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The Obi-Wan vs Darth Vader scene is so bad
- Thread starter MillionIII
- Start date
The music alteration is awful and misses the point, though.
Which he's fortunately removing in the HD Revisited version due to the feedback :), although I can see his good intention in its use thematically to tie in with Obi Wan and Anakin's last duel on Mustafar.
That scene has poor choreography. But it's the first lightsaber scene EVER. With one actor in a bulky costume and the other a 65 year old English actor in a space opera imagining a laser sword.
To those defending the shitty prequel fights:
All the choreography and CGI in the world doesn't mean jack shit in a movie lacking charismatic character building, excellent story telling, and emotional weight.
Compare prequel fight scene #342 to that first scene. In it Kenobi is merely distracting Vader long enough for Luke to escape...then fucking die and become a ghost. Fulfilling a foreshadowed destiny. The scene - clunky as it may be - actually means something.
This lack of understanding is why I can't stand the prequels, Marvel films not called Logan, and the dark place called modern DC films.
To those defending the shitty prequel fights:
All the choreography and CGI in the world doesn't mean jack shit in a movie lacking charismatic character building, excellent story telling, and emotional weight.
Compare prequel fight scene #342 to that first scene. In it Kenobi is merely distracting Vader long enough for Luke to escape...then fucking die and become a ghost. Fulfilling a foreshadowed destiny. The scene - clunky as it may be - actually means something.
This lack of understanding is why I can't stand the prequels, Marvel films not called Logan, and the dark place called modern DC films.
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That's an interesting way to characterize (or a convenient way to dismiss) analysis and critique in support of a position that you disagree with.
In general I'm honestly good with both. It's Samurai cinema vs Wuxia. It's a bit conflicting but there are bigger problems in the franchise than that, as much as I love it.
But why did he call him Darth is Darth his name?
People come for the prequels for their whirly dwirly lightsaber spin fights but the scene at the end of Rogue One where Darth is an epic Marvel movie badass isnt exactly keeping the spirit of the original trilogy either where Darth let his troopers do all the work
People come for the prequels for their whirly dwirly lightsaber spin fights but the scene at the end of Rogue One where Darth is an epic Marvel movie badass isnt exactly keeping the spirit of the original trilogy either where Darth let his troopers do all the work
I don't understand this nonsense. When I was watching this as a kid it was the most awesome thing, that's all that counts.
I like how in the prequels, ultimate power in the force is expressed in how many flips you can do. in the OT, it was an amazing feat for yoda to life the x-wing out of the swamp. The PT drained a lot of the mysticism out of the Force. I think the new trilogy has done the force a lot better.
The fight should have been quicker, with less swings and awakard movements. Lucas really has no excuse 'cause he watched a lot of samurai movies.
Yup. The scene was a tired old man clearly regretting taking the job and an actor in an unwieldy plastic suit, and basically zero fight choreography. It was never gonna look good.
There are two reasons behind Obi-Wan's warning to Darth Vader killing him:
1. He intentionally positioned himself to be struck down in Luke's sight, turning himself into a martyr for Luke Skywalker.
2. He transcends mortality/physical limitation and becomes a pure "Force" being.
Darth Vader steps on him because he slices Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan literally vanishes into thin air. Earlier in the film, you see Obi-Wan dismember the man's arm in the Cantina in Mos Eisley. Darth Vader is obviously aware of the physical properties of a lightsaber, so when Obi-Wan vanishes, he doesn't know what to make of it.
To be fair, Yoda was close to dying. All the Jedi and Sith characters in the prequels are active warriors in a golden age, some of them in their prime. In the OT they're old people who barely use the force, a trainee with barely any training and a maimed guy that can barely breathe.
Of course, these are justifications you can come up with after the fact, Lucas didn't think of this when filming the first movie, but I think it's a reasonable way to look at it.
"amazing climax" lol
So that's what the kids are calling a hamfisted melodramatic ending to a c-tier film these days...
So that's what the kids are calling a hamfisted melodramatic ending to a c-tier film these days...
The saber props had cables and batteries attached to them to spin the blade, and the cables ran into the sleeves of the actors. That didn't allow for anywhere as much freedom as a normal samurai blade.
I know. This scene should have been a lot slower, with only one single strike after a long standoff.
Like a scene from the Water Margin where two fighters face each other. They know they are evenly matched, so they just stand there for a day, waiting for the other one to show a weakness. One eventually attacks when the wind picks up and blows sand in the other one's face.
It could have been Obi being distracted for a split second by Luke calling out to him and Vader seizing the opportunity to strike.
Like a scene from the Water Margin where two fighters face each other. They know they are evenly matched, so they just stand there for a day, waiting for the other one to show a weakness. One eventually attacks when the wind picks up and blows sand in the other one's face.
It could have been Obi being distracted for a split second by Luke calling out to him and Vader seizing the opportunity to strike.
Agreed, it was fucking stupid and the dialog was terrible. "Only a Master of Evil, Darth".
You could tell that Sir Alex Guinness didn't want to be there at all and just wanted to get it done and leave.
All of my friends who are new to Star Wars cringed hard at that scene. "WHAT?! THAT is how Obi Wan goes out after his epic fight with Anakin in the previous movie??".
You could tell that Sir Alex Guinness didn't want to be there at all and just wanted to get it done and leave.
All of my friends who are new to Star Wars cringed hard at that scene. "WHAT?! THAT is how Obi Wan goes out after his epic fight with Anakin in the previous movie??".
Harmy > Adywan
Mostly because of the colour corrections.
Also adding excessive CG to the OT is weird.
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This isn't the gotcha to prove your point that you think it is.
I haven't watched A New Hope since I was a kid and I was transfixed watching that clip. I love the mood, the way it is shot, how it goes unscored until the climax. It's like a tiny story. Really good!
Seems so. And it seems like he started with episode 1 and watched A new Hope after episode 3.
Star wars wasn't done with the prequels in mind..
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Whoa there. Those are definitely not Kendo moves. Kendo moves are meant to incapacitate.
Their words tell a better story than flippy sword fighting shit.
Also, its an old man and a disabled half robot dude. Not sure why you expect better. As far as being strong, the force is much more than lightsabers and triple moonsault jumps.
Also, its an old man and a disabled half robot dude. Not sure why you expect better. As far as being strong, the force is much more than lightsabers and triple moonsault jumps.
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That Harakiri scene is vastly closer to what's in the ANH fight than the RotS fight. A general lack of music until the climax of the fight. Slow deliberate moves, where the fighters spend more time testing each other than actually striking at each other. Human error causing them to flub a few moves (both the characters and the actors themselves). The fighters playing mind games with each other and staring each other down. Not really moving terribly much once they get to the fight location.
Compare that to a loud bombastic fight with screetching melodramatic music, very drawn out trade of blows where the fighters basically keep rapidly throwing out flashy moves that otherwise mean very little, all while jumping around an exploding lava set piece straight from a video game of that era.
Still classic. Still iconic. Still one of the best moments in all SW. The choreography might age but the meaning and dramatic essence behind the scene won't. At the end of the day that's all that matters.
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I like both this style and the prequel's style, the one in ANH is just an old actor flopping his stick at another dude. He clearly didn't train for this scene and it shows.
They had to move slow in 1977 so the "CGI" guys could match up the lighting on the sticks easier.
Lol this is my new head canon.
I actually LOVE LOVVVVVEEEEE Guinness's Obi-Wan, everything he does in the OT is amazing.
When I left you I was but a learner, now I am the master!
Only a master of evil!
