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Do you think Trump will win in 2020?

  • Yes

    Votes: 504 25.8%
  • No

    Votes: 633 32.4%
  • It's a toss-up

    Votes: 432 22.1%
  • I have no idea

    Votes: 387 19.8%

  • Total voters
    1,956

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
So recently (well, since he was elected, really) I've been seeing this recurring theme in political threads that it doesn't matter what the Democrats do, Trump is going to win re-election next year for sure and nothing we can do will change that. As someone who was overly-optimistic in 2016 that Clinton would defeat him, I totally get approaching with caution, but... really?

Now sometimes when these bold declarations are made, the person who stated it doesn't back it up with anything, though other times they will point to something that confirms their view - the economy, or polling numbers. I understand that not everyone is like the PoliEra regulars, who breathlessly hang onto every poll that gets released and keep up with new developments 24/7. But I thought it'd be interesting to gauge what drives these viewpoints (other than just general pessimism, which... yeah, things suck right now), and maybe I can even brighten some outlooks by pointing out that it might not be all that bad.

First, here's what the electoral map is looking like in 2020, courtesy of Larry Sabato's Crystal Ball:

091719_Elec_College_Ratings_600.png


It's hard to quibble with this at the moment - Sabato assigned the race ratings based on the assumption that 2020 will be a fairly close election. In his write-up of the initial ratings release, Kyle Kondik (the site's editor) acknowledged that making Michigan a Lean D state might be jumping the gun, but said the same of putting Florida down as Lean R (despite the disappointing result in 2018, it's still hosted some very close elections going back to 2010, each election year since featuring at least one marquee race that's decided by about one point or less). There's no indication that Trump has actually gained in any of the states that Clinton won in 2016 - his path to re-election basically requires him to repeat his 2016 performance almost perfectly. Pennsylvania is probably the linchpin to his strategy here - he could lose Wisconsin, Michigan and Arizona but still win if he holds everything else - but it would probably sooner come down to whether he can win Wisconsin and Arizona, both of which would probably stay red before Pennsylvania does (despite his winning margin in PA being slightly larger in 2016).

But sure, that doesn't acknowledge whatever strengths and weaknesses the Democratic nominee will bring with them a year from now. It's easy to say that the nominee will be one of Biden, Sanders or Warren. It's almost impossible to predict, however, what developments will occur during the campaign outside of some very broad generalities (Warren and Sanders will definitely have more trouble attracting some right-leaning independents than Biden would, while Biden will likely make several silly gaffes on the campaign trail). However, I have seen some people suggest that Trump is outright leading all of the candidates, right now, which is patently untrue. In fact, RealClearPolitics' polling aggregates feature Biden leading by 6.3%, Warren winning by 5.4%, and Sanders posting a six-point lead. It's been pretty rare that Trump has led any of the candidates in national polling at all - there are five polls conducted since his initial election where he's beaten Warren (and five ties), two where he beats Sanders, and just one where he beats Biden. Polls are of course a snapshot, and no one is saying that these numbers will be the exact same a year from now, but it makes about as much sense to assume those leads would increase as it does to assume the Democrats will deflate. Biden, Sanders and Trump are all known quantities, and Warren's awareness has been getting up there as well. Democrats also post a 7-point lead in the generic congressional ballot, which suggests the eventual nominee will have a favorable environment to run in.

The only other really compelling point I've seen is that the economy is still good, and true, in past elections "is the economy good? then the incumbent will sail to re-election" has generally been a good rule of thumb. I'm inclined to believe that won't hold up next year though. For one thing, there is no guarantee that the economy will still be good by the time voters cast their ballots, but more importantly, Trump's approval ratings are atrociously bad. The only way a good economy seems to be benefiting him is by keeping his numbers from becoming even worse. By contrast, Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama all went into their re-election campaigns with positive approval ratings - in a presidential race featuring an incumbent, it is the single-most useful metric in determining whether a president will be re-elected. Carter and HW Bush were viewed negatively, both due to the economy as well as other factors. Trump is viewed negatively independently of how well the economy might be doing right now. If we do slip into a recession, you can probably expect things to get that much worse for him.

The only thing Trump seems to have going for him is foreign disinformation campaigns, which... well, yeah, you've got me there. However, the reason that was so effective in 2016 was because it aided a decades-long smear campaign waged against Hillary Clinton by the Republican Party. The inclination towards hating Clinton was already there, the Russians just helped. And it's worth pointing out that it can be reasonably assumed that Clinton only lost the election due to the last-minute release of the Comey letter. If not for that, she very likely would have won, given the direct effect it had on her polling numbers nationally as well as in the crucial swing states, regardless of her issues as a candidate and whether or not she campaigned in certain states.

This ended up being a lot longer than I thought it would be (narrator: it wasn't), but I figure I'd get a few talking points out of the way in anticipation of some of the most obvious rationales for why Trump will win. I'm leaning towards him losing at this point, just based on everything I outlined above, but I of course can't say that with absolute certainty. I probably won't even do that on election night until the minute it's called for his opponent.

That being said, remember the prophecy:

VBEyk.png


While midterm results are never exactly 1:1 with presidential (see the predictive power 2010's elections had over 2012, i.e. none), 2018 was unique in that its turnout came in just below presidential levels, and Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan all going hard blue in a high turnout election should scare the shit out of any Republican strategist.

(and this picture is outdated: Democrats did indeed win the Congressional vote in Arizona, and held the GOP margin under five points in Georgia, Ohio and Montana. They also probably would have won the Congressional vote in North Carolina, had Walter Jones in their 3rd district faced a Democratic opponent)
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,690
The Great Dark Beyond
I was convinced he would lose dramatically in 2016 and was incredibly wrong. But I have to believe we won't make the same mistake twice. Here's hoping I'm right.

Warren 2020.

or Bernie, if I have to.
 

maxxpower

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
California
Completely depends on who the Dem nominee is. If it's Biden I could hopefully see the hard-left liberals going out to vote anyway just to get rid of Trump. If Warren or Bernie get the nomination then I could see many swing and centrist voters not voting or voting for Trump or a third-party candidate just because they are not on board with a leftist liberal agenda.
 

Vagabond

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,319
United States
My faith in American people is pretty much shot. His win in 2016 was depressing and a wake up call that Americans are by and large racist, sexist, and stupid, and allowed themselves to get manipulated in ways like gerrymandering that allowed for his win.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,431
It's the Dem's game to lose.

And in the words of TFS Shenron: "can't wait to see how you fuck this one up".
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,985
I don't think he'll win but I know a good number of people who say things like "I hate him but Trump's gonna win in 2020 because the Democrats are too socialist." Literally something I hear all the time from my in-laws and some people in my own family.

I think these are mostly closet Trump supporters who "hate the libs" more than they dislike Trump.

I don't think he'll win, but I didn't think he'd win in 2016 either, so take that however you'd like.
 

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,111
Here's what I will say. It's cruel, cold and while I empathize with the millions upon millions who will be affected, if this country re-elects Trump it deserves whatever follows.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,053
I don't think he'll win... But it's far, far from a lock.

We don't know what the landscape will look like a year from now. Or who the candidate is going to be.

I would feel a lot more confident if it were Biden, even though I am voting for Warren.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
An election is always a toss-up. You can't know beforehand what bizarre external factors might affect the internal dynamics.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
I'm not stupid enough to underestimate my enemy. Always fight like you're on the losing side.
 

electricblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,991
It is very very hard for a President, even one with legal problems a low approval rating and flagging economy, to lose reelection.
You basically need an insurrection from the right
 

SoH

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,734
I don't think Trump is a lock. I do think it is foolish to convince yourself a second term is an impossibility.
 

Duffking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,695
If Biden gets the nomination Trump wins assuming he's not been impeached already. Otherwise, no.
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
I'm still on a firm yes.

he will do anything to win. And his supporters support his behavior.
 

PKrockin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,260
I don't think those Trump vs. Biden/Warren/Sanders polls are even worth mentioning, as they apparently have about zero predictive power this long before the election.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,944
The world is a bullshit hell dimension where the worst possible thing always happens so yeah probably, they'll just fabricate election results if they need to. It's already been shown that they are amoral and completely immune to consequences because they control all the mechanisms that could theoretically punish them.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Look at everything he has done and that has happened in the last 3 years and then look at the current polls where he's around 49%.

There's your answer.

Biden is gonna take the Dem nom and the choice is gonna be between MAGA like the 50s or MAGA like 2015. And everyone who would rather look forward and build better things will once again have no one to vote for and then everyone will wonder why people don't vote.
 

Loan Wolf

Member
Nov 9, 2017
5,090
It's a toss up for me: Trump has the advantage of incumbency, a flourishing economy from the Obama era, and the electoral college.

However, a lot of his policies though are making him look bad outside of his base (dumb GOP voters/complicit and wealthy individuals) and energizing Democrats. Many statistics show there are more registered Democrats nationwide so having them turnout at the same rate is Republicans can easily swing in our favor; doesn't help that Trump is losing suburban voters, the ones in the Midwest helped broke that blue wall in the 2016 election.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,980
In a universe where Donald Trump can be elected President of the United States even once, anything can happen.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,720
i doubt it. pretty much everyone hates him now. the only people that love him are just very vocal.
 

DQDQDQ

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
139
Definitely not a lock at this point. He's probably got a better chance than your average Democrat believes, however, and that's a problem for Democrats.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
I simply wouldn't take ANY risk if i was an American.
Just fucking vote.
Same. I'm marking my calendar. I'd hope we've gone through enough that abstainers have learned the power of voting enough to help push Trump's ass out but I can also see them doubling down as well. I trust alot of women, LGBTQ+ people, PoCs and all the intersections between to make the right call but everyone outside of those marginalized, I've got no clue.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
I have absolutely no trust in the American public to release us from this collective nightmare.
Prove me wrong, I double dare you to prove me wrong.
 

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,365
Boston
It's all down to turnout and GOTV. If normies show up, Dems sweep.

If they don't, the GOP base re-elects its Messiah
 

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,111
K I don't wanna turn this into a Biden thread but I truly and honestly do not understand Biden supporters.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,141
Healthcare cost will probably be the biggest issue next year. What do y'all think Trumps angle will be?
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,264
I have absolutely no trust in the American public to release us from this collective nightmare.
Prove me wrong, I double dare you to prove me wrong.

Maybe I should bet a huge amount of money on him winning, that way I'll at least have something either way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,086
Anybody other than Bernie and Warren (read: Biden), Trump wins. If Warren is the nom, very close with slight advantage to Trump. If Bernie, still very close but slightly larger advantage to Bernie.

All within margin of error ofc. One good enough slip-up by either side in the general can decide it.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,746
I honestly don't think he will win. Even his vocal supporters will most likely vote against him without loosing face. The dude just doesn't do his job properly (or even the bare minimum of it) and I think everybody is aware of that.
Of course after 2016, I'm not willing to bet on anything.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
Maybe I should bet a huge amount of money on him winning, that way I'll at least have something either way.
Always have a good reason to laugh or cry.
Then again that makes what you're doing predictable but still at least you have a nice bonus or we're finally released from the Cthulu's vivid dream
 

sgtnosboss

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,786
He will win if it's him vs Biden, and then even more likely I think if it's him vs any of the other top noms
 

electricblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,991
I honestly don't think he will win. Even his vocal supporters will most likely vote against him without loosing face. The dude just doesn't do his job properly (or even the bare minimum of it) and I think everybody is aware of that.

His supporters think the government is a joke and it doesn't matter who is in charge of it, so there's no reason to vote against him
 
OP
OP
Aaron

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
That prediction has Trump losing Florida. He's never losing Florida.
Just to clarify, that's not a prediction of anything for 2020, that's the Electoral College map colored in by which candidate won the Congressional vote in 2018.

Silver's point with it was that it's very similar to Obama's 2012 map (the only difference is swapping Arizona for Ohio), and given the turnout in 2018 compared to normal midterm turnout (which is comically low), it may be more useful in predicting 2020 than midterms have in the past.

Or it might not! Though, even if Democrats did lose Florida on that map, they'd still win. One of the points he makes in the article is that even if the Democratic nominee only carried all the states that voted for the Democrats for Congress by five points or more last year, they'd win. Hell, you could bump that up to seven points and it would still hold true, Wisconsin and Michigan went for the Democrats by just under eight points and Pennsylvania went for the Democrats by double digits.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
7,980
I didn't think Bush would get a second term.
I didn't think Trump would get elected.
I have lost faith in the American people knowing what they should be doing.
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
Healthcare cost will probably be the biggest issue next year. What do y'all think Trumps angle will be?

Easy answer

1. pretend he cares about pre existing conditions

2. Send his DOJ to supreme court saying Obamacare is illegal and preexisting conditions are the bees knees.
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