently anti-LGBT. You vote for that, you support that. Actions matter more than worlds.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
Politics is not fast food, you can't just swap out what you want to support and what you don't. Trump was very explicit in his rascist ideas and policies, his VP is vehemently anti-LGBT. You vote for that, you support that. Actions matter more than worlds.


Trump voters and supportes can agree with some aspects of a presidency and not others. You could have voted for Trump because you agreed with some of his views while disagreeing with others. There is no Trump collective mind.

But you are right, actions do speak louder than words. So lets take a look at Roseanne Conner in action. In this scene from an episode from the show's initial run, she uses the same "They're just like us" line to describe African Americans, except this time she expands upon it. Some backstory: DJ was to be in a play, but pulled out when he didn't want to kiss a girl. Roseanne later learned that the reason DJ did not want to kiss the girl is that she is African American. Here is Roseanne Conner confronting DJ about it (Note: DJ does not know that Roseanne knows why he won't kiss the girl).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MIk87pzPQM
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,252
Trump voters and supportes can agree with some aspects of a presidency and not others. You could have voted for Trump because you agreed with some of his views while disagreeing with others. There is no Trump collective mind.
Even if you only liked one Trump campaign promise, voting for him is endorsing every heinous thing he does. His evil acts and legislation are happening because of you. Do you think those who only supported Hitler for his public parks policy(just made this up to make a point) get off morally scott-free for ignoring everything else he did?
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
Even if you only liked one Trump campaign promise, voting for him is endorsing every heinous thing he does. His evil acts and legislation are happening because of you. Do you think those who only supported Hitler for his public parks policy(just made this up to make a point) get off morally scott-free for ignoring everything else he did?

Trump isn't Hitler, can we stop with this?
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
Trump voters and supportes can agree with some aspects of a presidency and not others. You could have voted for Trump because you agreed with some of his views while disagreeing with others. There is no Trump collective mind.

There's a problem with this, and that there is no good views from Donald Trump.

But you are right, actions do speak louder than words. So lets take a look at Roseanne Conner in action. In this scene from an episode from the show's initial run, she uses the same "They're just like us" line to describe African Americans, except this time she expands upon it. Some backstory: DJ was to be in a play, but pulled out when he didn't want to kiss a girl. Roseanne later learned that the reason DJ did not want to kiss the girl is that she is African American. Here is Roseanne Conner confronting DJ about it (Note: DJ does not know that Roseanne knows why he won't kiss the girl).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MIk87pzPQM

Cool. Doesn't have anything to do with this conversation, but cool
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
There's a problem with this, and that there is no good views from Donald Trump.



Cool. Doesn't have anything to do with this conversation, but cool

1) Maybe to you, but you don't get to speak for all of America. He actually said some progressive things about gun control.

2) It has everything to do with this conversation. This conversation is about a quote from a recent episode and how some journalist said it was Roseanne trying to trivialize black and Asian struggles. My opinion is that it doesn't, that the Roseanne Conner character has never been a racist both in actions and in words.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,252
1) Maybe to you, but you don't get to speak for all of America. He actually said some progressive things about gun control..
You mean before the NRA bought him out again? That was a refreshing 10 minutes.

How about supporting actually progressive politicians who aren't going to change their minds when the swamp sends dollars their way like our POS pres does
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
Trump is only not Hitler because be doesn't have the power to be. But he's a fascist, and vehemently hateful towards anyone non-white. There's no reason to think if he had the ability he wouldn't be another Hitler or Hitler type

So you are saying Trump would commit genocide if he could? You know, I'm not going to continue this with you anymore. You are completely off-base and irrational.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,252
So you are saying Trump would commit genocide is he could? You know, I'm not going to continue this with you anymore. You are completely off-base and irrational.
Given the right people and the right circumstances, absolutely. He made some off-hand comment just the other week about bombing terrorist suspect's home villages/families in true war criminal fashion.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
So you are saying Trump would commit genocide if he could? You know, I'm not going to continue this with you anymore. You are completely off-base and irrational.

Yeah, easily. He has no respect for human life and has already talked about things like making registry for Muslims as well as the elimination of due process. Unleashed, he'd easily be one of history's most wicked monsters, well, more so than he is now.

1) Maybe to you, but you don't get to speak for all of America. He actually said some progressive things about gun control.

No, he never has, not really.

2) It has everything to do with this conversation. This conversation is about a quote from a recent episode and how some journalist said it was Roseanne trying to trivialize black and Asian struggles. My opinion is that it doesn't, that the Roseanne Conner character has never been a racist both in actions and in words.

Voting and supprorting a known racist with racist policies go further in affecting millions of people than telling her son black peole are okay.
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,331
I wish it was a conspiracy, it would make this all more entertaining. I'm Canadian. I'm appalled that Americans voted in Trump. Trump's America is all sorts of terrifying. I wouldn't be watching this show if it was a soap box for selling Trump's America. Some bloggers had already decided it was a MAGA show before they saw a trailer, and they're too far gone and committed to the story they were interested in telling to judge the show accurately. People don't need to watch the show, if they don't want to support Roseanne Barr the Person, but if people want to talk shit about the show, they should probably give it an honest watch first to see if it's even worth getting riled up about. And it isn't. Lol
I actually have to agree with this. The show isn't very good but it's bit MAGA the show. The writing staff has people like Norm Macdonald and Wanda Sykes. Their grandson dresses like a girl and they directly speak about that at length. The character of rosanne does seem regressive but she's basically getting berated in every episode for her views and being behind the times.

Again, not defending the show but Chance Owen here has it right. Most of these criticisms are people latching on who haven't even watched the show.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
I actually have to agree with this. The show isn't very good but it's bit MAGA the show. The writing staff has people like Norm Macdonald and Wanda Sykes. Their grandson dresses like a girl and they directly speak about that at length. The character of rosanne does seem regressive but she's basically getting berated in every episode for her views and being behind the times.

Again, not defending the show but Chance Owen here has it right. Most of these criticisms are people latching on who haven't even watched the show.

This is totally untrue. Roseanne comes out on top in every episode so far, as she has the vast majority of the time
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
You're also vehemently defending it's okay to support Trump, since you can support racism, homophobes and fascism and apparently have no responsibility for some reason you can't explain

When I say "support Trump," I don't mean "Go racist, homophobic, and fascist views!" I mean "please don't make the country go to hell."
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,331
Problem with Roseanne is it perpetuates the mythical "I'm not a bigot, I just vote for them" Republican.

Her character in the show is 100% unapologetic about who she voted for. It would have been one thing to have her know she got scammed but the man and just leave it at that. But it's not the angle they have taken.

Where is Darleene asking her mother "How can you say you have no problems with who my son chooses to be, yet happily support a man who pushes an agenda that demonizes him?"

Where's the scene with DJ asking why his mother happily supports a man with an agenda of hate against people like his daughter just because of their skin color?

The show is trying to push the fiction that Roseanne totally has nothing against people like this, she's just happy as fuck to support the agendas of people who do.

Hell, it's too bad they didn't make DJ's biracial child a guy. They could have done a big blue lives matter episodes where Roseanne explains to her grandson that the cops are right to shoot people that look like him.
People voting for party and not realizing what that actually means seems like a pretty normal thing, unfortunately. Some people simply don't get the consequences of their actions when it comes to things like voting.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,252
When I say "support Trump," I don't mean "Go racist, homophobic, and fascist views!" I mean "please don't make the country go to hell."
White anxiety = hell? lol

You need just a bit more empathy and self reflection if you ever want to truly understand this country or this world.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,252
And you need to be a little less condescending. You don't truly understand this country or world either. No one does.
If the country has descended into any sort of hell, its an economic and racial hell constructed by the demonic donor class. It's so sad that you don't see how Trump is the culmination of this.

What exactly are the factors of your version of USA-hell? I'm genuinely interested.
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
If the country has descended into any sort of hell, its an economic and racial hell constructed by the demonic donor class. It's so sad that you don't see how Trump is the culmination of this.

What exactly are the factors of your version of USA-hell? I'm genuinely interested.

Its not relevant to this topic and this topic has already veered way of course so lets just agree to disagree.