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BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
This is my opinion below, as the modern usage of "cancelled" is subjective to a degree.

I'm sure all of us have heard "It's cancelled" about a show or movie in a newer way than it was once used. Instead of literally meaning a project has ended or been shelved, it is more of a personal assessment and declaration of detachment by the individual making the claim. It applies in less conventional ways now to people and brands as well.

The extremity of the qualifications for something being cancelled seem to vary now. Back on Twitter, you'd get the sense that someone like Kevin Spacey was indeed cancelled as all notable opportunities of his for his future have seemed to dry up after his online cancellation. Some fellow progressives here on Era have contended that term and idea is just flawed all the way, as Spacey didn't retroactively lose his wealth (I don't agree with that being a barometer for cancellation, but like I said, there's some subjectivity). Some on Era point to people often stated to be cancelled like Louis CK, being a prime example for why cancellation isn't real - he still has an audience of some kind. I again can't say that restriction means to me he wasn't cancelled - his level of influence, fans, and opportunity is significantly lower than it was as far as I can tell. That to me means he was definitely cancelled by a lot of people. But then some contend that cancellation by some people and not others is not cancellation at all - if they are left with something then it was never cancelled. At least that's how it seems to be discussed when I'm reading recent posts arguing about it.

For a while, it was a pretty uncontentious social term. It is still popular on social media and in hashtags, and I still hear it from my closest friends when they learn something they find unacceptable about someone's behavior or views. "He's cancelled."


The usage was a pop culture moment. Racists, predators and bigots were tainted by the term when being alerted to the public's disapproval of their behavior. Articles covered it and tried to explain its new usage.


But this year I saw backlash, mainly when browsing Era. Searching through thread titles, the first usage of "cancel culture" for a thread title was this year. In September we had a couple large threads placing doubt on the idea. This was the biggest:


Just today I saw a mention of cancelling someone and then backlash against the term being brought up.

At first these backlash threads were weird to me. There had been a more positive thread pointing out the power of "cancel culture" and how it's enabled minorities and women to bring light and conversation around people and activity that once might have quietly stifled them instead. I thought the same - that cancelling someone is just a simple shift in bad things getting called out as bad and losing some of their influence over previous followers as a result.

I got even more confused by posters here who would say stuff like "cancel culture isn't real" and "can you define cancelling someone?" and "show me someone who has actually been cancelled" without any clarity on why they were trying to undermine a common usage of the word.

I searched a bit more and found some ideas about the backlash. It seems like it boils down to a fear that the usage of "cancelled" has been rolled into the term "cancel culture" and progressives don't like this because it is being conflated by bad people with stuff like "PC culture" and "outrage culture" in which the progressives who are trying to make positive awareness and change are being painted as oversensitive, reactionary, and even recklessly oblivious to potential mistakes and harm.

And I guess I could understand that concern. It is true that there are people who think behavior from people like Louis CK or the owner of NeoGAF are not wrongful or think that heavy handed persecutions caused by easily influenced progressive tribes are what make up the backlash. It's true that some people are saying sometimes call-outs and cancellations seem misplaced, to which some on era will reply no one has ever been cancelled and the term is a scapegoat to hurt progressive discussions against bad behavior.

So then I'm thinking the backlash makes sense, but it seems detached from its founding presence on social media and from people I know. It seems like people still like to say people are cancelled and over - typically not in bad faith, as they generally really are expressing intent to detach and call out the subject they're addressing.

In all, I'm ok with the backlash even if I'm not sure about whether it's on to something by cancelling the term "cancelled." I just wish people were a little more clear about why they personally think fellow Era members should avoid validating the term, rather than a snarky post suggesting the person bringing up what they feel is a real thing is actually just ignorant of the real truth that cancellation never happened.

The usage of the word is still prevalent by people using it in good faith and who think it does have worthwhile power in the right cases.
 

TYRANITARR

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,967
It feels the same to me when people years ago were all "dogpiling" on celebrities/politicians.

Like, I think it's right and okay to keep people, who are public, accountable for what they say and do. I mean, we SHOULD ALL be held accountable for what we say/do, but more so if you are a public-facing person.

That said, there's a different between "calling out" someone's sins and pointing out hypocrisy and then calling people "worthless trash" (I read that today in a thread about Michelle Obama) because of something they said or did.


It's definitely a fine line. I think we should continue "calling out" people, but when it leads to "dogpiling" and "canceling", I mean... yeah it gets ugly. I definitely don't see it wrong for someone to feel convicted to personally cancel a product or celebrity or something because you disagree with their beliefs/sayings. I mean, right on, go ahead. I think it just gets messy when you insist that everyone else should follow your own convictions.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,217
In all, I'm ok with the backlash even if I'm not sure about whether it's on to something by cancelling the term "cancelled." I just wish people were a little more clear about why they personally think fellow Era members should avoid validating the term, rather than a snarky post suggesting the person bringing up what they feel is a real thing is actually just ignorant of the real truth that cancellation never happened.
I'd rather people were just a little more clear in what they mean when they say cancel culture because those in good faith typically just mean harrassment campaigns or consequences for poor actions. Using a nebulous term doesn't help, especially when it's commonly used as a dogwhistle and to dismiss minority concerns. Even on this forum people have thrown cancel culture at others for nothing more than discussing things in a single forum topic.

Don't put the onus on others to discern bad faith if you're not willing to make any effort to separate yourself from it.
 

Cokie Bear

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,944
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,972
I've almost exclusively seen "cancel culture" be used by the far right defending assholes from dealing with the consequences of being homophobic/ transphobic/ racist, etc. It's all a dogwhistle.
 

TYRANITARR

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,967
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

I agree. Good post.
 

Deleted member 16908

Oct 27, 2017
9,377
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

Yup.

I've almost exclusively seen "cancel culture" be used by the far right defending assholes from dealing with the consequences of being homophobic/ transphobic/ racist, etc. It's all a dogwhistle.

Whatever you want to call it, it's worth discussing.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
Cancel culture is now just what people call it when celebrities are held accountable. It's become the new "PC gone mad". It's useless, and serves in the vast majority of cases to derail or dismiss concerns. And the vast majority of people who have been "cancelled" still enjoy both wealth and status in mainstream culture.

This is the most lucid piece on "cancel culture" that I've read and I recommend everyone do so: https://newrepublic.com/article/155141/cancel-culture-con-dave-chappelle-shane-gillis
 

Quantza

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
641
It seems like people still like to say people are cancelled and over - typically not in bad faith, as they generally really are expressing intent to detach and call out the subject they're addressing.

This is a true statement about what is happening now.
But the meaning behind 'cancellation' really is just a hope that the offender will be punished, and not have to be dealt with by anyone again.
It's not there to educate, rehabilitate or avoid a problem from happening again.

So, it's fine to have the term. But, I do not think it's fine to only 'cancel' people.
That's just asking for hate, and continued cancellations.
( EDIT: maybe that's the point - we should not cancel if we can help it )

I'm not sure where 'progressive' ties into this either.
That implies that the concept is U.S. centric, and also that cancelling is inherently a political tool - i.e. a tool to push agendas.
For me that implies a possibility of coercion through fear, rather than explanation.

Lastly, some form of cancellation has existed in online forums for probably 20+ years, it's just that moderators would ban people for certain lengths of time, when rules were broken, with the expectation that the user has learned not to do such a thing again. There is no consequence for repeated attempts in social media. You can just make a new account, in any case.

tl;dr no moderation leads to cancel culture.
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,180
Buenos Aires, Argentina
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.
Thank you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,717
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequently on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

I wanted to make a post but you basically said what i wanted to say already.
 

Quantza

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
641
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

This is spot on.
 

Josh5890

I'm Your Favorite Poster's Favorite Poster
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,229
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

Post of the year!
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Can we please stop giving legitimacy to a phrase used by no one other than the alt right and their sympathizers?
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,180
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Yep, as expected, we have a well-articulated post explaining why some people believe it's a thing and then some people just post "lol only the alt-right use it" and leave without engaging with it.

Every single time.
 
Oct 30, 2017
15,278
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.
This deserves a threadmark. It's a perfect explanation.
 

Deleted member 16365

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,127
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

This guy fucks.

What started as a genuine and positive movement to punish people who have done really bad things, like MeToo, evolved into people thinking they have the power to end someone's professional life simply because they didn't something that the internet doesn't like. There is a line, and unfortunately we haven't found it yet. Both of the Star Wars stars have said dumb shit during this press tour, but it's possible that a single line is taken out of context, they're exhausted after months of promotion, and just honestly said something dumb. We need to get back to a world where people are allowed to make an honest mistake and apologize without losing their livelihoods.
 

Deleted member 27246

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,066
Can we please stop giving legitimacy to a phrase used by no one other than the alt right and their sympathizers?

We have someone in this very thread describing his definition and use of Cancel Culture and a lot of people (including me btw) thinking it is a good post.
You seriously think all those people are alt right?
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Can we please stop giving legitimacy to a phrase used by no one other than the alt right and their sympathizers?
Can we stop ignoring the forest for the trees?

The internet in general has a cultural issue. Complaining about the choice of words unnecessarially while ignoring the substance of what's being discussed in an attempt to obfuscate the discussion or otherwise for the sake of doing it is like...the quintessential example of what's wrong.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
People jumping to conclusions without all the info isn't new. Everyone has done it myself included even on era. That doesn't make someone canceled. People online being shitty isn't new either. Just that some people's fuck ups are being dealt with instead of brushed aside isn't cancel culture.

You only get canceled in the eyes of social media when your fuck up is so bad it would be terrible for it not to be addressed.

I've almost exclusively seen "cancel culture" be used by the far right defending assholes from dealing with the consequences of being homophobic/ transphobic/ racist, etc. It's all a dogwhistle.

Also this.
 

Melkezadek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,168
"Canceling" means different things to different people.

For me, at least within the context of a forum, seems to be when a celebrity or personality can't be brought up without someone coming into a thread, without any intention to contribute to the discussion, to remind everyone that this person may have said or done a bad thing. Not only that, but insinuate that if others consume content from said person, that they condone or support their actions - also making you a bad person.

It gets exhausting and it doesn't come across as genuine concern at all. It seems to be a way to cast moral judgement on others by proxy. The pushback is happening because it's becoming pretty clear that people are weaponizing this to defend/attack things they don't like. The knee-jerk responses to recent Star Wars press is a fresh example.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,957
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

To piggyback on this, righteous pithy hyperbole gets signal boosted more than well reasoned criticism.
 

beelulzebub

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.
Yeah, those posts and posters are frustrating, but I wouldn't even say that was a lot of posters in that thread, but visible and quoted enough they REALLY stuck out. Just as big a problem as what you're pointing out were sarcastic drive-bys that said "well I guess he's canceled then."

But the term is also often absolutely used as a dog whistle. Shutting down a discussion by derisively calling it cancel culture is a pretty common bad faith tactic around here. Threads that come to mind are recent Contrapoints or Lindsay Ellis threads, which had far more nuanced discussions to them than the John Boyega thread you mentioned but was filled to the gills with assholes saying "WELL I GUESS SHE'S CANCELED THEN," ignoring the discussion at hand to paint people unfairly as a bunch of hysterics.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
I think it's naive to say it doesn't exist, it just doesn't have that much influence. Occasionally it gains enough traction that it breaks through to the mainstream and actually succeeds, see Roseanne.

And "cancel culture" isn't exclusive to the left, it's just as common from the right. See the Gelette ad, Kaepernick, James Gunn, etc.
 

Cpt-GargameL

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,024
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.
.
 

imbarkus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.



Are we supposed to feel bad for expressing disapproval when that's really the ONLY consequence some of the more unquestionably shitty out there have to face? Isn't this "cancel culture" bitching more about privileged people being called out, for once, due to the newfound easy spread of information they used to hide?

Problem is, your reasoning could be used to ignore problematic celebrities, leaders, even issues, on the basis of "I don't know this person."

Sure there's a mob mentality at play. But I think plenty of times, in truth, we as a group do indeed discover that someone clamoring for praise and attention is actually worthy of neither.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter,

This is a good description of the problem that I have with internet culture.

I don't have a problem with "Cancel culture," I don't think it even really exists outside of the silly response "canceled" to people or things. My wife 'canceled' Taylor Swift at some point, but when LOVER came out I know it was played in our house like a thousand times. My biggest complaint is hot takes lacking any nuance to anything, that the desire to share a devastating opinion about someone or something overwhelms your brain's ability to think before typing or opening your gob. Finger vomit posing as opinion is usually my complaint. I'm less concerned about it with entertainment, people can choose to be entertained by whatever they want or whoever they want, but I'm more concerned with it comes to politics and people who are writing laws. Legislating, in Democracies, usually requires some compromise, but it's increasingly common that we hold that compromise against someone and it's reason to disqualify someone for that. Beyond that, negativity is contagious. I'm not going down the same path in 2020 that we did in 2016, with the exception of one aspiring nominee, whoever the Democratic candidate is who's taking on Trump in 2020, I'm going in with unbridled optimistic fervor, like a disgusting rainbow railroad of optimism.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
I think it's naive to say it doesn't exist, it just doesn't have that much influence. Occasionally it gains enough traction that it breaks through to the mainstream and actually succeeds, see Roseanne.

And "cancel culture" isn't exclusive to the left, it's just as common from the right. See the Gelette ad, Kaepernick, James Gunn, etc.

I'd go even farther to say cancel culture or whatever you want to call it has been around far longer than the internet. They just used to burn you at the stake instead of harassing you on Twitter.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,375
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.
Well said. The John Boyega thread is a good example of that.

People either knowingly or accidentally read something that is said somewhat clumsily and assume the worst and then overreact. The dissenters, who apply a bit of critical thinking and say "I'm not sure that's what he is saying" are castigated for not caring about the issue and defending a perceived wrong.

Basically there's a race to be angry, jump to conclusions and shout down voices that suggest that the worst possible interpretation may not be correct.
 

Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,003
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

that's what it should be, instead it's used whenever someone who does or says something shitty actually has to suffer some consequences.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
Cancelling, aka public shaming, only works if your primary social group or the one you are dependant on decides to cancel you. Which is why conservatives can't be cancelled as they still got their ignorant, fox news watching audiences. Or stars that are so big that they can mantain an audience either way(Dave Chapelle, Kanye West).
 

Jexhius

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
965
Can we stop ignoring the forest for the trees?

The internet in general has a cultural issue. Complaining about the choice of words unnecessarially while ignoring the substance of what's being discussed in an attempt to obfuscate the discussion or otherwise for the sake of doing it is like...the quintessential example of what's wrong.
Attempting to bring clarity and context to a term isn't unecesssry, it's actually the only way to have a real conversation.

If you want to talk about "Cancel Culture" then we can talk about the reality of how that term is used in the media, who weilds it, and what effect it actually has, if any.

If you want to talk more broadly about internet culture then talk about that, specifically. It's actually completely possible to talk about that subject without saying "Cancel Culture". There's no need to conflate terms to the point where they become meaningless.
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,180
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Are we supposed to feel bad for expressing disapproval when that's really the ONLY consequence some of the more unquestionably shitty out there have to face? Isn't this "cancel culture" bitching more about privileged people being called out, for once, due to the newfound easy spread of information they used to hide?

Problem is, your reasoning could be used to ignore problematic celebrities, leaders, even issues, on the basis of "I don't know this person."

Sure there's a mob mentality at play. But I think plenty of times, in truth, we as a group do indeed discover that someone clamoring for praise and attention is actually worthy of neither.
Ah yes, the only two options: burning someone at the stake without waiting to see if we're on the right or just letting shit slide.
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,176
Toronto
Cancel culture isn't a thing in the sense that it isn't some new phenomena to spring up in the current generation - that PC has "gone mad" recently.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,767
Toronto, ON
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

Yeah, it's this. We're talking about a completely different thing here than honest and valid outrage at serious accusations. Instead, this is about a lack of critical thinking, a failure to read, jumping to conclusions, and a desperate attempt to fit in and appear righteous as quickly as possible (while, of course, never returning to say a single word if they are proven wrong).
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,475
Chicago
No one reads anything or puts effort into anything, they rather give into negative loops of thinking and casts judgment for their internet cred.

Sometimes threads are framed in a way that invite this behavior like the Boyega thread.

The moment I read the Boyega thread I knew what he meant.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.
Some of the issue IMO is some people act like it's all or nothing.. either you're dropped, or you're not. We should feel comfortable enough to be able to criticize people without dropping them. Obviously, there are lines in the sand in terms of actions and words, but if someone has earned a lot of good faith over the years (for example, Boyega and Ridley in SW), it's ok to sometimes say "you know what, they really just fucked up this response and should have been clearer", while allowing a chance for clarification. Boyega was able to swiftly provide a correction and apology, now we can move on with our lives. Instead, some people felt the need to drop him right away, completely irrationally.

It doesn't always have to be all or nothing.. and in many cases, it shouldn't be.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,957
I think it's naive to say it doesn't exist, it just doesn't have that much influence. Occasionally it gains enough traction that it breaks through to the mainstream and actually succeeds, see Roseanne.

And "cancel culture" isn't exclusive to the left, it's just as common from the right. See the Gelette ad, Kaepernick, James Gunn, etc.

For all intents and purposes, Kaepernick was cancelled about as well as Rosanne so it's not like the left has the monopoly on its success either.
 

imbarkus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Ah yes, the only two options: burning someone at the stake without waiting to see if we're on the right or just letting shit slide.

Whose burnt at the stake? Who isn't lining up comedy shows bitching exactly about the burden of public disapproval they face, the brave renegades? What consequence do they have to face, other than reading perceptions about their self and actions they don't like?

Like it or not, famous or not, if you're broadcasting to the internet, your responsible for your own optics. Maybe watch the video, Cody is way more articulate than I.


Yeah, it's this. We're talking about a completely different thing here than honest and valid outrage at serious accusations. Instead, this is about a lack of critical thinking, a failure to read, jumping to conclusions, and a desperate attempt to fit in and appear righteous as quickly as possible (while, of course, never returning to say a single word if they are proven wrong).

I believe the alt-right term-du-jour you're searching for here is "virtue signaling."

Look, anything can be taken too far, and I'll be one of the few to state that some of the virtues we've lost from jettisoning religion en masse is forgiveness, and turning the other cheek.

But I care a lot more about spaces like these being available for people who typically have never had a public voice to be able to air their impressions and grievances with the vast amount of poorly chosen public words and actions displayed by privileged people, than I do the hurt feelings of the latter group.

Whatever consequences we explore, they at least serve as something new, a contrast to years of secretly crappy people undeservedly claiming adoration. And, again, not really much, in way of real-world consequences.
 
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jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184


Are we supposed to feel bad for expressing disapproval when that's really the ONLY consequence some of the more unquestionably shitty out there have to face? Isn't this "cancel culture" bitching more about privileged people being called out, for once, due to the newfound easy spread of information they used to hide?

Problem is, your reasoning could be used to ignore problematic celebrities, leaders, even issues, on the basis of "I don't know this person."

Sure there's a mob mentality at play. But I think plenty of times, in truth, we as a group do indeed discover that someone clamoring for praise and attention is actually worthy of neither.

Was going to post this, glad someone else did. Cancel Culture does not exist.
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,180
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Whose burnt at the stake? Who isn't lining up comedy shows bitching exactly about the burden of public disapproval they face, the brave renegades? What consequence do they have to face, other than reading perceptions about their self and actions they don't like?

Like it or not, famous or not, if you're broadcasting to the internet, your responsible for your own optics. Maybe watch the video, Cody is way more articulate than I.
I already watched the video before your post, I still disagree with what you wrote specifically.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
What people describe as cancel culture is nothing new. That's why I find this whole thimg pointless. In the modern era we have social media to make sharing thoughts easier but like, did the term jumping to conclusions only gain relevancy in the last 3 years?

Famous peoplengetting canceled normally only occurs because big business finds that their antics expires their worth. That's like capitalism atvits finest lol.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,140
I've almost exclusively seen "cancel culture" be used by the far right defending assholes from dealing with the consequences of being homophobic/ transphobic/ racist, etc. It's all a dogwhistle.
Pretty much, anyone using it unironically is suspect to me