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Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,290
Houston, TX
So what is the excuse for Capcom's piss poor roster selection?
That's on Capcom. I'm not absolving Capcom of any & all blame, but Marvel didn't exactly help matters.

It kills me but let it die.
+1 on Capcom all stars! No more bs, no more excuses.
Unless Capcom goes the Killer Instinct route, Capcom kinda needs a bigger property like Marvel to sell big. In a dream scenario, the perfect Capcom All-Stars would only have a fraction of the sales potential of the perfect MvC4 (even if they lean heavily on the Big 5).
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887
Unless Capcom goes the Killer Instinct route, Capcom kinda needs a bigger property like Marvel to sell big. In a dream scenario, the perfect Capcom All-Stars would only have a fraction of the sales potential of the perfect MvC4 (even if they lean heavily on the Big 5).
Why do they need to sell big? Purely in terms of IP, Capcom All-Stars would have a larger reach than a Street Fighter game. The reason they'd need to sell tremendously with MvC is because of the license, and whatever publishing deal they have going on behind the scenes which would naturally require Capcom to give a significant portion of the revenue to Marvel.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,290
Houston, TX
Why do they need to sell big? Purely in terms of IP, Capcom All-Stars would have a larger reach than a Street Fighter game. The reason they'd need to sell tremendously with MvC is because of the license, and whatever publishing deal they have going on behind the scenes which would naturally require Capcom to give a significant portion of the revenue to Marvel.
The reach wouldn't be that much bigger, though. It'd probably sell anywhere between Mega Man & UMvC3 numbers in the first few months, hence me agreeing with Max's idea to treat Capcom All-Stars like Killer Instinct.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887
The reach wouldn't be that much bigger, though. It'd probably sell anywhere between Mega Man & UMvC3 numbers in the first few months, hence me agreeing with Max's idea to treat Capcom All-Stars like Killer Instinct.
"Not that much bigger" is all it would need if all of the profit would go to Capcom instead of having to give up a noticeable percentage of their gains to Marvel. Not to mention all the restrictions they would need to navigate in terms of development, marketing, tournaments, etc. they'd have just like they did with MvC:I.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,290
Houston, TX
"Not that much bigger" is all it would need if all of the profit would go to Capcom instead of having to give up a noticeable percentage of their gains to Marvel. Not to mention all the restrictions they would need to navigate in terms of development, marketing, tournaments, etc. they'd have just like they did with MvC:I.
While you do have a point about the potential profits & fewer rights issues, I'm mainly speaking on the perfect scenario for both hypothetical games. In this scenario, an MvC4 would sell obscenely more than Capcom All-Stars. Though as per your point, the amount of profit that Capcom would see would only be marginally higher for a 3+ million-selling MvC4 compared to a ~1 million-selling Capcom All-Stars.
 

Maximum Spider

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,967
Cleveland, OH
I'd want a Capcom All-Stars game to be a four-player arena fighter. Like a slightly more technical Power Stone. Capcom has made more than enough 2D/2.5D games for my lifetime. I'd like to see them do something that doesn't just cater to their fighting game characters. It could be their version of Smash Bros. without t being a clone of that game and a retread of past works.
 

Doctrine Dark

Member
Nov 13, 2017
2,434
I loved MVC2's OST.

But MVC3's OST was fantastic. Way better imho.

I have a feeling MVC4 is being developed. The way MVCI ended so abruptly just doesn't sit well with me. I wouldn't be opposed to a Capcom Vs Capcom crossover, though. Anything to get my hyper fighter cravings sated. MVC3 always seemed like a game they had fun designing, whereas MVCI felt empty...like they just put it together and didn't care. I want that fun, vibrant, colorful approach the series is known for to return.
 

Allyougame

Member
Oct 25, 2017
839
Marvel vs. Capcom is my all-time favorite fighting game franchise, but I'm not expecting a new Marvel vs. Capcom any time soon.

Why would there be? Why would Marvel, on top of the entertainment world right now, contact Capcom of all developers/publishers to make a new fighting game? They wouldn't.

If Marvel wanted to make a new fighting game, they would look at NetherRealm, Bandai Namco, or Arc System Works, among other potential options - instead of a publisher/developer that has been clueless and inept at fighting games this generation. A publisher/developer that just worked with the Marvel license and failed with Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite, potentially making the franchise radioactive for the time being.

The past means little, especially with Marvel/Disney now picking their shots. Spider-man (2018) wasn't published by Activision and developed by Beenox, Marvel worked out a deal with Sony and Insomniac respectively to make the most of the opportunity. Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3: The Black Order will be published by Nintendo and developed by Team Ninja. The Square Enix Avengers game, well who knows about that.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,290
Houston, TX
Marvel vs. Capcom is my all-time favorite fighting game franchise, but I'm not expecting a new Marvel vs. Capcom any time soon.

Why would there be? Why would Marvel, on top of the entertainment world right now, contact Capcom of all developers/publishers to make a new fighting game? They wouldn't.

If Marvel wanted to make a new fighting game, they would look at NetherRealm, Bandai Namco, or Arc System Works, among other potential options - instead of a publisher/developer that has been clueless and inept at fighting games this generation. A publisher/developer that just worked with the Marvel license and failed with Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite, potentially making the franchise radioactive for the time being.

The past means little, especially with Marvel/Disney now picking their shots. Spider-man (2018) wasn't published by Activision and developed by Beenox, Marvel worked out a deal with Sony and Insomniac respectively to make the most of the opportunity. Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3: The Black Order will be published by Nintendo and developed by Team Ninja. The Square Enix Avengers game, well who knows about that.
Considering how Marvel seemingly wanted a more realistic art style for MvCI, I'm not sure Arc System Works would be able to pull off something that Marvel would want these days (that plus ASW kinda has their hands full right now). And the fact that Ed Boon openly mentioned talking to Marvel about a Marvel vs. DC game (which would imply that the talks didn't result in a new project) likely takes NRS off the table as well.
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,845
Miami, FL
I think Capcom and the FGC would be best served by a direct sequel to Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. That should be the jumping off-point in regards to literally everything: roster, visual style, and story/character treatment.

I think that roster choices should be comprised of mostly favorite characters with only a couple oddball characters. The general audience - and the FGC - want to see X-Men and popular Marvel heroes alongside the cooler Capcom characters. And I think the comic stylings are a no-brainer. Comic book visuals will make the characters and the game as a whole look appealing and age well. As for the music, the series is better served by its 90's tunes than the jazzy music in MvC2. Those MvC2 tunes were great but they got old real fast so every modded them out.

And I think they shouldn't waste resources on a story mode. Instead they should make Arcade Mode with proper intros and outros and other single player content for the more casual players to enjoy. They can't go wrong doing all of what I've listed above.
 

Doctrine Dark

Member
Nov 13, 2017
2,434
I feel like Story Mode is a standard now. The only games that seem to have a Story Mode that's akin to Arcade Mode is KOF14 and the upcoming Samurai Shodown. Just about every other fighting game has one. I also believe Marvel would more than likely push for a Story Mode over not having one at all.

I didn't dislike MVCI's story like many others did, but the Arcade Mode was pretty dry. I like the idea of a quality Arcade Mode, but having it alongside a good Story Mode would make it that much better. Definitely need more fun stuff for the casuals, too.
 

Radamammuth

Member
Dec 8, 2017
870
I just don't follow the idea that a new game needs Marvel to sell. Also don't get the people that like story mode.. like why??? I mean MK is one thing and Injustice is just DC it's not the same with a crazy mesh of Capcom and Marvel. The story will always feel trash and forced. But if that sells they are better off making a full Capcom or a just a Marvel game.
 

Deleted member 5148

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,108
To be honest jaw, I believe the reason why people back in the dreamcast era were so forgiving was because mvc2 had 50 characters. and they looked past the music and stages. I remember being disappointed by all that. even back then.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,290
Houston, TX
I just don't follow the idea that a new game needs Marvel to sell. Also don't get the people that like story mode.. like why??? I mean MK is one thing and Injustice is just DC it's not the same with a crazy mesh of Capcom and Marvel. The story will always feel trash and forced. But if that sells they are better off making a full Capcom or a just a Marvel game.
I'm not saying it HAS to be Marvel. But Capcom alone wouldn't sell as well as a crossover with another big company (Ex: Nintendo). Sure, there's the Capcom Big 5, but most of their other IPs outside of said 5 mostly faded into obscurity (with a few exceptions, like Ace Attorney). That's why I'm referring to Max's solution of starting with a smaller $20-30 game & growing from there.

Unless Capcom makes an effort to revive & maintain more of their IPs outside of the Big 5, a Capcom All-Stars with the same effort as Street Fighter or MvC (best-case scenario) wouldn't end well with regards to sales.
 

oofouchugh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,966
Night City
The next MvC game needs to just be Capcom hyper fighting and drop Marvel completely because working with Disney will forever prevent a well made long supported MvC game from ever happening.
 

Radamammuth

Member
Dec 8, 2017
870
I'm not saying it HAS to be Marvel. But Capcom alone wouldn't sell as well as a crossover with another big company (Ex: Nintendo). Sure, there's the Capcom Big 5, but most of their other IPs outside of said 5 mostly faded into obscurity (with a few exceptions, like Ace Attorney). That's why I'm referring to Max's solution of starting with a smaller $20-30 game & growing from there.

Yes I agree, that is not a bad idea. Would rather they go that way than go big just to crash and burn again.
So are we thinking Re engine for whatever game comes next?
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,290
Houston, TX
Yes I agree, that is not a bad idea. Would rather they go that way than go big just to crash and burn again.
So are we thinking Re engine for whatever game comes next?
Only Capcom Division 1 (RE, DMC, etc.) uses the RE Engine right now, & Capcom's fighting games are made at Division 2 (SF, MvC, MH, etc.). So unless you want to give development to Division 1, the engine would either be Unreal Engine 4 or MT Framework (probably the former).
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
I just want another marvel superheroes:(

I think this makes the most sense. The MvC brand is damaged at this point. I think it's best to do something else. People on THIS board may prefer the Capcom characters, but the majority of the population prefers the Marvel characters thanks to the movies. And that helps the problem of too many Marvel characters to choose from now that the Fantastic Four and X-Men are back on the table. Make a Marvel Superheroes game and then consider MvC4 if it performs well.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,290
Houston, TX
I think this makes the most sense. The MvC brand is damaged at this point. I think it's best to do something else. People on THIS board may prefer the Capcom characters, but the majority of the population prefers the Marvel characters thanks to the movies. And that helps the problem of too many Marvel characters to choose from now that the Fantastic Four and X-Men are back on the table. Make a Marvel Superheroes game and then consider MvC4 if it performs well.
To be fair, Capcom franchises have come back from worse (see DMC2). Plus I feel like just doing Marvel would feel like a downgrade, even if it would better appeal to the average joe.
 

Deleted member 24624

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
273
Good presentation along with Frank West, Wright, Jin, X-Men, and Venom. It'd be golden. Characters like Asura and Gene would be great too.
 

chanunnaki

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,783
I think they need to go back to 2D. I still don't believe a single 2D fighter has truly reached the pinnacle of what is possible in 2D yet
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
To be fair, Capcom franchises have come back from worse (see DMC2). Plus I feel like just doing Marvel would feel like a downgrade, even if it would better appeal to the average joe.

To some here, maybe, but not for most people. Especially if it's seen as a return to Marvel Super Heroes. They aren't as familiar with Capcom characters outside of the heavy hitters, so you're replacing characters they don't know with characters they do.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
I think if they were to make a pure Marvel game, I'd only be interested if it were 1v1 like MSH.
 

glasiche

Avenger
Feb 12, 2018
474
There will always be beef between those who like the Jazzy funky soundtrack which kicked ass and those who couldn't get down with it. I'd say at the time it was like a 45/45/10. The 10 being people who don't actively listen to music when it's on anyway and were naturally neutral.

Ppl, reading a wiki about the reception of a massively successful game that came out like 20 years ago is silly sometimes because a whole lot of stuff went on in the 90s and early 2000s that will never be internet documented. Got panned by the review mags? It didn't matter if someone in your class was reading the instruction manual at the desk next to you and raving about it
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,748
The next MvC needs to take influences from Into the Spider Verse's style.

Can you imagine the Capcom/Marvel logos opening up the same way as here, transitioning into a crossover esque intro?



So basically an extension of MvC3's style.
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
Of all the things MvC2 did right, "style" would be at the absolute bottom of that list.

Cut-and-paste sprites with several frames removed, a slim # of stages and BGM that evoke absolutely nothing of Marvel or Capcom and clash hard with the action, clashing 3D backgrounds instead of highly detailed 2D stages from prior games, etc.

It very much came across as a low-budget title that just tried to cram as many returning characters as it could into a single game. That it turned out to be fun to play was fortunate.

Biggest disappointment for me.

Everyone came in thinking we'd get Nero, Jack Baker, Rashid, Asura, etc.

Instead we got to see fucking BioCom 09 Spencer and RE5 Chris again.
At this point Spencer kind of comes across to me as an MvC character first and it feels weird to see the old version used instead.
 

Yurinka

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,457
I think they should go to the SFV way with the retro art style to make it more similar to the MvC 2D games and tons of unlockables as MvC2 had but focusing on having colors or costumes as unlockables.

But regarding characters, I think they should go with a gazillion characters from the start. Think MvsC2 or Smash Bros.

Just take UMvC3, use another shader to make it look like MvC2 and 3D versions of all the remaining MvC2 characters and add some new ones from the MCU movies and some characters from SFxT, USFIV and SFVAE. Make sure the Marvel characters have both modern and classic costumes if available.
 
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HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,586
Why would I want MvC2 music when I could be ballin out of control to MvC 3 music?
 

SaikyoBro

Member
Oct 26, 2017
70
It's hard to believe MHW, RE2 and DMC5 were published by the same company as MvCI. I really want them to make a fighting game with the same amount of love and polish. I agree with the OP that the unique funky aesthetic of MvC2 is part of why it's so well-remembered, but I think in broader terms a new game just needs to be eye-catching and have some kind of identity. I think MvC3 nailed this and is one of Capcom's finest audio-visual works to date.

Brand recognition means MvC4 or SF6 would probably do better than a Capcom All-Stars or Darkstalkers 4, but if they were to make a game that's visually striking, had an acceptable amount of content at launch (preferably not consisting of 80% reused assets from the last game like MvCI) with a steady and transparent plan for ongoing support, and combined classic gameplay with new mechanics that are fun to experiment with and rewarding to use, any of these games could get people talking. NRS and Smash games get this insane word-of-mouth hype buzzing as soon as they're announced, maintain it with community engagement and frequent development updates until launch, and upon release they're met with glowing reviews and record-breaking sales. Capcom insists on ignoring this formula and instead continuing to rush their fighting games out and bank on DLC profits coming in later. They're good at making their fighting games fun, but that matters less and less when they're so willing to throw away the community's good will at a moment's notice.

Don't release a $60 game that feels like it was made to sell us DLC, don't allocate an exorbitant amount of the budget to a throwaway story mode, just try to give us a game that's going to earn some good press up until release and have legs to stand on moving forward. I like SFV but I think it's fair to say MvC3 was Capcom's last real fighting game success story, and with 8 years having passed since then, it's becoming harder and harder to maintain any faith in Capcom's fighting game division.
 

Vagabond

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,318
United States
It just needs to be fun to play and watch, like UMvC3 was. I'd argue that MvC2 has a load of nostalgia going for it but little else.

And MVCI was fun to play if you really put a lot of time and love into it. It didn't click with me at all so i didn't, and some of the changed elements actually put me off of it. Would be nice if Capcom just carried the good (IMO) additions back to UMvC3 and added some characters, some stages, a new mode or two - including one in depth singleplayer mode and not that story abomination MvCI had, and called it MvC4.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
Also they need to hire whoever does the voice direction and casting of SFV for any future fighting title. Why does everyone in Marvel Infinite sound depressed and unenthusiastic compared to the godlike VA in UMvC3?
 

AlecKoKuTan

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,256
Irvine, CA
A MVC thread? I'm just gonna lurk. For the love of everything gaming, Capcom can get CapGod status for real by doing more fighters, Mvc4 (triple a, big budget) and a low budget Capcom vs Capcom, project X zone wit, story, but tag team gameplay 2v2 and mvc4 goes back to 3v3 with custom assist or 3v3 with tag, LETS FUCKING GO

CVC could be this gen but MVC4 should be next gen, let that shit brew a while. Also MvC4 needs music remixes and playlist options that rival tekken 7s jukebox or the Smash series.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
6,302
Might not be a popular opinion but they should lean far more into the mainstream audience of both Capcom and Marvel than they do already. Every MCU protagonist and most of the notable antagonists should be standard. At this point it's also ridiculous how little representation Resident Evil has. Leon, Claire and Mr X are now musts. You could also add the Licker and Tyrant.
 

Doctrine Dark

Member
Nov 13, 2017
2,434
Might not be a popular opinion but they should lean far more into the mainstream audience of both Capcom and Marvel than they do already. Every MCU protagonist and most of the notable antagonists should be standard. At this point it's also ridiculous how little representation Resident Evil has. Leon, Claire and Mr X are now musts. You could also add the Licker and Tyrant.

Definitely agree on Leon. I love Claire, but I feel like Ada would be more appropriate.

Tyrant and Licker would be better off as summons. Mr. X could be a playable character, though.
 

id.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
158
mvc2 is my favorite fighting game of all time. it's one of my favorite games of all time.

i can't even really fully explain why it's so great for me, but the controls feel so tight and rewarding. One of the reasons I hated mvc3 was because it felt way too zoomed in, and the characters were almost too large on screen as a result. I hated that there were no tech rolls, and i didn't like the change in the control layout from mvc2. And I honestly just prefer the sprites. I did enjoy the first mvc game, but i prefer the 3v3 with infinite assists.

I've given up hope to ever find another fighting game I enjoy as much as mvc2, but it would make me so happy if Capcom went back to that style and feel.
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,559
Capcom needs to correct the mistakes of the past and finally put some Breath of Fire and Power Stone representation in a Vs. game

I also haven't forgiven them for not including Devilotte in Pocket Fighter
 

Mugy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,424
I remember Niitsuma (I think) saying that mvc3 was an attempt to design the style of the game around American comic books, instead of the way the took with previous game, were they were more colorful and stylish, more like an anime or Japanese way to design marvel characters. Umvc3 was perfect in that regard, with they more level down tone but still really colorful. But for me what is the key element of those games is that they feel like a party, both universes colliding and characters interacting with each other. It was all about the fun. MVCI attempts on a "cinematic" experience with and lame-broke ass Story mode that nobody liked and that middle point with realistic art style for animated characters with probably one of the worst use of chromatic aberration I've seen in a game. Not even Tekken 7 did it as bad.

I don't care which style an hypothetical MVC4 would use, but it has to be a celebration. They need to put these characters to interact in the most fun way possible. That's all i want