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Deleted member 29464

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,121
I think they can be way more innovative while keeping the same combat system, have better camera (more third person) and graphics with a larger world that doesn't need to be open world, have verticality, have much better dungeons, actually include previous and end game content people want (don't try and sell it to us down the line), etc. It would sort of be like XD but a main Pokemon game with a lot more content while taking cues from classic Zelda for game design. Sometimes I feel like there's a bigger difference between OoT and Majoras Mask than I do Pokemon RB and SM when it comes to its single-player campaigns, having well-crafted dungeons, puzzles, unique items, secrets etc does that.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,781
Can you really not sense the sarcasm?
Cant really tell with the guy, there isnt a single Pokemon thing he wont defend to the death. Plus look at the post he is qouting, he is comparing the advancements and innovation to the Pokemon series in Sun and Moon and comparing them to Mario and Odyssey, like what? they are in completely different leagues.
 

Magic Kaito

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,428
Can you really not sense the sarcasm?
The context is important here. Someone mentioned it'd be nice for Pokemon Switch to breath new life into the series. Serebii said trials did that for Gen 7 (not sarcasm). The idea that trials was the new life people wanted from Pokemon was mocked, and then Serebii brings up Mario Odyssey, which you just saw in that quote. So yeah it's sarcasm, but he was being disingenuous there. Sun/Moon did not do to Pokemon what Mario Odyssey did to Mario.
 

key

Member
Nov 7, 2017
418
The last Pokemon game I purchased was Diamond. I've spent some time with the newer entries via my wife's younger siblings, and they really just feel like more of the same. I'd really like to get back into the series on Switch, so I'm hoping they mix things up in a big way and make the games fresh again. That doesn't necessarily mean they need to completely rework the battle system, but big changes to the overworld/exploration would go a long way. I think there are a lot of people out there like me who would love to get back into Pokemon but are waiting for something new and exciting.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,698
I woke up and read a post about pokken gameplay in a gamefreak rpg o_O

its almost like people want a different massive studio working on each little part of the game and for it to cost the equivalent of 10 Naughty Dog games to develop.

Might as well throw the TCG into the pokemon world kind of like GWENT in TW3, just so we can have everything!
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,429
I just wonder at the technical pressure to have unique animations for 801 Pokemon.

Like, it's one thing for sprites or simple 3d models. It's something else entirely for HD versions like Stadium on top of an actual story mode.
 

key

Member
Nov 7, 2017
418
I just wonder at the technical pressure to have unique animations for 801 Pokemon.

Like, it's one thing for sprites or simple 3d models. It's something else entirely for HD versions like Stadium on top of an actual story mode.

In my opinion, that's a reason why a focus on Gen 1 and Gen 2 Pokemon would be best. It cuts down on the number of unique animations the team would have to work on. They could always add in later gens after release, kind of like Pokemon Go. Or just pick Pokemon from each gen and add others later.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
The last Pokemon game I purchased was Diamond. I've spent some time with the newer entries via my wife's younger siblings, and they really just feel like more of the same. I'd really like to get back into the series on Switch, so I'm hoping they mix things up in a big way and make the games fresh again. That doesn't necessarily mean they need to completely rework the battle system, but big changes to the overworld/exploration would go a long way. I think there are a lot of people out there like me who would love to get back into Pokemon but are waiting for something new and exciting.
BW2 is the game I always point people to if they've been out of the game for a while. The most complete Pokemon singleplayer experience to date. The only thing that hurts it in retrospect is that the following gen, introduced a new type, better balancing and a seamless online mode.
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,429
In my opinion, that's a reason why a focus on Gen 1 and Gen 2 Pokemon would be best. It cuts down on the number of unique animations the team would have to work on. They could always add in later gens after release, kind of like Pokemon Go. Or just pick Pokemon from each gen and add others later.
I scoff at "first 151 were da best," but I actually think a full open world version of Kanto and Johto would be best for Switch.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,698
In my opinion, that's a reason why a focus on Gen 1 and Gen 2 Pokemon would be best. It cuts down on the number of unique animations the team would have to work on. They could always add in later gens after release, kind of like Pokemon Go. Or just pick Pokemon from each gen and add others later.

Why tho? seems to just screw over so many people just for a blind grab at appealing to this supposed new audience.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
In my opinion, that's a reason why a focus on Gen 1 and Gen 2 Pokemon would be best. It cuts down on the number of unique animations the team would have to work on. They could always add in later gens after release, kind of like Pokemon Go. Or just pick Pokemon from each gen and add others later.
But anyone that really knows how to play these games would disagree. Don't give me Hawlucha and then ask me to go back to Machamp for a fighting type.

That's like saying the next Smash Bros should just go back to N64 characters so they could revamp the system.
 

Magic Kaito

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,428
The last Pokemon game I purchased was Diamond. I've spent some time with the newer entries via my wife's younger siblings, and they really just feel like more of the same. I'd really like to get back into the series on Switch, so I'm hoping they mix things up in a big way and make the games fresh again. That doesn't necessarily mean they need to completely rework the battle system, but big changes to the overworld/exploration would go a long way. I think there are a lot of people out there like me who would love to get back into Pokemon but are waiting for something new and exciting.
There are quite a few people in this thread hoping for improvements to overworld/exploration, so you're definitely not alone. It just doesn't generate much discussion because it's a reasonable expectation.
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,429
I think expecting upwards of 1000 Pokemon with unique full HD modeling and animations on top of a compelling world is a bit unreasonable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
I get it, some of you have been out of the game for a while. You see 800+ mons and it's off-putting, you just want a game with the ones you know, but sans Black and White, gen 1 has always gotten pretty good representation across all gens.
 

JakeNoseIt

Catch My Drift
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
4,536
I just wonder at the technical pressure to have unique animations for 801 Pokemon.

I've always been into the idea of a Pokemon reboot, so a radical change, one that would require a bunch of new work on the existing Pokemon is a good excuse to do it. Start with Red 2 and Blue 2, make your big changes, get everybody in, and then you have your template for future games.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,698
I get it, some of you have been out of the game for a while. You see 800+ mons and it's off-putting, you just want a game with the ones you know, but sans Black and White, gen 1 has always gotten pretty good representation across all gens.

I like gen1 pokemon the most, but going back to just those sounds like a horrible idea to me.
Regional variations were the best compromise for making something old new again.
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,429
I like gen1 pokemon the most, but going back to just those sounds like a horrible idea to me.
Regional variations were the best compromise for making something old new again.
I definitely agree. It was a fun way to spin things around.

Again: 1000 unique Pokemon models in HD on top of a fully-flushed world doesn't seem realistic to me. That's why limiting the Pokédex seems to be best. It doesn't seem feasible right now.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,698
I definitely agree. It was a fun way to spin things around.

Again: 1000 unique Pokemon models in HD on top of a fully-flushed world doesn't seem realistic to me. That's why limiting the Pokédex seems to be best. It doesn't seem feasible right now.

well yeah, but going back to a small roster and the original regions just tosses a huge part of the series appeal out the window. The open world thing is just nonsense unless you can explain how exactly that would be done.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,663
well yeah, but going back to a small roster and the original regions just tosses a huge part of the series appeal out the window. The open world thing is just nonsense unless you can explain how exactly that would be done.
This is why I hate these threads series "experts" coming in here shooting down any and every idea like they're in the dev studio reading the thread or something. Who are you to tell someone their suggestion is nonsense. Pokémon already has a foundation to be open world
 

Magic Kaito

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,428
Not everyone means open world when they want a better overworld. I certainly don't. There are people here who have described what they mean, such as:

My main hope for the next game is that we get a large game world. Bigger than we've ever had. I don't expect an open world - just wide, open areas that you can actually explore. This is probably an unrealistic wish considering Sun & Moon's region was the smallest behind Johto, and the never-ending story dumps lengthened what would have been a super short game otherwise, but a fan can dream.

Fill these large areas with interesting things. Give me proper caves and forests again. Give me cool semi-optional places like Sea Mauville. When's the last time we had a genuine dungeon on the level of Silph Co.? How about including some puzzles and environmental hazards again? Daily and weekly events like the Bug-Catching Contest? It's just bizarre how GameFreak has backed away from some of this stuff. Kids aren't any less savvy today. If anything they're likely more familiar with games than we were in the 90's. They can keep the big X pointing us to the next story location on the map if they absolutely have to, but let us stray from it often.

I loathe that the story seems to be a major focus now, but that doesn't seem like it's going to change. Fine. At the very least can exploration return to the forefront, though?
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,698
What do you think they should do? No sarcasm.

The onus is on you when you're suggesting such a drastic shift in gameplay. Dont try to shift this to me :)

All I want is for it to look good and run well, fix some of the issues that are prevalent, and add back in the features people actually liked but somehow went missing. I expect the story to be entirely unappealing and childish as per norm these days, but thats fine.

This is why I hate these threads series "experts" coming in here shooting down any and every idea like they're in the dev studio reading the thread or something. Who are you to tell someone their suggestion is nonsense. Pokémon already has a foundation to be open world

well you sound like the "expert" since you know the games got a foundation to be open world. So lets hear how exactly that is? People come in here and act like game development is easy and games should change for no reason other than to appeal to your specific tastes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
well yeah, but going back to a small roster and the original regions just tosses a huge part of the series appeal out the window. The open world thing is just nonsense unless you can explain how exactly that would be done.
Cerulean, Celadon, Lavender, Saffaron and Fuschia minus the gatekeepers seems pretty open to me. Level scaling is the hard part.
 

JakeNoseIt

Catch My Drift
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
4,536
This is why I hate these threads series "experts" coming in here shooting down any and every idea like they're in the dev studio reading the thread or something. Who are you to tell someone their suggestion is nonsense. Pokémon already has a foundation to be open world

People think that, based on the known pattern of small, incremental upgrades in Pokemon games, any kind of substantial change is too much for Game Freak to handle. I get this line of thinking, but it's obvious and I think most of us already acknowledge it. Nobody wants a thread discussing "what small steps can the next Pokemon game take to be less of a headache," because we basically had that for 20 years with "get rid of HMs!"

Threads like these are always a tough proposition because I know any fun, larger change I suggest will be met with "but that could never happen!" Like, I know, but what if it did! Haha
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,698
Cerulean, Celadon, Lavender, Saffaron and Fuschia minus the gatekeepers seems pretty open to me. Level scaling is the hard part.

nonlinear is not the same as an open world game though. A Link to the past has a nonlinear overworld, and sequence breaking etc, but its not an open world game.

People think that, based on the known pattern of small, incremental upgrades in Pokemon games, any kind of substantial change is too much for Game Freak to handle. I get this line of thinking, but it's obvious and I think most of us already acknowledge it. Nobody wants a thread discussing "what small steps can the next Pokemon game take to be less of a headache," because we basically had that for 20 years with "get rid of HMs!"

Threads like these are always a tough proposition because I know any fun, larger change I suggest will be met with "but that could never happen!" Like, I know, but what if it did! Haha

there are separate threads for unrealistic, unfeasible dream games. This thread seems more about what would be a realistic decision from the developers stantpoint.
 

udivision

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,033
I mean, there are a lot of posts that actually go into detail and raise some good ideas in regards to things being more open. Also, not everyone means the same thing.

Keep in mind, you can only find a fraction of the Pokemon in the game's code in the actual wild.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,698
Lol

I mean are you cool with basically getting Sun & Moon but in a new region and with upscaled graphics? I'm not entirely certain I am.

No, S/M are my least favourite in the series by far. You're just putting words in my mouth which I didnt say at all, while still not explaining the specifics of your open world ideal game.
 

JakeNoseIt

Catch My Drift
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
4,536
there are separate threads for unrealistic, unfeasible dream games. This thread seems more about what would be a realistic decision from the developers stantpoint.

The OP specifically asks about changing the battle system and talks about how Zelda BotW really shook things up. That communicated to me that radical ideas were welcome. I never said "unrealistic" or "unfeasible" and I frankly don't know if it's fair to just decide what that is on your own.

Anyways, I always thought the argument for a Red and Blue 2 was clear. Gives you the opportunity to make substantial changes to the game, while holding on to the most commercially successful and familiar locations/monsters.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
I don't think anyone's asking for GTA when they ask for open. Larger cities and towns, multiple ways to get there, less linearity. Instead of, sorry, I can't let your pass, I dropped my glasses.
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,429
No, S/M are my least favourite in the series by far. You're just putting words in my mouth which I didnt say at all, while still not explaining the specifics of your open world ideal game.
You're getting defensive and I'm not sure why, I'm not loading my questions. I'm asking them in a literal sense. :P

What I would do — and it would piss off many, but it would make for a superior end product — is set Switch in a specific setting, a continent much like Hyrule in Zelda. A living world with various biomes, many different areas in biology and culture. You have a limited Pokédex, like no more than 300 so you don't cut corners to cram half-assed animations on a billion models. You figure out a way for the Gym leaders to scale to the player (THIS is the toughest part), and you don't restrict where the player can go. Want an Ice type? Go to the alpine region. Want a Fire type? Go to the volcano. Eliminate these arbitrary barriers for the sake of narrative. Implant a story you can uncover via investigation, but don't force it. Hell, have some Yakuza-like substories.

That's how I would do it, for a start. It wouldn't please everyone. But BotW didn't please everyone, Metroid Prime didn't please everyone, and Resident Evil 4 didn't please everyone either.
 

JakeNoseIt

Catch My Drift
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
4,536
I don't think anyone's asking for GTA when they ask for open. Larger cities and towns, multiple ways to get there, less linearity. Instead of, sorry, I can't let your pass, I dropped my glasses.

For me the difference is in the world being a collection of paths, or an actual surface for me to explore. Pokemon has a really interesting, colorful world. Seeing something interesting in the distance and then going over to check it out would be amazing. Right now, it kinda feels like you're just part of an elaborate highway system.


What I would do — and it would piss off many, but it would make for a superior end product — is set Switch in a specific setting, a continent much like Hyrule in Zelda. A living world with various biomes, many different areas in biology and culture. You have a limited Pokédex, like no more than 300 so you don't cut corners to cram half-assed animations on a billion models. You figure out a way for the Gym leaders to scale to the player (THIS is the toughest part), and you don't restrict where the player can go. Want an Ice type? Go to the alpine region. Want a Fire type? Go to the volcano. Eliminate these arbitrary barriers for the sake of narrative. Implant a story you can uncover via investigation, but don't force it. Hell, have some Yakuza-like substories.

I'm so in. Giving you the freedom to go to these places because YOU wanted to capitalizes on the simple choices Pokemon is all about
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,968
I hope that tomorrow's Pokemon Switch thread, and next Wednesday's Pokemon Switch thread, will be as fun as this one has been
 

key

Member
Nov 7, 2017
418
Why tho? seems to just screw over so many people just for a blind grab at appealing to this supposed new audience.

I think it's unreasonable to expect GF to fully feature 800+ Pokémon and devote the proper amount of resources to improving other aspects of the game. Especially if they're shooting for a 2018 release. Focusing on a smaller number of Pokemon, whether they do it by gen or by picking popular representatives from every gen, would make things more manageable. They can then add other Pokémon as DLC.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,698
The OP specifically asks about changing the battle system and talks about how Zelda BotW really shook things up. That communicated to me that radical ideas were welcome. I never said "unrealistic" or "unfeasible" and I frankly don't know if it's fair to just decide what that is on your own.

Anyways, I always thought the argument for a Red and Blue 2 was clear. Gives you the opportunity to make substantial changes to the game, while holding on to the most commercially successful and familiar locations/monsters.

I know many people who played Pokemon GO, not because they had any idea wtf Kanto is, but because it was a free mobile app with a social focus.
That doesnt say much about gen1 so much as it does about the mobile market and how strong the Pokemon ip is in general.

What other stats could you be basing it on? gen 2 sold almost as well on a system that had less overall sales. The series in general has declined in sales each generation, but thats also because of market saturation of quality software while pokemon on gameboy was pretty much the game

I don't think anyone's asking for GTA when they ask for open. Larger cities and towns, multiple ways to get there, less linearity. Instead of, sorry, I can't let your pass, I dropped my glasses.

And thats fine. Preferrable even. But thats still not an Open World game, and it sure as hell isnt an action based BOTW clone like some people want.

I think it's unreasonable to expect GF to fully feature 800+ Pokémon and devote the proper amount of resources to improving other aspects of the game. Especially if they're shooting for a 2018 release. Focusing on a smaller number of Pokemon, whether they do it by gen or by picking popular representatives from every gen, would make things more manageable. They can then add other Pokémon as DLC.

x/y and s/m didnt feature the whole existing roster in the game proper, not even close.
iirc theyre pretty against DLC so thats not happening thankfully

You're getting defensive and I'm not sure why, I'm not loading my questions. I'm asking them in a literal sense. :P

What I would do — and it would piss off many, but it would make for a superior end product — is set Switch in a specific setting, a continent much like Hyrule in Zelda. A living world with various biomes, many different areas in biology and culture. You have a limited Pokédex, like no more than 300 so you don't cut corners to cram half-assed animations on a billion models. You figure out a way for the Gym leaders to scale to the player (THIS is the toughest part), and you don't restrict where the player can go. Want an Ice type? Go to the alpine region. Want a Fire type? Go to the volcano. Eliminate these arbitrary barriers for the sake of narrative. Implant a story you can uncover via investigation, but don't force it. Hell, have some Yakuza-like substories.

That's how I would do it, for a start. It wouldn't please everyone. But BotW didn't please everyone, Metroid Prime didn't please everyone, and Resident Evil 4 didn't please everyone either.

Off the bat you're already claiming that your subjective opinion makes for a superior game. You havent said how the game would handle that kind of progression at all, you just described BOTW.