In this thread I didn't even say change the genre, I said I wanted more interaction. But now that you bring it up I wouldn't mind a main entry being action oriented either.
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The Pokémon Switch Dilemma: Tradition or Innovation?
- Thread starter SalvaPot
- Start date
In this thread I didn't even say change the genre, I said I wanted more interaction. But now that you bring it up I wouldn't mind a main entry being action oriented either.
Then it wouldnt be a main entry.
They just released Pokken for people who wanted a "real time pokemon game that looked like the anime". Just compare the sales and reviews of that with the turn based games.
You can't compare those to in terms of sales since one is billed as main entry the other is not. That is a disingenuous comparison.
Why does Pokken need to be billed as a main entry in the first place? If that's what you want to play, go play it.
I rep gen 1 all day, but you guys have no idea how big of a mistake that would be.
Get over this "make a new game, but only use the creatures I recognize/ like" mindset.
All of my guesses that may be plausible in the next Pokemon Switch:
- Story will be in a completely new region, probably Australia, as that is the region where none of their predecessors were referencing to, while also being a really great region to look at. Australian Outback, anyone?
- We don't have a kangaroo Pokémon yet.
- New Zealand may be involved to be where Pokemon Elite Four is at.
- Story may include plots of the adventures of Looker and the Interpol investigation.
- Perhaps a story plot revolving around how a person is taking control of the Ultra Beasts via science and technogies?
- Due to the complexity of introducing competitive and casual gameplay, as well as meta-gameplay, a long tutorial is inevitable. I do not see how it is possible to teach a 8 years old kid to play with such complex mechanic, such as EV training, berry power-ups (Pokécubes?), breeding and egg groups, etc.
- I'm 50% inclining to believe Game Freak may have heard of the criticism of having a long tutorial, and will split the tutorial up into optional chunks that players can choose what to play.
- Movement is 360 degrees, thanks to Gen 7 laying down the basics.
- Land is probably restrictive, with hills and cliffs you can't walk over /jump on, like Gen 7.
- There is no immersive transitions between Overworld and Indoors. It will just be a fade-to-black type of transition.
- The typical regions includes Mountains, Snowy Mountains, Desert, Grassy Plains, Swamp, Forest, Safari Parks, Caves/Cavern, and Urban cities.
- Less of an Altar, more like a Legendary Pokémon overseeing the region, I suppose.
- It's going to start out with the protagonist getting old enough to get their first Pokémon, with a rival. I don't know if Game Freak is going to revisit gender-based rivalry (If you're male, your rival is female, and vice versa).
- For Gyms, it's going to be something along the lines of, "What would happen if a region decides to remove Pokémon Leagues?". I'm pretty sure they would have these discussions while in their meeting rooms.
I didn't say it needs it, the comparison of side content to a main entry is unfair.
Again, we still need the definitive version of the current gameplay.
Seamless transitions.
Zero loading times.
Faster than BW battles.
No more black or white screens between menus.
Better animations, including custom touches like Blastoise using cannons.
Correct Pokemon sizes.
Z Moves backgrounds actually matching the battleground.
Seamless transitions.
Zero loading times.
Faster than BW battles.
No more black or white screens between menus.
Better animations, including custom touches like Blastoise using cannons.
Correct Pokemon sizes.
Z Moves backgrounds actually matching the battleground.
I want them to bring back triple and rotation battles, those are fun to have once in a while casually, and also in the scenario that newer versions get in the same generation introducing new forms, hope they can add the ability to update new species to the games, it was awful that XY couldn't add the newer forms/MegaEvolutions introduced in ORAS
come on, correct sizes is not so unreal, it happened in Coliseum and XD
come on, correct sizes is not so unreal, it happened in Coliseum and XD
A different game would be the time to experience a change. It is not like Pokemon is the only game we can purchase. There are other games out there. If we want to play a game with different game-play elements, then play a different game.
Or we can play a Pokemon game that is something we never played before. That reinvents himself for a new console generation.
Er, what made you the authority on what's memorable or not here,the xenoblade games are known for their memorable settings and characters.
And if the combat is different, that Pokemon game can do very well being a spin-off
If people want Pokemon to be a completely different game, why should it still be pokemon main entry?
They have a game constantly selling around 10 million with every main entry.
They constantly release spin offs for people who dont care about gameplay and only care about the designs: Pokken, Mistery dungeon, Conquest, Snap, Puzzle League, Go, PokePark, Art Academy, Dash, Rumble,etc...
Now people want a Pokemon game that doesnt play like the main pokemon games (another one to the long list of spin offs) but they want it to be a main entry that replaces the JRPGs that have been carrying Nintendo portables for 25 years.
I got a Switch a week ago and while playing Zelda I've thought to myself numerous times how fun a Pokémon with this hardware could be. A Nintendo-quality open world with wild Pokémon roaming the fields.... the potential of the Pokémon IP in a AAA console release is almost unfathomable.
In a perfect world where they can have all the $$$ they need and take all the time they wan't I'd love them to just start again with a lot of the mechanics of the game.
I'd love a battle system in the shape of Ni No Kuni where you have the 3D take with a 2D art style, but can revolve the camera etc. All the Pokemon would be funny animated - pretty much impossible to do at this point unless they just start with the first 251 Pokemon or so, hence my initial statement. But it would be glorious. Failing this a ATB battle system like FFX-2 would be pretty nice.
I'd also love an open world style of game a bit like BoTW where you can go where you want when you want and tackle things in what ever order, so you dont have to complete the gyms in a particular order.
I'd love a battle system in the shape of Ni No Kuni where you have the 3D take with a 2D art style, but can revolve the camera etc. All the Pokemon would be funny animated - pretty much impossible to do at this point unless they just start with the first 251 Pokemon or so, hence my initial statement. But it would be glorious. Failing this a ATB battle system like FFX-2 would be pretty nice.
I'd also love an open world style of game a bit like BoTW where you can go where you want when you want and tackle things in what ever order, so you dont have to complete the gyms in a particular order.
I think given the fatigue people have with the conventions of Pokemon and the shiny new hardware, I'd want them to go crazy ambitious with this one. Though I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I'll take a totally safe, unchanged addition to the series too. I guess if there's a time to innovate, it's now.
Why expect any change for a game? I just hope my favorite franchises never change and just release the same game all the time.
What a silly post.
My only thing is, don't ask for Pokemon Breath of the Wild and expect this game in 2018, or early 2019 for that matter.
With that said, I do want more freedom in the world. I feel like people are always going to criticize the battle system as long as it's turn based, despite the changes they've made in the past 20 years, so work on presentation these. Seamless transitions would go a long way there.
Personally, my wishlist would be, minimal story, additional side quests, world traversal that allows me to go in different directions (doesn't have to be ANY city in ANY order, I want options or branching paths), improve the presentation (seamless transitions to battle, even though I do like the trainer art) and the return of PSS.
A reworking of the EV, IV, nature system.
With that said, I do want more freedom in the world. I feel like people are always going to criticize the battle system as long as it's turn based, despite the changes they've made in the past 20 years, so work on presentation these. Seamless transitions would go a long way there.
Personally, my wishlist would be, minimal story, additional side quests, world traversal that allows me to go in different directions (doesn't have to be ANY city in ANY order, I want options or branching paths), improve the presentation (seamless transitions to battle, even though I do like the trainer art) and the return of PSS.
A reworking of the EV, IV, nature system.
How is it silly, exactly? What's silly about not wanting one of your favorite series to change genres for little to no reason?
Who said anything about changing genres? Neither the post I quoted nor the post it quotes said anything about changing genres.
I feel it's silly to say that Pokemon doesn't need to change and innovate anything ever because other games can do that.
"If we want to play a game with different game-play elements"
Changing genres was clearly what the post you quoted was arguing against.
New gameplay elements could mean stuff like Pokemon on the overworld intead of random encounters, stealth attacks to begin battle with an advantage like in Persona 5, field moves to interact more with the overworld that don't take move slots, it can mean literally anything. I didn't take it as changing genres but I can see how you can see it that way.
One of the reasons I play Nintendo games is because they respect the player and don't like handholding... I don't understand why Pokemon has to break this trend so significantly by forcing us to play through boring and long tutorials. Get rid of that nonsense right now.
Massive open world BotW movement and control
- Fully custom trainer, that levels up and gets better and learns new skills as you play.
- Completely open from the start go anywhere you want.
- Hidden Gyms around the world some you might have to climb a mountain to find, or go under ground or swim to a nearby hidden island.
- Pokemon seen in the world, with more ways to interact with them other then just battling them.
- Play how you want, if you don't even want to catch Pokemon and just want to be a Photographer, cool go for it.
Dangers
- Many ways for you as a trainer to get K.Oed. Want a sense of danger as I play. You would reawaken at the nearest Pokecenter after passing out.
Tried to take a Kakuna from a tree but got caught by a bunch of Beedrill? Couldn't run/dive into water/fight them off? That's a K.O.
Fell off a high cliff? That's a K.O
Weren't paying attention in some plains, and a stampede of Tauros ran through you, and you didn't get out of the way? That's a K.O
Just want a huge sense of adventure and discovery as I play.
Pokemon Interactions
- Sure you could just engage them like you normally would. Throw out your Pokemon and just fight them.
- Pokemon would have temperaments, and depending on what they were would engage you differently.
If a Pokemon was friendly, you could crouch and sneak up on them, and try and feed them. They could end up loving that and let you just throw a ball and instant catch them.
A Pokemon could be scared, if you came up to it, it might try to flee or attack you. Sneaking up on a scared Vileplume might cause it to use stun spore on you K.Oing you.
Getting around the world
- Everything from bike riding,climbing, swimming and flying.
- Using Pokemon abilities to get around land based obstacles. Using cut to cut down a tree so it falls creating a bridge over a large gap ect.
- Any Pokemon could be ridden as long as they have the right moves. If your Rhydon has surf screw it let me ride him in the water.
- Fully custom trainer, that levels up and gets better and learns new skills as you play.
- Completely open from the start go anywhere you want.
- Hidden Gyms around the world some you might have to climb a mountain to find, or go under ground or swim to a nearby hidden island.
- Pokemon seen in the world, with more ways to interact with them other then just battling them.
- Play how you want, if you don't even want to catch Pokemon and just want to be a Photographer, cool go for it.
Dangers
- Many ways for you as a trainer to get K.Oed. Want a sense of danger as I play. You would reawaken at the nearest Pokecenter after passing out.
Tried to take a Kakuna from a tree but got caught by a bunch of Beedrill? Couldn't run/dive into water/fight them off? That's a K.O.
Fell off a high cliff? That's a K.O
Weren't paying attention in some plains, and a stampede of Tauros ran through you, and you didn't get out of the way? That's a K.O
Just want a huge sense of adventure and discovery as I play.
Pokemon Interactions
- Sure you could just engage them like you normally would. Throw out your Pokemon and just fight them.
- Pokemon would have temperaments, and depending on what they were would engage you differently.
If a Pokemon was friendly, you could crouch and sneak up on them, and try and feed them. They could end up loving that and let you just throw a ball and instant catch them.
A Pokemon could be scared, if you came up to it, it might try to flee or attack you. Sneaking up on a scared Vileplume might cause it to use stun spore on you K.Oing you.
Getting around the world
- Everything from bike riding,climbing, swimming and flying.
- Using Pokemon abilities to get around land based obstacles. Using cut to cut down a tree so it falls creating a bridge over a large gap ect.
- Any Pokemon could be ridden as long as they have the right moves. If your Rhydon has surf screw it let me ride him in the water.
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The way people in this thread are responding is they want Pokemon-Breath of the Wild Edition or Pokemon-Skyrim Edition, or Porkemon-other game edition. What is the point of wanting a different game with a Pokemon skin, when they can just play that other game? I think a lot of gamers need to take a step back and understand that Breath of the Wild is not going to set the bar for every other game released, especially Pokemon. The only game that needs to approach Breath of the Wild is Breath of the Wild 2.
You're right, but Nintendo must have some influence over the creative process, right? They do own 1/3 of the IP after all - I might be completely wrong in assuming this, however.
Nope. Game Freak decides everything. Actually they have talked on interviews how they sometimes make decisions that Nintendo wouldn't like but in the end convince them.
For example Nintendo pushed devs for the stylus on the DS but GF didn't think children would use it and instead decided to design the UI to use the finger.
Also on 3DS Nintendo wanted everyone to use the 3D, but GF decided to instead use the extra power for rendering and disable 3D most of the time.
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I try so hard to emotionally divest myself from discussions like this. The eventual reveal of a marginally more open game with the same overhead perspective and battle system is going to break my heart.
I used to say that about Zelda to an extent but Pokémon is a far, far more conservative property in terms of big picture design.
I used to say that about Zelda to an extent but Pokémon is a far, far more conservative property in terms of big picture design.
I suppose that would be quite the dilemma...if it existed.
Why exactly do Game Freak have to choose between tradition or innovation? Both are possible in a single work - and that's probably what they're going to do. They'll keep what works about the franchise, and they'll also change up some other things. Like...you know, what they've always done with the franchise. So long as the mainline games continue to make approximately all the money, they're going to continue with that approach.
Why exactly do Game Freak have to choose between tradition or innovation? Both are possible in a single work - and that's probably what they're going to do. They'll keep what works about the franchise, and they'll also change up some other things. Like...you know, what they've always done with the franchise. So long as the mainline games continue to make approximately all the money, they're going to continue with that approach.
That's the danger of Pokemon discussions. Your imagination might quickly outpace what is reasonable if you don't keep it in check.
The thing about innovation isn't really the battle system, it's the game as a whole. The 8-gym structure (despite what someone will tell me about SuMo, Trials are basically gyms with a new coat of paint as the premise is still the same), the way exploration works (or lack thereof considering how dumbed down it has been since Gen V), as well as the story (personal preference, but Gen V was when the story peaked for me. Nothing really reached that same level for me) all have become quite stale and should be revamped to fit the new mindset. That's why it worked well for Zelda, because it moved past how they did exploration and dungeons in the older games.
I'm torn on this one. Pokemon is one of the few games where the basic formula of the game is so timeless that it still works— even decades later with little change. But I can see how people would find it stale. Especially after the witnessing a major Zelda overhaul that blew everyone's expectations wide open.
Honesty, I just want a Pokemon game with an actual engaging story. With a cast of characters that are memorable and fully realised— each with their own sets of fleshed out motivations. The last time I got something close to that was in Pokemon Black/White.
Also, turn-based combat can still be reworked to make it more engaging (see: P5). An open-world BotW style Pokémon game does sound incredible though...
Honesty, I just want a Pokemon game with an actual engaging story. With a cast of characters that are memorable and fully realised— each with their own sets of fleshed out motivations. The last time I got something close to that was in Pokemon Black/White.
Also, turn-based combat can still be reworked to make it more engaging (see: P5). An open-world BotW style Pokémon game does sound incredible though...
There's plenty of room for improvement in the games without touching the battle system. Throwing away a beloved battle system that's been iterated on over decades just for the sake of having something new would be a terrible mistake.
Other monster collection games provide a lot of things that can be adapted, like Monster Hunter Stories and Yo-kai Watch. MHS' overworld would work quite well in the Pokemon series, with open spaces filled with monsters actually roaming around. Touching the monsters triggers a transition to a turn-based battle, and depending on your positioning when you make contact you could be put at an advantage or disadvantage. You can have a monster accompany you in the overworld, and can ride them to make use of their special abilities like smashing rocks in your way or swimming across water. That would be a great way to expand upon the PokeRide system and combine it with the 'Pokemon follower' feature that people have requested to return for ages. If they need to restrict these abilities for progression reasons then you could have to earn licenses to use them so you can't go further than they want you to.
Yo-kai Watch games have plenty of sidequests that add a lot of flavour to the world and give a purpose to monsters that you may not have caught or used otherwise. GameFreak started experimenting with this kind of thing in Gen 7 but the implementation was really lacking. The biggest reason for this was that there's no way to track which sidequests you've started and where you need to turn them in. In SM the sidequests were quite dull, too, merely asking you to show a specific Pokemon to a person to make them happy. I haven't played US/UM but it sounds like the new ones they added are much better.
On top of all this, I'd like them to find a better balance between agency and story. Gen 7 was way too heavy handed with its railroading and it was really easy on top of that. Implement a hard mode that minimises tutorials and requires you to be more strategic. Definitely no endgame teams with empty spaces. I'd like them to mix the structure up some more, too. Trials felt fresh but they were really just a reskinning of Gyms, I'd like to see them try doing something radically different.
And my head's going to explode if I see another request to go back to just the original 151.
Other monster collection games provide a lot of things that can be adapted, like Monster Hunter Stories and Yo-kai Watch. MHS' overworld would work quite well in the Pokemon series, with open spaces filled with monsters actually roaming around. Touching the monsters triggers a transition to a turn-based battle, and depending on your positioning when you make contact you could be put at an advantage or disadvantage. You can have a monster accompany you in the overworld, and can ride them to make use of their special abilities like smashing rocks in your way or swimming across water. That would be a great way to expand upon the PokeRide system and combine it with the 'Pokemon follower' feature that people have requested to return for ages. If they need to restrict these abilities for progression reasons then you could have to earn licenses to use them so you can't go further than they want you to.
Yo-kai Watch games have plenty of sidequests that add a lot of flavour to the world and give a purpose to monsters that you may not have caught or used otherwise. GameFreak started experimenting with this kind of thing in Gen 7 but the implementation was really lacking. The biggest reason for this was that there's no way to track which sidequests you've started and where you need to turn them in. In SM the sidequests were quite dull, too, merely asking you to show a specific Pokemon to a person to make them happy. I haven't played US/UM but it sounds like the new ones they added are much better.
On top of all this, I'd like them to find a better balance between agency and story. Gen 7 was way too heavy handed with its railroading and it was really easy on top of that. Implement a hard mode that minimises tutorials and requires you to be more strategic. Definitely no endgame teams with empty spaces. I'd like them to mix the structure up some more, too. Trials felt fresh but they were really just a reskinning of Gyms, I'd like to see them try doing something radically different.
And my head's going to explode if I see another request to go back to just the original 151.
This thread is checking all the boxes.
- Pokemon BotW - check
- Only the original 151 - check
- Gamefreak are lazy - check
- Kanto sequel - check
- Change the battle system - check
What some of you want isn't Pokemon at all, and it's not what your gonna get.
What you are gonna get is a great Pokemon game with a few innovations similar to Z-moves and regional variants, 60 - 150 new Pokemon, the 3D models truly visualized for a awesome artsyle, and some kick ass music.
Not every game has to chuck everything it has established out of the window, especially one with a system as complex, deep, and refined as Pokemon.
No, it's not gonna be Pokemon BotW. Pokemon isn't like Zelda in the slightest. They're two different beasts.
No, it's not gonna be just the original 151. They're not getting rid of 6 (infinitely better designed) generations worth of people favourites to pander to an audience who hasn't even played the damn series in 20 years.
No, Gamefreak aren't lazy. The games are constantly pushing the hardware, churning out great visuals, compelling battles, and fantastic music. Just because it doesn't have the battle frontier doesn't make it automatically lazy.
It might be a Kanto sequel. They baited it with Lily at the end of Sun and Moon, but I'd rather they didn't, and I don't think they will. A new generation calls for a new region to start it off with.
No, they won't change the battle system. Its been refined through 20 years. There's massive competitions because of it. Its the core game play of the series. Its easy to understand yet hard to master.
Some of these comments can really be likened to "Mario always jumps, Nintendo is lazy. Give us something new"
- Pokemon BotW - check
- Only the original 151 - check
- Gamefreak are lazy - check
- Kanto sequel - check
- Change the battle system - check
What some of you want isn't Pokemon at all, and it's not what your gonna get.
What you are gonna get is a great Pokemon game with a few innovations similar to Z-moves and regional variants, 60 - 150 new Pokemon, the 3D models truly visualized for a awesome artsyle, and some kick ass music.
Not every game has to chuck everything it has established out of the window, especially one with a system as complex, deep, and refined as Pokemon.
No, it's not gonna be Pokemon BotW. Pokemon isn't like Zelda in the slightest. They're two different beasts.
No, it's not gonna be just the original 151. They're not getting rid of 6 (infinitely better designed) generations worth of people favourites to pander to an audience who hasn't even played the damn series in 20 years.
No, Gamefreak aren't lazy. The games are constantly pushing the hardware, churning out great visuals, compelling battles, and fantastic music. Just because it doesn't have the battle frontier doesn't make it automatically lazy.
It might be a Kanto sequel. They baited it with Lily at the end of Sun and Moon, but I'd rather they didn't, and I don't think they will. A new generation calls for a new region to start it off with.
No, they won't change the battle system. Its been refined through 20 years. There's massive competitions because of it. Its the core game play of the series. Its easy to understand yet hard to master.
Some of these comments can really be likened to "Mario always jumps, Nintendo is lazy. Give us something new"
Pokemon Gin and Tonic
- Open World
- Complete gyms in any order
- All regions available
- All Pokemon available
- No HM's
- Gyms not type specific
- Any well-trained Pokemon should beat any other on a good day
- More than four moves
- Seasonal qualifiers for Pokemon League
- Share servers with other players
- Can fight, chat and trade with players on your server
- Open World
- Complete gyms in any order
- All regions available
- All Pokemon available
- No HM's
- Gyms not type specific
- Any well-trained Pokemon should beat any other on a good day
- More than four moves
- Seasonal qualifiers for Pokemon League
- Share servers with other players
- Can fight, chat and trade with players on your server