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Oct 25, 2017
20,229
Given the discussion in multiple threads regarding sexual assault, toxic masculinity, and how some view it as mental illness problem I wanted to share this piece from WaPo that went out over the weekend. I think it helps to shed some light on the topics especially with regards to how men think it's ok to behave when women turn them down. There is no specific details on the men, but I think the stories are varied enough to highlight how prevalent these things are. Especially on the subject of them happening in any situation.

Original Editorial: https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...43eefab5daf_story.html?utm_term=.fe68b816004d

A woman I know was 53 years old the last time she rejected a stranger's advances, and it went badly. A man on the New York subway kept asking her out, complimenting her breasts and butt, though he used more vulgar terms. When she told him she wasn't interested, he pivoted to yelling, "I'm going to f--- you up, you fat bitch," until she asked the other passengers to take out their cellphones and document what was happening. This was just a few days ago.

Another woman I know was 15 the first time she rejected a stranger's advances, and the rejection went badly. This was several years ago. She was walking the family dog in a New England suburb when a man in a car pulled up and smiled. When she didn't smile back, he started to follow her, slowly, down the street. After a block she cut through a random backyard and ran home, 10 minutes of panic while her happy dog thought the whole thing was an adventure.

A woman I know was in a bar with friends when a man asked if he could buy her a drink. She declined, and he angrily called her a "bitch." She was alarmed, but she was also confused. Was she rude for rejecting him? Had she done something wrong?

A woman I know in New York once ignored a passerby's order for her to "smile," so he reached out and grabbed her crotch; she was 12. A woman I know in Maryland told a customer at the store where she worked that she had a fiance, but he still figured out her schedule and showed up repeatedly to harass her. A woman I know in Texas last week deflected a new acquaintance's text message with an "LOL"; he then left her five enraged voicemails in a row telling her to "f--- off," because he wasn't laughing.

It could have been worse. These women kept saying it could have been worse.

A woman I'm close with once got on the bus after midnight for her night shift at work. After a few stops, a man her age got on, too. The bus was mostly empty but he chose the seat next to her and tried to strike up a conversation.

When she didn't reciprocate, he said, "Hey, are you ignoring me?"

When she still didn't answer, he grabbed her leg.

When she tried to stand up and move away, he yelled, "Hey, bitch, I'm talking to you," and grabbed her again, this time violently.

She shook him loose, and the bus driver noticed what was happening, and made the bad man get off the bus, and as a thank-you, the woman baked the bus driver cookies the next day.
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,629
Seems like easy distracting to write off this sort of thing as mental illness as opposed to the culture of toxic masculinity it really is.
 

SkyMasterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,001
Seems like easy distracting to write off this sort of thing as mental illness as opposed to the culture of toxic masculinity it really is.
Yep, if it's mental illness, a lot of dudes have it then.

I mean, how many times have you seen screencaps of two people talking via a dating app and whenever the woman ignores of turns down the dude, more than likey the guy becomes an asshole about it. It's really fucking weird.

I see it all the time. Not to mention at work with the few woman I work with, constantly being hit on by employees. Very few are dicks about it there though. Which is a nice change.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." --Attributed to Margaret Atwood
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
I was once in an elevator ride with an attractive woman and another random dude. He tried to strike up a conversation with her but was clearly rejected . She got off a floor below us, but once we were alone the guy showed his most disgusting nature in front of me. He said she was stuck up and a bitch to him but he'd f her anyway. Little did this douche bag know I don't stand for that shit so i gave him an earful. Took a lot not to get into a fight with the guy. Moral of the story is we need to teach the men in our society how to treat women. If you ever see something say something.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Question, say you were to carry a taser, or even mace, and you used them as a response to battery, would a woman be suceptable to charges too? If so that's fucked up.

Just wondering if any women on here have stories about using pepper spray.

Like absolutely I would be tasing and peppering dudes if it happened to me but it would be super shitty if the cops like booked you too.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,369
A woman I know in New York once ignored a passerby's order for her to "smile," so he reached out and grabbed her crotch; she was 12.

Ugh. This whole post made me feel disgusted but this especially. Ugh.
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,745
Growing up in New York I remember constantly hearing dudes yelling at women. "Hey Ma!" They would be ignored and those yells would turn on a dime talking about how ugly or stupid they were.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
It's really a huge issue. As a guy, I really didn't realize how prevalent this stuff was until I met my wife. She and every single girl she had talked to about this had at least one firsthand account of an encounter with some creepy asshole. Catcalls, stalking, repeated unwanted approaches despite repeated rejections and avoidance, and so on. Guys acting like this is completely unacceptable.

It's why so many women will make indirect rejections such as giving wrong phone numbers and such. Too many men will go fucking crazy if politely declined directly, and the woman has no way of knowing if the guy (who could have been acting perfectly nice to her two seconds ago!) is a fucking creep, so she understandably takes the safe route by avoiding the potential issue entirely. Yeah, it's not nice, but it's a precaution that's completely and totally understandable, given the potential risks involved. Women shouldn't have to do it - men should be expected to act like civilized, mature people - but there are more than enough examples of guys flipping the fuck out at rejection that makes it a valid course of action.

It's not a mental illness problem. It's a social problem where somehow, too many men somehow learn (or are taught?) that acting this way around women is acceptable behavior. They are taught that women owe them something when they ask them to do something for them (they don't). They are taught that being rejected, which understandably hurts, is an acceptable reason to become an angry, aggressive psycho in retaliation (it's not). Because most guys are physically stronger than most girls, they act in a way that that they never would against someone who could fight back against them. Because of that, too many men think they can act inconsiderately and aggressively towards women without consequence.

It's not. Fucking stop it. Think about what you're doing, and whether or not you may be acting in a way that makes women uncomfortable.

Women owe you nothing. Don't ask them to do shit for you. If you're interested in someone, immediately asking them to do something for you is not a way to start a conversation. You wouldn't start a conversation with any other stranger by asking him or her to do something for you.

If you ask someone out and get rejected, accept the rejection and move on. Sure, it hurts to get rejected. But you asked an honest question and got an honest answer. There's no "loser" in this situation. There's nothing to fight back against. A question is a request for an answer. You got an answer. It's not the answer you wanted, and it's understandably disappointing, but there's no reason to get angry about it. Move on with your life.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,008
I can't say I've ever had the urge to harass women in this way, or unwanted touching, grabbing, sneaking into their shower, etc. Obviously sometimes there is an underlying mental illness involved that causes men and women to escalate to harassment at times, which can be more common in men, but in general there seems to be a more pervasive attitude with men thinking that's it's ok to be shitty towards people you are attracted to.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
"Man kills woman after violent altercation in public"

Yeah but why did she escalate the situation?
That's one way for us to get fucking murdered I guess :/
Sounds great if you're a group of people watching it happen. Not so much if you're the woman being harassed.

Exactly right
Even in public? What else is there to be done aside from politely asking men to not sexually assault women and hoping for the best?
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,452
Sweden
as a man, for a long time, i didn't know how common this was. people like my sister kept telling me, but i thought she was just overreacting. as i got older, i became friends with more and more women, and finally, after hearing similar stories from so many people, i started to realize that so many stories could not just be an exaggeration or a coincidence

articles like this are needed and need to be spread to as many people as possible. more people need to be pink-pilled
 

NoRéN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,623
We need to spread the word - if a man grabs you in a public place like these stories, start throwing elbows.
Too risky for women.

As a man, however, I do that. The repercussions have been small and the harassed have always been appreciative. It's also led to others getting the courage to stand up for others as well.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,304
Canada
It's really a huge issue. As a guy, I really didn't realize how prevalent this stuff was until I met my wife. She and every single girl she had talked to about this had at least one firsthand account of an encounter with some creepy asshole. Catcalls, stalking, repeated unwanted approaches despite repeated rejections and avoidance, and so on. Guys acting like this is completely unacceptable.

It's why so many women will make indirect rejections such as giving wrong phone numbers and such. Too many men will go fucking crazy if politely declined directly, and the woman has no way of knowing if the guy (who could have been acting perfectly nice to her two seconds ago!) is a fucking creep, so she understandably takes the safe route by avoiding the potential issue entirely. Yeah, it's not nice, but it's a precaution that's completely and totally understandable, given the potential risks involved. Women shouldn't have to do it - men should be expected to act like civilized, mature people - but there are more than enough examples of guys flipping the fuck out at rejection that makes it a valid course of action.

It's not a mental illness problem. It's a social problem where somehow, too many men somehow learn (or are taught?) that acting this way around women is acceptable behavior. They are taught that women owe them something when they ask them to do something for them (they don't). They are taught that being rejected, which understandably hurts, is an acceptable reason to become an angry, aggressive psycho in retaliation (it's not). Because most guys are physically stronger than most girls, they act in a way that that they never would against someone who could fight back against them. Because of that, too many men think they can act inconsiderately and aggressively towards women without consequence.

It's not. Fucking stop it. Think about what you're doing, and whether or not you may be acting in a way that makes women uncomfortable.

Women owe you nothing. Don't ask them to do shit for you. If you're interested in someone, immediately asking them to do something for you is not a way to start a conversation. You wouldn't start a conversation with any other stranger by asking him or her to do something for you.

If you ask someone out and get rejected, accept the rejection and move on. Sure, it hurts to get rejected. But you asked an honest question and got an honest answer. There's no "loser" in this situation. There's nothing to fight back against. A question is a request for an answer. You got an answer. It's not the answer you wanted, and it's understandably disappointing, but there's no reason to get angry about it. Move on with your life.

giphy.gif


There's also a lot of correlation between stuff here and the "Sexualization" thread on the Gaming side. We tell people we're not comfortable with it, and people tell US why WE are wrong to feel that way for your entertainment. It has some real consequences that we live through day in and day out.

We tell people we are harassed and objectified OFTEN and nobody wants to listen. We are essentially told we are not worth listening to. It's depressing
 
Last edited:

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,306
New York
How much of a bitter loser do you have to be to not be able to take a god damned L.

You gave it a shot. You failed. How is that HER fault? Not ever person is gonna dig you...
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,304
Canada
How much of a bitter loser do you have to be to not be able to take a god damned L.

You gave it a shot. You failed. How is that HER fault? Not ever person is gonna dig you...

I honestly don't understand why you would want to be with a person who clearly has no interest in you. What fulfillment and goal do you get from that???
 

dantevsninjas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
518
Yet another systemic cultural issue in this country that we instead choose to treat as a series of isolated incidents. Honestly, it's fucking embarrassing.
 
Mar 9, 2018
606
I want to talk about something, not to defend at all, as this behavior is entirely indefensible. But, what it feels like to be rejected.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it depends on stages too, like if you've done something to show who you are to them, like shared your interests, etc. It can feel like everything you like everything about you, is now shot, is now rejected. I suspect lots of lonely men are rejected to only go back to the few things they have only to suddenly hate what they like that drives them to live, to cope, rejection can feel like total rejection, as a person, as an individual, especially when you have less, or are poor,or have little social life where you can be allowed to express who you are.men are taught to hide their emotions, and this leads to very little sense of validity, unfortunately,men are taught often that their most personal feelings can only be understood by a woman, so too often they keep the things that matter most to them secret, and then shove it on a girl, and feel totally crushed when their secrets are exposed as really lacking value, as they can then feel.
A big problem is lack of exposure, lack of exercising certain feelings, going back to toxic masculinity. There is no justification for this awful behavior, but sometimes rejection can make you almost suicidal, and unfortunately that feeling is sometimes turned to anger, after all, it's also not a good luck for men to be sad, as far as attracting women. A lot of this stuff is ingrained in us from a very young age to where it influences us subconsciously. The patriarchy is so deeply ingrained in our society we can't even begin to recognize how some things we've always done play into it, see Beauvoir and her constant "overthinking".
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
I want to talk about something, not to defend at all, as this behavior is entirely indefensible. But, what it feels like to be rejected.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it depends on stages too, like if you've done something to show who you are to them, like shared your interests, etc. It can feel like everything you like everything about you, is now shot, is now rejected. I suspect lots of lonely men are rejected to only go back to the few things they have only to suddenly hate what they like that drives them to live, to cope, rejection can feel like total rejection, as a person, as an individual, especially when you have less, or are poor,or have little social life where you can be allowed to express who you are.men are taught to hide their emotions, and this leads to very little sense of validity, unfortunately,men are taught often that their most personal feelings can only be understood by a woman, so too often they keep the things that matter most to them secret, and then shove it on a girl, and feel totally crushed when their secrets are exposed as really lacking value, as they can then feel.
A big problem is lack of exposure, lack of exercising certain feelings, going back to toxic masculinity. There is no justification for this awful behavior, but sometimes rejection can make you almost suicidal, and unfortunately that feeling is sometimes turned to anger, after all, it's also not a good luck for men to be sad, as far as attracting women. A lot of this stuff is ingrained in us from a very young age to where it influences us subconsciously. The patriarchy is so deeply ingrained in our society we can't even begin to recognize how some things we've always done play into it, see Beauvoir and her constant "overthinking".
These guys are creeps and predators. Please don't project your own insecurities onto them.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,306
New York
I want to talk about something, not to defend at all, as this behavior is entirely indefensible. But, what it feels like to be rejected.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it depends on stages too, like if you've done something to show who you are to them, like shared your interests, etc. It can feel like everything you like everything about you, is now shot, is now rejected. I suspect lots of lonely men are rejected to only go back to the few things they have only to suddenly hate what they like that drives them to live, to cope, rejection can feel like total rejection, as a person, as an individual, especially when you have less, or are poor,or have little social life where you can be allowed to express who you are.men are taught to hide their emotions, and this leads to very little sense of validity, unfortunately,men are taught often that their most personal feelings can only be understood by a woman, so too often they keep the things that matter most to them secret, and then shove it on a girl, and feel totally crushed when their secrets are exposed as really lacking value, as they can then feel.
A big problem is lack of exposure, lack of exercising certain feelings, going back to toxic masculinity. There is no justification for this awful behavior, but sometimes rejection can make you almost suicidal, and unfortunately that feeling is sometimes turned to anger, after all, it's also not a good luck for men to be sad, as far as attracting women. A lot of this stuff is ingrained in us from a very young age to where it influences us subconsciously. The patriarchy is so deeply ingrained in our society we can't even begin to recognize how some things we've always done play into it, see Beauvoir and her constant "overthinking".

I mean I get that rejection hurts but in the context of the subject we are discussing my response can only be:

Tough Shit

None of your feelings are some random human beings fault or responsibility. I know that's not what you're saying so please don't take this as an attack on you for posting this perspective but I feel strongly that all that shit ain't got nothing to do with why someone else needs to be treated like shit cause they're afraid. And folks wonder why ghosting is a thing.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,161
Toronto
One time on the subway, years ago, some 20-something guy started harassing my daughter and making her very uncomfortable. I stood up and told him to stop it and that she was 14, and he lost his fucking mind. I stood rigid and stared him down while he got in my face and walked back and forth through the car screaming and threatening to kick my ass, and his buddy meekly tried to hold him back.

We quickly got off at the next stop, but I still feel lucky he didn't have a knife or anything.
 

Sybil

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,642
I don't understand what pulls men to act like this. Like, if your first shot didn't work out how is grabbing at her and/or calling her a bitch gonna make it better??? It scares me.
I remember in high school, my friend's ex - who recently she had broke up with - came to our school and demanded her to come talk to her outside during class (he was homeschooled so he didn't go to this school). A guy classmate went to see him and they found knives in the back of his car. what the fuck
 

Fiction

Fanthropologist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,757
Elf Tower, New Mexico
A guy at work who I was live chatting with started hitting on me. A customer, who couldn't hear my voice, or see my face...only had the picture of Jania I use as an avatar and my friendly, customer service typing.

He repeatedly asked what office I worked in, for my twitter and snapchat, if he could request me everytime. Wanted to be escalated to my manager to tell them how awesome I'd been. Since I'm not supposed to close a ticket first, I had to endure it.

Not the worst experience I've ever had, but goddamn dude, I could be a 400 Male in his 80s. The fuck you doing trying to chat up someone you will never talk to again?
 

Gakidou

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,612
pip pip cheerio fish & chips
Even in public? What else is there to be done aside from politely asking men to not sexually assault women and hoping for the best?

Crazy how a horrible injustice that's been going on for countless generations doesn't have 1 easy fix that any victim can do.
Guess we'll have to change culture and become more civilized ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what a hassle



Am hype for dudes to also realize how young it actually starts. Like most women of my generation started receiving inappropriate sexual comments and even advances from about.... age 10-13. Yeah that's right, they be getting in there before ya even meet aunt flo.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,417
These guys are creeps and predators. Please don't project your own insecurities onto them.

I disagree with this, because part of the issue is that we "other" the offending parties so much to the point where we start to think it's impossible for the average Joe to be a monster. We instead have to accept that 'nice, normal men' do this stuff, too.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,306
New York
One time on the subway, years ago, some 20-something guy started harassing my daughter and making her very uncomfortable. I stood up and told him to stop it and that she was 14, and he lost his fucking mind. I stood rigid and stared him down while he got in my face and walked back and forth through the car screaming and threatening to kick my ass, and his buddy meekly tried to hold him back.

We quickly got off at the next stop, but I still feel lucky he didn't have a knife or anything.

You're better than me. I'd have fucking snapped. Christ. My daughter is 3. Not ready for her to deal with this.

And I notice all these posts about this issue where us fellas ain't really understand this type of shit women go through until we got married or had daughters ourselves. Im not knocking us but that's another part of the problem. Good side is that shit I hope will change as more of us communicate amongst ourselves.

Some men are just cowards.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
There is too much glorification of violence, greed and the overt objectification of women in our society.

You can see it in the media we buy, the music we listen to and the people we elect as President.
 

Mr Jones

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,747
How much of a bitter loser do you have to be to not be able to take a god damned L.

You gave it a shot. You failed. How is that HER fault? Not ever person is gonna dig you...

You already know the answer, fam. It's two things: Face, and power.

Face - It's fucking embarrassing for some to get turned down. "Fuck you, you fucking ugly skank-ass bitch!" See, I showed her. Now my buddies won't clown me.

Power - She should be fucking HONORED to have me talking to her . "Yo the fuck do you think you walking away from? Why you muggin?" *Grabbing her arm hard* "Maybe I should wipe that look off your face..."

Can't take an L if you don't even think you losin.
 

pizoxuat

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,458
Crazy how a horrible injustice that's been going on for countless generations doesn't have 1 easy fix that any victim can do.
Guess we'll have to change culture and become more civilized ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what a hassle



Am hype for dudes to also realize how young it actually starts. Like most women of my generation started receiving inappropriate sexual comments and even advances from about.... age 10-13. Yeah that's right, they be getting in there before ya even meet aunt flo.

So fucking true. If we disqualify my stepdad for being a hideous creep my entire childhood because he wasn't a stranger, the first time I was sexually harassed by a teenage boy I was about 7-8 years old. The first time I was sexually harassed by a grown man, I was 10-11 years old. I remember both incidents with clarity.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,417
I want to talk about something, not to defend at all, as this behavior is entirely indefensible. But, what it feels like to be rejected.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it depends on stages too, like if you've done something to show who you are to them, like shared your interests, etc. It can feel like everything you like everything about you, is now shot, is now rejected. I suspect lots of lonely men are rejected to only go back to the few things they have only to suddenly hate what they like that drives them to live, to cope, rejection can feel like total rejection, as a person, as an individual, especially when you have less, or are poor,or have little social life where you can be allowed to express who you are.men are taught to hide their emotions, and this leads to very little sense of validity, unfortunately,men are taught often that their most personal feelings can only be understood by a woman, so too often they keep the things that matter most to them secret, and then shove it on a girl, and feel totally crushed when their secrets are exposed as really lacking value, as they can then feel.
A big problem is lack of exposure, lack of exercising certain feelings, going back to toxic masculinity. There is no justification for this awful behavior, but sometimes rejection can make you almost suicidal, and unfortunately that feeling is sometimes turned to anger, after all, it's also not a good luck for men to be sad, as far as attracting women. A lot of this stuff is ingrained in us from a very young age to where it influences us subconsciously. The patriarchy is so deeply ingrained in our society we can't even begin to recognize how some things we've always done play into it, see Beauvoir and her constant "overthinking".

Your feelings aren't invalid, but like...you gotta understand that the answer is to keep a good self-esteem and positive outlets in your life, not living life from rejection to rejection. Rejections happen to anyone, and keeping your head above that doesn't just come naturally to people. It takes some work to maintain it.

But too many men seem to feel like the only way to deal is with violence, and that's an unacceptable lack of personal responsibility.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
Crazy how a horrible injustice that's been going on for countless generations doesn't have 1 easy fix that any victim can do.
Guess we'll have to change culture and become more civilized ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what a hassle



Am hype for dudes to also realize how young it actually starts. Like most women of my generation started receiving inappropriate sexual comments and even advances from about.... age 10-13. Yeah that's right, they be getting in there before ya even meet aunt flo.
Changing culture is slow and I feel frustrated and powerless just by hearing about this shit. And I'm not even the one getting groped. Is it really that dangerous to fight back? I can't find any stats.
 

ironjoe

Member
Jan 26, 2018
702
NYC
I've known about this kind of stuff for a long, time. Its super depressing and as a parent of two daughters, I dread the day when they start having to deal with this. My oldest, (at 11 no fucking less!) has already had boys in her class ask her for sexual favors. I told my daughter to start laying out a little physical retribution, but unfortunately her first reaction was to laugh it off. She did not want to take my advice of letting people with loud mouths catch a few hands. It's hard for her to hear these things, and I can tell she instinctually wants to let it blow over. He thankfully stopped, cause someone was going to end up hurt over it. This was in NYC of all places too, so these boys should know what to not say.

The craziest part is how so many people don't think this is happening. Myself, I knew this because I believed the first woman who told me about it. I knew she wasn't making shit up for attention. But to so many men of the world, anytime someone complains of racism, or sexual harassment, or PTSD, or any intensely personal experience someone else wants to pretend didn't happen, the first reaction is to believe she's exaggerating. I should say that some women are complicit in this as well, turning on their own, because they can't or won't deal with it. Particularly older women in my parent's generation, who take every complaint as whining or a lie.