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The PC Builders Thread ("I Need a New PC") v2

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Is the general consensus that air cooling is fine or better than liquid (AIO) coolers for ryzen?
I don't think there ever will be any kind of consensus in the air vs aio debate.
But yes, air cooling is absolutely fine for ryzen.

In general, high end air coolers, like the NH D15 or Dark Rock Pro 4 can challenge 240mm AIOs, even outperform some of them.
360mm+ AIOs will still beat any current air cooler though.

If you are looking for a modern, powerful and strong air cooler: Take a look at Noctuas "new" NHU12A. It's a small beast of a cooler, only 1-2°C behind the classic D15. Impressive performance for its size.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
2,732
Is the general consensus that air cooling is fine or better than liquid (AIO) coolers for ryzen?
Yes, I have decided that air-cooling is better.

Price/Performance you are absolutely losing with AIO, but the $120+ 280/360mm units have both performance and acoustics advantages. However, if you don't OC your CPU (even 3950X) beyond the auto, you are fine with even cheaper air coolers. Intel CPU going beyond 5Ghz produce a lot of heat and cooling becomes a limiting factor, where Ryzens don't OC too well and their own architecture is a bottleneck.

You get much better mouting options with AIO, no worry about the height or RAM clearance. On the other hand, air cooler heatsinks are eternal, where AIO mechanical pieces will wear out in 5 or 7 years.

You are not unlocking any extra power, you are not pro-longing your CPU lifecycle and you are not saving money purchasing AIO for 3700X.
 

shodgson8

Member
Aug 22, 2018
378
Have an i7 3960x (LGA 2011 Sandy Bridge) with a 1080ti
Is a Ryzen 7 3700x a big enough upgrade?
Always subjective when asking if something is a 'big enough' upgrade however despite being a strong CPU it is also pretty old now. Have you looked to see if you are being bottlenecked by the CPU in whatever you are playing / doing?

I believe that in gaming you would see less of a difference than rendering. Overall from reading some synthetic benchmarks scores the single core performance is probably around 50% better while multi core you are looking at a 100%+ increase with the 3700x.

Is the general consensus that air cooling is fine or better than liquid (AIO) coolers for ryzen?
Completely depends on who you ask but I massively prefer air cooling over AIO.

I have a Noctua D15-s which has moved from PC to PC over the last few years. It's huge but I have never had the slightest issue with it from using it on OC'd i5's, i7's & now the Ryzen 3600 which maxes out at 67 degrees.
 
Dec 6, 2017
533
I don't think there ever will be any kind of consensus in the air vs aio debate.
But yes, air cooling is absolutely fine for ryzen.

In general, high end air coolers, like the NH D15 or Dark Rock Pro 4 can challenge 240mm AIOs, even outperform some of them.
360mm+ AIOs will still beat any current air cooler though.

If you are looking for a modern, powerful and strong air cooler: Take a look at Noctuas "new" NHU12A. It's a small beast of a cooler, only 1-2°C behind the classic D15. Impressive performance for its size.
Yes, I have decided that air-cooling is better.

Price/Performance you are absolutely losing with AIO, but the $120+ 280/360mm units have both performance and acoustics advantages. However, if you don't OC your CPU (even 3950X) beyond the auto, you are fine with even cheaper air coolers. Intel CPU going beyond 5Ghz produce a lot of heat and cooling becomes a limiting factor, where Ryzens don't OC too well and their own architecture is a bottleneck.

You get much better mouting options with AIO, no worry about the height or RAM clearance. On the other hand, air cooler heatsinks are eternal, where AIO mechanical pieces will wear out in 5 or 7 years.

You are not unlocking any extra power, you are not pro-longing your CPU lifecycle and you are not saving money purchasing AIO for 3700X.
Always subjective when asking if something is a 'big enough' upgrade however despite being a strong CPU it is also pretty old now. Have you looked to see if you are being bottlenecked by the CPU in whatever you are playing / doing?

I believe that in gaming you would see less of a difference than rendering. Overall from reading some synthetic benchmarks scores the single core performance is probably around 50% better while multi core you are looking at a 100%+ increase with the 3700x.



Completely depends on who you ask but I massively prefer air cooling over AIO.

I have a Noctua D15-s which has moved from PC to PC over the last few years. It's huge but I have never had the slightest issue with it from using it on OC'd i5's, i7's & now the Ryzen 3600 which maxes out at 67 degrees.

I have a hyper 212 on my 2500k and a H70 on my 3570k, both seemed fine. The 212 has been running for 10 years at 4.5ghz, I'm just new to AMD and from my limited knowledge thought they ran a lot warmer than Intel chips. I have no problem with air cooling, but I like the lower noise and aesthetic of a closed loop cooling solution. Wasn't sure if closed loop could keep up with the heat from Ryzen (stock speeds). I was considering the Cooler Master ML204L and running the front fans on the Phantek p400a case. I think the case comes with 3 120mm rgb fans.

If that's not a great solution, which air cooler is the go to that isn't an eyesore monstrosity that the 212 was lol? Dark Rock Pro 4 doesn't look bad, appreciate the black cooler.

Planning on this ram if that makes a difference, whic it doesn't appear that it would, looks like short ram.
 
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Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
I have a hyper 212 on my 2500k and a H70 on my 3570k, both seemed fine. The 212 has been running for 10 years at 4.5ghz, I'm just new to AMD and from my limited knowledge thought they ran a lot warmer than Intel chips. I have no problem with air cooling, but I like the lower noise and aesthetic of a closed loop cooling solution. Wasn't sure if closed loop could keep up with the heat from Ryzen (stock speeds). I was considering the Cooler Master ML204L and running the front fans on the Phantek p400a case. I think the case comes with 3 120mm rgb fans.
Very good case choice imo, unluckily some of those big, dual tower CPU air coolers won't be able to fit. An AIO makes sense there imo.
There are two versions of the case, only the "digital" comes with the three fans. But maybe I remember incorrectly.

For noise levels, all I can say is that the NH-D15 is more quiet than the Crosair H100i in my second (kid) PC. Tested it as a potential upgrade in my own system and... no that one is way to loud for me. The kids can suffer though ;)

About Ryzen getting hot: There is a lot of misinformation out there, paired with old AMD FX-9590 memories. Those new Ryzen 3000 CPUs are pretty good from a temperature perspective and easy to tame. Even those stock coolers are good enough.
For example: I'm getting ~69°C during CB20 on my 3900x, with a D15. That's not bad for 12 cores.
 
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Dec 6, 2017
533
Very good case choice imo, unluckily some of those big, dual tower CPU air coolers won't be able to fit. An AIO makes sense there imo.
There are two versions of the case, only the "digital" comes with the three fans. But maybe I remember incorrectly.

For noise levels, all I can say is that the NH-D15 is more quiet than the Crosair H100i in my second (kid) PC. Tested it as a potential upgrade in my own system and... no that one is way to loud for me. The kids can suffer though ;)

About Ryzen getting hot: There is a lot of misinformation out there, paired with old AMD FX-9590 memories. Those new Ryzen 3000 CPUs are pretty good from a temperature perspective and easy to tame. Even those stock coolers are good enough.
For example: I'm getting ~69°C during CB20 on my 3900x, with a D15. That's not bad for 12 cores.
I may just get the Dark Pro cooler, if it fits, to keep the build simple. Seems like people are able to turn the fan speeds down to reduce noise with that cooler and it still manages to keep everything cool.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,653
I have a PC already but I want to digitise some music - ideally keeping it digital from a minidisc player. Is there a good optical-> USB adapter anyone can recommend?
 
Feb 1, 2018
282
Hey everyone, looking to make my PC a little quieter. Anyone know of any good guides/starting points? I currently have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo on my Intel 9700K and it's not the quietest. I'm assuming water cooling has advance massively since I last used it in 2004 haha.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,465
Hey everyone, looking to make my PC a little quieter. Anyone know of any good guides/starting points? I currently have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo on my Intel 9700K and it's not the quietest. I'm assuming water cooling has advance massively since I last used it in 2004 haha.
My tip for a quiet PC is quality fans that provide good airflow under 1000rpm.

All in One liquid coolers or big air cooler both benefit from it. But I think in your situation a premium air cooler would be good enough, unless there is space constrains since most of the top models are around 160mm tall and have clearance issues with tall ram sticks.

Water cooling is sometimes the only very quiet option for very power hungry systems, but water cooling is not quieter at the 9700K range, or the "mainstream range" to put it that way, than the really big tower coolers with quiet 140mm fans like the beQuiet Dark Rock Pro 4 that is being talked about above, and the Noctua NH-D15, or some other coolers of that $90 range like Thermalright Le Gand Macho, and Deepcool Assassin III.

If the Hyper 212 is too noisy and you have room for a 160mm+ tall cooler I would say that's the easiest fix. Mind you brands like beQuiet and Noctua also have smaller cooler that are also quieter than the hyper 212, but their quietest coolers are the ones with 140mm fans because the sheer size of the heatsinks passively dissipating heat on their own allows the fans to spin slower.
 

catpurrcat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,326
Can any of you guys recommend a laptop for light office work? Something with a really good screen. Doesn’t have to be super light but it’s for an older person so screen quality matters, as does wifi reliability and 100% must have an SSD. Budget around $1000 USD.
 

kirbyfan407

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,842
Just to provide an update to those who remember my previous posts:

After the most recent Nvidia GPU driver update, my computer stopped crashing upon startup. This lasted four different startups, but today, it finally crashed again. I haven't made any software changes since the GPU update, so I don't know what changed between now and the previous last crash and why it stopped crashing at all. As a result, I'm at a bit of a loss and a bit disheartened, but I'll keep thinking through it.
 

filkry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
Got some memory back from RMA and it was still failing memtest at 3200Hz (the rated speed). I guess I'm just going to turn off XMP for now and live with the 5% performance loss, maybe investigate "overclocking" it to 2800 or so some time in the future.
 

catpurrcat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,326
Just to provide an update to those who remember my previous posts:

After the most recent Nvidia GPU driver update, my computer stopped crashing upon startup. This lasted four different startups, but today, it finally crashed again. I haven't made any software changes since the GPU update, so I don't know what changed between now and the previous last crash and why it stopped crashing at all. As a result, I'm at a bit of a loss and a bit disheartened, but I'll keep thinking through it.
Have you tried to run your PC with the motherboard bios at default settings? i.e., clear CMOS and let it run with minimum defaults. Also, are the crashes occuring after a fast-startup/sleep/hiberation wake up ?

There's a few similar suggestions in this Nvidia forum thread. Someone posted here: "Using a well rated EVGA Gold 850W PS, and yes the problems 'seem' to have resolved again."
 

catpurrcat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,326
Is the general consensus that air cooling is fine or better than liquid (AIO) coolers for ryzen?
Having used both, on two different ryzen builds, from stock, to air cooler to AIO, the main pros of the AIO were near silence, aesthetics and ease of install. The AIO was significantly more expensive - on sale - versus a mid-range air cooler. The AIO temps are averaging 6-11% lower than the mid-range air cooler. Not very big difference.

To be totally frank, I prefer the AIO for aesthetics and noise, as you can find comparable air coolers that can lower the temps.
 

catpurrcat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,326
Hey everyone, looking to make my PC a little quieter. Anyone know of any good guides/starting points? I currently have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo on my Intel 9700K and it's not the quietest. I'm assuming water cooling has advance massively since I last used it in 2004 haha.
I missed your post above, as my recent response to another member may be useful for you:

Having used both, on two different ryzen builds, from stock, to air cooler to AIO, the main pros of the AIO were near silence, aesthetics and ease of install. The AIO was significantly more expensive - on sale - versus a mid-range air cooler. The AIO temps are averaging 6-11% lower than the mid-range air cooler. Not very big difference.

To be totally frank, I prefer the AIO for aesthetics and noise, as you can find comparable air coolers that can lower the temps.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,280
Yokohama, Japan
Just to provide an update to those who remember my previous posts:

After the most recent Nvidia GPU driver update, my computer stopped crashing upon startup. This lasted four different startups, but today, it finally crashed again. I haven't made any software changes since the GPU update, so I don't know what changed between now and the previous last crash and why it stopped crashing at all. As a result, I'm at a bit of a loss and a bit disheartened, but I'll keep thinking through it.
Guess what. After going about a month without any issues, the problem came back for me two days ago upon bootup. BIOS screen thingy showed and everything and then video signal went away and the PC locked up before reaching the sign in screen lol. Just our luck, huh?
 

kirbyfan407

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,842
Have you tried to run your PC with the motherboard bios at default settings? i.e., clear CMOS and let it run with minimum defaults. Also, are the crashes occuring after a fast-startup/sleep/hiberation wake up ?

There's a few similar suggestions in this Nvidia forum thread. Someone posted here: "Using a well rated EVGA Gold 850W PS, and yes the problems 'seem' to have resolved again."
I've actually never put my computer into sleep mode, so each start has been a fresh one. However, I can test putting it to sleep and resuming it a few times and report back. Reading that thread, though, I see comments that perhaps Windows is actually lying to me and I've never really turned off my computer if this Fast Startup mode is on by default for new computers. That would be INCREDIBLY fascinating and might actually explain why my computer works every time I hard shut it off (i.e. holding the power button because it crashed) and crashes every time I turn it on from being "off" (when it was always just actually asleep). Because perhaps something with the "Fast Startup" function is actually incompatible with my system and that's why it has been crashing (though one time it did crash after I hard shut it off, but that's only been once). And wait a second...I used to physically turn off the PC by hitting my PSU switch but stopped doing that at some point when I learned how to turn off my RAM RGBs. Has my computer been prone to crashing from the start but I only discovered this after I stopped hitting my PSU switch? Can you sense the light bulbs going off?! Maybe I'm getting excited over nothing, but I'm so appreciative that at least I have this lead to test next time I use my desktop!

I think I have a direction! I'm going to look to see how I can reset my BIOS to run at default settings (though I don't think I've done much to change it, if anything) and disable Fast Startup and see what happens! I'm also going to test regular "sleep" and see what happens then.

Thanks for giving me these ideas! Even if they don't work, I have something to try rather than dumbly staring at my Event Viewer again as if I actually know how to understand what I'm reading. :)

Guess what. After going about a month without any issues, the problem came back for me two days ago upon bootup. BIOS screen thingy showed and everything and then video signal went away and the PC locked up before reaching the sign in screen lol. Just our luck, huh?
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I'm going to test the above and hope it works for me. I hope we both find a solution soon!
 

PtKid69

Member
Nov 23, 2017
145
Does anyone know or have an idea of when the Asus ROG XG279Q monitor is released in the UK? Overclockers have it for pre order but can’t confirm an ETA. Tried to contact Asus but no answer as per usual.
 
Dec 6, 2017
533
Having used both, on two different ryzen builds, from stock, to air cooler to AIO, the main pros of the AIO were near silence, aesthetics and ease of install. The AIO was significantly more expensive - on sale - versus a mid-range air cooler. The AIO temps are averaging 6-11% lower than the mid-range air cooler. Not very big difference.

To be totally frank, I prefer the AIO for aesthetics and noise, as you can find comparable air coolers that can lower the temps.
I think I've settled on the Noctua NH-U12A air cooler. It's a rip off, but I keep my pc's for a long time, so I don't mind spending a little more on cooling. The only thing I'm on the fence on is the aesthetics, I like the brown and beige, and at the same time think it looks silly in pc's with RGB fans lol. Decided air over aio due to simplicity and after spending way too much time researching found the temp differences between the two to be negligible (both being high quality units). And it seems like the NH-U12A is pretty small for it's performance, and quiet.
 

RandomDazed

Member
Oct 27, 2017
591
I would appreciate some real world opinions on the Corsair Force MP600 Gen4 M.2 SSD (1TB specifically) if anybody bought one to be used alongside a X570 Mobo / Ryzen 9 3950X build.

I'm specifically interested in real world gaming performance.

I can see from some reviews that it's actually slower in games than the Sammy 970 Pro 1 TB NVMe M.2

So for a X570 Mobo / Ryzen 9 3950X build, which would be used for games (mostly) and web (when not gaming) what do people think?
 

SayemAhmd

Member
Dec 3, 2019
45
Got some creeping buyers remorse with the 2070 Super with the ampere rumours coming out. Really don't know if I should just return the card and get a cheapo 970 or something on ebay to tide me over in the meantime.
 

selfnoise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
502
It's not a good value if you are mostly gaming. Games aren't very demanding on SSDs and there isn't even a big performance delta between SATA and MVMe drives when measuring game load times.
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,494
I would appreciate some real world opinions on the Corsair Force MP600 Gen4 M.2 SSD (1TB specifically) if anybody bought one to be used alongside a X570 Mobo / Ryzen 9 3950X build.

I'm specifically interested in real world gaming performance.

I can see from some reviews that it's actually slower in games than the Sammy 970 Pro 1 TB NVMe M.2

So for a X570 Mobo / Ryzen 9 3950X build, which would be used for games (mostly) and web (when not gaming) what do people think?
Those are beneficial if you are rendering video or similar file copying operations. Games dont care much about sequential speed that is all these early gen4 ssds do. Their controller is mediocre actually but its the only one out there and it barely even takes advantage of pcie4. It is a waste of money.

For applications, os and similar, random read matters and that is still within sata speeds, let alone pcie3.
 

TronLight

Member
Jun 17, 2018
626
Ram question for a 3700x system. Which one to buy?



Same timings and speed, the HyperX costs 20€ less than the G.Skill, I really don't care about RGB lights and I'm not going to overclock anything in my pc (I'm just going to turn on XMP to get the 3200mhz speed). Which one would you pick? Is HyperX a good brand? Is the model good? I know GSkill is quite good, I have GSkill RAM in my PC now and never had a problem in 8 years, and I've seen this model in pretty much every tech video since they came out.
 
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bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,430
Got some creeping buyers remorse with the 2070 Super with the ampere rumours coming out. Really don't know if I should just return the card and get a cheapo 970 or something on ebay to tide me over in the meantime.
You can always, always wait for the next gen. Alternatively, you can buy the best you can now and enjoy it, then when something better comes along you can reassess. The only time it's really worth waiting is just before a new gen launches, but Ampere is a way off yet.
 

SayemAhmd

Member
Dec 3, 2019
45
You can always, always wait for the next gen. Alternatively, you can buy the best you can now and enjoy it, then when something better comes along you can reassess. The only time it's really worth waiting is just before a new gen launches, but Ampere is a way off yet.
My last full build was a 2500k, paired with a 660Ti, before settling on a 970. So, I guess my big bugbear is that I can't just sit and be like "okay, I am good for the next few years" cos RTX is still in its infancy, and Nvidia have been in a bit of a funk and performance has stalled, but eh. The 2070 Super is a good card, think the sensible option is to wait for now.
 
Dec 6, 2017
533
My last full build was a 2500k, paired with a 660Ti, before settling on a 970. So, I guess my big bugbear is that I can't just sit and be like "okay, I am good for the next few years" cos RTX is still in its infancy, and Nvidia have been in a bit of a funk and performance has stalled, but eh. The 2070 Super is a good card, think the sensible option is to wait for now.
I'm in the same situation, i'm holding on to my gtx 1080, in hopes RTX 3000 brings some big improvements.

Anyone have recommendations for a 1440p 27" gsync monitor? I'd use it for photo/video editing and gaming, so I'd imagine IPS is the way to go.
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,430
My last full build was a 2500k, paired with a 660Ti, before settling on a 970. So, I guess my big bugbear is that I can't just sit and be like "okay, I am good for the next few years" cos RTX is still in its infancy, and Nvidia have been in a bit of a funk and performance has stalled, but eh. The 2070 Super is a good card, think the sensible option is to wait for now.
2070 is a good card and will serve you well for the foreseeable future. It won't become any less capable just because a new card is launched, so if it's good enough today it'll be just fine whenever Ampere arrives.

As I say, you can wait forever for the next big thing but at some point you have to either shit or get off the pot. If I needed a new card today then I'd rather have a 2070 that I could enjoy for the next few years than wait however long for the Ampere equivalent, assuming that a) it was significantly better and b) decent value for money.

Worst comes to the worst and Ampere arrives tomorrow and is blazingly fast and cheap: you sell your 2070 and buy whatever replaces it, taking a financial hit. But if the Ampere equivalent of the 2070 doesn't turn up for several months, or isn't significantly faster or better value, then at least you have a really good card to enjoy right now.
 

shodgson8

Member
Aug 22, 2018
378
As I say, you can wait forever for the next big thing but at some point you have to either shit or get off the pot.
100% this. It’s a bit of a bugbear of mine how many people are saying to wait right now...for potentially months and months.

Ultimately we have zero idea on the performance of new cards and zero idea when they will actually launch. Everything is just based upon rumours (often inflated).

There is always something new and better around the corner whether it’s Zen 3 or Ampere or whatever comes after.
 

Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,735
Toronto
I tried to wait for the 3000 series cards for my next build, but the wait just is too long (my gut guess at release is August 2020) and there's so many great PC games coming out in the first half of this year that I just went for the 2070 Super. Card is great and will be great even with the 3000 cards are out.

I figure I'll sell it for a 4000 series card when those come out in 2 1/2 years. There no reason a 2070 Super wouldn't be a great card for that amount of time and more. Now the rest of my build is all updated and good to go for next gen (3800x, x570 board, 32gb of RAM, 3tb of SSD space, etc) and whenever I want to upgrade again I'll only need to upgrade the GPU.
 

zerocalories

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,440
100% this. It’s a bit of a bugbear of mine how many people are saying to wait right now...for potentially months and months.

Ultimately we have zero idea on the performance of new cards and zero idea when they will actually launch. Everything is just based upon rumours (often inflated).

There is always something new and better around the corner whether it’s Zen 3 or Ampere or whatever comes after.
i know its a non-starter because people have different budgets, but this is why i opt to go for any xx80ti right when it comes out.
 

shodgson8

Member
Aug 22, 2018
378
Are free game promos with a new GPU no longer a thing now? Seems like prices for a 2070 Super haven't budged at all either.
They seem to come and go. I got Control and Wolfenstein last summer but I don’t think there’s anything right now. AMD seem to be giving out game pass subs with their CPU’s

i know its a non-starter because people have different budgets, but this is why i opt to go for any xx80ti right when it comes out.
If you can afford it then why not! 1080ti was an amazing deal if you picked it up early.