Precisely. It happens a lot when switching back, and forth between games. Doesn't even have to be BOTW.
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The problem with climbing in a post-Breath of Wild Era...
- Thread starter Stef
- Start date
Yep we have a new status quo. I couldn't play Horizon after Zelda either.
Yeah. I've got no interest in climbing, or jumping outside of certain open world games.
With how shitty Link's swimming ability was in BotW I almost felt like I had stepped back to those dark ages while playing BotW :P
For me it was Horizon: Zero Dawn. I was switching between them pretty regularly, and I don't know how many times I had to stop myself from just leaping off a mountaintop or cliff edge.
Yeah, kinda my opinion too. BOTW is great in many other ways though, but the free climbing didnt do anything for me. And it would certainly not fit in most other exploration games.
In general I dont feel like missing features when switching between games. Different games are different. What matters is if the games are well designed around their own rules.
And then you have AC Odyssey that does climbing even better, without any constraints or annoying water slippage.
That being said, I think not having climbing is a good way to make a world feel certain ways. Like a horror game without climbing keeps you locked in more, and that lock in increases tension. For example I felt way more comfortable on the open world parts of Evil Within 2 because it gave more navigation options
That being said, I think not having climbing is a good way to make a world feel certain ways. Like a horror game without climbing keeps you locked in more, and that lock in increases tension. For example I felt way more comfortable on the open world parts of Evil Within 2 because it gave more navigation options
And in BOTW, it just feels tedious and pointless as it does nothing but slow you down in actually enjoying the exploration.
I agree with your assessment, although hitting those few spots in BOTW with the "you can't travel beyond this point" was really jarring.
Exactly this. All this talk of how x game ruined x other games(to be fair it's BotW more than any other) is insanity to me, especially because it's always compared to games that are trying to accomplish vastly different things. That would be like saying "Horizon ruined open world combat with multiple gadgets/weapons for me". I didn't even feel BotW's traversal was that awe-inspiring. Maybe if Link could climb like 3x faster. The only game I could even remotely see this happening for me might be traversing in inFamous Second Son after playing Spider-Man(but probably not).
Climbing in Assassin's Creed as it stands is already pure tedium. Every second of it feels like an eternity because it's purely wasted time that doesn't require you to interact with the game in any way beyond holding up on the analog stick, not at all dissimilar from the "forced slow walking segments" people are complaining about in that other thread.
Requiring the player to actually think about how to traverse the environment and having player skill be a factor in whether or not they'll be successful would go a long way towards alleviating that tedium.
having the issue now going from AC Odyssey to Days Gone. got killed a few times thinking i could sneak over a boulder or something
guess the issue is you have to go whole hog on "climing everything" or having very specific marks. the only game i can think of that tried to wiggle its way to a middle ground is MGSV and as beautifully as it controlled it could get real wonky when it came to what could and couldn't climb
guess the issue is you have to go whole hog on "climing everything" or having very specific marks. the only game i can think of that tried to wiggle its way to a middle ground is MGSV and as beautifully as it controlled it could get real wonky when it came to what could and couldn't climb
I loved it. The prep work and everything. Even the rain never bothered me, it all felt natural.
I also loved sailing in The Wind Waker.
Personally I didn't really enjoy climbing in BotW because of the stamina meter. If a climb seemed too big for my current stamina or I just couldn't make it after a few failed attempts (and I didn't have any food on hand to increase stamina temporarily), I typically lost interest and moved on to doing something else in the game.
I remember I started playing AC Origins around the same time I was finishing up BoTW, and found it so liberating to just be able to climb these massive mountains without worrying about a stamina meter running out. Some will certainly criticize AC Origins (and it turn Odysseys) climbing mechanics as being mindless and being too 'gamey', and to be honest, I don't necessarily disagree with that. All I can say is I had much more fun climbing in AC Origins and Odyssey than I did in BotW.
I remember I started playing AC Origins around the same time I was finishing up BoTW, and found it so liberating to just be able to climb these massive mountains without worrying about a stamina meter running out. Some will certainly criticize AC Origins (and it turn Odysseys) climbing mechanics as being mindless and being too 'gamey', and to be honest, I don't necessarily disagree with that. All I can say is I had much more fun climbing in AC Origins and Odyssey than I did in BotW.
This happened to me as well. Still haven't been able to get through the game.
I disagree. Climbing in Assassin's Creed Origins is fast. There's also far more objects to climb compared to BotW, so if everything was a question of if I have enough stamina to climb, it'd take forever just to do simple side missions. You might find that fun, but I would be bored out of my mind accomplishing nothing, because I'm too busy wasting time slowly climbing/falling down surfaces.
AC already did that and people called it tedious so they simplified it. And now they still call it tedious.
Climbing in BotW is also tedious, except there's a chance you will run out of stamina and have wasted all your time, making it even more tedious. Or, if it starts raining, you've automatically wasted your time through no fault of your own and have to wait and do nothing until the random element ceases to block your progress. BotW's climbing is more tedious than any AC game's.
I kind of feel the same, but is not the climbing in particular, but most the "normal human moving capabilities
Yes! That's the key that makes the game feel much better than the other games.
Yes! That's the key that makes the game feel much better than the other games.
I can't say this has ever bothered me. I know what you are talking about though. I still remember seeing bs criticisms of games like God of War about how you can't go anywhere and that Zelda ruined invisible walls for everyone.It's more than annoying. People think that one game does something well, all games should follow suit. It's the same mindset that has lead to most major publishers printing out massive open world schlock filled to the brim with content. It gets tiring. Sometimes I just want some structure in my games. A giant play ground to explore is fine, but you know what is also fine, good level design.
i replayed botw after ac:odyssey and i feel the same way, botw feels like such an open sandbox that wants to do little things to annoy me, still i love em both
I hate having to jump around a mountain or cliff trying to find the one spot where you can actually climb. Horizon: Zero Dawn and Skyrim had this problem. It's just a frustrating waste of time. It really breaks immersion when my character gets stuck in places where my actual human self would do a better job of climbing.
BOTW just let's you climb anything which was a nice solution. It works pretty well for the most part. The slipping in the rain and stamina could be a pain but the freedom of movement was still there.
Every game is different but if exploration is a huge part of the game then being able to navigate the world with as little as possible fuss is essential. I do hope that the sequel to H:ZD gives some better options when it comes to moving around obstacles.
BOTW just let's you climb anything which was a nice solution. It works pretty well for the most part. The slipping in the rain and stamina could be a pain but the freedom of movement was still there.
Every game is different but if exploration is a huge part of the game then being able to navigate the world with as little as possible fuss is essential. I do hope that the sequel to H:ZD gives some better options when it comes to moving around obstacles.
Yeah after BotW open world games have me sitting there wondering why I can't just go to whatever I see however I see fit. Like I can't imagine the next Elder Scrolls not allowing you to climb or go wherever from wherever.
Good way to put it.
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I think I have a similar problem, but with a different mechanic.
The simple act of jumping.
As someone who grew up with platformers, jumping is the most satisfying mechanic of any video game to me. When I play a game with even the slightest bit of free movement, I expect to press a button and jump, all the time. If I can't jump, I feel a little sad in side. I was really happy when Breath of the Wild had free jumps, whereas in all past 3D titles, jumping was automatic. Even in RPGs with free-roaming, I want to jump sometimes. I blame Paper Mario for that as the first non-Pokemon RPG I ever played. I get a little kick out of Fire Emblem: Three Houses' loading screen because your little sprite can jump.
The simple act of jumping.
As someone who grew up with platformers, jumping is the most satisfying mechanic of any video game to me. When I play a game with even the slightest bit of free movement, I expect to press a button and jump, all the time. If I can't jump, I feel a little sad in side. I was really happy when Breath of the Wild had free jumps, whereas in all past 3D titles, jumping was automatic. Even in RPGs with free-roaming, I want to jump sometimes. I blame Paper Mario for that as the first non-Pokemon RPG I ever played. I get a little kick out of Fire Emblem: Three Houses' loading screen because your little sprite can jump.
BotW almost killed skyrim for me completely.
Getting suddenly stuck at a 2m rock felt odd and wrong.
Getting suddenly stuck at a 2m rock felt odd and wrong.
I played Horizon Zero Dawn right before Breath of the Wild, but only for a day or so. Then I sunk 200 hours into BotW, and came back to Horizon. I adore Horizon. It's an amazing game, and I loved every minute of it...except a few moments here and there when I felt restricted by not being able to climb, or forced to only climb along a fixed path. It felt like the game's only glaring flaw, and I certainly do attribute that to playing BotW earlier.
I just started playing Witcher 3 last month. I can see why people laud it as they do. But, oof, Breath of the Wild was really my first modern sandbox-style game, and at times Witcher 3 seems infuriatingly directed in how they segment the different lands. Like, in order to open up new places, you have to push the story forward. But the stages have soft level requirements (eg "you really should be level 7 to play this land"), and I felt compelled to just grind like mad until I was near to the proper level. I think it's really a problem with how I'm approaching the game, not with the game itself, so after I play a couple smaller games (and eighty thousand more Mario Maker 2 levels), I'll come back and give it a real go.
Oddly, I didnt really have any problem playing Skyrim after Breath of the Wild. I easily sunk maybe two hundred hours into it.
This happened to me with Horizon and BOTW. I was happily playing Horizon for a couple of days before BOTW released.
I then tried to go back to playing Horizon and I absolutely hated the controls and the way Aloy could only climb certain things. Botw effectively ruined Horizon for me, I tried to go back to it a few times since but I still don't enjoy it.
I then tried to go back to playing Horizon and I absolutely hated the controls and the way Aloy could only climb certain things. Botw effectively ruined Horizon for me, I tried to go back to it a few times since but I still don't enjoy it.
Really hoping that Horizon 2 is much more like BOTW for traversal. The game has wonderful animations and by the looks of Death Stranding, the engine is already capable of it.
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Heh, this.
I forgot I have to be extremely precise here in Era when I write things, otherwise most users immediately start getting thing in the most literal way possible. :D
When I talk about "climbing" i'm not necessarily referring to the ability to climb mountains like a goat or walls like a gecko.
Also being able to cross a 1 meter tall fence or jump over a rock which is blocking me is important and it is this which hit me more: the inability, in other games, to do thing which would be easily feasible by a human being.
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Actually, I think this is very fitting in Breath of the Wild.
Link is 116 years old.
I was not a huge fan of the climbing in BotW, but that was because of the weather effects and in the early game with a low stamina wheel.
I did appreciate being able to climb everywhere; I played Horizon Zero Dawn before BotW, and when I went back to Horizon, one of the few ways in which I preferred BotW was in the ability to climb anywhere instead of having to look out for the specific handholds in HZD.
Don't worry about that; BotW is a very good, but flawed game that isn't nearly the best open-world game yet made. The best is yet to come.
I did appreciate being able to climb everywhere; I played Horizon Zero Dawn before BotW, and when I went back to Horizon, one of the few ways in which I preferred BotW was in the ability to climb anywhere instead of having to look out for the specific handholds in HZD.
Don't worry about that; BotW is a very good, but flawed game that isn't nearly the best open-world game yet made. The best is yet to come.
So far AC is still the gold standard for on foot traversal and climbing in open world games. Knowing that you have total freedom and the most fluid transitions between running, climbing, parkour, swimming etc., (seriously transitioning between different modes of traversal in HZD feels so stiff compared to running) fundamentally changes the way you approach the game's space.
Like I really can't stress enough just how good it feels to switch between any mode of traversal in the last two games.
Like I really can't stress enough just how good it feels to switch between any mode of traversal in the last two games.
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That really added NOTHING to BOTW, gameplay-wise.
You go somewhere exploring. Is it raining?
Ok, teleport somewhere else, go back later, continue exploring.
Just annoying.
Lol worst best logic.
Honestly, if link didn't have stamina issues when there was no present threat/he wasn't climbing then that game would have been way better
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They could have achieved this with better effects from clothes.
