The One Piece fandom and trans characters

This has been in the running for awhile now and I wanted to talk about it, to give context this is Yamato:

- Refers to themself as a man/self identifies as a man
- uses male pronouns and words associated with men/boys like Boku
- referred to by Luffy the MAIN CHARACTER as a man & uses male pronouns
- His own bastard of a father Kaido call Yamato his son numerous times

Now this is already bad enough to misgender someone especially when all the other characters around Yamato refer to him as male its like they just see breasts and think woman as if transitioning is the only way to be considered a man.

mod edit: removed screenshots of other sites due to off-site drama rules. this topic is important, just keep it more general


Just even scrolling through any topic referring to Yamato is more then enough to see the site is a dumbster fire and that those who post there are clearly transphobic, to say otherwise would be feigning ignorance if they try to argue they are not transphobic.

Now One Piece has defiantly had its history and own troubles with trans and LGBT+ characters, most-notably the Okamas:

Okama it self being a slur/slang for homosexuality and such, Sanji own dealings with them outside of characters like Bon Clay and Ivankov, some being just treated as jokes etc that contrast with for the most part they are portrayed as being some of the most honest and heroic characters in the series with Bon Clay, being a major force fighting against the tyranical World Government with the Revs, Ivankov being one of the strongest fighters and a general miracle worker helping others.

Of all the big shonens from Naruto, Bleach, FMA, or even Dragon Ball its one of the few series that has characters like this for all the goods and bad it brings.

Which again brings me back to Wano as I said earlier Wano introduced us to two trans characters now getting back to Yamato:

As I stated before everyone refers to Yamato as he, not only that Yamato has proven himself to be strong fighting & beating characters that are high ranking members of Yonko crews such as the Flying Six and is even more impressive in the leaked chapter not withstanding but Yamato is one of the potential final members of the Strawhat crew

The biggest issue potentially for Yamato is that his gender identity is tied to Oden so the worry is that one day Yamato would abandon that but I would say as time has gone on and even with the recent leaked chapter my worry of that has lowered.

The other character is Kiku:

Kiku was the first character relating to this thread we meet, when we first saw Kiku she was just a demur Tea Hostess, but as we spent time with her we knew there was more as that was all just a cover so she could blend into Wano as she is wanted and hide her skills as one of the strongest fighters in all of Wano who has even cut down the traitor of Wano Kanjuro

Though here with these two there is a unique situation, the a good amount of One Piece fans have acknowledge Kikus gender yet ignore all of Yamatos words, Luffy words and Kaidos words about how Yamato identifies male yet a good amount of the fanbase ignores this and continues to call Yamato female.

While Oda has improved his potrayel of LGBT characters but we should still be watchful and critique him as maybe its the only way Oda will ever give us great representation.

With all this I turn it over to you, what are your guys thoughts on Yamato & Kiku?

What are your thoughts on Odas potrayel of LGBT characters?

How can Oda improve in this area?
 
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Dio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,258
Oda doesn't make much sense. in one way, he nails characters like ivankov(specially given the inspirations), Bon Clay, and now Yamato, everyone using male pronouns for him, etc.
on the other hand...Sanji as a character with the timeskip, where he basically says ''okamas'' are predatory, alongside the fact sanji almost denied blood transfusion when it was revealed to him the only ones available were okamas.
I sincerely don't understand.
 

Dougieflesh

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Oct 25, 2017
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Although I think Oda has really improved, some things could definitely be better. I personally feel that Yamato's introduction panel saying "Daughter of Kaido" wasn't needed. It gave transphobes more ammo unintentionally.
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
14,652
One Piece does not, and has never, done right by his Transgender characters. A big part of me thinks that Oda originally wrote all of them to be jokes and was actually surprised and annerved when people liked them and attached to them, forcing him to make them be bigger parts of future stories.

And I won't make any excuses for this Shift character, I don't know him, but to the defense of other people doing this, to be fair, Yamato's appearance, gender and background were all meant to be huge mysteries until about a month ago and the only reason why it hasn't really been a thing in story yet is because the first person they run into is Luffy, who's response would be immediate acceptance or a fight. The two transgender characters in Wano aren't bad, but this constant need to have them hide as brothel workers or sex merchants or being the butt of Sanji jokes is gross and just goes to show that Oda doesn't know how to handle the material.

It's one of those things where I think he thinks it's all fine simply because they're included at all. But like, Bon Clay, Ivanov, some of the early buggy/Raveda pirates...those were not attempts at making a serious, cool, transgender character. They were meant to be jokes, but we loved them anyway.
 
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Oda doesn't make much sense. in one way, he nails characters like ivankov(specially given the inspirations), Bon Clay, and now Yamato, everyone using male pronouns for him, etc.
on the other hand...Sanji as a character with the timeskip, where he basically says ''okamas'' are predatory, alongside the fact sanji almost denied blood transfusion when it was revealed to him the only ones available were okamas.
I sincerely don't understand.
Like I said the using not named Okamas (or at least some of them) as jokes is problematic and I at least have hope that Sanji will be/has been better around Kiku & Yamato
 
The biggest issue potentially for Yamato is that his gender identity is tied to Oden so the worry is that one day Yamato would abandon that but I would say as time has gone on and even with the recent leaked chapter my worry of that has lowered.
For me actually the last page of the new chapter is rasing flags but it can also be read as Yamato Name=Man and has nothing to do with Oden Persona=Man, we will see.

- Reddit people will downvote you if you say Yamato is Male
I thought the One Piece reddit was full on calling Yamato He/Him

Also the translator notes on the new chapter...
:chefkiss
 

Dio

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Oct 25, 2017
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Like I said the using not named Okamas (or at least some of them) as jokes is problematic and I at least have hope that Sanji will be/has been better around Kiku & Yamato
oh, i hope that's true, but my point remains. Bon Clay and Ivankov were excellent, IMO, and then Oda goes the absolute opposite with Sanji. it's baffling.
 

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Oda doesn't make much sense. in one way, he nails characters like ivankov(specially given the inspirations), Bon Clay, and now Yamato, everyone using male pronouns for him, etc.
on the other hand...Sanji as a character with the timeskip, where he basically says ''okamas'' are predatory, alongside the fact sanji almost denied blood transfusion when it was revealed to him the only ones available were okamas.
I sincerely don't understand.

I have not watched past the time skip, but if you feel he’s handling a lot of the material well and Sanji in particular as a character does not, doesnt that leave it open for Sanjis character to have an arc towards acceptance?
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
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I have not watched past the time skip, but if you feel he’s handling a lot of the material well and Sanji in particular as a character does not, doesnt that leave it open for Sanjis character to have an arc towards acceptance?
Whole Cake Island SHOULD have been that.

But Oda thinks Sanji's weird sex pest behavior is hilarious. So he'll never change.
 

Dio

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Oct 25, 2017
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I have not watched past the time skip, but if you feel he’s handling a lot of the material well and Sanji in particular as a character does not, doesnt that leave it open for Sanjis character to have an arc towards acceptance?
maybe? i don't see it happening tho. Has been too long since both the timeskip cover stories and Sanji almost not accepting the blood tranfusion for an acceptance arc to happen, i think
Whole Cake Island SHOULD have been that.

But Oda thinks Sanji's weird sex pest behavior is hilarious. So he'll never change.
also this, probably.
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
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There are but every Yamato thread is filled with constant debates over weither it to be called he, the majority sill referring to Yamato as she
My deep fear is, with the way that Wano keeps playing with people's expectations about allegiances and factions, the big reveal after Luffy's fight with Kaido will be that Yamato was a cis woman all along and the transgender confusion was just a smoke screen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Damn, Arlong Forum is still alive? Used to be a lurker there for finding old fansubs long time ago before N*oG*f.

Correction: And for your topic, I find it very odd that Oda drew Yamato and make him a trangender person, but never mention about him in tweet/social media. It's like as he kept quiet in his existence or something.
 
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I have not watched past the time skip, but if you feel he’s handling a lot of the material well and Sanji in particular as a character does not, doesnt that leave it open for Sanjis character to have an arc towards acceptance?
The final nail in the coffin could be how Sanji interacts with this 2 characters, so we'll see.


make him a trangender person
I don't think we are there yet but it also does not make sense that the Oden = call me a He, is just a cosplay since Kaido calls Yamato son, so eh better probably let Wano finish to see how it settles this.
 
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Lord Azrael

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Oct 25, 2017
6,239
You made a great thread that I fear is going to get overlooked because of your confusingly worded and overly specific title.

Anyway, I'm not ready to give Oda credit for writing a good trans character just yet. Given his horrible track record on gender, I fear that Yamato's usage of masculine pronouns is only tied to his roleplaying of Oden, and that he'll drop them after some sort of "character revelation" moment or whatever. That said, it's promising that other characters are consistently referring to him as male as well, so I'm hopeful.

Arlong Park is way too lenient on bigots. Most of the moderation team and long time members seem fine, but they barely ever ban, even when some really gross rhetoric comes into play.
 

Kyuuji

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Nov 8, 2017
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After the whole trap debacle I’ve come to expect very little from anime fans when it comes to trans topics.
 

Kyuuji

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And for your topic, I find it very odd that Oda drew Yamato and make him an official transgender, but never mention about him in tweet/social media. It's like as he kept quiet on his existence or something.
Just a small note; it should be ‘transgender person’ or ‘trans person’*. We’re not objects :p. An even more simple way of saying it might be “made him officially transgender”.
 

Morlas

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Oct 25, 2017
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Oda's done a great job with Kiku so far so I have hope that Yamato will be handled well in the end as well
 

Cantaim

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Oct 25, 2017
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Assuming Direct Cringe
I've said it in the One Piece OT here and I'll say it again. Everyone who still refuses to call Yamato a man is being extremly childish. There is not a single damn thing in the story at this point that supports the notion of referring to Yamato as anything other then what he is, a man. Literally everyone in the story respects Yamatos decision to identify as a man. Yet still you find people that refuse to actually give a damn and respect Yamato. Oh and before I forget

If you are one of the people that says "well I'm not referring to Yamato as a man because it's really obvious Oda plans to have them reidentify as a woman at the end when they say they can no longer copy Oden." You can do the following
1. Go fuck yourself
2. Learn some tact
3. Fuck off

Don't even have the energy to talk about poor Kiku. The exact second it was revealed she was trans she got thrown into a bigoted shit storm
 

jph139

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Oct 25, 2017
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Oda's relationship with trans characters is... interesting. It's always something I've found kind of strange.

I think he views people who don't conform with their birth gender - whether they're trans, crossdressing, simply effeminate - as the same sort of goofy, socially unacceptable character trait many of his characters have. Usopp is a coward. Luffy is gluttonous. Sanji is a pervert. "They're weird, but there's nothing wrong with being weird, weirdness is great!" It's like, really malicious, per se, but obviously labeling "being trans" as "novelty character trait" is missing the point by a mile.

When Yamato was introduced I didn't read him as a trans character so much as a female taking a male title. There's a lot of historical antecedents for that sort of thing (Hatshepsut, a female pharaoh who wore a beard and male dress, Jadwiga of Poland, who was crowned and ruled as king), women who present/live as women but adopt masculine roles and symbols, and I sort of assumed that there was a Japanese equivalent he was making a reference to. Trans characters with Oda are usually presented as a joke, and Yamato really isn't - like, he's too good of a trans character for me to really "buy it." But that's the thing with Oda - he has a completely different view on gender than I do, and all I can really do is guess at his intentions. Maybe he's just improved his understanding.
 

Kyuuji

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Nov 8, 2017
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Thanks for letting me know. I will edit that part.
Thank you buddy, appreciate that! 😊

True but we should continue to work on this make it a push for better representation
Oh definitely, should push back wherever it crops up. Just to say don’t let it knock you that there are assholes out there. Appreciate the thread even if I lack of a lot of the context to speak to the characters much. The awareness of the topics is still nice to have.
 

convo

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Oct 25, 2017
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There's still the thing of Sir Crocodile implied to have been a woman before meeting Ivankov in the past, even the strong world special chapter showing only the back of their head.
 

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I stopped paying attention to the community because of this ignorant bs. Yamato's a guy, end of story.
 

Rouk'

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Kiku is awesome and Oda has done a great job with her portraying. Yamato has not been around as long, but it seems to me like Oda will also manage to do something good with him.

I'm not sure what can be done to change the anime fandom's huge issue with transphobia. Because apparently, even good & respectful portraying like Kiku's doesn't do it.
Like I've talked to people about Yamato and it seemed to me that they just didn't give a shit. People need to learn empathy or something

Don't even have the energy to talk about poor Kiku. The exact second it was revealed she was trans she got thrown into a bigoted shit storm
Yeah, we could also name some OP youtubers regarding that...
 

convo

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Oct 25, 2017
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Used to be on Arlong Park a lot but that was easily over 10 years ago, at least the one piece podcast crew distanced themselves very early on. Shitty fans are shitty fans, you get these sort of places and avoid them. Bon Clay is a good friend and i won't be budging on that, but you can see how much influence the Rocky Horror Show had on Ivankov and crew. How do people look back on original Rocky Horror Show anyway regarding these issues?
 

Tace

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Nov 1, 2017
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Shift sounds like a terrible person and those forums are a clear dumpster fire. Just looking at those tags makes my blood boil. Why can’t people just accept Yamato is a guy

I have hope that Oda will do right by Yamato, he’s one of my favorite characters to come out of Wano and I feel he’s done a good job with both he and Kiku. Not to say Oda has always knocked it out of the park. There were certainly some more than questionable decisions made in how he choose to portray Bon Clay, Ivankov, and the Okamas but they’ve also had some of the most badass moments in the series.

Needless to say, I think Oda has a lot to prove with how Yamato’s arc plays out
 

Gustaf

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Oct 28, 2017
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My deep fear is, with the way that Wano keeps playing with people's expectations about allegiances and factions, the big reveal after Luffy's fight with Kaido will be that Yamato was a cis woman all along and the transgender confusion was just a smoke screen.
what transgender confusion?

nobody is confused by this, everybone is calling Yamato a man.
 

Luigi87

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Oct 25, 2017
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How sad.

So far Yamato has been a great character, I just hope Oda sticks through with him right to the end.
 

Gustaf

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Oct 28, 2017
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also, the fact that Kaido calls him his son, makes me believe Yamato has always identified himself as male. even when he was little.

because why the fuck would kaido respect Yamato calling himself a man because he is Oden
 

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
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There's still the thing of Sir Crocodile implied to have been a woman before meeting Ivankov in the past, even the strong world special chapter showing only the back of their head.
I'm still not sure about that tbh. I feel like the "weakness" of Crocodile is meant to just be a noodle incident for the audience.
 

Cordy

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Oct 25, 2017
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what transgender confusion?

nobody is confused by this, everybone is calling Yamato a man.
also, the fact that Kaido calls him his son, makes me believe Yamato has always identified himself as male. even when he was little.

because why the fuck would kaido respect Yamato calling himself a man because he is Oden
I'll be the first to say that I didn't pick up on it until I came to Era. I was calling Yamato "her" until someone brought it up in the OT and then I realized that I missed it. It's easy to see from his first mention. I don't even think that's "confusion", that's just me missing things.

But the big difference is that as soon as I reread and saw what it was, I corrected myself, that's all it takes. If it's an easy mistake it's an easy mistake. A problem I've seen a lot of people have online is that even when they see this they keep going the opposite direction because they like it better. It's just weird, I don't get it.
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
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what transgender confusion?

nobody is confused by this, everybone is calling Yamato a man.
Yes, and I'm saying that my fear is that, after introducing two transgender characters with fair features, the third fair featured character referred to as a man will end up being a ciswoman...as a swerve.

Hopefully it won't be the case. I'm just not giving Oda the benefit of the doubt.
 

diakyu

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Dec 15, 2018
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The Oden stuff is very, very, very strange and I wish it was left out of Yamoto entirely because it makes me very concerned as to how the future of the character pans out. I have faith because characters do refer to Yamato as he but my guy needs to get over the Oden stuff, it isn't funny it's concerning

Kiku is dope though
 

convo

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'm still not sure about that tbh. I feel like the "weakness" of Crocodile is meant to just be a noodle incident for the audience.
Someone would have asked about his connection to Invankov in an SBS i guess, it isn't story relevant or anything but some more backstory to an old character and another flashback is always in the cards for Oda.
 

Gustaf

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Oct 28, 2017
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I'll be the first to say that I didn't pick up on it until I came to Era. I was calling Yamato "her" until someone brought it up in the OT and then I realized that I missed it. It's easy to see from his first mention. I don't even think that's "confusion", that's just me missing things.

But the big difference is that as soon as I reread and saw what it was, I corrected myself, that's all it takes. If it's an easy mistake it's an easy mistake. A problem I've seen a lot of people have online is that even when they see this they keep going the opposite direction because they like it better. It's just weird, I don't get it.
i was talking in-story.
 

Cantaim

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Oct 25, 2017
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Assuming Direct Cringe
Kiku is awesome and Oda has done a great job with her portraying. Yamato has not been around as long, but it seems to me like Oda will also manage to do something good with him.

I'm not sure what can be done to change the anime fandom's huge issue with transphobia. Because apparently, even good & respectful portraying like Kiku's doesn't do it.
Like I've talked to people about Yamato and it seemed to me that they just didn't give a shit. People need to learn empathy or something


Yeah, we could also name some OP youtubers regarding that...
I was starting to get into OP youtubers right around the time the Vic stuff hit Funi and as we were entering Wano. I'm really thankful I did so then. In just a few months I was able to wipe my hands clean of all of it. So many toxic and bigoted people there.
 

Odeko

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The fact that there are still people in denial about Kiku and misgendering her after she told Chopper "This one is a woman at heart" when asked about her gender should tell everything you need to know about where these kind of fans are coming from, unfortunately. For Yamato, initially there could conceivably be some plausible deniability and confusion from the reader on how he identifies, but Kiku is so obviously shown to be a trans woman and still a lot of the same people are assholes about it.
 

gundamkyoukai

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Oct 25, 2017
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Like I said the using not named Okamas (or at least some of them) as jokes is problematic and I at least have hope that Sanji will be/has been better around Kiku & Yamato
Sanji has a problem with them but did people forget that they chase sanji around a island for 2 years to strip him and dress him up .
Sanji had been traumatised but i don't see Kiku & Yamato having the same effect since that gag done with all around for a while.
 

Tathanen

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yamato's been a weird one for me cause it's not like Kiku where she basically just says hey I'm a woman, Yamato says "hey I'm Oden." Sure, that absolutely comes along with the implication that he's male, but there's some insane disassociative stuff on top of it there, it kinda trivializes actual trans people by saying "claim you're a different actual person" is the same as "this is your actual gender." It's the attack helicopter bullshit to a point, reducing being trans to "oh just claim you're anything," so I worry a little about using Yamato as a great beacon here, it muddies the water a little.
 

Gustaf

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Oct 28, 2017
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Yamato's been a weird one for me cause it's not like Kiku where she basically just says hey I'm a woman, Yamato says "hey I'm Oden." Sure, that absolutely comes along with the implication that he's male, but there's some insane disassociative stuff on top of it there, it kinda trivializes actual trans people by saying "claim you're a different actual person" is the same as "this is your actual gender." It's the attack helicopter bullshit to a point, reducing being trans to "oh just claim you're anything," so I worry a little about using Yamato as a great beacon here, it muddies the water a little.
yamato just referred himself as yamato, using a male pronoun.