The presence of negative space in Death Stranding's open world is making me excited!

[Toriko]

Rewatching the Death Stranding Trailer made me realize how much I love the idea of negative space in open world games. The idea of there being vast areas of nothingness in between points of interest.


A lot of open world games tend to pride themselves in filling every nook and cranny with objects of interest ( either a collectible or a NPC etc.. ) but seldom do these games contribute to a feeling of discovery or mystery. The idea of negative space can contribute so much to fantasy, sci fi or apocalyptic settings I always wondered why more open world games dont utilize it effectively.

Each time there is a vast negative space the journey towards the actual point of interest that you find in the distance feels much more purposeful, much more enticing.



Games that do negative space phenomenally are

Shadow of the Colossus

This gif automatically conveys a sense of mystery through its use of vastness, scale and is masterful use of emptiness


Journey does a phenomenal job as well





BOTW did this to a nice extent as well

And I am so excited to see it being potentially used in Death Stranding

Of course I dont see negative space working all that well for a game that is realistic but anyone else love these kind of worlds?

On a side note I need the full version of this track asap Kojima!

 

[Quinton]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but a lot of folks seem to find wide open negative space to be, well, negative. I've already been thinking about how there will be complaints about that if the game launches with as much of it as it's seemed.

 

[Deleted member 1413]

Shadow of The collossus' empty world wasn't particularly good gameplaywise, was more to set the atmosphere. The game is also 5 hours long.
We don't know what you do in DS's world outside of walking so negative space doesn't mean much.

Doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be bad, but I wouldn't get excited about it yet.

 

[anexanhume]

I agree. What's so good about some media is what isn't there. I'm a big fan of Kubrick for his use of silence. It can be so much more ominous than a tense score in certain scenarios. I think the same concept applies for use of space.

 

[ActWan]

:) Seems to fit perfectly well with the style the game is going for. Traversing these huge landscapes will be quite an experience.

 

[Toriko]

Shadow of The collossus' empty world wasn't particularly good gameplaywise, was more to set the atmosphere. The game is also 5 hours long.
We don't know what you do in DS's world outside of walking so negative space doesn't mean much.

Click to shrink...

The atmosphere enhances the gameplay. It is impossible to separate the two. It is a masterclass in how less is more. A lot more games would do well to learn a lot from it.

 

[Crayon]

I'm more than excited.

 

[Deleted member 12186]

I seem to get annoyed at the prospect of covering large distances with nothing interesting along the way.

 

[Sub Boss]

im not sure what you mean :s

Oh, nothingness, nah unless its an horror game

 

[joshcam19]

Shadow of The collossus' empty world wasn't particularly good gameplaywise, was more to set the atmosphere. The game is also 5 hours long.
We don't know what you do in DS's world outside of walking so negative space doesn't mean much.

Doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be bad, but I wouldn't get excited about it yet.

Click to shrink...

The first time you play SoTC and you don't know where to go or what to do it takes much like than 5 hours.

I agree with OP. Love the use of negative space in the games mentioned. Really enjoyed Death Stranding e3 trailer and the world they started to show.

 

[Toriko]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but a lot of folks seem to find wide open negative space to be, well, negative. I've already been thinking about how there will be complaints about that if the game launches with as much of it as it's seemed.

Click to shrink...

It is disappointing. But it looks like there is enough of an audience for these kind of games that some big publishers will continue investing in these kind of worlds more often.

 

[ZiggyPalffyLA]

OP you mean empty space? The same thing y'all complain about in open world games NOT made by Kojima? Lol

 

[Deleted member 1413]

The first time you play SoTC and you don't know where to go or what to do it takes much like than 5 hours.

I agree with OP. Love the use of negative space in the games mentioned. Really enjoyed Death Stranding e3 trailer and the world they started to show.

Click to shrink...

The remaster was my first time, took like 5 and a half hours.
That's beside the point, in that game it's used as a tool to build up the actual game- the boss fights. Thanks to its length it can get away with it without getting annoying.
So far for Death Stranding it *is* the game.

Looking at the examples given, you wouldn't see a trailer and go "yeah, empty space makes me excited", it's a feeling you get once you try it and how it enhances the rest of the experience.

 

[Deleted member 16657]

It really depends on how much gameplay you can make out of taking a long hike. If I'm literally just pressing forwards to walk the whole time that won't be much fun at all.

 

[Aurc]

I dunno, man. SotC is a short game, and riding out to the next colossus takes a few minutes tops, unless you get lost or stuck. It's a brief intermission before your next battle with a majestic giant. Death Stranding better have a killer ambient / atmospheric soundtrack if we're just walking for long distances (it does seem to, judging by the track you posted).

 

[Phendrift]

I think it can definitely be a good thing, but it depends on how much fun it is to traverse and if it enhances the narrative. If it's just walking it'll be lame. BotW's worked so well because there were so many fun ways to traverse - you could walk, horse ride, paraglide over, shield surf down slopes, and motorcycle in the DLC. It works so well for SotC because it greatly enhances the atmosphere. In both cases it helps convey the scope of a detailed, lived in world.

 

[Derrick01]

Honestly all those games you listed in the OP bored me with how empty their worlds are (yes including zelda). A wide empty space is just a wide empty space, there's nothing that can make it exciting.

 

[Dennis8K]

I love it too.

And I have often advocated for no Fast Travel option ever.

People are lazy so it needs to simply not be an option.

All sense of scale and wonder is lost when you can just zip zip from event to event.

 

[Quinton]

It is disappointing. But it looks like there is enough of an audience for these kind of games that some big publishers will continue investing in these kind of worlds more often.

Click to shrink...

I agree. Makes me happy!

 

[Hark]

I like vast spaces, provided they're done right. There needs to be some kind of focus, a true sense of scale and good movement controls. If the player has to move slowly/jerkily through a wide, flat environment it's not fun.

 

[Toriko]

Honestly all those games you listed in the OP bored me with how empty their worlds are (yes including zelda). A wide empty space is just a wide empty space, there's nothing that can make it exciting.

Click to shrink...

Would having you stumble across something every five steps be more interesting always in an open world?

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Negative space? Really?

As a designer Im struggling to understand this concept being used for an open world game.

 

[Deleted member 2618]

While I do agree that it can work, I am still skeptical of Death Stranding after MGSV. That gsme was mostly negative space and it certainly didnt help IMO. Granted the mission based structure of the game also didnt warrant much exploration. There was no purpose having MGSV be open world, and as long as Death Stranding can have purpose Im sure itll be fine.

 

[Deleted member 2533]

16 bosses in SotC in 5 1/2 hours is literally 20 minutes to find and kill each boss. That's practically sprinting through the game.

 

[Dennis8K]

There are also people who want there to be a minimap on your screen when you traverse the vast gameworld.

These are wrong people who are wrong.

 

[Derrick01]

Would having you stumble across something every five steps be more interesting always in an open world?

Click to shrink...

Does it have to be one extreme or the other? But to play along yeah I would prefer an ubisoft map to those games. As bad as those are, I consider having something to do better than nothing even if it's something monotonous. There's nothing more boring than vast stretches of nothingness where I start dozing off from running too long without anything to see or do.

 

[Machine Law]

Is Death Stranding confirmed open world?

 

[McScroggz]

In rare cases it can be used productively, but generally I think it will leave the player feeling the world was empty and boring, possibly even tedious. It works in Shadow of the Colossus because all there is to the game is boss fights, and it's necessary for atmosphere and pacing to having those moments where you are riding around. Plus there is some light platforming along the way to reinforce the gameplay.

On the other hand is Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain. Say what you will about the gameplay and level design, the empty and practically meaningless open spaces detract from the game because the tense stealth gameplay is already slow paced. Not to mention it feels like there should be more to the world, people and cities, etc. Final Fantasy XV is another game I think suffers because the open world largely exists for random monster hunts that get repetitive very quickly or to reinforce the feeling of journeying with your bros - which in my opinion is the only thing that halfway justifies the open world beyond the spectacle of it.

So thematically the sparse world seems like it might be a good fit for Death Stranding based off of the little bit we know, but personally I'm really worried it will ultimately not be enjoyable to traverse and will feel more monotonous than tone setting.

 

[Toriko]

Does it have to be one extreme or the other? But to play along yeah I would prefer an ubisoft map to those games. As bad as those are, I consider having something to do better than nothing even if it's something monotonous. There's nothing more boring than vast stretches of nothingness where I start dozing off from running too long without anything to see or do.

Click to shrink...

If the idea of discovery and the concept of a journey is something you do not find appealing then sure I can see the idea of collecting 5 feathers and gaining 15 XP every 5 min feel more exciting.

Is Death Stranding confirmed open world?

Click to shrink...

Yes.

 

[Mortemis]

Yeah, it's really great imo. But only if the world is fun to interact with and the gameplay can keep you entertained. BOTW is the best at that, and really ties it together.

 

[KrigareN-]

Yes, and it's no coincidence that those three titles you mentioned are some of my favorite games of all time.

I really digged (using dug sounds weird...any grammarians here?) the silent trailer shown at E3. It was effective in conveying a world full of atmosphere and mystery. It actually made me want a game with a similar premise as The Martian.

 

[Dreamboum]

Honestly all those games you listed in the OP bored me with how empty their worlds are (yes including zelda). A wide empty space is just a wide empty space, there's nothing that can make it exciting.

Click to shrink...

Level design, sound design and art direction is what's inside those empty spaces. It's like the town of Silent Hill, it's there as the release that heightens the moments of tension.

 

[Sean]

Does it have to be one extreme or the other? But to play along yeah I would prefer an ubisoft map to those games. As bad as those are, I consider having something to do better than nothing even if it's something monotonous. There's nothing more boring than vast stretches of nothingness where I start dozing off from running too long without anything to see or do.

Click to shrink...

But... AC Origins has tons of negative space and uses it very effectively. Imo it's by far the best AC map so far because of it. Hell, Technically Black Flag does too and is great for it.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

BOTW didnt have much of a story so of course it had lots of random shit in the fields. Journey is a good comparison and that game felt like an actual place more than Zelda simply because it wasnt full of "gamey" trinkets

 

[Deleted member 2533]

The desert areas in AC:O were interesting in theory, but pretty pointless. I feel like most of the map was underutilized.

I quite liked GTAV. Sure, some areas didn't have "stuff" but nowhere felt like a wasteland. There were people and buildings and things everywhere, so things felt purposeful. Even the mountainous areas featured landmarks or had vantage points that made going there feel worthwhile.

 

[Deleted member 43077]

DS visuals look incredible but nothing in that trailer did anything positive to me.

I would become a pizza hut delivery guy if all I wanted was to deliver stuff with good graphics :P

Look forward to hopefully much more interesting gameplay later.

 

[Derrick01]

If the idea of discovery and the concept of a journey is something you do not find appealing then sure I can see the idea of collecting 5 feathers and gaining 15 XP every 5 min feel more exciting.

Click to shrink...

To have an idea of discovery you have to have something to discover. Large empty spaces means you're just running for no reason, wasting time and padding the game clock. In sotc there's literally nothing to discover, you're just moving from 1 boss to the next. In BotW there's very little to discover beyond junk weapons that will break in a few hits anyway, or ubisoft style collectibles called korok seeds. At best you find someone who will have a MMO style quest for you to do. So there's not a ton of motivation to travel those endless plains. As for Journey it's not even worth mentioning, it's over in like 1 hour there's no time to really explore anything meaningful.

 

[Toriko]

In rare cases it can be used productively, but generally I think it will leave the player feeling the world was empty and boring, possibly even tedious. It works in Shadow of the Colossus because all there is to the game is boss fights, and it's necessary for atmosphere and pacing to having those moments where you are riding around. Plus there is some light platforming along the way to reinforce the gameplay.

On the other hand is Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain. Say what you will about the gameplay and level design, the empty and practically meaningless open spaces detract from the game because the tense stealth gameplay is already slow paced. Not to mention it feels like there should be more to the world, people and cities, etc. Final Fantasy XV is another game I think suffers because the open world largely exists for random monster hunts that get repetitive very quickly or to reinforce the feeling of journeying with your bros - which in my opinion is the only thing that halfway justifies the open world beyond the spectacle of it.

So thematically the sparse world seems like it might be a good fit for Death Stranding based off of the little bit we know, but personally I'm really worried it will ultimately not be enjoyable to traverse and will feel more monotonous than tone setting.

Click to shrink...

It is much harder to make negative space work in a realistic setting because ultimately what is it that you are discovering? More realistic looking military bases... There is no element of the fantastical waiting for you to discover. It works much better in fantasy, sci fi or horror setting.

 

[KrigareN-]

What excites me the most about Death Stranding is the seemingly realistic methods of traversal and navigation. It's a less gamey BotW, which is a dream.

 

[lucablight]

SMH. Just when I think I can't be surprised anymore by what mediocre practice gamers will defend/praise I see that there are literally people on here that are encouraging developers to implement large segments of walking. Am I so out of touch?

 

[KillLaCam]

Idk the empty space in mgsv was pretty boring. Hopefully this is alot better at that

 

[Deleted member 21709]

I love Minecraft's infinite worlds

 

[Nisaba]

For me in BotW, I found a nice sense of discovery in simply traversing the terrain, climbing as high as I could in a certain area or chancing upon an interesting quest hidden on a cliff. So, in that sense, I thought that game used it's space pretty well to entice you to explore. Hyrule was built around the climbing mechanic so the terrain was designed for you to play around with that mechanic.

I'm not sure if Death Stranding will have an engaging mechanic like that though with the whole delivery thing I saw in the trailer (but I hope it will!).

 

[Deleted member 249]

I love games that use empty space well. BotW was a masterclass at this, and Death Stranding seems to be showing similar tendencies. Definitely excited.

 

[Rosebud]

Yes, I love that feeling of solitude. Death Stranding seems to have an incredible atmosphere.

SMH. Just when I think I can't be surprised anymore by what mediocre practice gamers will defend/praise I see that there are literally people on here that are encouraging developers to implement large segments of walking. Am I so out of touch?

Click to shrink...

Yes.

 

[Van Bur3n]

 

[Deleted member 5604]

I'm not. Only one game has managed to actually feel good with it to me so far, and that is SOTC. Negative space in the last Kojima made game was one of its biggest flaws to me.

I was super disappointed with DS' showing this E3.

 

[Toriko]

SMH. Just when I think I can't be surprised anymore by what mediocre practice gamers will defend/praise I see that there are literally people on here that are encouraging developers to implement large segments of walking. Am I so out of touch?

Click to shrink...

You will get your boring shooting fix found in a zillion other AAA games as well! Congratulations!

 

[Deleted member 8674]

Shadow of the Colossus feels empty in a bad way.

Legend of Zelda is filled with "interesting" stuff to do. Interesting is key here.

It's about balance. Empty world is really like the word..empty (Shadow of the Colossus)

A world filled with meaningless things to do is repetitive and boring (Some AssCreed games)

Zelda and Witcher 3 are master class in world design.

 

[Einchy]

I just hope the actual game really looks like that.

I don't know how many games show off vast landscapes that feel like real locations, then you play the game and you never see those places because they were just for the trailer or something.

This shot left me really impressed when I first saw it but I remember saying that no way would the game really be this big and open and I was right. I hope the same doesn't happen with Death Stranding.