I don't think it's a big enough upgrade personally, it'll be less than 50% in a lot of games and you'd be losing DLSS. Something like the 4070 would be more like the target I'd be aiming for if you wanted a more meaningful upgrade.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
The PC Builders Thread ("I Need a New PC") v3
- Thread starter Crazymoogle
- Start date
- PC Tech OT
I don't think it's a big enough upgrade personally, it'll be less than 50% in a lot of games and you'd be losing DLSS. Something like the 4070 would be more like the target I'd be aiming for if you wanted a more meaningful upgrade.
Honestly the problem with prebuilts is that by the time you've done enough research to know whether or not you're getting screwed over, what do you need a prebuilt for, lol.
Out of curiosity I threw an Intel build together into Memory Express' system configurator and came up with this:
Let's compare it to this prebuilt (I see this one all over the place):
Canada Computers | Best PC, Laptop, Gaming Gear, Printer, TV, Cables - Canada Computers & Electronics
The best deals on laptops, PC, game systems, components, small appliances, cables, and office supplies. Save more by shopping online or in-store!
www.canadacomputers.com
Caveats: The system I built was only with parts I could find in-stock right now at memory express, and as mentioned before I've only been researching AMD lately - maybe some stuff like the motherboard, RAM could be improved. PSU is fine as far as I know. And like, you could get whatever for the case, I just picked the most vanilla baseline thing out there. But even just throwing this together in 5 minutes it handily beats the prebuilt in just about every category for less money, and it still comes with assembly etc.
Now bear in mind this is a mega overkill monster of a system. You could scale a lot of stuff back and cut down the price easily.
Amazon already bumped my 7800X3D up twice. May the 4th last night after checkout. Then 4-28. Now 4-25.
Have any Ryzen 7800X3D, 7900X3D or 7950X3D owners been able to successfully run their X3D Zen 4 CPU using a Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master motherboard (rev. 1.0)?
Either this combination doesn't work at all, or something is seriously awry.
Despite Gigabyte listing support for Zen 4 X3D, this motherboard refuses to boot with my 7800X3D powering it. It will simply do a brief failed RAM training, before displaying code 00, with the DRAM LED code light remaining lit on the PCB.
I've had to purchase two RAM kits, two Zen 4 CPUs and two X670E mobos to determine that each part does in fact work, and nothing is faulty or arrived DOA.
The backup CPU is Ryzen 5 7600, which booted immediately inside the Gigabyte motherboard, and was used to update the UEFI/BIOS to the latest release (BIOS F10a from late March, with AGESA 1.0.0.6).
The backup mobo is an Asus ROG Strix X670E-E Gaming, which booted immediately with the 7800X3D.
I'd like to stay away from Asus this generation and possibly MSI as well. Can go either way when it comes to ASRock's higher end offerings.
Really wanted to use the Gigabyte Aorus Master this gen and it's perfectly situated inside the very tight build I had planned with an RTX 4090 sitting snuggly on top of it.
Going to contact Gigabyte support to see if they have any unlisted beta BIOS with 7800X3D support they can provide... but not holding out much hope...
What motherboards are the X3D owners here running?
Either this combination doesn't work at all, or something is seriously awry.
Despite Gigabyte listing support for Zen 4 X3D, this motherboard refuses to boot with my 7800X3D powering it. It will simply do a brief failed RAM training, before displaying code 00, with the DRAM LED code light remaining lit on the PCB.
I've had to purchase two RAM kits, two Zen 4 CPUs and two X670E mobos to determine that each part does in fact work, and nothing is faulty or arrived DOA.
The backup CPU is Ryzen 5 7600, which booted immediately inside the Gigabyte motherboard, and was used to update the UEFI/BIOS to the latest release (BIOS F10a from late March, with AGESA 1.0.0.6).
The backup mobo is an Asus ROG Strix X670E-E Gaming, which booted immediately with the 7800X3D.
I'd like to stay away from Asus this generation and possibly MSI as well. Can go either way when it comes to ASRock's higher end offerings.
Really wanted to use the Gigabyte Aorus Master this gen and it's perfectly situated inside the very tight build I had planned with an RTX 4090 sitting snuggly on top of it.
Going to contact Gigabyte support to see if they have any unlisted beta BIOS with 7800X3D support they can provide... but not holding out much hope...
What motherboards are the X3D owners here running?
I'm seeing posts here about folks with Gigabyte boards running fine, but only one mentioning the Master x670e:
Reddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.com
I'm a bit concerned since my Asrock board doesn't list support yet but saw posts from folks running it just fine. I assume they'll have a BIOS update soon enough, my concern is mainly because my 30 day return window is *really* close. As in Tuesday. Hopefully the CPU makes it in time, though I guess it'll only matter if some of my stuff is DOA. Had to order it from the US to Canada since it was a paper launch here.
I am torn between upgrading to either a 13700k or 13900k…money isn't an issue, I just don't know if the 900k is worth it for gaming.
also, I'm aware Intel will be releasing new chips in, what, ~ months or so, but current rumors point those to being a raptor lake refresh. Don't think it's worth it to wait
also, I'm aware Intel will be releasing new chips in, what, ~ months or so, but current rumors point those to being a raptor lake refresh. Don't think it's worth it to wait
What's your board? A bunch of ASRock boards support the 7000 3D chips via their 1.18 BIOS update. Look at the support page for the motherboard rather than the features list to see if your board has had an update.I'm seeing posts here about folks with Gigabyte boards running fine, but only one mentioning the Master x670e:
Reddit - Dive into anything
I'm a bit concerned since my Asrock board doesn't list support yet but saw posts from folks running it just fine. I assume they'll have a BIOS update soon enough, my concern is mainly because my 30 day return window is *really* close. As in Tuesday. Hopefully the CPU makes it in time, though I guess it'll only matter if some of my stuff is DOA. Had to order it from the US to Canada since it was a paper launch here.
Steel Legend x670e. I'm sure it's fine, it just isn't listed specifically on the support page (the 7900/7950X3D are). But even those say they were bootable on much older BIOS.
What are you upgrading from? 13900k is better for gaming due to the higher clocks and more cache, but absolutely not worth it in terms of value just for gaming use. I think if you are seriously looking at the 13900k, then it is worth waiting for the raptor lake refresh (depends on what you have now). Worst case, the refresh is a bunch of nothing and the 13900k costs less at that point. 13700k is also a great CPU so nothing wrong with going for that either.
Thanks, Mupod.I'm seeing posts here about folks with Gigabyte boards running fine, but only one mentioning the Master x670e:
Reddit - Dive into anything
I'm a bit concerned since my Asrock board doesn't list support yet but saw posts from folks running it just fine. I assume they'll have a BIOS update soon enough, my concern is mainly because my 30 day return window is *really* close. As in Tuesday. Hopefully the CPU makes it in time, though I guess it'll only matter if some of my stuff is DOA. Had to order it from the US to Canada since it was a paper launch here.
Easily one of the oddest experiences I've had in several years of building PCs. Relieved that the parts are not DOA at least, but no idea why I can't get the 7800X3D to run with my Gigabyte X670E.
Will try troubleshooting that combo a bit more before I contact Gigabyte, or have to return the Aorus Master.
Gigabyte X670 and B650 BIOS update adds support for AMD Ryzen 7000X3D chips - KitGuru
In a few days, AMD will release the Ryzen 7000X3D chips to the public. These chips will be supported
www.kitguru.net
To be fair, most recent LGAs seem to be like this. It's been years since most required relatively "light" force to close.
IIRC, we both have the same MSI 4090 Gaming X Trio and were on AM4. What AM5 CPU and board have you paired it with?
I have a 5800X3D powering my RX 7900 XTX build and while it's great, there are instances where I hit bottlenecks even at high res (ray-tracing, high features, high framerate). So I opted not to get a second 5800X3D for the 4090 build, and go with the 7800X3D instead, since even at 4K there are appreciable performance improvements in some games and problematic areas of titles.
I bought the ASRock PG Lightning X670E with the 7800X3D. I haven't finished the build yet, I will in the morning, but hopefully it all works out ok.
Heads up; no ASRock board officially supports 7800x 3D yet. They're still on AGESA 1.0.0.5c instead of 1.0.0.6
It might boot but it will have issues. You might need to wait for a BIOS update.
We were just talking about that above. Based on the discussion in this reddit thread, it seems like it'll be fine. People talking about using the ASRock Taichi with no issues with the same BIOS version that the PG Lightning has (1.18)
Holy shit, that 4090 is basically scalping price. It's +600 dollars over msrp, crazy.Honestly the problem with prebuilts is that by the time you've done enough research to know whether or not you're getting screwed over, what do you need a prebuilt for, lol.
Out of curiosity I threw an Intel build together into Memory Express' system configurator and came up with this:
Let's compare it to this prebuilt (I see this one all over the place):
Canada Computers | Best PC, Laptop, Gaming Gear, Printer, TV, Cables - Canada Computers & Electronics
The best deals on laptops, PC, game systems, components, small appliances, cables, and office supplies. Save more by shopping online or in-store!
Caveats: The system I built was only with parts I could find in-stock right now at memory express, and as mentioned before I've only been researching AMD lately - maybe some stuff like the motherboard, RAM could be improved. PSU is fine as far as I know. And like, you could get whatever for the case, I just picked the most vanilla baseline thing out there. But even just throwing this together in 5 minutes it handily beats the prebuilt in just about every category for less money, and it still comes with assembly etc.
Now bear in mind this is a mega overkill monster of a system. You could scale a lot of stuff back and cut down the price easily.
Canadian dollars, lol. That's the cheapest one you can get here. Technically the FE is cheaper but it's best buy only, never in stock, and only has a 1 year warranty apparently.
Oh okay, Canadian dollars is automatic scalping. Stuff are so expensive for Canadians compared to Americans.
Hey all, not sure where else to post this
I ordered a G8 OLED from samsung direct and it went through and they charged me, a few hours later I was refunded but the order wasn't cancelled? it just says in process and all the support people are saying it's fine, wtf is going on, anyone experience this before?
I ordered a G8 OLED from samsung direct and it went through and they charged me, a few hours later I was refunded but the order wasn't cancelled? it just says in process and all the support people are saying it's fine, wtf is going on, anyone experience this before?
I just got up from bed to pee, decided to check my phone before going back to sleep (turned off airplane mode) and immediately got an instock alert for the 7800X3D on Amazon, clicked it, Buy Now, success! Sold out immediately after
Did I just get extremely lucky? 👀
Now to decide if I want to keep the 7950X3D or not... Some games run better on it already (like Cyberpunk) and that trend might continue as future games utilize more cores. The price difference isn't that big a deal for me, I'm spending $4000+ on this build (international shipping and customs eating a good chunk of that, still significantly cheaper than buying locally), an extra $250 isn't going to break the bank and I can't use it to upgrade another part of the build, it's already maxed out (I could use the savings to buy games though). I think I would rather pay the premium if I can squeeze more out of the bigger CPU, but it will require more work... I don't mind manually assigning cores or disabling a CCD on a game-by-game basis to do a better job than AMD/Windows scheduler, but the set it and forget it nature of the 7800X3D is appealing.
*sigh* after two weeks of sleepless nights finalizing my build parts I thought I was finally done last night, now I have one more choice to make...
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.
One thing to consider is that I care more about the minimum FPS than average, because I want to game on an LG C1 with Black Frame Insertion, which only works at 120, 100 or 60 Hz and doesn't work with Gsync or VRR. So I need minimum FPS to be 120, 100 or 60 depending on the game, that way I can limit the framerate to one of those numbers to use BFI without issues. So a few FPS can make a difference if the minimum is say 117 vs 123, because going below the fixed strobing rate of the display becomes noticable and jarring. That's why I'm willing to pay a premium even for a normally imperceptible improvement in FPS, because I'm not playing on a normal display, and can't rely on VRR to smooth it out if I want to use BFI.
And hey, if you convince me to get the 7950X3D and you're looking for 7800X3D I can sell it to you for MSRP (by changing the shipping address on my order to yours, done that on these forums before)
Did I just get extremely lucky? 👀
Now to decide if I want to keep the 7950X3D or not... Some games run better on it already (like Cyberpunk) and that trend might continue as future games utilize more cores. The price difference isn't that big a deal for me, I'm spending $4000+ on this build (international shipping and customs eating a good chunk of that, still significantly cheaper than buying locally), an extra $250 isn't going to break the bank and I can't use it to upgrade another part of the build, it's already maxed out (I could use the savings to buy games though). I think I would rather pay the premium if I can squeeze more out of the bigger CPU, but it will require more work... I don't mind manually assigning cores or disabling a CCD on a game-by-game basis to do a better job than AMD/Windows scheduler, but the set it and forget it nature of the 7800X3D is appealing.
*sigh* after two weeks of sleepless nights finalizing my build parts I thought I was finally done last night, now I have one more choice to make...
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.
One thing to consider is that I care more about the minimum FPS than average, because I want to game on an LG C1 with Black Frame Insertion, which only works at 120, 100 or 60 Hz and doesn't work with Gsync or VRR. So I need minimum FPS to be 120, 100 or 60 depending on the game, that way I can limit the framerate to one of those numbers to use BFI without issues. So a few FPS can make a difference if the minimum is say 117 vs 123, because going below the fixed strobing rate of the display becomes noticable and jarring. That's why I'm willing to pay a premium even for a normally imperceptible improvement in FPS, because I'm not playing on a normal display, and can't rely on VRR to smooth it out if I want to use BFI.
And hey, if you convince me to get the 7950X3D and you're looking for 7800X3D I can sell it to you for MSRP (by changing the shipping address on my order to yours, done that on these forums before)
Last edited:
Nothing above a 13600K is "worth it" if you are just gaming.
Well I currently have a 10700k. Which isn't **bad**, but it is 3 generations old at this point, and the 13 series is def putting up some great numbers in comparison. I have a 4090, so I wanna pair it with a comparable chip.
Nice thing about this fall being a raptor lake refresh is the mobos should be compatible still which means if I upgrade now and the raptor lake refresh ends up being insane somehow, I can just swap chips and not worry about another mobo install.
Unless you've got a use for all those extra cores (Like media encoding, video editing, 3d rendering etc.) there's no need going higher than the 7800x3d.
Future-proofing based on cores is a waste of time. By the time such a thing becomes a reality, Zen5 or 6 will be out that will run rings around what available now. One of the key advantages of AM5 is the promised support for future Zen generations, so there's no need to over specify now when you can just plop in a next gen chip and you're good to go.
All those extra cores are hidden away on another CCD without 3D VCache, that means a massive latency penalty and likely a cache miss to access them. Latency is the biggest enemy to gaming frame times. Those cores aren't helpful for gaming and the 7950x3D is just a really badly executed product relying on software related sticking plasters for something that should have been baked into the hardware. Stick to the 7800x3D.
A hypothetical 16 core CCX or 16 performance core monolithic die from Intel may show a good improvement from a 16 core gaming CPU but as long as accessing those cores carries a latency penalty then they're of little benefit for gaming.
Last edited:
I think safest option would be going for a 13600k and seeing how the 14900k or whatever it's called ends up. That would be a decent bump up in terms of everything (going from the 13600k to a 14900k) and the 13600k should not leave you wanting anything more right now (assuming you're playing at 4k). Or you can just get the 13700 or 13900k, they're all pretty good chips.
I'm hearing a lot about DDR5 speeds and how I should not expect to be able to simply load the XMP memory profile on my RAM because it's likely to be unstable at those speeds. I haven't put together a new set of memory/CPU/mobo in about 5 years but I don't recall this being an issue with XMP timings on my previous builds. Is this a real thing, and is it because DDR5 is so new?
I selected DDR5 6400/CL32 sticks for my 13700K build…so if the XMP profile specifies that speed, and it's not stable, can I manually adjust settings to get something in between that and baseline? I admit to never delving that deep into memory timings before.
I selected DDR5 6400/CL32 sticks for my 13700K build…so if the XMP profile specifies that speed, and it's not stable, can I manually adjust settings to get something in between that and baseline? I admit to never delving that deep into memory timings before.
XMP is just 1 click overclocking but it's still overclocking so stability isn't guaranteed and never has been. 6400mhz is a really high memory overclock, you're probably fine with a 13700k but need to appreciate that you're expecting your memory controller and motherboard to support a hefty overclock.
Yeah I was reading opinions on reddit in response to someone who asked the same question and many of them said the same about upgradability and the fallacy of future proofing a CPU on AM5, which makes a lot of sense and I hadn't thought about before. I guess I'm going with the 7800X3D.
I understand the CPU's architecture and the latency penalty of accessing the second CCDs, which is why I was willing to go through the trouble of disabling the CDD when needed, but I remembered seeing a couple of example where the 7950X3D was significantly ahead of the 7800X3D, notably in Cyberpunk and Elden Ring, and I figured there could be other games that exhibit improved performance despite the latency penalty, but I went back to check the charts and it's only at low resolutions, which still could be relevant when using DLSS or with future GPUs but yeah not worth it for all the negatives it brings in other games.
Thanks for the input guys. 7800X3D it is!
Last edited:
Good point. When I put the system together I will start with base clocks and verify stability there before working upwards. The 1-click nature of XMP makes it easy to forget what it's really doing.
I think you're fine to go ahead and enable it from the off. Just don't skip the step of proper stability testing that you should be doing for any overclock/undervolt.
It's less of an issue on the Intel side as you don't have the added complexity of simultaneously overclocking your infinity fabric when enabling XMP/EXPO which is a real pain to properly stability test.
There's countless Ryzen systems out there running in an unstable state with their owners blissfully unaware until the latest taxing new game release crashes on their system and they proceed to blame the developer because they've overclocked their system but not bothered stability tested it.
It's been in stock at Amazon for like a full week now, at least for me. I'm not in US and when I sent the link to someone in US he said it shows not in stock for him. Amazon seems to be segregating the stock based on your shipping address or IP, I'm not sure.
Demand for it must have plummeted since the release of the 7800X3D
If I buy memory rated for 6400 or 6200 EXPO does that make it more likely to work at 6000 compared to one rated for 6000?
The memory will be able to run at the rated speed, it's your motherboard and CPU memory controller that may prevent it and buying faster RAM isn't going to change that.
If I get memory rated for 6000 and it's QVL listed for the motherboard but ends up not working on my unit, would that be a legit reason to return the motherboard or CPU to the retailer?
It's an overclock, so no, there's no guarantee that your CPU will run an overclock only stock speeds are guaranteed.
If the exact RAM kit is on your motherboard QVL and you can separately verify that your CPU and the memory kit can support the overclock then, yeah, I think that would be a valid reason to return it.
My ASUS motherboard is on G.Skill's QVL for the exact kit, but the kit is not on ASUS's QVL for the motherboard :/
Yeah but don't AMD themselves suggest 2 sticks of 6000 memory their sweet spot speed.
Obviously no guarantees, but it would be very surprising if the CPU wasn't able to run at least that speed.
Obviously no guarantees, but it would be very surprising if the CPU wasn't able to run at least that speed.
I ordered 2 sticks of 6000 (and my itx mobo only has 2 slots), but I've seen a lot of reports of people with the same mobo being unable to run their memory at 6000.
It may be the sweet spot and will work in most scenarios (and definitely what you should be buying) but AMD only officially guarantee/support DDR5-5200 for 2 DIMMs and DDR5-3600 for 4 DIMMs. Anything above that is an overclock. An overclock that is easy to apply and likely to work in most scenarios but it's still an overclock.
Funny itx boards has the reputation for being better at memory overclocking (simpler signal topology with only 2 slots available).
Bear in mind one of the supposed advantages of the 7800x3d chip with it's 1 ccd layout and huge cache is memory speed should become less crucial to overall performance.
I learned about that 2 slots advantage recently and it was one of the reasons that pushed me to look at itx or mATX (the other reason being I didn't want the bulk of a big case).
Seems ASUS boards had more issues with memory overlocking than other vendors on AM5, or it could be because they sell more so there's bound to be more reviews/reports on them. And I saw many say that in Windows the memory was showing as running at 6000, but in bios it would revert back to show base speed, so maybe it is actually running at 6000 and it's just a bios reporting issue. Some of that could already have been improved with bios updates or will improve in the future.
Yeah i watched Hardware Unboxed video about the memory scaling with X3D chips, faster doesn't make as much of a difference as on non-Vcache chips, which is a consolation for X3D owners if they can't run faster memory for some reason.
Last edited:
Im using a deepcool cc560, and i cant figure out how to install the ssd.
What side? The panel side or the inside? And where are the damn screws? There isnt any listed in the accessory kit. Do i use the HDD screws?
What side? The panel side or the inside? And where are the damn screws? There isnt any listed in the accessory kit. Do i use the HDD screws?
Congrats Aeana and I'm sure you'll be fine as well Mupod.
Seeing multiple X670E Autos Master users running both the 7800X3D and the 7950X3D, while my Gigabyte + 7800X3D combo still refuses to boot regardless of what I try.
Several swaps to a Ryzen 7600, different RAM kits, and flashing both BIOS F9 and F10a have all proved futile. As soon as the 7800X3D goes in the socket the CPU won't even initialise... no heat at all from the heatsink and USB drive LED light never comes on.
Waiting to see if Gigabyte support can be of any help, but this looks like I'll need to fully disassemble the system and return the mobo.
Processor works, board works and others users run this combo without issue, but it somehow never posts for me.
Have never seen anything like this before...
Seeing multiple X670E Autos Master users running both the 7800X3D and the 7950X3D, while my Gigabyte + 7800X3D combo still refuses to boot regardless of what I try.
Several swaps to a Ryzen 7600, different RAM kits, and flashing both BIOS F9 and F10a have all proved futile. As soon as the 7800X3D goes in the socket the CPU won't even initialise... no heat at all from the heatsink and USB drive LED light never comes on.
Waiting to see if Gigabyte support can be of any help, but this looks like I'll need to fully disassemble the system and return the mobo.
Processor works, board works and others users run this combo without issue, but it somehow never posts for me.
Have never seen anything like this before...
Ran into a small issue where every single game was running at 7 FPS or so. Reinstalling GPU drivers (despite already being a fresh install on a fresh OS) seems to have fixed it, but that was a bit of a scare. Everything seems to be running fine. Temps are good, USB ports appear to be good (knock on wood - this has been a point of conflict for me in the past). The Fractal Torrent is very quiet, but all of the reviews that called it "surprisingly light" scare me about the weight of other cases. It's easily 150% the weight of my Define R5 builds in the past. I'm so glad I bought this little platform thing to help me move it around and keep it off of the floor. Probably the best money I spent across all of the parts for this build.