The Orville S2 |OT| Discover the Art of Opening Pickle Jars - Thursdays at 9 EST

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,283
The message that erasing your own pain isn't a good idea, and that you should accept that it helped make you who you are-- that's a good message. The idea that Ed is somehow worthy of all this attention doesn't work. They've never really sold the idea of him being exceptional.
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,560
Thought that was a meh ass episode. Maybe the low point of the season.

The message that erasing your own pain isn't a good idea, and that you should accept that it helped make you who you are-- that's a good message. The idea that Ed is somehow worthy of all this attention doesn't work. They've never really sold the idea of him being exceptional.
I don't think it was really that he was all that great, it's just him not being in the right place caused a chain reaction. They literally say the doctor and her sons made the change in Isaac and she was only there because she knew she would be needed because Ed likely sucked. That's kind of the opposite of him being so great.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,356
I think my issue with the show and it's pretty blatant mimicry of the older Trek shows is that TV as a form of entertainment has come a really long way since the time of TNG, Voyager and so on. I know people really love that aspect of the show but the shows were filled with hokey writing, really dumb plot ideas and often really poor execution. This kind of stuff stands out as especially awkward in The Orville with its amongst slavish devotion to recreating that style of show, warts and all, especially considering how far genre stuff like scifi and space shows have come in the decades since.
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,560
I think my issue with the show and it's pretty blatant mimicry of the older Trek shows is that TV as a form of entertainment has come a really long way since the time of TNG, Voyager and so on. I know people really love that aspect of the show but the shows were filled with hokey writing, really dumb plot ideas and often really poor execution. This kind of stuff stands out as especially awkward in The Orville with its amongst slavish devotion to recreating that style of show, warts and all, especially considering how far genre stuff like scifi and space shows have come in the decades since.
I think it depends on what you come to it for. I have never watched any Star Trek(other than the newer movies), but I tried Discovery and just thought it was ok, but didn't really grab me. With this show it pulled me in with the characters and the more personal stories. I was able to look past and not care about the hokey stuff because I liked what it was doing with the characters while it was still having interesting and sometimes fun stories. It didn't take itself too seriously, and I feel like that sort of thing is definitely underrepresented in TV today, where all the other stuff is pretty plentiful.
 

metsallica

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,817
Felt very Star Wars. Not a bad thing, but strange. Lots of cringey dialogue too. Still, it was fine overall but I'm definitely hoping that wasn't the end. Season 2 was wonderful.
 

jb1234

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
I'm still not done with the finale, but I'm kind of bummed at how they've basically turned Lamar into the deus ex machina or exposition character. He basically seems like he's there just to give the random science solution to whatever issue is bothering them.
The actor is really poor. I think they Mayweathered him.
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,040
I see I'm not the only one disappointed with the finale. In retrospect, I wish the female Moclan episode was the finale. At least there wasn't some big cliffhanger or anything, which feels like they knew renewal is unlikely. Here's hoping for a season 3.
 

LiQuid!

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,982
Gonna be really gutted if this show get cancelled. Hoping Seth has enough clout at Fox to get a few more seasons out of his fanfic pet project cause I really care about these characters. I can't help but shake the feeling that the finale was meant to be kind of an emotional payoff for the Ed and Kelly drama in the event they don't get renewed though and that's a pretty sad thought.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,843
Places
Felt very Star Wars. Not a bad thing, but strange. Lots of cringey dialogue too. Still, it was fine overall but I'm definitely hoping that wasn't the end. Season 2 was wonderful.
Yup, early in the episode I said that to my wife. The music was in your face John William's, the scavengers, astroid belts, the way the camera was used all of it.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,758
Ha, I thought it felt a bit Star Wars-y at times too, the asteroid field chase, the music, the old shitty ship with everyone bundled into a glass cockpit like the Falcon. Also the jelly guy who's name I misspell looking out the door like Jabba's palace.

Episode was predictable (I even guessed it in this thread last week) and was hoping for an additional twist but we knew where it needed to end so was only so much they could do.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,235
lol the music cues really were from Star Wars. The moment when they're rescuing the Orville is very Horner-esque too.

Any they really just mined Voyager this time, although I think it ended as weakly as the original with it being a complete reset.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,400
yeah I share most of the sentiment here regarding the episode, I was tuned out by the time they left Alara (which I was thinking, it would have been cool to include her in the final about time travel and low and behold she shows up) at least they set it up as a decent series final if we don't get another season but overall this season was mostly the same as season 1, more TNG rehashes with worse characters. Still I enjoy it enough so I hope we get at least a few more seasons. Average Sci-fi is still sci-fi lol

Edit: Oh and they completely misunderstood black holes lol
 
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Dr Doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,635
The surround sound was good in this.
Orville powering up... the creaking sounds makes you feel like you’re in there.

We never got a Lamar centric episode. I wonder why.

Finale was ok. Also I’m good if that was the series finale. That ending was fitting



I think my issue with the show and it's pretty blatant mimicry of the older Trek shows is that TV as a form of entertainment has come a really long way since the time of TNG, Voyager and so on. I know people really love that aspect of the show but the shows were filled with hokey writing, really dumb plot ideas and often really poor execution. This kind of stuff stands out as especially awkward in The Orville with its amongst slavish devotion to recreating that style of show, warts and all, especially considering how far genre stuff like scifi and space shows have come in the decades since.
I’ve never seen a Star Trek Episode in full. I thought they were boring when I was a kid.

Star Trek Discovery was my first Trek series and also Orville.

Both have good writing which keeps me engaged. Orville has comedy and light hearted episode. Discovery has serious action.
 

EdReedFan20

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,509
If The Orville is cancelled by Fox, I hope Disney (now that they own the series) brings it over to Disney+.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,611
Came in here to say latest episode felt like a homage to Star Wars OT, music and all, but I was beaten by everyone in the thread lol.
 

ThLunarian

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,265
This was a fine episode of television. The plot was coherent and some characters received development.

The two major problems were 1) the character development is rendered irrelevant - which is minor - and 2) this wasn't sci fi. There was no exploration of moral ambiguity other than a throwaway line by Kelly about being an awful person. This was a heist episode, which is out or character for this series and that's why it felt off.

Unfortunate that this was the season, and possibly series, finale.
 

inguef

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
14,664
Why is this better than Star Trek? It shouldn't be this good. One of the first episodes in S2 did disturb me though, how the main character talks to his ex.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,725
So does anyone make/anywhere sell good models of the ships from this? In particular the Orville itself?
I've seen some self-assembly unpainted resin kits, but I was hoping for something more along the lines of the Eaglemoss Star Trek models.
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,040
So does anyone make/anywhere sell good models of the ships from this? In particular the Orville itself?
I've seen some self-assembly unpainted resin kits, but I was hoping for something more along the lines of the Eaglemoss Star Trek models.
I've looked around and haven't found anything. It's such a great design.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,329
didnt realize Season 2 ended not too long ago. Just binge watched S1 and S2. This was a damn fun show. I know that many waved it off at the beginning because of Seth Macfarlane and some of the humor, but that actually was what called out for me. I was all in from S1. I liked the humor. And yes while the show got objectively better in S2 when the humor dial was toned down, the occasional light hearted funny scene was still greatly appreciated. I mean come on, an episode dedicated to porn viruses lmao, that was fun as hell.

As someone who has not watched Star Trek, particularly TNG which is held in such high regard, and is aware this show borrows quite a bit from that not only in its basic premise but in episodes as well... I gotta ask for those who watched it prior to the Orville and like both. How dated is TNG for someone like me who would now go back to watch it having only watched Star Trek through pop culture parodies, shows that were influenced by it, and now The Orville which many say is a copy of TNG (and already a star trek copy)?

While shows being dated is not a deal breaker, it might turn me off a little bit if the show is a little bit too straight/serious and doesn't have fun.
 

jb1234

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
didnt realize Season 2 ended not too long ago. Just binge watched S1 and S2. This was a damn fun show. I know that many waved it off at the beginning because of Seth Macfarlane and some of the humor, but that actually was what called out for me. I was all in from S1. I liked the humor. And yes while the show got objectively better in S2 when the humor dial was toned down, the occasional light hearted funny scene was still greatly appreciated. I mean come on, an episode dedicated to porn viruses lmao, that was fun as hell.

As someone who has not watched Star Trek, particularly TNG which is held in such high regard, and is aware this show borrows quite a bit from that not only in its basic premise but in episodes as well... I gotta ask for those who watched it prior to the Orville and like both. How dated is TNG for someone like me who would now go back to watch it having only watched Star Trek through pop culture parodies, shows that were influenced by it, and now The Orville which many say is a copy?

While shows being dated is not a deal breaker, it might turn me off a little bit if the show is a little bit too straight/serious and doesn't have fun.
I wouldn't describe TNG as especially dated. It has the advantage of a very shiny HD remaster and its practical effects hold up very well today. Unlike most shows today, it's largely episodic with limited serialization but then, so is the Orville (although the latter show is a little more attentive to character growth). TNG can be humorous but it's handled in a more subtle, character-centric way, as opposed to Orville's punchlines. In its prime (S3-S6), TNG is without question the better show. It has better worldbuilding and far stronger dramatic episodes. Check it out, although I'd rely on an episode guide for the first two seasons, which range from bad (S1) to okay (S2).
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,329
I wouldn't describe TNG as especially dated. It has the advantage of a very shiny HD remaster and its practical effects hold up very well today. Unlike most shows today, it's largely episodic with limited serialization but then, so is the Orville (although the latter show is a little more attentive to character growth). TNG can be humorous but it's handled in a more subtle, character-centric way, as opposed to Orville's punchlines. In its prime (S3-S6), TNG is without question the better show. It has better worldbuilding and far stronger dramatic episodes. Check it out, although I'd rely on an episode guide for the first two seasons, which range from bad (S1) to okay (S2).
cool thanks. I'll see where TNG is available to stream, if not I'll try to find blu rays on the cheap. By episode guide do you mean see recommended episodes to skip for the first two seasons? I'm normally OK with skipping episodes in episodic shows, but would I miss any season-wide plotlines or character development? I would assume these lists take this into account if that's the case.

edit: jesus christ some of these episode guides straight up ask you to skip like more than 2/3rds of S1 and S2 lmao. Are the episodes really so bad and so disconnected that I am not going to miss say character interactions that build up their relationships and things of that sort?
 
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Br3wnor

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,663
Gonna be really gutted if this show get cancelled. Hoping Seth has enough clout at Fox to get a few more seasons out of his fanfic pet project cause I really care about these characters. I can't help but shake the feeling that the finale was meant to be kind of an emotional payoff for the Ed and Kelly drama in the event they don't get renewed though and that's a pretty sad thought.
Yeah, I agree. It was such a standalone episode for the most part that it could easily work as a series finale. Really really hope that’s not the case but ultimately it actually wrapped the series up the best you could wrap a show up after only 2 seasons.

I imagine the budget is more than your average show but I don't know the economics behind everything I would just think MacFarlane would have enough clout at Fox to allow him a pet project as long as it’s not losing money. What I really appreciate is how much you can tell MacFarlane cares about this show and the reverence he has for Star Trek.
 

jb1234

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
cool thanks. I'll see where TNG is available to stream, if not I'll try to find blu rays on the cheap. By episode guide do you mean see recommended episodes to skip for the first two seasons? I'm normally OK with skipping episodes in episodic shows, but would I miss any season-wide plotlines or character development? I would assume these lists take this into account if that's the case.
Nah. There are very, very few of those in TNG. It's pretty self-contained, with a few exceptions later in the run. It was made during a time when syndication and reruns were extremely important so producers didn't want to make episodes that had too many serialized elements.

You'll be able to find it on most streaming services (Netflix, Amazon, etc).
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,329
Nah. There are very, very few of those in TNG. It's pretty self-contained, with a few exceptions later in the run. It was made during a time when syndication and reruns were extremely important so producers didn't want to make episodes that had too many serialized elements.

You'll be able to find it on most streaming services (Netflix, Amazon, etc).
Sounds good. I found a list from reddit that seems to break down episodes as completely avoid it, those that are just boring/meh, those that only should be watched just for fun, and the ones you should engage with for sure. And it's a bit more forgiving than the other lists at least when you take into the percentages that you should and could watch vs those you should entirely avoid.

It'll be weird going back to a show that is so self contained after such a long time, but why the hell not, means I don't have to necessarily pay attention to every little detail.
 

jb1234

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
Sounds good. I found a list from reddit that seems to break down episodes as completely avoid it, those that are just boring/meh, those that only should be watched just for fun, and the ones you should engage with for sure. And it's a bit more forgiving than the other lists at least when you take into the percentages that you should and could watch vs those you should entirely avoid.

It'll be weird going back to a show that is so self contained after such a long time, but why the hell not, means I don't have to necessarily pay attention to every little detail.
Can you link that list? I'm curious, haha. And also, correction. It's only on Amazon with a CBS All-Access subscription. That makes me worry that it won't be on Netflix for much longer.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,329
Can you link that list? I'm curious, haha. And also, correction. It's only on Amazon with a CBS All-Access subscription. That makes me worry that it won't be on Netflix for much longer.
Sure
https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/wiki/algernonguide_tng

I like how they give a little breadown of the ep so even if like 30% of the S1 episodes he claims are 'meh' I could always read it to see if there are a few there I might want to have even in the background

For what it's worth it's on Hulu, which is where I watched Orville. So I lucked out.
 

jb1234

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
Sure
https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/wiki/algernonguide_tng

I like how they give a little breadown of the ep so even if like 30% of the S1 episodes he claims are 'meh' I could always read it to see if there are a few there I might want to have even in the background

For what it's worth it's on Hulu, which is where I watched Orville. So I lucked out.
Yeah, this list is mostly fair. Maybe a little too fair for the first two seasons, haha. But you'll definitely get the gist if you watch the "Engage" and "Just for fun" eps. A couple of the "Avoids" are arguable but I suppose that's the case for any personalized list. ;)

Unfortunately, for some reason, Hulu hasn't replaced their SD copies with the new HD remasters so the episodes look pretty bad.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,329
Yeah, this list is mostly fair. Maybe a little too fair for the first two seasons, haha. But you'll definitely get the gist if you watch the "Engage" and "Just for fun" eps. A couple of the "Avoids" are arguable but I suppose that's the case for any personalized list. ;)

Unfortunately, for some reason, Hulu hasn't replaced their SD copies with the new HD remasters so the episodes look pretty bad.
lmaaao just read that.

Are you sure about the CBS All-Access for TNG on Prime? I don't know if it's only for the new Picard show, but I am looking through TNG on my Prime and it sais seasons 1-7 included with Prime. Even tried streaming ep 1 without issues.
 

jb1234

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
lmaaao just read that.

Are you sure about the CBS All-Access for TNG on Prime? I don't know if it's only for the new Picard show, but I am looking through TNG on my Prime and it sais seasons 1-7 included with Prime. Even tried streaming ep 1 without issues.
Yup, you're right. My mistake. My VPN was apparently interacting badly with the Amazon website.
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
Protip: Code of Honor (the most controversial season 1 episode by far) is a decent episode if you only listen to the audio and therefore avoid the unfortunate racial implications.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,758
Protip: Code of Honor (the most controversial season 1 episode by far) is a decent episode if you only listen to the audio and therefore avoid the unfortunate racial implications.
I'd say it's worth watching just for how bad it is.

It's also the episode used for the TNG preview on Netflix UK, I think someone at Netflix is laughing to themselves.
 

LiQuid!

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,982
Every time I see this thread bumped I'm anxious for news of renewal or cancellation. Why is Fox fucking with my mental health?
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,329
Huh. Apparently next week is when we find out if shows as a whole aren't coming back from channels? Don't know how reliable that Google news story that appeared on my feed was.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,400
Season 2 was rough (mostly the same issues as Season 1) but I'm glad it's back, hopefully they start telling their own stories a little more.
 

BrokenFiction

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,248
ATL
Oh good! Season 3 should be the massive jump in quality then, if it completely with no flaw in my logic whatsoever follows The Next Generation/DS9 formula.
 

LiQuid!

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,982
Between all 5 prior Trek shows, the Stargates and whatever else, I think any story will have something to compare to.
Also those shows are all like 30 years old at this point. There is nothing wrong with retreading some of the same ground IMO. Hell it's practically all Hollywood does nowadays, and there's nothing else like Trek/Orville on network television right now.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,758
Also those shows are all like 30 years old at this point. There is nothing wrong with retreading some of the same ground IMO. Hell it's practically all Hollywood does nowadays, and there's nothing else like Trek/Orville on network television right now.
Oh I agree, redoing a similar idea is fine, just putting a new idea or spin on it is fine, as well as outcome. Trek has done it to itself even.

One thing I do like is that Orville doesn't always end with the happy or neutral outcome, it not afraid to end on the shitty one.