The online mode of Smash Ultimate is even more unacceptable 14 months after its release

Blackquill · Feb 14, 2020

Hey guys ! I just played one hour of Smash Ultimate online with my boy Chrom. Now I hate the game.

I stopped played online for 5 months since I was living abroad and only got to play Smash offline during that time. When I came back, replaying online mode was not even fun anymore, it was an ordeal. Fights that would have been easy to win offline become so difficult online due to the horrendous input lag (which is already not great offline). Zoners are a nightmare to fight. Besides, a lot of these guys have decided to play 3 stocks matchs with a timer of only 4 minutes, why ? Because these people want you to suffer, I guess ? Matchmaking is still a disaster. Some BASIC options don't exist after one full year of patches. About patches, the only thing we got was slighty more accurate matchmaking but it is still not good. Arenas are slighty better but still far from perfect. Global Smash Power still sucks. There are so many things wrong in this online mode that has been pointed out day one and Nintendo doesn't seem to care, I guess releasing another Fire Emblem character makes more money so I don't blame them.

But honestly, the lag. The damn lag, it's just too much. I feel like I don't even play the game sometimes. Like I know the opponent will use a smash attack but the game is just too fucking laggy that I can't react to that and lost too many stocks because of that. I am on ethernet, my connection in other fighting games is great, but still, Smash is a lagfest. I mostly play the game online and it's killing my enjoyement of a, otherwise, really good game. It baffles me how nothing has been done after one year of patches. I am really pessimist for the future since Nintendo seems only to allocate ressources towards developping new characters and doesn't seem to care about the ingame issues. A shame, really.

Deleted member 11626 · Feb 14, 2020

It's amazing just how bad their online is. It has actively killed my interest in playing Smash, and I got into it heavy when it first dropped. I thought there would be some online improvements, but between the absurd lag and the inexcusable lack of options for hosting and joining matches...I don't find myself all that interested. Shit I can't even jump on 2v2 online with my buddy across the country. That's just dumb.

lvl 99 Pixel · Feb 14, 2020

Offline is the only way to play, really.

PedroRVD · Feb 14, 2020

I play from Ecuador. The third world. With garbage internet and offensive ping. Most of my online matches are flawless. I'm on elite smash now.

Gundam · Feb 14, 2020

Smash Ultimate is a good game in spite of the many baffling decisions that were made and continue to be made. It would be unacceptable for any other property.

Jaded Alyx · Feb 14, 2020

Blackquill said:
But honestly, the lag. The damn lag, it's just too much. I feel like I don't even play the game sometimes. Like I know the opponent will use a smash attack but the game is just too fucking laggy that I can't react to that and lost too many stocks because of that. I am on ethernet, my connection in other fighting games is great, but still, Smash is a lagfest. I mostly play the game online and it's killing my enjoyement of a, otherwise, really good game. It baffles me how nothing has been done after one year of patches. I am really pessimist for the future since Nintendo seems only to allocate ressources towards developping new characters and doesn't seem to care about the ingame issues. A shame, really.

Join the rest of the FGC in pleading for rollback netcode in fighting games.

Deleted member 71 · Feb 14, 2020

i'm honestly amazed 14 months later they haven't even found a way to patch local 2 player into battle lounges.

if i have a friend over, all i can do is play with randoms, not with my actual friends.

Grimmjow · Feb 14, 2020

The online in general for the switch is unacceptable.

NateDrake · Feb 14, 2020

I wish they would change the way GSP is handled with Rage Quitters. Why do I not net GSP for winning due to the person quitting? Sure, the person quitting loses some GSP but I guess the effort put into making them rage quit isn't worth a net gain. Stupid.

PlanetSmasher · Feb 14, 2020

Gundam said:
Smash Ultimate is a good game in spite of the many baffling decisions that were made and continue to be made. It would be unacceptable for any other property.

Pretty much. Nintendo knows they can tank the flaws because it's Smash and it's the only one we're getting this generation.

I like most of Ultimate, but man the scars on the experience (like the aforementioned online issues) are really, really hard to ignore.

PMS341 · Feb 14, 2020

I haven't noticed any lag after using the LAN adapter, but I also only play online with people who also have LAN adapters lol.

NotLiquid · Feb 14, 2020

I'll never be able to relate myself since 1v1 has 95% of the time been pretty flawless for me. Only times I play FFA is with my friends and despite being in Sweden from a wired connection while my other pals are across the pond, it's still acceptable enough for casual fun games - not without its lagless moments but not bad enough for me to drop it.

lvl 99 Pixel · Feb 14, 2020

PedroRVD said:
I play from Ecuador. The third world. With garbage internet and offensive ping. Most of my online matches are flawless. I'm on elite smash now.

Even the best case scenario where you're in a lobby vs someone within close proximity you're getting some real input delay by default.

Thats not even beginning to mention how bad the lobby system is compared to other fighters, how awful and meaningless GSP is, and other annoying shit like having to exit the queue and back out to be able to choose a new character, or how 2v2 queue is a total joke because there's no friendly fire.

I have to expect that anyone saying "its flawless" are either being willfully ignorant or genuinely don't know any better.

Choppasmith · Feb 14, 2020

PedroRVD said:
I play from Ecuador. The third world. With garbage internet and offensive ping. Most of my online matches are flawless. I'm on elite smash now.

Yeah the complaints are baffling to me. I'm on WIFI and I'd say 80% of my matches are flawless. Honestly truly don't get the hate.

Xtortion · Feb 14, 2020

Rollback netcode and a proper ranking system would probably lead to Ultimate being in my regular rotation. But as of now, the lag is extremely hit or miss, GSP doesn't give a satisfying sense of progression, and matchmaking can be wildly variable in terms of the rulesets you get. Also doesn't help that you can't matchmake in doubles with an online friend.

ShinobiBk · Feb 14, 2020

There is definitely an input delay, but honestly the lag in general isn't that bad for me. Particularly when playing in arenas it mostly runs well

I will say though that when it lags, it's usually against the most annoying characters. I lost in a tournament to a Lucas that was lagging all over the other day.

HylianSeven · Feb 14, 2020

I honestly have to wonder if I am even playing the same game as everyone else. It's consistently pretty good for me. There's an occasional match were it turns into a lagfest, usually because my connection or my opponent's connection is going bad. There IS a slight amount of input lag, but it's pretty minimal IMO. I play quite frequently and it's a lot of fun.

I will give you the fact that GSP is a weird ass system and doesn't make much sense. My Palutena is in the millions, yet I have been winning a lot of games as Byleth lately and my GSP can't even break 400k.

As for the rules, if I put in something like 5 minute 3 stock, Battlefield and Omega forms only, no items, 1v1, I almost always get either my exact ruleset or something close to it. When the game launched this aspect of it was really bad, as putting in 1v1 would make me end up in 4-man FFAs with items on. They patched this a week or two after the game launched though.

Is it the greatest fighting game netcode or online play ever? Absolutely not, it could definitely use rollback like many others are asking for.

Also for what it's worth, I play on both ethernet and wifi. It's better on ethernet, but the difference between ethernet and wifi for me is incredibly miniscule.

lobdale · Feb 14, 2020

Works pretty great for me almost all the time???

don't kill me

Jorgie · Feb 14, 2020

Get a lan adapter and make a room for only lan adapter people. My games are pretty good when I do that.

PedroRVD · Feb 14, 2020

lvl 99 Pixel said:
Even the best case scenario where you're in a lobby vs someone within close proximity you're getting some real input delay by default.

Thats not even beginning to mention how bad the lobby system is compared to other fighters, how awful and meaningless GSP is, and other annoying shit like having to exit the queue and back out to be able to choose a new character, or how 2v2 queue is a total joke because there's no friendly fire.

I have to expect that anyone saying "its flawless" are either being willfully ignorant or genuinely don't know any better.

I said flawless regarding the connection. Not every match is flawless but I'm very satisfied in that aspect. Yes, the GSP system is bad and the online mode should be more robust and with more incentive to play. I agree with that

Choppasmith said:
Yeah the complaints are baffling to me. I'm on WIFI and I'd say 80% of my matches are flawless. Honestly truly don't get the hate.

I feel exactly the same. Even on Christmas Eve and the days after I had a blast smashing juniors with Kazooie. 🐔

Skel1ingt0n · Feb 14, 2020

Worst online in any game I've played in ten years across every system and on PC.

Completely agreed OP. I'm on gigabit internet with an (exaggerated) ping of just 2ms on Speedtest.net and 1,000 up/down, an Ethernet connection, and a low latency TV.

It still sucks.

I played 60 hrs of Smash the month it came out then dropped it cold turkey and never came back.

New Donker · Feb 14, 2020

Choppasmith said:
Yeah the complaints are baffling to me. I'm on WIFI and I'd say 80% of my matches are flawless. Honestly truly don't get the hate.

same here. The vast majority of my matches are totally fine

DatManOvaDer · Feb 14, 2020

The posts in this thread remind me why we're still so far away from rollback being the standard in online for fighting games.
Depressing.

Papercuts · Feb 14, 2020

Ultimate is a game I really like following and not playing basically due to the online.

Though with the switch and wifi warriors pretty much any online game is going to be rough I guess.

Deleted member 6215 · Feb 14, 2020

Choppasmith said:
Yeah the complaints are baffling to me. I'm on WIFI and I'd say 80% of my matches are flawless. Honestly truly don't get the hate.

20% of my games having issues would be 100% unacceptable to me. This isn't 2004.

Adulfzen · Feb 14, 2020

Unfortunately changing a netcode when a game is already released is extremely hard. Obviously not impossible considering NRS did it with MKX afterwards but iirc it cost them a good amount of money and time.
And the thing is, since it's Bandai Namco developing the game they're probably using the same kind of delay based netcode that they use for all their other fighting games (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) so they're probably even less interested in changing anything.
The only way I see the netcode improving significantly for future titles is if Nintendo getsa another developer to work on it (extremely unlikely atm) or if Bamco does a big shift in the future if enough people complain consistently across all the fighting games they release : Tekken, SoulCal and Smash (obviously excluding FighterZ because it's ArcSys making it and using their own brand of delay based netcode)

Deleted member 197 · Feb 14, 2020

Ever since i got an adapter my matches are as flawless as delay-based online can get i guess, it doesn't feel that different to me from other experiences i have had in the past, of course it would be great if they implemented rollback but i don't see that happening.

The lack of options are kinda baffling though, at least give us squad strikes arenas.

lvl 99 Pixel · Feb 14, 2020

Papercuts said:
Though with the switch and wifi warriors pretty much any online game is going to be rough I guess.

local wi-fi matches somehow have terrible lag

MegaRockEXE · Feb 14, 2020

If I recall, GSP is just a ranking of your ratio of wins to losses. So by now, the best of the best should have numerous wins and very few losses and a great ratio of those as well. I assume it would be hard to get through the ranks now.

Arenas are where it's at. Connection is usually very consistent, you can repeatedly fight an opponent, and there's nothing at stake.

Avis · Feb 14, 2020

I got Ethernet recently for this as well and it made it better, but it still mostly sucks. Fighting laggy Byleths is the worst.

But honestly, I've never cared that much about connection - only the occasional game it becomes a massive issue.
The MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger issue it the entire way the online is played. Quickplay it literally hell, full of people playing on dumb stages with dumb rules. There is no casual/ranked type options like in every other competitive online game conceived in the modern era. WHY WHY WHY???? If you had an enforced 3 stock BF/FD option then you could be extension semi-enforce Best Of Three, a change which made Street Fighter 5 FAR more enjoyable to me, and based on the (very) few times I've been able to get people to do it here, it would also improve this experience as well.

Battle Arenas are better but then I gotta A) go in blind against people who could either be wayyyy above or below my skill level and B) wait for other people to play before I get a chance to.

dralla · Feb 14, 2020

Yea it's a huge bummer. The game is so damn laggy even when I play people in my own neighborhood. And the lobby system in general is needlessly cumbersome and annoying. And not being able to play online with two people on one Switch is a joke. I would've played the game so much more if the online was better.

HylianSeven · Feb 14, 2020

MegaRockEXE said:
If I recall, GSP is just a ranking of your ratio of wins to losses. So by now, the best of the best should have numerous wins and very few losses and a great ratio of those as well. I assume it would be hard to get through the ranks now.

Arenas are where it's at. Connection is usually very consistent, you can repeatedly fight an opponent, and there's nothing at stake.

GSP is actually just how many more people you are ahead of. It's a really weird system that just changes meaning as more and more people buy the game.

Jaded Alyx · Feb 14, 2020

More people need to dump on Bandai Namco in general when it comes to fighting game netplay. They're behind some of the biggest fighting games out there.

lvl 99 Pixel · Feb 14, 2020

Avis said:
Battle Arenas are better but then I gotta A) go in blind against people who could either be wayyyy above or below my skill level and B) wait for other people to play before I get a chance to.

Your best bet is to use your local scenes Discord group to organize games.
People always saying "I never get put in games outside my preferred rules and it doesn't lag" are obviously playing in regions with a lot of people queuing.

dralla said:
And not being able to play online with two people on one Switch is a joke.

I mean you can.... you have the broken co-op mode lmao. Being unable to do lobbies with 2 local is just baffling.

ZeroCDR · Feb 14, 2020

Choppasmith said:
Yeah the complaints are baffling to me. I'm on WIFI and I'd say 80% of my matches are flawless. Honestly truly don't get the hate.

It's these kinds of posts that makes it harder to convince Nintendo/Namco or otherwise that rollback netcode is a great investment.

Your online battles are not flawless when your buttons have any sort of input delay. It's always there, to varying degrees, but it's there. AND IT SUCKS. Don't settle.

zoodoo · Feb 14, 2020

Dropped the game hard after trying the online. Once i was done with the single player content, there was noting else for me to do. The online is awful

Everywhere · Feb 14, 2020

[Nintendo game]'s online mode is unacceptable.

100% expect Animal Crossing to be the next victim.

lvl 99 Pixel · Feb 14, 2020

Everywhere said:
100% expect Animal Crossing to be the next victim.

In terms of functionality maybe, but at least there's no PvP type interaction. Mario Kart might be their best because of how the game works.

giancarlo123x · Feb 14, 2020

This would be the greatest ever if the online wasn't so fucking bad. Its unplayable at times.

Hybrid Rainbow · Feb 14, 2020

zoodoo said:
Dropped the game hard after trying the online. Once i was done with the single player content, there was noting else for me to do. The online is awful

This was me. I can't get out to local tournaments like I used to do I wanted to play online. LOL NOPE.

WhiteRabbitEXE · Feb 14, 2020

I feel like the people who are saying it works perfectly are the people whose point of perspective is just other Nintendo Online games. Like, sure, it works fine, next to Mario Kart DS.

Giga Man · Feb 14, 2020

NateDrake said:
I wish they would change the way GSP is handled with Rage Quitters. Why do I not net GSP for winning due to the person quitting? Sure, the person quitting loses some GSP but I guess the effort put into making them rage quit isn't worth a net gain. Stupid.

I'm-a be honest, and I don't mean to put you down, I'm surprised anyone cares about Global Smash Power. It's the most mundane and irrelevant feature ever introduced in Smash.

Rodney McKay · Feb 14, 2020

I think I've only played Smash online once to try it out.

When it was slow and laggy I said "yup, still bad" and just went back to playing it as a single player fighter.

BlakeofT · Feb 14, 2020

I love the game but I just can't play it because of how awful the online is. Occasionally I get a match that isn't a stutterfest, but they're just too rare. Need to meet some people near me that like playing it...

Jaded Alyx · Feb 14, 2020

lvl 99 Pixel said:
In terms of functionality maybe, but at least there's no PvP type interaction. Mario Kart might be their best because of how the game works.

I'd give it to Arms because it's a fighting game which often has 4 players involved and it's somehow a very competent attempt compared to many others.

Aswitch · Feb 14, 2020

Tried to play with Byleth recently and man. Just painful overall. I think at least incorporating connection information of whether the opponents have a wired connection or not would help a ton so you can deny playing against them. At the very least, they could patch that in to help factor that out of the equation of connection quality issues.

Jaded Alyx · Feb 14, 2020

Aswitch said:
Tried to play with Byleth recently and man. Just painful overall. I think at least incorporating connection information of whether the opponents have a wired connection or not would help a ton so you can deny playing against them. At the very least, they could patch that in to help factor that out of the equation of connection quality issues.

They'd never do it. That would mean "exposing" and ostracizing everyone playing on a Switch Lite.

Atom Heart Mother · Feb 14, 2020

I've never had any horrible problems with Smash Uti's online but the one thing that pisses me off is how online lobbies are handled. You have to back out of the 'arena' to switch out your character. You can't watch unless you step in the waiting area or spectators. You can't have banned stages or legal stages. It's such an annoying process.

I'm playing with 4 people. Friend vs me is up. Friend wants to switch characters, so he backs out. Person automatically is pushed into the ring. Maybe accidentally presses start. Have to hold B to quit it. Then the friend who switched wants to come in, the friend in the arena has to get out. But someone else joins automatically. So we need to clear the queue just so one guy can return because he wanted to switch characters. It's fucking annoying.

Pyro Iguana · Feb 14, 2020

PedroRVD said:
I play from Ecuador. The third world. With garbage internet and offensive ping. Most of my online matches are flawless. I'm on elite smash now.

Im from ecuador too (guayaquil) and i would REALLY want to know what you did to get "Most of my online matches are flawless", im on fiber (Netlife), most games i get around 80-110ms internationally, have an ethernet adapter, and i just cant get any decent match on smash, 1 on 10 maybe and with lag spikes, unless you only are playing with other ecuadorians exclusively i just cant believe that.

BTW when i played mk11, with friends is flawless, and randoms was mostly decent (thank you rollback).

NotLiquid · Feb 14, 2020

WhiteRabbitEXE said:
I feel like the people who are saying it works perfectly are the people whose point of perspective is just other Nintendo Online games. Like, sure, it works fine, next to Mario Kart DS.

For a delay based game, Ult works about the way I expect it to work. I'm not so naive to assume my experience with the game is the way it is for everyone but it's far from the worst online in a fighting game I've ever experienced, let alone worst in a Bamco game.

Maybe it's just a region thing, I unno, but I've played enough fighting games both online and off to recognize how the game compares to others.

The online mode of Smash Ultimate is even more unacceptable 14 months after its release

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