• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Oct 25, 2017
1,809
I am trying to do 144hz / 1440p gaming - can a Nvidia RTX 2070 Super handle that at high settings (w/ a Ryzen 3600)? Or can I even go a bit lower on the GPU scale to achieve this? Thanks.
Heavily depends on the game and the settings you're going for.
I'm gaming at 1440p120 with a 2070S.
I can play most at 1440p120, but I cap some games like RDR2 or MHW to 60 fps, because I want to aim for the highest settings with perfect frampacing (via RTSS).
 

Deleted member 35478

User-requested account closure
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
1,788
My 27" LG 27GL83A got delivered and I set it up yesterday, my goodness have I been missing out. Wish I purchased a new monitor years ago, been using a 27" 1080p TN panel 60hz, so moving to 1440p and G-sync is amazing. I can see the IPS glow in a dark room, and the bottom left corner is brighter than the rest of the panel.. But I've seen much worse from IPS panels, monitors and tv's, so it is what it is. Fortunately it's not that big of an issue since bottom left is usually where a lot of hud elements are, so dark image detail being lost from the brighter portion isn't a big deal, can see the HUD perfectly fine. Regardless, there is panel variance, so panel lottery and all that. Setup was a breeze, full G-Sync compatibility from what I can tell, plug and play during my experience. In Modern Warefare and Battlefield 5 in game all I had to do was set the new monitor resolution and 144hz refresh rate, and good bye tearing, hello smoothness. Overall contrast appears to be ok, par for the course for an IPS display. Color accuracy seems decent out of the box, set to Gamer 1. Motion handling is very smooth, haven't noticed any overshoot, set to Fast setting, so I'm leaving the settings at the factory defaults. PC has a 3700x and GTX 1080 SC.
 

Canklestank

Member
Oct 26, 2017
762
My 27" LG 27GL83A got delivered and I set it up yesterday, my goodness have I been missing out. Wish I purchased a new monitor years ago, been using a 27" 1080p TN panel 60hz, so moving to 1440p and G-sync is amazing. I can see the IPS glow in a dark room, and the bottom left corner is brighter than the rest of the panel.. But I've seen much worse from IPS panels, monitors and tv's, so it is what it is. Fortunately it's not that big of an issue since bottom left is usually where a lot of hud elements are, so dark image detail being lost from the brighter portion isn't a big deal, can see the HUD perfectly fine. Regardless, there is panel variance, so panel lottery and all that. Setup was a breeze, full G-Sync compatibility from what I can tell, plug and play during my experience. In Modern Warefare and Battlefield 5 in game all I had to do was set the new monitor resolution and 144hz refresh rate, and good bye tearing, hello smoothness. Overall contrast appears to be ok, par for the course for an IPS display. Color accuracy seems decent out of the box, set to Gamer 1. Motion handling is very smooth, haven't noticed any overshoot, set to Fast setting, so I'm leaving the settings at the factory defaults. PC has a 3700x and GTX 1080 SC.

If you've never read this, this is the general best practices for G-sync setup for the best experience and least amount of input lag. Just fyi 😉

blurbusters.com

G-SYNC 101: Optimal G-SYNC Settings & Conclusion | Blur Busters

Many G-SYNC input lag tests & graphs -- on a 240Hz eSports monitor -- via 2 months of testing via high speed video!
 

Kiyoshi

Member
Apr 4, 2018
109
How's this card? I notice it's cheaper than most other 5700XTs? is there a reason why?

XFX RX 5700 XT 8GB GDDR6 Thicc II PRO 3xDP HDMI PCI-E Graphics Card RX-57XT8PFD6 https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B083R1XR31/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_cv4HEbGKBBXHD

It's awful. Throw it into Google and have a look, and you'll see some scathing YouTube videos and articles. I think they resolved some of the problems with the revised Thicc III but this is cheap to shift stock I'd expect.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
Anyone else run into this issue?

Put together an R5 2600/B450 build recently for VR. Updated BIOS the other day, everything seemed fine. But Shutting Down the PC just made it restart. Odd. Some searching suggested turning off Windows' "Fast start" option under Power settings. Suggesting restarts are a sign of a crash causing it to reboot.

I didn't see anything in Event Viewer > System that suggested a crash. But changing that setting seemed to work - at least for the first time shutting down.

I know the BIOS has a fast boot option, but I didn't change the default either before or after updating. Not like booting from an NVMe's gonna be slow either way.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,570
Can somebody recommend me a cpu cooler for a 3700x that is available at microcenter? Going to order from them and pick up next week so Im just getting everything through them
 

Nothing

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,095
They'll be worse. Manufacturing isn't going to be firing on all cylinders, and even when it is they are never able to keep up at launch. Supply and demand.
Perhaps for brand new models. Right now the shelves are lined with products that nobody is buying. And when the new GPUs and CPUs come out, look out. There will be some good discounts to be had on older stuff.

If these companies want to keep playing games, raising the bar for pricing (Nvidia), or pushing back product launches then people are simply going to buy used and buy previous years' models. Many people already ignore X570 boards for the most part; they aren't needed. Supply and demand indeed. People's wallets don't care that "the price of flash memory is getting more expensive". This stuff is all optional. Plus there will be consoles to compete with come November.

Sure, they can raise the prices. Then no one will buy. I've been to Microcenter this week; it's a ghost town.
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,377
Can somebody recommend me a cpu cooler for a 3700x that is available at microcenter? Going to order from them and pick up next week so Im just getting everything through them

Its a 3700X....nigh literally anything will work unless you are planning some crazy overclock.
Go with the Wraith Prism.
maxresdefault.jpg
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,377
So the wraith prism comes with the cpu as the stock cooler. But people on here have told me I need a different cooler because it's too loud or something?

The main complaint is that it ramps up and down with CPU frequency and can get audible.

But its performance is sound.

Looking at the microcenter site, a Hyper 212 isnt much better than a Prism and then jumping up to 90+ dollars for a noctua to cool a 3700X doesnt make much sense.
I would keep the Prism and order something elsewhere to actually get an upgrade to my cooling solution.

THe Mugen 5 is pretty much the first real upgrade to the Prism thats worth it and its what I would get. If i was going quiet a bequiet Dark Rock 4 or Shadow Rock 3.
The Fuma 2 is also an absolute beast of the cooler for the price.

But it seems all those coolers arent on the microcenter site.
From the site theres nothing I would get.

And I mean seriously look how good this looks:
build-amd-ryzen-3700x-computer-07.jpg
 

Nikokuno

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Jul 22, 2019
761
Throw your stock cooler away, it's making way too much noise. The hyper 212 is at least quiet, that's still a win, was my cooler on my previous build (i5-4460), and I regret that I didn't buy an aftermarket cooler for the 3700X. I recommended the Dark Rock 4 to my brother when he upgraded to a 3700X, it's literally silent, quite a shock.
 
Last edited:

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,570
Throw your stock cooler away, it's making way too much noise. The hyper 212 is at least quiet, that's still a win, was my cooler on my previous build (i5-4460), and I regret that I didn't buy an aftermarket cooler for the 3700X. I recommend the Dark Rock 4 to my brother when he upgrade to a 3700X, it's literally silent, quite a shock.
So much conflicting information! Lol. I am really dreading installing the cpu and cooler, I feel like I am going to get super pissed.
 

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
17,906
Will a Ryzen 7 3700X be pretty decent for the foreseeable future? I'll most likely be gaming at 1080p, I should add.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,471
So much conflicting information! Lol. I am really dreading installing the cpu and cooler, I feel like I am going to get super pissed.
Microcenter being a requirement is what complicates things since it seem on my end like they only have Noctua coolers all at $90+ regardless of model and a few variations of the Cooler Master Hyper 212. The 212 would already be better than the Wraith Prism and quieter, but since they are selling it for $40 that brings you close in price to some $50 Thermalright and Scythe coolers that would simply outperform the hyper 212 in every scenario.

That said, getting a 212 for $40 sure beats the idea of paying $90 for a NH-U12S .
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,570
Microcenter being a requirement is what complicates things since it seem on my end like they only have Noctua coolers all at $90+ regardless of model and a few variations of the Cooler Master Hyper 212. The 212 would already be better than the Wraith Prism and quieter, but since they are selling it for $40 that brings you close in price to some $50 Thermalright and Scythe coolers that would simply outperform the hyper 212 in every scenario.

That said, getting a 212 for $40 sure beats the idea of paying $90 for a NH-U12S .
I guess I could order the cooler separate. The consensus seems to be the deep rock 4? Is it a PITA to install?
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,471
I guess I could order the cooler separate. The consensus seems to be the deep rock 4? Is it a PITA to install?
Dark Rock 3 and Dark Rock Pro 3 were very infamous for it, but for the 4th models be Quiet! redesigned the mounting kit, which is similar to what other brands use, and it is a lot easier than version 3.

edit: That doesn't mean all of the coolers with a 3 in the end have the old design and all cooler with a 4 the new one, that's just for the Dark Rock and Dark Rock Pro. Their newest cooler, Shadow Rock 3, uses the new design.
 
Last edited:

Raydonn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
919
How's this card? I notice it's cheaper than most other 5700XTs? is there a reason why?

XFX RX 5700 XT 8GB GDDR6 Thicc II PRO 3xDP HDMI PCI-E Graphics Card RX-57XT8PFD6 https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B083R1XR31/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_cv4HEbGKBBXHD
It's awful. Throw it into Google and have a look, and you'll see some scathing YouTube videos and articles. I think they resolved some of the problems with the revised Thicc III but this is cheap to shift stock I'd expect.
I can't believe how expensive they still are...
However, if you really wanted an 5700xt and are willing to pay around that price, this one is your best bet:

Mike's Computer - Sapphire Pulse 5700XT - $539.99 - It also comes with two free games, so that's a plus.
 

Nothing

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,095
Microcenter being a requirement is what complicates things since it seem on my end like they only have Noctua coolers all at $90+ regardless of model and a few variations of the Cooler Master Hyper 212. The 212 would already be better than the Wraith Prism and quieter, but since they are selling it for $40 that brings you close in price to some $50 Thermalright and Scythe coolers that would simply outperform the hyper 212 in every scenario.

That said, getting a 212 for $40 sure beats the idea of paying $90 for a NH-U12S .
I've been enamored ever since I saw this brand new Corsair A500 high-end air cooler on the shelves at Microcenter. Pretty nifty if you are already in the Corsair ecosystem of peripherals like case and keyboard.

corsair-a500-fans.jpg


www.tomshardware.com

Corsair Returns to Air Cooling with A500 CPU Heatsink and Launches Updated AIOs

Corsair dips its toes back into the world of the full CPU air tower with this latest dual-fan CPU heatsink capable of chilling CPUs up to a 250W TDP

Amazon.com: Corsair A500 High Performance Dual Fan CPU Cooler, CT-9010003-WW: Computers & Accessories

Buy Corsair A500 High Performance Dual Fan CPU Cooler, CT-9010003-WW: CPU Cooling Fans - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.newegg.com

CORSAIR A500 High Performance Dual Fan CPU Cooler - Newegg.com

Buy CORSAIR A500 High Performance Dual Fan CPU Cooler, CT-9010003-WW with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

It has detachable sliding fan enclosures so that you can raise one slightly if you need more room for RAM clearance.
 

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
17,906
OP
OP
Crazymoogle

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Asia
I've been enamored ever since I saw this brand new Corsair A500 high-end air cooler on the shelves at Microcenter. Pretty nifty if you are already in the Corsair ecosystem of peripherals like case and keyboard.

It has detachable sliding fan enclosures so that you can raise one slightly if you need more room for RAM clearance.

While the slide is easily better than the cheap metal clips used on all other CPU coolers today, the A500 is getting absolutely destroyed in reviews for an uneven contact plate and subpar thermals. It earned a hard no from both Hardware Canucks and Gamers Nexus, which is kind of impressive in the failboat category. Hell, HC did a second mod episode to sand it down and try adding a third fan, and it still was a fail.

It's also barely part of the Corsair ecosystem; there is no RGB support. So everyone is sadly better off roughing it with the clips and getting any better air cooler out there. Hyper 212, Mugen 5, Dark Rock 4 series, whatever.
 

Branson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,768
So this might be a wide question and I kinda hate doing that, but I'm looking to upgrade my storage on my PC. I'm currently only running a 500gb Samsung SSD with the OS and some games and stuff on it. As you can imagine, in this world of 80 to 100gb games....that size kinda sucks.

I was mainly looking towards being SSD only from now on but knowing what we know now from the next gen consoles I dont really know what to do now. I want more storage and love the speed from my current SSD but I wonder if that would be money wasted with possibly faster options coming with the new consoles and its better to wait.

Anyway, im open to suggestions on current storage options as im out of the loop as to what to look for. HDDs are fine I guess but I really wanted to stick with SSDs even though they are more expensive.
 

MrH

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,995
So this might be a wide question and I kinda hate doing that, but I'm looking to upgrade my storage on my PC. I'm currently only running a 500gb Samsung SSD with the OS and some games and stuff on it. As you can imagine, in this world of 80 to 100gb games....that size kinda sucks.

I was mainly looking towards being SSD only from now on but knowing what we know now from the next gen consoles I dont really know what to do now. I want more storage and love the speed from my current SSD but I wonder if that would be money wasted with possibly faster options coming with the new consoles and its better to wait.

Anyway, im open to suggestions on current storage options as im out of the loop as to what to look for. HDDs are fine I guess but I really wanted to stick with SSDs even though they are more expensive.

I mean I paid £80 for a 1TB m.2 SSD, they're so cheap now I just don't see the point in even considering a HDD. Worst case scenario you use it for storage in the future when the next gen SSDs hit, which probably won't be for awhile.
 
OP
OP
Crazymoogle

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Asia
So this might be a wide question and I kinda hate doing that, but I'm looking to upgrade my storage on my PC. I'm currently only running a 500gb Samsung SSD with the OS and some games and stuff on it. As you can imagine, in this world of 80 to 100gb games....that size kinda sucks.

I was mainly looking towards being SSD only from now on but knowing what we know now from the next gen consoles I dont really know what to do now. I want more storage and love the speed from my current SSD but I wonder if that would be money wasted with possibly faster options coming with the new consoles and its better to wait.

Anyway, im open to suggestions on current storage options as im out of the loop as to what to look for. HDDs are fine I guess but I really wanted to stick with SSDs even though they are more expensive.

While it's possible that games over the next few years adapt to SSD advantages more and more, the bottom common denominator for a long time, at *best* will be PCIe 3.0x4, since that seems to be at/better than what Xbox Series X announced. So don't worry about the PS5 stuff as you (a) probably don't have the budget and (b) we have yet to see anything that would take advantage of the massive bandwidth and (c) even if something did appear, you would be too busy enjoying most of those massive improvements on a gen3 NVMe anyways.

So what you need to find out is if you have an M.2 slot on your motherboard, and if the slot is SATA or NVMe.

For best performance you should aim for a PCIe 3.0x4 NVMe drive, that uses TLC, such as the HP ex950 or ADATA SX8200 Pro. The Samsung 970 series is the "best" but also by far the most expensive. You want to solve space, and that means space over speed.

If your budget is limited and you want to aim for "now", the Crucial P1 1TB is a great option. It's slower (QLC, not TLC) but for games today thats not a big deal. But if you want 2TB generally only the higher performance drives are available at that size (such as ex950).
 

Branson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,768
While it's possible that games over the next few years adapt to SSD advantages more and more, the bottom common denominator for a long time, at *best* will be PCIe 3.0x4, since that seems to be at/better than what Xbox Series X announced. So don't worry about the PS5 stuff as you (a) probably don't have the budget and (b) we have yet to see anything that would take advantage of the massive bandwidth and (c) even if something did appear, you would be too busy enjoying most of those massive improvements on a gen3 NVMe anyways.

So what you need to find out is if you have an M.2 slot on your motherboard, and if the slot is SATA or NVMe.

For best performance you should aim for a PCIe 3.0x4 NVMe drive, that uses TLC, such as the HP ex950 or ADATA SX8200 Pro. The Samsung 970 series is the "best" but also by far the most expensive. You want to solve space, and that means space over speed.

If your budget is limited and you want to aim for "now", the Crucial P1 1TB is a great option. It's slower (QLC, not TLC) but for games today thats not a big deal. But if you want 2TB generally only the higher performance drives are available at that size (such as ex950).
Ok awesome thanks. Im a bit out of the loop on it since I built my pc almost 2 years ago or so. My MoBo says it has a dual M.2 socket 3 type M so I assume that works for the M.2 drives you said?
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Crazymoogle

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Asia
Ok awesome thanks. Im a bit out of the loop on it since I built my pc almost 2 years ago or so. My MoBo says it has a dual M.2 socket 3 type M so I assume that works for the M.2 drives you said?

Actually, no. It tells me you have dual M.2 slots, and that they may be SATA or NVMe, but not which one. What's your motherboard?
 
OP
OP
Crazymoogle

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Asia
Microcenter being a requirement is what complicates things since it seem on my end like they only have Noctua coolers all at $90+ regardless of model and a few variations of the Cooler Master Hyper 212. The 212 would already be better than the Wraith Prism and quieter, but since they are selling it for $40 that brings you close in price to some $50 Thermalright and Scythe coolers that would simply outperform the hyper 212 in every scenario.

That said, getting a 212 for $40 sure beats the idea of paying $90 for a NH-U12S .

I backup the opinion that if you're not particularly bothered by noise (you just want a PC upgrade, but noise wasn't a defining problem for you) then the 3700X Wraith Prism is just fine. It actually competently cools and you save some money. So MazeHaze honestly just go with the basics for now. And the Meshify C is not a tiny case so it's not like the fan will be aimed right at an exhaust.

Of course, the Hyper 212 is an upgrade, mainly because a 120mm fan is always going to outperform a 90mm fan and be quieter at the same time. But every youtube review I can find suggests the Wraith Prism is totally fine for most users on the 3700X.
 
OP
OP
Crazymoogle

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Asia

Wow, that is a fairly expensive looking board for it's day. Drives me nuts how ASUS saves money by covering the IO but not integrating the shield though.

You have two M.2 sockets, one supports NVMe or SATA, the other supports NVMe only. So you're solid. I'll write a quick primer on SSDs but basically, my advice holds. If you just want space, go QLC NVMe or M.2 SATA. If you want some speed, you need TLC. Your board is too old for PCIe 4.0 but don't worry - those ones are incredibly expensive and Intel hasn't even shipped a board supprting them yet.
 

Branson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,768
Wow, that is a fairly expensive looking board for it's day. Drives me nuts how ASUS saves money by covering the IO but not integrating the shield though.

You have two M.2 sockets, one supports NVMe or SATA, the other supports NVMe only. So you're solid. I'll write a quick primer on SSDs but basically, my advice holds. If you just want space, go QLC NVMe or M.2 SATA. If you want some speed, you need TLC. Your board is too old for PCIe 4.0 but don't worry - those ones are incredibly expensive and Intel hasn't even shipped a board supprting them yet.
Ill look over my options and think about what I want here. I just needed a little guidance on what to look out for and knowing my board probably helps direct me lol. Thanks a lot. I was going to upgrade my PC in the next year or two depending on world events anyway. When the dust from Next Gen settles and we know what ports are going to take to run I guess.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
I wish more cases built taller rather than deeper. Like the Meshify C, but even taller. I'd love to have a case that could fit a 360mm rad in the front and still have an optical drive above it (I rip Blu-rays). So few cases even support optical slots these days though. The Define 7 is just too deep, I'd be wasting so much space. The rest are either too huge or too poorly designed.

I often wish I could just custom design a case and have someone build it. No one makes the case that I really want. I'd pay just about any price for it.
 
Last edited:
SSD Guide
OP
OP
Crazymoogle

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Asia
SSD Guide
Modern PC SSDs have a few specs you need to be aware of before you purchase. (Don't worry, it's easier than it sounds!)
  • INTERFACE: SATA (old), NVMe (new)
  • SIZE: 3.5" (big), 2.5", M.2 (tiny)
  • FLASH: QLC (slow/cheap), TLC, SLC (fast/expensive)
  • CACHE: Does it have its own RAM?
Q: Can my PC use an SSD?
As long as it's not 15+ years old, yes. Every motherboard today has "SATA" ports, which are basically data plugs meant for hard drives. Worse case, you can buy an SSD supporting that plug. Even the PlayStation 4 supports SSDs using this method.

If you absolutely want an M.2 NVMe because it's awesome/small/fast, but don't have the slot, you can buy an M.2 adapter card that plugs into any PCIe 3.0/4.0 slot. This will allow you to add 1-2 M.2 NVMe drives of your choosing. (But usually this cannot be booted from.)

Q: What size of SSD should I buy?
For this, you need to look at the website or manual of your motherboard because there are a few specs out there:
  • SATA (2.5"): As I said above, you undoubtedly have a SATA port. If your case has a spot to install a 2.5" drive, that means you can buy a 2.5" SSD. It's the slowest and oldest of SSDs, but it does work. Just remember you need to have a SATA cable and a SATA power cable for it to work.

  • M.2 (SATA): Most motherboards in the last 5 years (or more) support M.2, a tiny standard where the SSD is so small it's literally a stick that plugs into the motherboard. No cables. The older M.2 slots still use SATA, meaning if you plug in an M.2 SATA drive, one of your SATA ports will be disabled.

  • M.2 (NVMe): The modern standard. NVMe is a protocol specifically for SSDs that communicates as if it's a PCIe card. NVMe cards are easily the fastest, and this is the protocol used by PS5/XSX. M.2 cards do require a tiny standoff and screw, which should come with your motherboard accessories (if not, look on amazon...) Since they are so tiny and cableless, they are the easiest to install.
Q: What speed of SSD should I buy?
This is a bit trickier. There are basically 5 products on the market currently (2020):
  • INTERFACE: SATA (slowest) > PCIe 3.0 > PCIe 3.0x4 > PCIe 4.0
    Why PCIe? NVMe communicates like a PCIe card, so it uses PCIe speeds. As of April 2020, only AMD X570 motherboards and the PlayStation 5 support PCIe 4.0. Intel only supports up to PCIe 3.0x4 and might not support 4.0 until 2021. 4.0 offers massive boosts in bandwidth (5-8GB/s) but you won't notice this different (yet) in gaming.

  • CACHE: Any decent SSD uses a RAM cache to maximize lifetime and reduce latency. However, some new (2019/2020) cheap SSDs are starting to appear that are "DRAMless", using part of the SSD itself as a cache. Avoid these if at all possible; the latency hit is severe.

  • FLASH: The storage chips themselves. Basically to make SSDs affordable, manufacturers went from 1 bit per cell (SLC) to 2 bits (MLC) to 3 bits (TLC) and finally 4 bits (QLC). Every time they do this, you get more storage, but lifetime and speed get cut severely. Currently most "performance" SSDs are TLC and "cheap" SSDs are QLC.

    If you hear about "3D", well, that's the other solution. Most modern SSDs stack layers of MLC/TLC on top of each other. (64, 96, 128 microscopic layers tall). Samsung's VNAND does exactly this, sidestepping the whole QLC problem.
So given all of this, there are basically these classes available today from cheapest to most expensive:
  1. DRAMless QLC: new, dirt cheap, bad performance, 2.5" or M.2 form factors, avoid.
  2. 2.5" SATA: old drives, mostly going out of the market, although the Samsung 860 Evo hangs around.
  3. QLC + DRAM (Sabrent Rocket Q) The "slowest" of the fast, but still good. Avoid the Intel 660p if possible.
  4. TLC + DRAM (HP ex950, ADATA SX 8200 Pro) 3.0x4 drives with great performance.
  5. Samsung VNAND (970 EVO, 970 Pro) The best of 3.0x4 but very expensive.
  6. PCIe 4.0 (AORUS Gen 4) The fastest today, but double the price of 3.0x4 and games can't use it yet.
Linus Tech Tips did a blind test for today's games (2019/early 2020) and found no noticeable difference between SATA 2.5" and PCIe 4.0 in terms of initial load and overall experience. Benchmarks slow a slight advantage up the scale, but not enough to be noticeable without the numbers in front of you. Professional apps clearly favor NVMe. tl;dr?
  • Budget minded gamers should opt for 2.5" SATA or QLC+DRAM. Crucial P1, 860 EVO, etc.
  • Perf/pro app gamers should opt for TLC drives. ex950, SX8200 Pro, etc.
  • In general I won't recommend the Samsung 970 unless you find a great sale, as you're always better off with, say, a 1TB TLC drive than a 500GB Samsung.
  • Similarly, unless you are doing heavy video editing or other demanding high end drive stuff, you're better off with 3.0x4 than 4.0 drives for the same size reason. The SX8200 Pro 2TB at some point was at or under $300 USD.
Q: Why don't games scale with the SSD yet?
A handful of reasons, although there are probably more:
  • Today's games on PC use RAM as a massive cache, because there's just more to work with than on console. A PS4 game is constantly thrashing its hard drive to stream data in and out, while a PC with 16GB of RAM has a huge amount of space to just preload most of that information. They can "lazy stream", so to speak.

  • Windows overhead. Microsoft is introducing DirectStorage with Xbox Series X as a way to minimize this and is expected to update that on PC DirectX as well.

  • Common denominator: PC is rarely lead platform (even though the vast majority of gamedev is PCs). I'd say most gamedev uses 2.5" SATA these days for development tools and running the build, but optimization is to run on an HD. So I suspect that in the future as PS5/XSX games use relatively huge amounts of RAM and fast storage, games will either scale up better on PC or offer an "SSD mode" to change the loading strategy. <<no inside info here, sadly! Just a guess.
Looking forward for people buying now, if you want to be "future proof", you can buy a TLC 3.0x4 drive and get the same or better specs as the Xbox Series X drive. But I suspect even QLC drives will see benefit if games start using SSDs more effectively.

Q: What about PlayStation 5?
Sony has a bit of a Ferrari. The fastest SSDs today are 8 channel, 5GB/s PCIe 4.0 drives that can only be used on the AMD X570 motherboard. Sony's solution is 12 channel (never used in PC retail) and 5.5GB/s. Add in a custom I/O core and it's probably not directly comparable to any PC drive.

Later 2020, the second generation of PCIe 4.0 drives will come out on the PC market (Samsung 980 Pro, Phison E18, etc) with even better bandwidth (7GB/s+ vs. PS5 5.5GB/s). So the highway won't be as "wide", but traffic will be faster, sort of evening-out the advantage. I suspect many of them will be considered PS5 compatible. Just keep in mind they will be expensive - expect to pay double the price of a 3.0x4 drive at first.

Q: Does Brand Name Matter?
Not really. These days all SSDs use controller chips from a handful of manufacturers. So for example, the HP ex950 and ADATA SX8200 Pro are virtually the same drive despite vastly different brand names. Each brand may introduce their own tweaks, but at the end of the day the number of drive controller and flash manufacturers is very few. There has also been some high profile gaffes by major brands, especially Intel with their subpar 660p/665p models.

Where brand can matter a bit is if you're buying truly no-name Chinese brands from, say, Alibaba. A lot of b/c-tier stock and controller chips we've never heard of come out of that space. General rule of thumb: if you're not sure about the brand, google some reviews or search on youtube. Almost all of the popular but lesser known brands have reviews. (addlink, ADATA, teamforce, etc)

Q: How much storage should I get?
In the old days of SSDs you'd just get a small boot drive for Windows. You can still do that, but SSD speed scales up towards 1TB/2TB. So if you want fast, you want one of those two sizes. There's just a peace-of-mind benefit to having one drive letter that is fast everywhere and not always managing what goes on the SSD, what goes on the HDD, etc. For average gaming a 1TB model is recommended; it's lots of room for games, Windows, and minimal management. The Crucial P1 (QLC+DRAM) has been at or below $100 USD, which means there are affordable drives at that size.

Keep in mind that most motherboards have only two M.2 slots, and the maximum size M.2 you can buy today is 2TB. (4TB is sometimes available, but only if you have...say, 2-3000 dollars). So if you have a lot of games you may want another M.2 drive later (or just a big HDD for all of those tiny games that don't give a crap about where you store it).

Q: I want more exact info for (my specific situation)
You have a few options:
  • Borecraft's SSD Buying Guide is highly recommended and does cover more about SATA if that's your jam.
  • Anandtech regularly has a "best SSDs" list.
  • Newmaxx (Reddit) has his own SSD guide and list of SSDs if you're not sure what to buy.

  • Or you can just ask in the thread :)
 
Last edited:

Nida

Member
Aug 31, 2019
11,120
Everett, Washington
Is it possible to play a game in on one monitor and browse the internet on the other at the same time? Or is performance going to take a nose dive?
 

maped

Member
Mar 7, 2018
237
I wish more cases built taller rather than deeper. Like the Meshify C, but even taller. I'd love to have a case that could fit a 360mm rad in the front and still have an optical drive above it (I rip Blu-rays). So few cases even support optical slots these days though. The Define 7 is just too deep, I'd be wasting so much space. The rest are either too huge or too poorly designed.

I often wish I could just custom design a case and have someone build it. No one makes the case that I really want. I'd pay just about any price for it.

Fire up your favorite CAD-program, draw up your case and send it to Protocase for a quote. It's hard to say how much it's going to be but judging from the few examples floating around on the internet, probably about 1000$ for a simple design, more for any complicated designs or if the design needs tweaking to work.
 
OP
OP
Crazymoogle

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Asia
Is it possible to play a game in on one monitor and browse the internet on the other at the same time? Or is performance going to take a nose dive?

Sure, just set your game to run in a window and alt tab between them. If you truly want to separate them (say, play a game with a gamepad but use your mouse to browse, that, I'm not sure about. Most games will detect and take control of both so I'm not sure how you would cloak KBM from the game unless it specifically has a toggle for it.
 

SmartWaffles

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,244
Is it possible to play a game in on one monitor and browse the internet on the other at the same time? Or is performance going to take a nose dive?
No noticeable performance hit with dual monitors. Certain games might be a couple fps slower in borderless windowed but that's more on borderless itself.
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
Sure, just set your game to run in a window and alt tab between them. If you truly want to separate them (say, play a game with a gamepad but use your mouse to browse, that, I'm not sure about. Most games will detect and take control of both so I'm not sure how you would cloak KBM from the game unless it specifically has a toggle for it.
Can I play a video in one monitor and play a game in the other
 
OP
OP
Crazymoogle

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Asia
Can I play a video in one monitor and play a game in the other

Yep

Just play your game in window mode (or borderless) on one screen, play your video on the other. As long as you don't do fullscreen the other monitor shouldn't blank out. The only thing to make sure is if you have a game that supports multiscreen to disable that feature.

It's very common for people playing slow games (hearthstone, whatever) to just keep youtube rolling on a side monitor.
 

Nida

Member
Aug 31, 2019
11,120
Everett, Washington
No noticeable performance hit with dual monitors. Certain games might be a couple fps slower in borderless windowed but that's more on borderless itself.
Sure, just set your game to run in a window and alt tab between them. If you truly want to separate them (say, play a game with a gamepad but use your mouse to browse, that, I'm not sure about. Most games will detect and take control of both so I'm not sure how you would cloak KBM from the game unless it specifically has a toggle for it.

Wanting my fiancee to be able to play the Witcher on our tv while I do work on the monitor. It's setup to both currently, and the Witcher has a setting for which screen the game will play on. Just wasn't sure if she could use the controller in that window while I use mouse on mine. Also wasn't sure how sound would work.

Moogle, is this SSD my best bet?

Samsung (MZ-V7E1T0BW) 970 EVO SSD 1TB - M.2 NVMe Interface Internal Solid State Drive with V-NAND Technology, Black/Red
 

Raydonn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
919
SSD Guide
Modern PC SSDs have a few specs you need to be aware of before you purchase. (Don't worry, it's easier than it sounds!)
  • INTERFACE: SATA (old), NVMe (new)
  • SIZE: 3.5" (big), 2.5", M.2 (tiny)
  • FLASH: QLC (slow/cheap), TLC, SLC (fast/expensive)
  • CACHE: Does it have its own RAM?
Q: Can my PC use an SSD?
As long as it's not 15+ years old, yes. Every motherboard today has "SATA" ports, which are basically data plugs meant for hard drives. Worse case, you can buy an SSD supporting that plug. Even the PlayStation 4 supports SSDs using this method.

If you absolutely want an M.2 NVMe because it's awesome/small/fast, but don't have the slot, you can buy an M.2 adapter card that plugs into any PCIe 3.0/4.0 slot. This will allow you to add 1-2 M.2 NVMe drives of your choosing. (But usually this cannot be booted from.)

Q: What size of SSD should I buy?
For this, you need to look at the website or manual of your motherboard because there are a few specs out there:
  • SATA (2.5"): As I said above, you undoubtedly have a SATA port. If your case has a spot to install a 2.5" drive, that means you can buy a 2.5" SSD. It's the slowest and oldest of SSDs, but it does work. Just remember you need to have a SATA cable and a SATA power cable for it to work.

  • M.2 (SATA): Most motherboards in the last 5 years (or more) support M.2, a tiny standard where the SSD is so small it's literally a stick that plugs into the motherboard. No cables. The older M.2 slots still use SATA, meaning if you plug in an M.2 SATA drive, one of your SATA ports will be disabled.

  • M.2 (NVMe): The modern standard. NVMe is a protocol specifically for SSDs that communicates as if it's a PCIe card. NVMe cards are easily the fastest, and this is the protocol used by PS5/XSX. M.2 cards do require a tiny standoff and screw, which should come with your motherboard accessories (if not, look on amazon...) Since they are so tiny and cableless, they are the easiest to install.
Q: What speed of SSD should I buy?
This is a bit trickier. There are basically 5 products on the market currently (2020):
  • INTERFACE: SATA (slowest) > PCIe 3.0 > PCIe 3.0x4 > PCIe 4.0
    Why PCIe? NVMe communicates like a PCIe card, so it uses PCIe speeds. As of April 2020, only AMD X570 motherboards and the PlayStation 5 support PCIe 4.0. Intel only supports up to PCIe 3.0x4 and might not support 4.0 until 2021. 4.0 offers massive boosts in bandwidth (5-8GB/s) but you won't notice this different (yet) in gaming.

  • CACHE: Any decent SSD uses a RAM cache to maximize lifetime and reduce latency. However, some new (2019/2020) cheap SSDs are starting to appear that are "DRAMless", using part of the SSD itself as a cache. Avoid these if at all possible; the latency hit is severe.

  • FLASH: The storage chips themselves. Basically to make SSDs affordable, manufacturers went from 1 bit per cell (SLC) to 2 bits (MLC) to 3 bits (TLC) and finally 4 bits (QLC). Every time they do this, you get more storage, but lifetime and speed get cut severely. Currently most "performance" SSDs are TLC and "cheap" SSDs are QLC.

    If you hear about "3D", well, that's the other solution. Most modern SSDs stack layers of MLC/TLC on top of each other. (64, 96, 128 microscopic layers tall). Samsung's VNAND does exactly this, sidestepping the whole QLC problem.
So given all of this, there are basically these classes available today from cheapest to most expensive:
  1. DRAMless QLC: new, dirt cheap, bad performance, 2.5" or M.2 form factors, avoid.
  2. 2.5" SATA: old drives, mostly going out of the market, although the Samsung 860 Evo hangs around.
  3. QLC + DRAM (Sabrent Rocket Q) The "slowest" of the fast, but still good. Avoid the Intel 660p if possible.
  4. TLC + DRAM (HP ex950, ADATA SX 8200 Pro) 3.0x4 drives with great performance.
  5. Samsung VNAND (970 EVO, 970 Pro) The best of 3.0x4 but very expensive.
  6. PCIe 4.0 (AORUS Gen 4) The fastest today, but double the price of 3.0x4 and games can't use it yet.
Linus Tech Tips did a blind test for today's games (2019/early 2020) and found no noticeable difference between SATA 2.5" and PCIe 4.0 in terms of initial load and overall experience. Benchmarks slow a slight advantage up the scale, but not enough to be noticeable without the numbers in front of you. Professional apps clearly favor NVMe. tl;dr?
  • Budget minded gamers should opt for 2.5" SATA or QLC+DRAM. Crucial P1, 860 EVO, etc.
  • Perf/pro app gamers should opt for TLC drives. ex950, SX8200 Pro, etc.
  • In general I won't recommend the Samsung 970 unless you find a great sale, as you're always better off with, say, a 1TB TLC drive than a 500GB Samsung.
  • Similarly, unless you are doing heavy video editing or other demanding high end drive stuff, you're better off with 3.0x4 than 4.0 drives for the same size reason. The SX8200 Pro 2TB at some point was at or under $300 USD.
Q: Why don't games scale with the SSD yet?
A handful of reasons, although there are probably more:
  • Today's games on PC use RAM as a massive cache, because there's just more to work with than on console. A PS4 game is constantly thrashing its hard drive to stream data in and out, while a PC with 16GB of RAM has a huge amount of space to just preload most of that information. They can "lazy stream", so to speak.

  • Windows overhead. Microsoft is introducing DirectStorage with Xbox Series X as a way to minimize this and is expected to update that on PC DirectX as well.

  • Common denominator: PC is rarely lead platform (even though the vast majority of gamedev is PCs). I'd say most gamedev uses 2.5" SATA these days for development tools and running the build, but optimization is to run on an HD. So I suspect that in the future as PS5/XSX games use relatively huge amounts of RAM and fast storage, games will either scale up better on PC or offer an "SSD mode" to change the loading strategy. <<no inside info here, sadly! Just a guess.
Looking forward for people buying now, if you want to be "future proof", you can buy a TLC 3.0x4 drive and get the same or better specs as the Xbox Series X drive. But I suspect even QLC drives will see benefit if games start using SSDs more effectively.

Q: What about PlayStation 5?
Sony has a bit of a Ferrari. The fastest SSDs today are 8 channel, 5GB/s PCIe 4.0 drives that can only be used on the AMD X570 motherboard. Sony's solution is 12 channel (never used in PC retail) and 5.5GB/s. Add in a custom I/O core and it's probably not directly comparable to any PC drive.

Later 2020, the second generation of PCIe 4.0 drives will come out on the PC market (Samsung 980 Pro, Phison E18, etc) with even better bandwidth (7GB/s+ vs. PS5 5.5GB/s). So the highway won't be as "wide", but traffic will be faster, sort of evening-out the advantage. I suspect many of them will be considered PS5 compatible. Just keep in mind they will be expensive - expect to pay double the price of a 3.0x4 drive at first.

Q: Does Brand Name Matter?
Not really. These days all SSDs use controller chips from a handful of manufacturers. So for example, the HP ex950 and ADATA SX8200 Pro are virtually the same drive despite vastly different brand names. Each brand may introduce their own tweaks, but at the end of the day the number of drive controller and flash manufacturers is very few. There has also been some high profile gaffes by major brands, especially Intel with their subpar 660p/665p models.

Where brand can matter a bit is if you're buying truly no-name Chinese brands from, say, Alibaba. A lot of b/c-tier stock and controller chips we've never heard of come out of that space. General rule of thumb: if you're not sure about the brand, google some reviews or search on youtube. Almost all of the popular but lesser known brands have reviews. (addlink, ADATA, teamforce, etc)

Q: How much storage should I get?
In the old days of SSDs you'd just get a small boot drive for Windows. You can still do that, but SSD speed scales up towards 1TB/2TB. So if you want fast, you want one of those two sizes. There's just a peace-of-mind benefit to having one drive letter that is fast everywhere and not always managing what goes on the SSD, what goes on the HDD, etc. For average gaming a 1TB model is recommended; it's lots of room for games, Windows, and minimal management. The Crucial P1 (QLC+DRAM) has been at or below $100 USD, which means there are affordable drives at that size.

Keep in mind that most motherboards have only two M.2 slots, and the maximum size M.2 you can buy today is 2TB. (4TB is sometimes available, but only if you have...say, 2-3000 dollars). So if you have a lot of games you may want another M.2 drive later (or just a big HDD for all of those tiny games that don't give a crap about where you store it).
I like this guide, but aren't most SSDs using 3D stacking technology now?

EDIT: Nevermind, I reread it and you do address it. I'm too sleepy, I should sleep.
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,377
Wanting my fiancee to be able to play the Witcher on our tv while I do work on the monitor. It's setup to both currently, and the Witcher has a setting for which screen the game will play on. Just wasn't sure if she could use the controller in that window while I use mouse on mine. Also wasn't sure how sound would work.

Moogle, is this SSD my best bet?

Samsung (MZ-V7E1T0BW) 970 EVO SSD 1TB - M.2 NVMe Interface Internal Solid State Drive with V-NAND Technology, Black/Red
Read the threadmark moogle just posted.
Yes the Evo is a good SSD but for the price you could buy something else that performs very very similarly for the layman.

Holy shit almost 200 dollars for 1 TB?
You can save a few bucks by going for a Sabrent nvme.


Can I play a video in one monitor and play a game in the other

To keep things simple.

Pretty much whatever you can do with Word open and Chrome open, you can do with one of these programs being a game.
Hell you coud have both programs be games if you wanted.

If the game is in Windowed mode, your PC could be running literally anything on the other screen.
Games are just another application running on your PC so the multitasking that you already do with your PC now can be done with games as well
 

Nida

Member
Aug 31, 2019
11,120
Everett, Washington
Read the threadmark moogle just posted.
Yes the Evo is a good SSD but for the price you could buy something else that performs very very similarly for the layman.

Holy shit almost 200 dollars for 1 TB?
You can save a few bucks by going for a Sabrent nvme.




To keep things simple.

Pretty much whatever you can do with Word open and Chrome open, you can do with one of these programs being a game.
Hell you coud have both programs be games if you wanted.

If the game is in Windowed mode, your PC could be running literally anything on the other screen.
Games are just another application running on your PC so the multitasking that you already do with your PC now can be done with games as well
Thanks I completely missed the threadmark earlier.

Is this a better choice?

Sabrent 2TB Rocket NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Internal SSD High Performance Solid State Drive (SB-ROCKET-2TB)

Just hadn't heard of that brand before.

With the 2 monitor setup can each have their own sound output? I use a screen reader, didn't know if it would work.
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,377
Thanks I completely missed the threadmark earlier.

Is this a better choice?

Sabrent 2TB Rocket NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Internal SSD High Performance Solid State Drive (SB-ROCKET-2TB)

Just hadn't heard of that brand before.

With the 2 monitor setup can each have their own sound output? I use a screen reader, didn't know if it would work.

Yes the Sabrent is a good choice, its a really strong choice for bang for buck when it comes SSDs.
You could even do a Rocket Q and still be good.

Pretty much all the newer SSDs are very good choices Samsung is the "cool" choice but it doesnt offer tangible performance benefits over the current competition.



As for 2 monitor setups....you can tell each program to output audio to which ever audio device you want....im assuming you are on windows 10.
I used to do this with me X she would watch real housewives on one screen and i would be gaming on the other.
I would just set the game audio to come out of my headphones, and the other audio was handled by the TV.

I had a Monitor for gaming and a TV for .....errr gaming and large real estate when I didnt need speed.