Sorry to not be of any help but I haven't actually had any 'experiences' lol. I'm mainly going from what I've seen both on Grindr and on LGBT subreddits.
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The number of adults without sex in the prior year is disproportionately increasing among young men
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Sorry to not be of any help but I haven't actually had any 'experiences' lol. I'm mainly going from what I've seen both on Grindr and on LGBT subreddits.
These are all things that help if you're unattractive. They aren't all required or even a few. If you put effort into presenting yourself well and are generally pleasant, it doesn't matter if you're not a comedian. Planning a nice date and having a nice time together is more important than any specific factor. Being confident and not being awkward is probably more important than being hilarious. But I wouldn't know because I don't be have a problem being that way.
Humor definitely helps, it's just not a requirement is what I'm saying. I'm friends with people aren't very funny. I've gone out with people who are funny. Humor helps, but is not a requirement.
In your head, it seems meet ups can only go one way and I'm saying people are different.
Adjacent to in shape just means, not obese. Can physically satisfy a person without getting tired quickly or sweating over them.
Shhh, don't tell people internet and social medias are not real life.
Maybe 10% of the people I know personally are actively on Tinder and that's probably not the people you want to hang out with.
Dating & sex in America is, like everything else in capitalism, a transaction in a marketplace of consumers.
That is to say, everyone wants the best with the lowest cost or effort on their own part. Which is why online dating has taken off. Women specifically get to set the market and its standards. The problem is, since Tinder takes all the effort out of getting to know a person on a deeper level, it's basically a game to see who can make the best impression on the first glance - your looks. And if you're not what's considered ideal according to the standards of the marketplace, you're gonna be swiped left.
What this has led to, along with real world capitalism in America, is the middle being squeezed out, and the bottom being even more squeezed than they already were. A lot of average men, in terms of looks, are gonna be passed on for better looking options. A lot of this comes down to mentality. Most straight dudes are going to go after any relatively attractive looking woman. This leads to women being picky because they're getting flooded with options begging to be picked. And this leads to the marketplace being slanted towards the good looking, and creates a feedback loop.
It should be said that not all of these guys that are getting squeezed out are doing anything particularly wrong. It's popular to shit on men right now, but it's folly to assume that there's a character issue when the number of men not having sex is that high. That's the one problem I have with this statistic. It doesn't really do a good enough job of highlighting demographic breakdowns , like race or sexual orientation. For instance, I'd imagine that for the majority of the Tinder userbase, there aren't a whole lot of Black or Asian men getting swiped right on. Especially if you're like me, and you happen to live in a metropolitan area that has significantly more White women than anyone else. There's also the issue of mental health, and that is a real obstacle when it comes to dating and interacting with people in general.
However, even with all those nuances, there are problematic behaviors that have been systematically engrained into the heads of a lot of men. That's why, at the end of the day, we should be pursuing education as the solution to this problem. We should be more informative about the way men should properly approach women, what is "shooting your shot" vs what is harassment, and more social coaching in general. And for those with mental health issues, counseling could help alleviate the anxiety felt by some when interacting with others.
But instead of doing really any of that, most people will settle on the typical capitalist response: it's your fault. Which is exactly what most of this thread has done. And it sucks because, as another user pointed out, violent incel communities take advantage of that.
That is to say, everyone wants the best with the lowest cost or effort on their own part. Which is why online dating has taken off. Women specifically get to set the market and its standards. The problem is, since Tinder takes all the effort out of getting to know a person on a deeper level, it's basically a game to see who can make the best impression on the first glance - your looks. And if you're not what's considered ideal according to the standards of the marketplace, you're gonna be swiped left.
What this has led to, along with real world capitalism in America, is the middle being squeezed out, and the bottom being even more squeezed than they already were. A lot of average men, in terms of looks, are gonna be passed on for better looking options. A lot of this comes down to mentality. Most straight dudes are going to go after any relatively attractive looking woman. This leads to women being picky because they're getting flooded with options begging to be picked. And this leads to the marketplace being slanted towards the good looking, and creates a feedback loop.
It should be said that not all of these guys that are getting squeezed out are doing anything particularly wrong. It's popular to shit on men right now, but it's folly to assume that there's a character issue when the number of men not having sex is that high. That's the one problem I have with this statistic. It doesn't really do a good enough job of highlighting demographic breakdowns , like race or sexual orientation. For instance, I'd imagine that for the majority of the Tinder userbase, there aren't a whole lot of Black or Asian men getting swiped right on. Especially if you're like me, and you happen to live in a metropolitan area that has significantly more White women than anyone else. There's also the issue of mental health, and that is a real obstacle when it comes to dating and interacting with people in general.
However, even with all those nuances, there are problematic behaviors that have been systematically engrained into the heads of a lot of men. That's why, at the end of the day, we should be pursuing education as the solution to this problem. We should be more informative about the way men should properly approach women, what is "shooting your shot" vs what is harassment, and more social coaching in general. And for those with mental health issues, counseling could help alleviate the anxiety felt by some when interacting with others.
But instead of doing really any of that, most people will settle on the typical capitalist response: it's your fault. Which is exactly what most of this thread has done. And it sucks because, as another user pointed out, violent incel communities take advantage of that.
Not disputing what you're saying. I was mostly just pointing out that it's most definitely not only men that post bad/boring pictures, or write dull descriptions on dating sites/apps.
What no earth.
I'm gonna tell you, no women ever ever talks about how alpha or beta a man is.
Wit, connection, conversation style, friendliness, a nice smile. We're not looking for some jacked monkey man who can fight people because they served time in a gang. And women who want that are NOT the type of girl you'd wanna be with.
This has been one helluva thread to read. Never tried online dating before, but it sounds it can be a fairly soul crushing experience.
I'm 38, 6'2", full head of hair, a little overweight, and I'm a reasonably handsome guy, but I haven't had sex in over a year and a half. There have been a decent amount of women in my life since my late teens, some relationships long (5+ years) while others pitifully short (3 months). The thing is, a majority of them ended in heartbreak. The 5 year one ended so bad that after she left me for my best friend, I moved from the west coast to the east and severed my ties with everyone back in my small home town, all so that I wouldn't commit suicide due to the devastation and loss I was feeling.
The reason I bring this up is that these experiences made me realize that I can't depend on other people to give me happiness, that I have to be self sufficient in that regard. I admit that my overall life has been happier and less stressful in a lot of ways, but my sex life has plummeted because I simply don't want to get hurt like that again, and that won't happen if I don't put myself out there.
To be clear I'm not saying I'll never again meet another woman that I can pour my love and heart into, I'm just saying that it is no longer a goal to find a soulmate or even to get laid. I've learned to not be afraid of the idea of being alone and focusing on bettering myself. If I meet someone, great! If not, then so be it. This thread has made me wonder how many people are out there like me.
I'm 38, 6'2", full head of hair, a little overweight, and I'm a reasonably handsome guy, but I haven't had sex in over a year and a half. There have been a decent amount of women in my life since my late teens, some relationships long (5+ years) while others pitifully short (3 months). The thing is, a majority of them ended in heartbreak. The 5 year one ended so bad that after she left me for my best friend, I moved from the west coast to the east and severed my ties with everyone back in my small home town, all so that I wouldn't commit suicide due to the devastation and loss I was feeling.
The reason I bring this up is that these experiences made me realize that I can't depend on other people to give me happiness, that I have to be self sufficient in that regard. I admit that my overall life has been happier and less stressful in a lot of ways, but my sex life has plummeted because I simply don't want to get hurt like that again, and that won't happen if I don't put myself out there.
To be clear I'm not saying I'll never again meet another woman that I can pour my love and heart into, I'm just saying that it is no longer a goal to find a soulmate or even to get laid. I've learned to not be afraid of the idea of being alone and focusing on bettering myself. If I meet someone, great! If not, then so be it. This thread has made me wonder how many people are out there like me.
I don't know about that; Millennials and Gen Z are actually more diverse than the ones before it, and I would hesitate to put too much stock into the toxic young white man effect when they make up less 25% of the young male demographic.
Absolutely, it's a cycle that really says more about what they tell themselves every day.
People that are attractive, have high self-worth/esteem, successful all deal with negative thoughts and highs and lows. There is no perpetual state of "feeling awesome about myself all the time yay!" That would not be human at all and these guys that get men think always get the girl do get rejected as well... It happens and not everyone is going to like you but they don't stay there. The difference is figuring out yourself--it happens differently for everyone and at different times too. People refuse to do this work and usually tie that work to gaining more "things" they believe will make them a better mate because Chad has those things and gets laid all the time. What do you have to offer someone? Are you stable? Can you be someone's rock? Do you respect yourself? Do you love yourself? Can manage on your own? Are you interesting? Can you support a family (not just financially because that's just a piece of the pie)?
The fact that you have to constantly compare yourself to others is a huge red flag. And a sign of a lack of self-esteem. Also, you can have lots of sex with women and still be pretty miserable. I know that is hard for guys to believe though.
I just meant you can see what the current state of things is potentially leading to.
Yeah that's spot on.
Sadly I don't see a real solution to this besides outvoting these people to ensure their ideology doesn't affect the government and others.
It seems to be getting worse.
We're talking about a gap of 10% between Men and Women 18-30 reporting lack of sex, with young men specifically spiking a lot higher than young women in the last few years.
I absolutely think the toxicity of modern conservatism is a factor here. I mean, look at the chart:
The decline for young men takes off like a rocket post 2008. Hell, as recently as about 2010 it appeared to be dead even. Internet dating i.e. OKcupid, plentyoffish, etc existed long before 2008/2010- Tinder just took that audience. So what happened in 2008 that caused women 18-30 to start losing interest in men?
edit: and keep in mind also that this chart is 18-30 year old men and women regardless of the year. If you were 30 years old in 2008, you weren't a millennial or Gen-Z, you were Gen-X. Gen Z barely factors into this chart at all until very recently and doesn't buck the trend.
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Yeah, most people I know aren't on tinder, and are still in relationships.
I think tinder is useful for certain types of people, but for a lot of people they're using it to try and skip out on social situations and are treating it as the only way to date. If online dating is the only time you're interacting with women, maybe change that first.
I do feel like my experience is worth noting, I never had a lot of confidence in high school despite my high position in Hockey and high social "status" of teammates. I'd always find ways to dismiss the signs that girls liked me for another more depressing reason. I thought Tinder would help, no many how many matches I got or hook ups I had I would still hit my depressive lows. I hit over 1000 matches after a year in post secondary and still would have my dips into suicidal thoughts or need for reassurance. It wasn't until I had a proper relationship and started working that those feelings went away.
I think there is a lot of social pressure on men to strive to be that sexual success that we see so often in media. But I think even if one were to achieve that, (I wasn't hooking up with supermodels but these girls were good looking for sure) they likely won't find happiness. I deleted my account and don't regret it. On occasion I'll remake one for a quick hook up or meet friends but a lot of men feel the need to use it like Indidnto validate themselves.
I think there is a lot of social pressure on men to strive to be that sexual success that we see so often in media. But I think even if one were to achieve that, (I wasn't hooking up with supermodels but these girls were good looking for sure) they likely won't find happiness. I deleted my account and don't regret it. On occasion I'll remake one for a quick hook up or meet friends but a lot of men feel the need to use it like Indidnto validate themselves.
the reason for this disparity can probably just be boiled down to two facts
1. the cultural expectation that men are supposed to ask out women has not yet been fully extinguished
2. younger people are struggling with access to housing
if men are the ones expected to ask people out and take the active role, and younger people in general have less access to housing in which sex can be had, then men are going to have less sex
as someone who is attracted to both men and women, from what i've seen i don't think the standards men are held to have actually risen nearly as much as they have been alleged to... or at least, men haven't yet risen in response to meet those alleged standards
i think it is true that the societal standards women are held to forces them to put large amounts of energy into developing their presentation skills, whereas the societal standards men are held to discourages them from developing their communication skills and own presentation style, which leads to what people call an "attractiveness gap" that is really just an "experience gap"
(another example of how toxic masculinity handicaps men and holds them back from being their best self)
but i don't think this actually has nearly as much of an impact on dating as people think - it just means that even a small contribution to developing presentation skills in men gives massive returns because the bar has been set so low for them in this arena
similarly, i don't think men realize that the way many of them expect women to look and act constitutes very high standards - it's just been normalized that women are held to these demands, so men don't think about it
but again i don't think this has as large of an impact as it should, because again these inflated standards that women are held to have been normalized for so long
these two observations will probably cause more of a shift in dating attitudes in the future, but i don't think they are nearly widespread enough yet to account for large scale changes like this
1. the cultural expectation that men are supposed to ask out women has not yet been fully extinguished
2. younger people are struggling with access to housing
if men are the ones expected to ask people out and take the active role, and younger people in general have less access to housing in which sex can be had, then men are going to have less sex
as someone who is attracted to both men and women, from what i've seen i don't think the standards men are held to have actually risen nearly as much as they have been alleged to... or at least, men haven't yet risen in response to meet those alleged standards
i think it is true that the societal standards women are held to forces them to put large amounts of energy into developing their presentation skills, whereas the societal standards men are held to discourages them from developing their communication skills and own presentation style, which leads to what people call an "attractiveness gap" that is really just an "experience gap"
(another example of how toxic masculinity handicaps men and holds them back from being their best self)
but i don't think this actually has nearly as much of an impact on dating as people think - it just means that even a small contribution to developing presentation skills in men gives massive returns because the bar has been set so low for them in this arena
similarly, i don't think men realize that the way many of them expect women to look and act constitutes very high standards - it's just been normalized that women are held to these demands, so men don't think about it
but again i don't think this has as large of an impact as it should, because again these inflated standards that women are held to have been normalized for so long
these two observations will probably cause more of a shift in dating attitudes in the future, but i don't think they are nearly widespread enough yet to account for large scale changes like this
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One thing I forgot to mention. Millennial men also suffer with the rise of Autism/ other disorders. I have Autism myself and it's a huge barrier with any social interaction not just dating.
Ah, that's fine. I just wanted to compare straight and gay hook-up cultures and I feel awkward asking this stuff IRL to anyone I know, lol.
I disagree. If the graph is right it looks like there has been a steady, linear relationship between age bracket and (lack of) sex since 2008. If the rise of alt-right conservatism and Trump is to be blamed, I'd argue we'd have seen a sharper increase in 2016 or even the couple of years before it. The data do not fit your assertion.
Makes sense absolutely and why I don't plan on living much longer.
Not all people are born winners in life, I wish no I'll will on those that are nor do I blame woman for my failures, it's just not something all of us can break out of.
Thread kind of proves the point of how worthless those like me whom are not having sex or relationships are though so that's been interesting. Examples being.. alt-right.. trump supporters.. incels and people that do not work. Damn.
Oh well.
Wise and true words. Good luck explaining that to those people who're on Twitter/Facebook/Fortnite most of their free time. That's the entire problem here. Good luck explaining them that only a fraction of the population are hard on social medias. They're just a big bubble people take way too seriousely.
Spot on. I was coming in here to post something similar, but you put this far better than I would have.
This thread predictably went on repeat that I've called out pages ago.
Male posters now going back to whining about the genetic lottery, fucking heights, and crying about 'high standards'.
I and other female posters have literally given our opinion and experience on the matter and its largely ignored. If 'high standards'is putting more effort into dress than a faded graphic tee and hobbies that esports than maybe take a serious self reflection of who you are as a person. Especially when the women you want are almost exclusively in the top 20% range.
I've seen PLENTY of average dudes with girlfriends and wives because- surprise looks are good but so is a personality. But nah let's just talk over us and claim that women are obsessed with the Edward Cullens of the world.
I hate these threads.
Male posters now going back to whining about the genetic lottery, fucking heights, and crying about 'high standards'.
I and other female posters have literally given our opinion and experience on the matter and its largely ignored. If 'high standards'is putting more effort into dress than a faded graphic tee and hobbies that esports than maybe take a serious self reflection of who you are as a person. Especially when the women you want are almost exclusively in the top 20% range.
I've seen PLENTY of average dudes with girlfriends and wives because- surprise looks are good but so is a personality. But nah let's just talk over us and claim that women are obsessed with the Edward Cullens of the world.
I hate these threads.
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The rise of alt-right conservatism and tea party lunacy started immediately in 2008 when Obama was elected, not in 2016. It got worse in 2010 after that conservative strategy was wildly successful and handed democrats the worst midterm loss in decades. At that point the rhetoric got MUCH worse.
The data EXACTLY fits that pattern. This isn't a recent thing and Trump is a symptom of it, not the cause.
edit: Trump himself was pushing racist birtherism about Obama as far back as *2011*
https://www.thecontrarianconservati...-of-trumps-birtherism-and-how-the-gop-reacted
I really do think this mostly boils down to the dating apps. A couple posters here have shrugged off the increased competition thing but anecdotally it matches up with my experiences in addition to making intuitive sense. Women have a lot more options to pick from and the more attractive guys really do get to benefit from this by dating a lot more. I think I might have just squeeked in that top 20 percent threshold because I do do pretty well for myself based what I've heard from peers.
20 percent might sound like a small margin but it's big enough that hard work alone could put any guy there. Sure, we have to live with the genetic hand we're delt but almost any guy can achieve an aesthetically pleasing body, a charming personality, style, and confidence.
Theres nothing unfair about the increased competition aspect either. If women were the more sex obsessed gender then men would be the pickier ones. Evolutionarily speaking, it just didn't shake out that way.
It's a free market that works on supply and demand like every other. In a post tinder world, guys who crave sex are in massive supply, thus women get to demand more. That's fine, just be the creme de le creme of the supply. Almost anyone can be.
20 percent might sound like a small margin but it's big enough that hard work alone could put any guy there. Sure, we have to live with the genetic hand we're delt but almost any guy can achieve an aesthetically pleasing body, a charming personality, style, and confidence.
Theres nothing unfair about the increased competition aspect either. If women were the more sex obsessed gender then men would be the pickier ones. Evolutionarily speaking, it just didn't shake out that way.
It's a free market that works on supply and demand like every other. In a post tinder world, guys who crave sex are in massive supply, thus women get to demand more. That's fine, just be the creme de le creme of the supply. Almost anyone can be.
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Your specific point has been repeated ad nauseum in this thread.
Women also have autism. It isn't that simple.
Many replies here straight up read like something from an incel subreddit. Only thing missing is people complaining about the Chads and the Roasties.
User Banned (1 Week): Misogynistic Rhetoric
The bolded is a very stupid things to say. You think only good looking and rich men are worth it ? What kind of bullshit requirement are those ? Are you rich and very good looking yourself to judge people like they're some cereal packages on shelves ? I'd be really curious to see what you look like. You're giving your very own and out-of-touch opinion here. Don't make us look or sound like we're all gold diggers searching for stud to brag about on instagram.
I'm a woman too and I could care less about six abs, jaw line and money. I'd rather date someone humble and a bit shy than your 6"2 chad with a lot of money (speaking from experience here).
See, I didn't lie when I told earlier that the girl who are actively on Tinder are not the girl you want to settle or even chat with. They have bullshit requirements and they can destroy your self-esteem in so little time. Don't give them any kind of power.
No one is born a winner or a loser. You are what you make yourself to a certain extent sure there are outside factors that might help or hamper ones life. With the outlook you've posted it oozes from you and others can sense it. You just need a change in perspective or something to snap out of the train of thought in your post.
I mean, to be fair, the ratios are like not even close
There's obviously more to it than autism, but saying women also have it does pretty much nothing to dispel that theory
It probably is a pretty complex issue that can't be boiled down to any one thing. Personally, I think it's mostly the apps. But economic problems, and other societal factors must account for it as well.
Is it really that big? I imagined it was something like 60/40
But it's from 'chads' so its been brushed off. It seems like most of yall don't want reasons. You just wanted an outlet to complain with no effort to improve.
When I first got with my gf we were like rabbits as she called it. But now it's down to her it's maybe once or twice a month and that's too low imo.
Even the most generous of ratios say 2:1. Realistically it's probably between 2:1 and 4:1
Some sources claim upwards of like 9:1, but those largely seem to be from fairly old studies
Yeah, but Autistic men outnumber women by large ratio. I've read around 4:1
This thread isnt really about "nerds should dress better" or start "hiking". It's the curiosity that
a) a large portion of the population stopped having sex;
b) more men than women represent that portion;
a) a large portion of the population stopped having sex;
b) more men than women represent that portion;
So 78% of women on tinder have too high of standards? And or think they are in a different 'hot' tier than reality?
Their quote literally boiled down to most dudes on Tindr have NOTHING to offer on anything long or short term and you warped it to accuse the OP of being a Shallow pretty girl who is only in it for hotties and slobbering sugar daddies?
Fuck outta here with this crap.
That's interesting. Disregard my comment then.
1000x this. They're posting exactly like how they're dating/trying to hook up. It's not about the other person's thoughts or wants.
It became that because people started complaining about women's "unrealistic" expectations.
I mean, the statement was still true.
What do you want people to tell you?
"Good advice! I guess me changing out of this Cheetos-stained 1UP mushroom shirt sure will change my dating prospects!"
It's a very complicated problem. And your generic platitudes have literally been repeated this entire thread, so most people aren't actually ignoring you.
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