The penultimate episode of Game of Thrones is the lowest rated episode in series history (critic reviews)

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,147
Lol gurl is this worth getting that mad over? 4 and 5 are bad for different reasons. We all know why 4 was bad, but 5 provided the definite confirmation that essentially all of the plot progression and character work from season four onwards was in service of nothing. 4 as a single episode is bad in a vacuum, while 5, despite being a competent episode in a vacuum, taints practically the entire series. Literally who cares who finds which worse when this is what we're deciding between?
No of course i'm not really mad. But i do think it's absolute nonsense to say ep5 was worse than 4. I'd like to know why. Doesn't make sense.
 

umop 3pisdn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,302
No of course i'm not really mad. But i do think it's absolute nonsense to say ep5 was worse than 4. I'd like to know why. Doesn't make sense.
And I've been trying to explain why lol. The why is like a microcosm for why this whole season isn't that great, which is that at some point the show has to actually give us what the supposed payoff will be, at which point we can't be in denial anymore that it might turn out any differently.

Four was a boring, incompetent, setup episode. Five was a beautiful spectacle that retroactively ruined years of foreshadowing and characterization. The difference is just one of scope. People saying four is worse are probably looking at that episode and its merits more individually, while people saying five is worse are looking more at how it actually fits into the broader picture. But one isn't more justified than the other, because endings are typically always about the big picture, they have to invoke what got them there to gain all that past momentum and resolve it to our satisfaction, only now we know for certain that that was never going to happen.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,528
I thought episode 5 was one of if not the best of the season tbh. Touching Jaime and Cersei reunion, hot-blood action with the fights in the streets, the Hound and Arya having a nice moment together, Dany going crazy setting up for the final episode and Euron having that cool line about being the guy who killed Jaime Lannister. I mean if an episode can make me feel bad for Cersei it must be doing something right, right?

Also unrelated but it's thanks to this thread that I've learned penultimate means the second to last, my whole life I've thought it meant the last. Crazy stuff.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,147
And I've been trying to explain why lol. The why is like a microcosm for why this whole season isn't that great, which is that at some point the show has to actually give us what the supposed payoff will be, at which point we can't be in denial anymore that it might turn out any differently.

Four was a boring, incompetent, setup episode. Five was a beautiful spectacle that retroactively ruined years of foreshadowing and characterization. The difference is just one of scope. People saying four is worse are probably looking at that episode and its merits more individually, while people saying five is worse are looking more at how it actually fits into the broader picture. But one isn't more justified than the other, because endings are typically always about the big picture, they have to invoke what got them there to gain all that past momentum and resolve it to our satisfaction, only now we know for certain that that was never going to happen.
Hmn okay, i guess that's the answer i'll have to live with. Haha, don't worry, it's all good. Shame they didn't give the season more attention and more episodes. I guess we can all agree on that.

Don't forget the people who got tattoos lol



Oh shit hahahahaha
 

PoppaBK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,071
Spoilers:

If Dany became a murdeous hitler 2 seasons ago when all these things (losing her dragons, her best friend, her loyal armed servant, her advisors betraying her, etc) happened, THEN I would be on the whole "Well she lost everything, it was always there yada yada yada" BUT this shit happened overnight. All of this just feels like a knee jerk reaction. As others have already beat to death, when it came to her father, his decline was not rapid or happened overnight. It was literally after a long period of time of him losing so much, so his actual change to madness was very fleshed out for it to be justified as a part of his character. I'll admit that yes, I'm just a fan that would have preferred to dislike Dany for gradually becoming murderous IF her past murdering spree was against innocent people rather than slavers and traitors who were trying to kill her or the people she cared about (and not empty threats she never acted on regardless if her advisors snatched her back). But we didn't get to see that, and I really just don't buy that everyone else did because they've already build pre-conceived notion that she was the evil one from the get go with her "faux" hero arc which in all entirety, she truly was on her side of the country. So I'm 100% in the miss me with that BS camp. Everything about that imo idc, is a character assassination.

It truly just sucks. At the end of the day, I have conceded to being ok with the ending because at least we all know how it's going to end and I wanted my person to make it to the end. I didn't really care about the outcome per say, whether this person sits on the throne or not, but as long as they made it to the last episode. So I am content, but this was just not the right way to go about it. This is not how I imagined there death and I just can't accept that. Not like this..
Remember, Dany's original plan was to attack Kings Landing head on with 3 dragons, it was her advisors who talked her out of it. The advisors whose advice lead to constant set backs and losses and who started plotting against her behind her back. Her mentor dead, her only friend dead, her lover/cousin betrayed her, two of her 'children' dead. It's not to hard to see why she may have gone back to her original plan to destroy what she sees as personifying her families enemy, Kings Landing. Played out over 5 or 6 episodes it would have worked, but it just didn't have time to breathe and be believable.
 

Tommolb

Member
Oct 28, 2017
209
Leighton Buzzard, UK
I feel like this is an argument that gets peddle when people can't take criticism of something they like.
No, it's an argument when there is clearly a bandwagon people are jumping on and the mentality has arisen where it's cool to hate on GOT now. If you see my post history you will see I am not uncritical of GOT myself, but equally you will see I take issue with the dog piling and overblown/overly dramatic criticisms too (i.e. "It's the worst show I have ever watched - ever!"). It seems a lot of people had overblown expectations of GOT S8 and were too emotionally invested in it (i.e. "I have watched this series for so long, I'm furious I have wasted my time" comments) and maybe it's cos I am older and more cynical now (43) that I had few expectations of this series, no hype about it and have been able to just enjoy the ride despite the flaws.

If every episode was still getting excellent critical reviews, no one would be saying, "let's wait a while to reflect and see if it's truly good or not "
No, but they should!
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,523
No, it's an argument when there is clearly a bandwagon people are jumping on and the mentality has arisen where it's cool to hate on GOT now. If you see my post history you will see I am not uncritical of GOT myself, but equally you will see I take issue with the dog piling and overblown/overly dramatic criticisms too (i.e. "It's the worst show I have ever watched - ever!"). It seems a lot of people had overblown expectations of GOT S8 and were too emotionally invested in it (i.e. "I have watched this series for so long, I'm furious I have wasted my time" comments) and maybe it's cos I am older and more cynical now (43) that I had few expectations of this series, no hype about it and have been able to just enjoy the ride despite the flaws.



No, but they should!
How do you distinguish between "bandwagon" hate and legitimate growing dissatisfaction with a decline in quality?

GOT is simply not as good as it once was, especially when it comes to character development (arguably it's inital greatest asset), and many people have noticed and are voicing their displeasure..

You may not be as displeased as others, but that doesn't mean their opinion is based on the opinion of others.
 

NoMoreTrolls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,798
Texas
No, it's an argument when there is clearly a bandwagon people are jumping on and the mentality has arisen where it's cool to hate on GOT now. If you see my post history you will see I am not uncritical of GOT myself, but equally you will see I take issue with the dog piling and overblown/overly dramatic criticisms too (i.e. "It's the worst show I have ever watched - ever!"). It seems a lot of people had overblown expectations of GOT S8 and were too emotionally invested in it (i.e. "I have watched this series for so long, I'm furious I have wasted my time" comments) and maybe it's cos I am older and more cynical now (43) that I had few expectations of this series, no hype about it and have been able to just enjoy the ride despite the flaws.
I've thought it was worse and worse since S5. I abhor S8. No bandwagon for me. The end of your post, hilariously, reads as "I'm less invested in the series and thus willing to overlook its obvious flaws. Why can't people who care/cared more than me do the same?"
Weird trying to invalidate the opinions of people who are/were bigger fans than you as mere hate bandwagoning. It's not all down to hyperbole; the impact of the absolute dumpstering of years of characterization in the service of wrapping things up quick so D&D can fuck off to a Galaxy far, far away on one's enjoyment is directly proportional to the investment one has put into the plot and characters on display. Those who were into the show for tits, blood, and dragons are likely pleased. Those who loved the complex characters built up through the first four seasons, shifting from villainous to heroic and everything in between, are left with remarkably little to cling to this season.
 
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Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
7,917
Plus side: you can imagine the tattoo removal laser is Drogon razing the Kings Landing on your thigh!