The penultimate episode of Game of Thrones is the lowest rated episode in series history (critic reviews)

Haunted

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,329
So basically, the writers can't into original content, and the show went down the drain?
The original author can't be matched in that regard, yes.

But even with all the emotion and investment, let's not be super dramatic, the show is still good, really well produced with a terrific cast still acting their hearts out, the script just doesn't stick the landing as well as everyone hoped.

Things are getting rushed as they head towards a predetermined conclusion at a much faster pace than the early seasons.
 

Nokagi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,230
I disliked episode 4 way more than this one. That episode was a huge pile of bullshit all the way through. Episode 5 had it's problems but overall I rather enjoyed it. I think episode 2 is still the best of the season.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,486
Pretty much. It's a shame because they'd had some flashes of original content that had been good. (For anyone glancing at this post that has seen the show, I'm talking about the Arya and Tywin scenes).

It's not even necessarily this season. They completed the arc of a very important character in Episodes 2 and 4 and then immediately wrote off that decade long progression for no apparent reason. It wasn't great.


Fuck me. Nail. Head.
We’re talking Jaime? Like nothing would have changed if Jaime hadn’t been present. The Euron fight was a complete non sequitur and those knife wounds didn’t even matter in the end. He wasn’t the one to ring the bells, wasn’t shown being involving in that at all. Cersei was heading down to escape anyway. His talk with Tyrion ran counter to what had been established previously about his chracter. The two-scene Bronn “plot-line” was rendered completely pointless.

I just don’t get it.
 

Tommolb

Member
Oct 28, 2017
209
Leighton Buzzard, UK
This is a pretty lame take Tbh... The show was fantastic in basically ever aspect for the first few seasons- so that's the bar many fans expected. And now, the writing and pacing is of a very low, and as a result, it's not getting the send off many people feel these characters deserve.

Is it entertaining? Sure, the cinematography, the performances, the music- it's all top notch. But it's extremely disappointing that the story telling doesn't match. Why should we have to wait a while and reflect? I didn't have to wait to realize that I loved the show... So why should it take longer to judge it when it doesn't seem so good?
Decisions taken in the heat of the momen often end up being reassessed later. For example, how many games have been raved about on release, to only to be reassessed later as perhaps not being that good? And vice versa, how many great games were not really appreciated in their time? The same applies to music, films, TV. All I am arguing is that we might need to do the same here with GOT. At the moment there is a bandwagon of people slagging everything about it off, and this is now the prism through which everyone is viewing it.

I don't think it's as bad as everyone is making out. It's not bad TV, the writing isn't shit, but it's not great great TV either.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,892
We’re talking Jaime? Like nothing would have changed if Jaime hadn’t been present. The Euron fight was a complete non sequitur and those knife wounds didn’t even matter in the end. He wasn’t the one to ring the bells, wasn’t shown being involving in that at all. Cersei was heading down to escape anyway. His talk with Tyrion ran counter to what had been established previously about his chracter. The two-scene Bronn “plot-line” was rendered completely pointless.

I just don’t get it.
I was, yeah, it's all just mad. Honestly don't even know what they were thinking.
 

Chopper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
447
I'm a huge fan of both the books and the show, and have absolutely no problem with this season at all. I thought this episode was incredible, I absolutely buy Danny's turn, have no problems with Cersei or Jamie's deaths and could not be more excited about Sunday.

Am I an idiot?
 

Mudcrab

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
1,486
I'm a huge fan of both the books and the show, and have absolutely no problem with this season at all. I thought this episode was incredible, I absolutely buy Danny's turn, have no problems with Cersei or Jamie's deaths and could not be more excited about Sunday.

Am I an idiot?
Why would you be an idiot for liking something?
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,520
Decisions taken in the heat of the momen often end up being reassessed later. For example, how many games have been raved about on release, to only to be reassessed later as perhaps not being that good? And vice versa, how many great games were not really appreciated in their time? The same applies to music, films, TV. All I am arguing is that we might need to do the same here with GOT. At the moment there is a bandwagon of people slagging everything about it off, and this is now the prism through which everyone is viewing it.

I don't think it's as bad as everyone is making out. It's not bad TV, the writing isn't shit, but it's not great great TV either.
I feel like this is an argument that gets peddle when people can't take criticism of something they like. If every episode was still getting excellent critical reviews, no one would be saying, "let's wait a while to reflect and see if it's truly good or not "

The point is, GoT was great TV. It was great writing. Excellent. And now it isn't. And the drop in quality is staggering. That's massively disappointing for people who are deeply invested in the characters.

It doesn't take "reflection" to immediately notice that the series rapidly shifted from being character driven to being rushed toward specific plot occurrences - to the detriment of what had been built.
 

Mudcrab

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
1,486
Because I clearly don't understand what 90% of vocal GoT fans are talking about.
Oh well some people (myself included) feel that the plot and characterization in GOT are suffering due to the expediency needed to reach the end of the series by this Sunday.

Other poeple don't really care. You can be in the latter category and that's okay just don't take it personally if others are in the former.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,669
Spoilers:

If Dany became a murdeous hitler 2 seasons ago when all these things (losing her dragons, her best friend, her loyal armed servant, her advisors betraying her, etc) happened, THEN I would be on the whole "Well she lost everything, it was always there yada yada yada" BUT this shit happened overnight. All of this just feels like a knee jerk reaction. As others have already beat to death, when it came to her father, his decline was not rapid or happened overnight. It was literally after a long period of time of him losing so much, so his actual change to madness was very fleshed out for it to be justified as a part of his character. I'll admit that yes, I'm just a fan that would have preferred to dislike Dany for gradually becoming murderous IF her past murdering spree was against innocent people rather than slavers and traitors who were trying to kill her or the people she cared about (and not empty threats she never acted on regardless if her advisors snatched her back). But we didn't get to see that, and I really just don't buy that everyone else did because they've already build pre-conceived notion that she was the evil one from the get go with her "faux" hero arc which in all entirety, she truly was on her side of the country. So I'm 100% in the miss me with that BS camp. Everything about that imo idc, is a character assassination.

It truly just sucks. At the end of the day, I have conceded to being ok with the ending because at least we all know how it's going to end and I wanted my person to make it to the end. I didn't really care about the outcome per say, whether this person sits on the throne or not, but as long as they made it to the last episode. So I am content, but this was just not the right way to go about it. This is not how I imagined there death and I just can't accept that. Not like this..
 

Chopper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
447
In all seriousness, it's fine if you enjoy it, were just lamenting the rush to the finish squandering nearly a decade of good will all so D&D could work on Star wars.
Oh well some people (myself included) feel that the plot and characterization in GOT are suffering due to the expediency needed to reach the end of the series by this Sunday.
Yeah, I definitely disagree with this sentiment. Sorry guys. I hope you can enjoy the finale!
 

ProfessorLobo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
741
I'm a huge fan of both the books and the show, and have absolutely no problem with this season at all. I thought this episode was incredible, I absolutely buy Danny's turn, have no problems with Cersei or Jamie's deaths and could not be more excited about Sunday.

Am I an idiot?
Weelllllll... since you're here. What would you consider a bad season of television to be? Why was it bad?
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,632
I'm a huge fan of both the books and the show, and have absolutely no problem with this season at all. I thought this episode was incredible, I absolutely buy Danny's turn, have no problems with Cersei or Jamie's deaths and could not be more excited about Sunday.

Am I an idiot?
I don't think that people who have different taste in TV shows than me are idiots, and I don't think that entering a discussion about the merit of the episode like that makes sense.
Maybe try to explain your (very valid!) opinion rather than shadowboxing with meanies who didn't like the episode, or at the very least, wait until someone actually calls you an idiot before getting so defensive about what you like.
 

Chopper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
447
Weelllllll... since you're here. What would you consider a bad season of television to be? Why was it bad?
To be perfectly honest, I tend to extrapolate the positives from most things I watch. My escapism is valuable, so I'm sure immerse myseld as much as possible, and tend to enjoy things more as a result. I'm a big defender of the Lost finale, for example.

But recently? I had to give up on the Walking Dead. Don't get me wrong. Later than most! But the last 3 seasons have just been boring. I can't deal with boring.

I don't think that people who have different taste in TV shows than me are idiots, and I don't think that entering a discussion about the merit of the episode like that makes sense.
Maybe try to explain your (very valid!) opinion rather than shadowboxing with meanies who didn't like the episode, or at the very least, wait until someone actually calls you an idiot before getting so defensive about what you like.
Haha. Absolutely fair enough. That's a lovely turn of phrase. I was kinda fishing for defenders of the episode to raise their heads. Or the sort people who throw around the term "lazy writing" and think that's enough. I've never witnessed such a backlash towards something in my life, expect perhaps that Walking Dead episode, and finding optimistic fans to talk to on the Internet about it is comically hard. And I do genuinely feel awful for those who feel as though they can't enjoy the finale now.
 
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Zefah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,375
I'm a huge fan of both the books and the show, and have absolutely no problem with this season at all. I thought this episode was incredible, I absolutely buy Danny's turn, have no problems with Cersei or Jamie's deaths and could not be more excited about Sunday.

Am I an idiot?
No, you're not an idiot. You just care about different things than others do. You're better off for being able to enjoy something so unconditionally.
 

ProfessorLobo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
741
To be perfectly honest, I tend to extrapolate the positives from most things I watch. My escapism is valuable, so I'm sure immerse myseld as much as possible, and tend to enjoy things more as a result. I'm a big defender of the Lost finale, for example.
Mine too, that's why I'm pissed haha.
No, you're not an idiot. You just care about different things than others do. You're better off for being able to enjoy something so unconditionally.
I'm not going to hate on him but I'm not going to make excuses for people that seem to unconditionally love all media no matter what, because that's why properties go to shit.
 
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Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,137
I'm a huge fan of both the books and the show, and have absolutely no problem with this season at all. I thought this episode was incredible, I absolutely buy Danny's turn, have no problems with Cersei or Jamie's deaths and could not be more excited about Sunday.

Am I an idiot?
Of course not.
Although to me, the quality of episode 4 was actually bad. Acting wasn't convincing at all and the events were to happeining too fast and needed more time.
You didn't even think that one was bad?

Otherwise, great episodes (2,3 AND 5).
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,033
I'm a huge fan of both the books and the show, and have absolutely no problem with this season at all. I thought this episode was incredible, I absolutely buy Danny's turn, have no problems with Cersei or Jamie's deaths and could not be more excited about Sunday.

Am I an idiot?
no. like, imagine you met someone who introduces themselves as:

Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Mother of Dragons, the Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, the Unburnt, the Breaker of Chains.

she's also 23 years old. god complex much? why would anyone who believes they are divinity be cruel? hmmmm should we look to real world comparisons lol. some folks cannot understand egomania.
 

BocoDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,843
Well I liked this episode. Saw it last night and it fits my sensibilities. I like rather flippant and daring turns of events, so stuff like
Varys' death, Daenerys' firestorm
etc all excited me.

I think there's something about a mass audience that, in the aggregate, don't like these sudden, bold moves and want more traditional structure. They call a lack of that safer, more traditional formula "bad writing" and the like. I saw a lot of Last Jedi in this (I am a big fan of that too).
 

Divvy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
613
I don't watch game of thrones, and it's seriously unlikely I ever will, it just doesn't appeal to me.
Could someone give me a rundown on why people are so riled up about the final season?
To add to what others have said, the original writer was unique in that he never really created a plot outline, instead the books were driven by the actions of what he felt each character would do. This is why so many people love the books and the early seasons since all the characters would always act true to who they were. Another great benefit of his writing style was that the actions his characters made would have natural consequences in the plot since he was writing forward in time. This is what allowed many of the beloved shocking moments in the show to not feel cheap, but earned.

Adapting this style to TV was more or less pretty simple up until the show runners ran out of book material. For whatever reason, they felt like they had to end the story within 13 episodes (most speculate it was due to their desire to work on Star Wars). In their rush, they have an ending in mind and are writing backwards, which has very noticeably shifted the direction of the show from character-driven to plot-driven, which has created a show full of out-of-character moments or improbable plot conveniences or coincidences. Compared to where it began, a lot of fans can't help but find this very disappointing.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,137
This proves that a lot of people are eager to hop on this internet event of bashing the show. There is no way objectively that this episode was worse than episode 4 in ANY way. Try and say that with a straight face.
 
OP
OP
Phantom Thief

Phantom Thief

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,916
I'm a huge fan of both the books and the show, and have absolutely no problem with this season at all. I thought this episode was incredible, I absolutely buy Danny's turn, have no problems with Cersei or Jamie's deaths and could not be more excited about Sunday.

Am I an idiot?
No, you just enjoy something that many others may not necessarily enjoy.
 

Zefah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,375
Mine too, that's why I'm pissed haha.


I'm not going to hate on him but I'm not going to make excuses for people that seem to unconditionally love all media no matter what, because that's why properties go to shit.
People enjoy things for different reasons... I mean, GoT is still a stellar show in many ways.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,173
Phoenix, AZ
Because I clearly don't understand what 90% of vocal GoT fans are talking about.
It’s almost entirely because

danys heel turn and everything regarding her character in general. It began in Ep4 by having her “forget” about the Iron Fleet so she can lose a dragon in a cheap way, and it continued in Ep5 by not taking enough time to establish her heel turn. the fans her of her character here are more rational and most just wanted more set-up for this moment, but elsewhere online such as /r/freefolk has become a cesspool with people sending death threats because of how her story is ending. A LOT of people just wanted to see her get everything she wanted with no repercussions
 

J-Skee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,707
Serious question: why didn't they just keep the last two seasons to 10 episodes each? Why did they limit themselves to 13 episodes?
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,137
Yea, I'm one of them. Pretty sure I'm still thinking for myself tho
You honestly think ep 5 was worse than 4?
Okay buddy. Except there wasn't anything done better in ep4. Not the acting, not the writing, not the camera work, not the photography, not the action, pacing, nothing. But feel free to stick with that "opinion".

Unless you named your baby-girl Dany. Then i understand.

This season needed double the episodes.
Yep. EP 4 needed three.
 
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umop 3pisdn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,293
At this point we're all arguing over who we would prefer to blow between our mom and our dad
Exactly. Four really did nothing well and it clearly marked the beginning of the end, but despite everything else that it had going for it, 5 was when the dirty business was actually carried out. I don't really see the need to seriously adjudicate between the two.
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,428
Unless you named your baby-girl Dany. Then i understand.
But feel free to stick with that "opinion".
Lmao, when you gotta resort to stuff like this, what's even the point

At this point we're all arguing over who we would prefer to blow between our mom and our dad
Exactly. Four really did nothing well and it clearly marked the beginning of the end, but despite everything else that it had going for it, 5 was when the dirty business was actually carried out. I don't really see the need to seriously adjudicate between the two.
Y'all not wrong, at the end of the day, S8's simply the weakest season yet. Shame.
 

umop 3pisdn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,293
Sure. No reasons then? Just riding the mass sheople train then. Have fun finding your integrity.
Lol gurl is this worth getting that mad over? 4 and 5 are bad for different reasons. We all know why 4 was bad, but 5 provided the definite confirmation that essentially all of the plot progression and character work from season four onwards was in service of nothing. 4 as a single episode is bad in a vacuum, while 5, despite being a competent episode in a vacuum, taints practically the entire series. Literally who cares who finds which worse when this is what we're deciding between?