The progressive blowback against the term “cancel culture”

0x03 · Dec 12, 2019

My problem with "cancel culture" is that it really only works against people whose fan bases/social communities are progressive enough to enforce the punishment. In practice, this means that most folks with power who are cancelled end up re-emerging unscathed once the outrage has moved to its next target, which is a daily occurrence thanks to social media. People then point to them and say "cancel culture isn't real!", while overlooking the many marginalized folks who have been ostracized from their communities for lesser transgressions.

In order to effectively cancel a public figure, it takes very egregious acts of abuse or ignorance. The average American just doesn't have the memory or desire to prevent themselves from consuming things they enjoy unless the circumstances are extreme. But for smaller celebs/online creators (i.e., streamers and influencers), the bar is much lower and they can often lose substantial amounts of their following due to campaigns against them. When these creators are people of color, disabled or LGBTQIA+, being cancelled may mean they're not just subject to financial consequences, but lose access to their community as well.

Which is not to say that being a member of a marginalized group gives you a pass for wrongdoing, but I've routinely seen people who participated in publicly shaming someone retroactively express regret for the dog-piling. And that's not even mentioning the inter-communal politics that factor into which people get called out. I understand the need for tagging people who are abusive or harmful, but I'm less and less convinced that the current method is actually capable of doing so with any sort of nuance.

Uncivilized Elk · Dec 12, 2019

Manu said:
Ah yes, the only two options: burning someone at the stake without waiting to see if we're on the right or just letting shit slide.

Ah yes, calling a person shitty is setting them on fire until they are a deceased smoldering corpse.

Cokie Bear · Dec 12, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
What people describe as cancel culture is nothing new. That's why I find this whole thimg pointless. In the modern era we have social media to make sharing thoughts easier but like, did the term jumping to conclusions only gain relevancy in the last 3 years?

Famous peoplengetting canceled normally only occurs because big business finds that their antics expires their worth. That's like capitalism atvits finest lol.

cancel culture can't exist without the internet. It's absolutely a new thing.

L Thammy · Dec 12, 2019

I think less than the term "cancel culture", what gets me are when terms used to describe the abuse of vulnerable people - things like "lynch mobs" and "witch hunts" - are then taken over and used to belittle attempts to silence vulnerable people and belittle abuse.

It's part of a common set of framing devices. Vulnerable groups are always secretly just a bunch of whiny white male college students talking about problems they don't really care about, while the real victims are the people who are exactly that apathetic and have no desire to present themselves as anything else until called out.

Geoff · Dec 12, 2019

None of this shit matters. Don't get sucked in to wasting time thinking about it.

NoName999 · Dec 12, 2019

Tence said:
We have someone in this very thread describing his definition and use of Cancel Culture and a lot of people (including me btw) thinking it is a good post.
You seriously think all those people are alt right?

Either way, they're still parroting alt right talking points cluelessly.

Dreams-Visions said:
Can we stop ignoring the forest for the trees?

The internet in general has a cultural issue. Complaining about the choice of words unnecessarially while ignoring the substance of what's being discussed in an attempt to obfuscate the discussion or otherwise for the sake of doing it is like...the quintessential example of what's wrong.

Okay then, why are people only complaining when it's a white celebrity that says something dumb? Where was this concern when Leslie Jones or Kelly Marie Tran had an organized hate campaigns to scare them off? Which I would argue is actual cancel culture?

People being exasperated that white celebrity said a dumbass thing is not cancel culture or even a legitimate concern. The Star Wars actors are not visiting this site. And I find hypocritical to complain about people jumping to conclusions only to do it to them by claiming they're just trying to act morally superior. Maybe that person heard that they're mentally weak one to many times. Or something that caused that reaction.

Deleted member 2226 · Dec 12, 2019

Cancel culture is dumb for a lot of reasons. It's just a mob mentality, not really a "culture", It's often used to dismiss legitimate criticisms, and "cancelling" doesn't really have any clear definition—as Jameela Jamil pointed out, most of the people the internet "cancelled" have come right back.

Hilbert · Dec 12, 2019

SJW was used to mock people for complaining online but not actually doing anything.
Cancel Culture is used to shame people for actually doing something.

Kewlmyc · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

This is how I see it, both "cancel culture" and more accurately "mob mentality". It's super tiring.

Gotdatmoney · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
cancel culture can't exist without the internet. It's absolutely a new thing.

Sure it can and it has. We just didn't call it cancel culture. You think that repercussions for things you say and public dissent against you only started in the internet age?

Who has been canceled purely because some people on twitter said you fucking suck without there being any truth to it? People overeacting and jumping to quick conclusions is nothing new

Dyle · Dec 12, 2019

Most of the issues with the idea of cancelling start from the false sense of criticism of public figures being a fundamentally binary concept, as you're either cancelled or not. It frames the world in an overly simplistic way, erases all nuance from the complexity of the modern world, and makes it a rush to judgement, something that needs to be determined instantly. Like basically everything else on the internet, we need to learn how to be patient, avoid distracting hyperbole, and develop our discourse in a way that encourages people to think critically while they consume information and before they post. The challenge is taking the positive, reformative energy that is behind most of the criticism and allowing it to become effective and realize significant results by separating it from the mob mentality of the contemporary internet that turns it into an often negative experience for anyone interested in participating in it.

Stinkles · Dec 12, 2019

Hot take:

most people complaining about cancel culture are doing so reactively because people don't want to change or learn or challenge their old assumptions. Mostwof those people are not evil or hateful they're just the natural outcome of 20th century traditions and norms - either directly or from their parents and peers.

it's easy to believe nonsense about it because there will always be extreme overzealous examples of innocent or mild infractions being cause for being canceled.

the changes happening socially in the US are momentous abd seismic and like the civil rights movement some communities and cultures will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into new assumptions and behaviors.

their resistance is compounded by legitimate confusion of terms and rules because people are generally lazy about learning stuff the older they get. So new and evolving terms like latinx, gender identity language and even pinch points like bathrooms are just hard for people to adjust to through habit.

the rest of thatcluster was f venn circles are hateful and resentful individuals but they're also being encouraged by carpetbagging opportunitists who see an opportunity to ride for free in hate energy- from Trump to Milo and beyond.

optimistically that's going to be true for a couple of decades and entire stateswill be encouraged to slow walk everything by exploitative politicians and interest groups.

churches can play an important role in those communities and so the politicization and corporatization of prosperity Christianity in the USA will be an outsize drag on progress and ironically acceptance and charity.

but the disgraceful embrace of these fractious changes by bad actors in the right wing is going to make a flashpoint out of basic golden rule common sense.

our kids are going to have to carry the biggest burden for change in this and the climate emergency and if we could switch off those influences and deliberate malfeasance peddlers we could make smooth and easy progress on social issues and "cancelculture " could move away from bullshit in the right and purity tests on the left.

but to be honest I'd almost rather hear a Nazi complaining about t than another oblivious old comedian.

L Thammy · Dec 12, 2019

It's also worth noting that the criticism of cancel culture often frames it as one where the internet will just destroy you for a little mistake, whereas the most prominent "victims" of cancel culture were serial abusers who were known quantities for years that had an establishment protecting them. That sort of situation kind of stretches the belief of an "oops."

Deepwater · Dec 12, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
Sure it can and it has. We just didn't call it cancel culture. You think that repercussions for things you say and public dissent against you only started in the internet age?

Who has been canceled purely because some people on twitter said you fucking suck without there being any truth to it? People overeacting and jumping to quick conclusions is nothing new

In 2016-2017, people were positing that "cancel culture" was a phenomonen of ruining people's career (an impact on the material).

Now that we're almost in 2020 and we don't see that happen 99% of the time, the rhetoric has now shifted to criticism of people being levied with a bunch of "fuck yous" because someone said or did something bad 1+ times.

This is why I can't really pay the discourse about the phenomenon or terminology any real concern, because it's not really based on anything. People are just very concerned that you(internet stranger) said "fuck you" or some other dismissive gesture to an internet stranger because they did a thing and they don't think that's right or fair and emblematic of macro sociological trends

Cokie Bear · Dec 12, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
Sure it can and it has. We just didn't call it cancel culture. You think that repercussions for things you say and public dissent against you only started in the internet age?

Who has been canceled purely because some people on twitter said you fucking suck without there being any truth to it? People overeacting and jumping to quick conclusions is nothing new

Of course people jumping to conclusions is Nothing new but the internet completely changes the dynamic of it. Without the internet this stuff was very localised. Nowadays, anyone can say something that gets misinterpreted, go to bed and wake up with an inbox full of hate mail from people from all corners of the globe. It's completely different from how things were even 10-15 years ago.

enzo_gt · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

In my perfect world, this post inspires mods/ToS changes so that the myopic, holier-than-thou, reactionary, and dehumanizing shitposting that infects so much of EtcetEra discussion is moderated against.

They don't even have to be wrong, the self-righteousness and intolerance on this forum is so hypocritical given the people that usually are the subject of criticism are accused of being. Product of the echo chamber this community was intended to be, TBH. I don't know if that really can be changed but political discussion is going to continue to be terrible here so long as people keep making threads with misleading/single-perspective thread titles to win brownie points from other shitposters.

Bob White · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

Hidden Lemon is the best Lemon.

Link · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

It's gotten so ridiculously out of control on ERA because moderation encourages it. Just as a recent example, you had multiple posters banned for a month because they said women prefer to date men taller than them. The explanation was "sexism." I was previously called a homophobe and banned for two weeks for saying I thought "And I oop" was a stupid meme. When even moderation has a hair trigger like that, it's going to propagate that kind of mindset.

Froli · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

This. I have seen this so many times

Principate · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
Of course people jumping to conclusions is Nothing new but the internet completely changes the dynamic of it. Without the internet this stuff was very localised. Nowadays, anyone can say something that gets misinterpreted, go to bed and wake up with an inbox full of hate mail from people from all corners of the globe. It's completely different from how things were even 10-15 years ago.

That's an inevitable outcome of human being "jumping to conclusions". As you this has always happened people simply didn't have means contact to celebrities before. Now they do. There's no culture that's evolved around it, it's simply basic 1+1=2. It was the one and only inevitable outcome the second that contact was established.

Gotdatmoney · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
Of course people jumping to conclusions is Nothing new but the internet completely changes the dynamic of it. Without the internet this stuff was very localised. Nowadays, anyone can say something that gets misinterpreted, go to bed and wake up with an inbox full of hate mail from people from all corners of the globe. It's completely different from how things were even 10-15 years ago.

That's called the advancement of technology. It doesn't mean suddenly there is an influx of people with ruined careers. It just means information travels faster. That rapid up take of information distribution hasn't just started 10-15 years ago.

Even so. Does getting internet hate equal being canceled? People being shitty and able to do it faster doesn't equal this new phenomena.

Lundren · Dec 12, 2019

Cancel culture being real is something I dismiss outright. I have always chosen where to spend my money or who to watch/read, was I cancelling people without a word to describe it or was I doing what every human has done throughout history?

Cancel culture being primarily an internet phenomena is something that I can't even wrap my head around. Are we going to pretend that hate mail from fans wasn't a thing?

Either way, anyone who brings up cancel culture is just throwing out a hot take in response to what they perceive as a hot take. Boycott whoever you want for any reason you want. Feel free to bring up someone's shitty thoughts or actions when you see the person discussed. Crying about how mean people are and how you shouldn't paint with a broad brush, while doing the same damn thing is pointless.

Biggersmaller · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

Cokie Bear · Dec 12, 2019

Principate said:
That's an inevitable outcome of human being "jumping to conclusions". As you this has always happened people simply didn't have means contact to celebrities before. Now they do. There's no culture that's evolved around it, it's simply basic 1+1=2. It was the one and only inevitable outcome the second that contact was established.

I don't believe "cancel culture" is literally a culture. It's just a term to describe a specific pattern of behaviour. Same as "outrage culture". And it's a very internet specific behaviour, people tend to have more nuance in the real world.

Lundren · Dec 12, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
Even so. Does getting internet hate equal being canceled? People being shitty and able to do it faster doesn't equal this new phenomena.

Yup.

To add to this, it's only ever cancel culture when assholes are getting the hate. That's why people are saying it has strong ties to the alt-right.

Z-Beat · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

Pretty much

Cokie Bear · Dec 12, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
That's called the advancement of technology. It doesn't mean suddenly there is an influx of people with ruined careers. It just means information travels faster. That rapid up take of information distribution hasn't just started 10-15 years ago.

Even so. Does getting internet hate equal being canceled? People being shitty and able to do it faster doesn't equal this new phenomena.

read my first post in the thread to see how I define cancel culture. It's not the same as whatever you're talking about.

Lundren · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
read my first post in the thread to see how I define cancel culture. It's not the same as whatever you're talking about.

Makes the term useless if we all choose different definitions for it.

Cokie Bear · Dec 12, 2019

Lundren said:
Makes the term useless if we all choose different definitions for it.

How do you propose we all decide on a unified definition for something people are claiming doesn't exist?

Boiled Goose · Dec 12, 2019

People complaining about other people complaining has always been ironic to me.

Cancel culture is a right wing term to excuse shitty behavior.

Deleted member 29195 · Dec 12, 2019

NoName999 said:
Either way, they're still parroting alt right talking points cluelessly.

Okay then, why are people only complaining when it's a white celebrity that says something dumb? Where was this concern when Leslie Jones or Kelly Marie Tran had an organized hate campaigns to scare them off? Which I would argue is actual cancel culture?

People being exasperated that white celebrity said a dumbass thing is not cancel culture or even a legitimate concern. The Star Wars actors are not visiting this site. And I find hypocritical to complain about people jumping to conclusions only to do it to them by claiming they're just trying to act morally superior. Maybe that person heard that they're mentally weak one to many times. Or something that caused that reaction.

People in this thread were talking about Boyega. He's not a white guy.

Manu · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
How do you propose we all decide on a unified definition for something people are claiming doesn't exist?

And even if they're right, why is the response "this isn't cancel culture lol" instead of "this is not cancel culture but it's still wrong and needs to stop"'?

ryutaro's mama · Dec 12, 2019

Dreams-Visions said:
Can we stop ignoring the forest for the trees?

The internet in general has a cultural issue. Complaining about the choice of words unnecessarially while ignoring the substance of what's being discussed in an attempt to obfuscate the discussion or otherwise for the sake of doing it is like...the quintessential example of what's wrong.

👆🏾

Lundren · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
How do you propose we all decide on a unified definition for something people are claiming doesn't exist?

Use whatever other words to say what you mean, rather than using a word that even the people who agree with you can't decide on a definition to.

Your initial post literally says "if this is your definition, I guess it doesn't exist." Why keep using a word when you know that your definition is just yours?

8byte · Dec 12, 2019

Let's just cancel the internet? Like, all of it.

It's poison (and I LOVE my poison).

Lundren · Dec 12, 2019

Manu said:
And even if they're right, why is the response "this isn't cancel culture lol" instead of "this is not cancel culture but it's still wrong and needs to stop"'?

I'm sure people have said variations of that at points.

Cokie Bear · Dec 12, 2019

Lundren said:
Use whatever other words to say what you mean, rather than using a word that even the people who agree with you can't decide on a definition to.

Your initial post literally says "if this is your definition, I guess it doesn't exist." Why keep using a word when you know that your definition is just yours?

Because about 30 people in this thread have quoted that post to say that it mirrors their definition. It's not "my" definition, it's clearly a definition used by a lot of people.

To be honest, the only time I've seen cancel culture defined as scrubbing all evidence of a person away and ruining their career/life is when people try to argue that cancel culture doesn't exist.

"Cancel Culture doesn't exist because Louis CK still gets work". Since when was never working again the definition of "cancel culture"? I've honestly never seen it used in that context outside to say that cancel culture doesn't exist.

BringBackSonics · Dec 12, 2019

Some people are quick to judgement, but I agree many using 'cancel culture' tend to fit the alt-right defending folks. But people jumping to conclusions has always been a thing. I remember the ridicule that the woman who burned herself on McDonald's coffee. Or the lady that got seriously harassed because she sued her nephew because he gave her a hug and it hurt her.

NoName999 · Dec 12, 2019

aspaceseaman said:
People in this thread were talking about Boyega. He's not a white guy.

The exception that proves the rule

Thuddert · Dec 12, 2019

Cancel culture doesn't exist in the sense that all the one that gets called out doesn't really get cancelled, they get little to no repercussions.

It really feels like a joke whenever people use X got cancelled. No, they got called out and you have to live with the fact the image you held them on wasn't right.

Deleted member 17184 · Dec 12, 2019

I just feel that cancel culture doesn't work. There are people I'd never support, but that doesn't mean their behavior is any less problematic.

Calling out and demanding for change? Absolutely. That's what brings improvement.

Scuffed · Dec 12, 2019

I don't think there is a conversation to be had when speaking to it as an umbrella phenomenon. It's a case by case thing. If a public figure commits a terrible act such as abuse or extreme insensitivity then chances are they get shit on and forgiveness is not guaranteed. If a public figure says something that is insensitive BUT apologizes and communicates an understanding of why what they said was wrong then chances are they are given the benefit of the doubt and people move on.

All of this is dependant on the current image they have and their history. If they have been dog whistling bad things for awhile then eventually slip up and expose how they truly are then an apology is less effective.

Obama made some silly comments about wokeness but that was just self serving imo because he gets hate for being besties with a Bush who is a war criminal. His statement wasn't coming from an honest place but many have used it as a launching pad to fight "cancel culture." The truth is that those making money through politics and celebrity are now being held more accountable and overall it's a good thing.

Wafflinson · Dec 12, 2019

Link said:
It's gotten so ridiculously out of control on ERA because moderation encourages it. Just as a recent example, you had multiple posters banned for a month because they said women prefer to date men taller than them. The explanation was "sexism." I was previously called a homophobe and banned for two weeks for saying I thought "And I oop" was a stupid meme. When even moderation has a hair trigger like that, it's going to propagate that kind of mindset.

Yup. They actively push it.

You call someone out for a thread that is deceptive, incomplete, or an outright lie and you get shouted down as an apologist, accused of being racist or homophobic, etc.... and often you get banned. Because the lies follow the desired narrative of the majority of the forum... and in that case truth doesn't matter.

On the other hand the posters who push threads which are outright lies and deceptions AT WORST get their threads closed.... even though THEY were the ones who made the conflict inevitable, not the people who reacted to it.

Mona · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.

I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.

That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.

Well there it is

Siggy-P · Dec 12, 2019

Usually people complaining about cancel culture pop up before anyone actually tries to "cancel" someone.

Sometimes Celebes are unjustly attacked (as we seen with Boyega today/yesterday), but the term "cancel" almost always comes up on this forum as a pre-emptive defensive dismissal of what someone genuinely awful did.

It sidetracks topics from actually talking about what the person did to discussing or arguing about a meta-narrative

TissueBox · Dec 12, 2019

Do NOT cancel the Tories, pizza is at stake!!

Lundren · Dec 12, 2019

Hidden Lemon said:
Because about 30 people in this thread have quoted that post to say that it mirrors their definition. It's not "my" definition, it's clearly a definition used by a lot of people.

To be honest, the only time I've seen cancel culture defined as scrubbing all evidence of a person away and ruining their career/life is when people try to argue that cancel culture doesn't exist.

And how many people in the thread have said that cancel culture isn't new thing, and people have boycotted things and people they don't like or agree with?

People get punished for their shitty views or actions all the time. This has been something that has happened since being able to punish someone by hurting their wallet was a thing.

saenima · Dec 12, 2019

The only people using cancel culture unironically are fearful moderate centrists and rightwing hacks.

'Cancel culture' is essentially holding people accountable for the shit they say and do. And some people apparently think that's wrong.

plagiarize · Dec 12, 2019

Stinkles said:
Hot take:

most people complaining about cancel culture are doing so reactively because people don't want to change or learn or challenge their old assumptions. Mostwof those people are not evil or hateful they're just the natural outcome of 20th century traditions and norms - either directly or from their parents and peers.

it's easy to believe nonsense about it because there will always be extreme overzealous examples of innocent or mild infractions being cause for being canceled.

the changes happening socially in the US are momentous abd seismic and like the civil rights movement some communities and cultures will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into new assumptions and behaviors.

their resistance is compounded by legitimate confusion of terms and rules because people are generally lazy about learning stuff the older they get. So new and evolving terms like latinx, gender identity language and even pinch points like bathrooms are just hard for people to adjust to through habit.

the rest of thatcluster was f venn circles are hateful and resentful individuals but they're also being encouraged by carpetbagging opportunitists who see an opportunity to ride for free in hate energy- from Trump to Milo and beyond.

optimistically that's going to be true for a couple of decades and entire stateswill be encouraged to slow walk everything by exploitative politicians and interest groups.

churches can play an important role in those communities and so the politicization and corporatization of prosperity Christianity in the USA will be an outsize drag on progress and ironically acceptance and charity.

but the disgraceful embrace of these fractious changes by bad actors in the right wing is going to make a flashpoint out of basic golden rule common sense.

our kids are going to have to carry the biggest burden for change in this and the climate emergency and if we could switch off those influences and deliberate malfeasance peddlers we could make smooth and easy progress on social issues and "cancelculture " could move away from bullshit in the right and purity tests on the left.

but to be honest I'd almost rather hear a Nazi complaining about t than another oblivious old comedian.

Yeah.

Cancel culture is something people fear, but it's not really a thing. Even if you take it to refer to overreactions to things like Daisy Ridley and John Boyega's recent interview quotes, or peoples rush to criticize Joey Janela before we got more information, none of these people were cancelled.

People see patterns when they shouldn't. If I start a sentence with 'I don't see color' you'd waiting for me to follow it up with something racist.

None of those three people were cancelled. They got a day of shit on social media, and people moved on. Compare that to real extended harassment and you'll see it isn't the same. Hell it's nothing like Tran suffered post TLJ.

So yes, given how many people have revealed how shitty they are in the last few years, people *fear* their favorite celebs are secretly bigots. So when that celeb says something along those lines, people panic and fear the worst, because they've been seeing the worst play out again and again.

But that's it.

It's not orchestrated. No one is picking these targets. It's a result of people having had their able to give the benefit of the doubt reduced down next to nothing, by real painful truths that have been spilling out, blossoming to another level with #metoo.

Who actually got cancelled anyway? James Gunn didn't (and that was purely a cynical and orchestrated attempt to end him). Chris Hardwick didn't. Is Jeremy Piven cancelled? You could maybe make an argument, but he doesn't seem to be if you ask me.

Ruisu · Dec 12, 2019

It's always "fair critiscism" and "a few vocal shitheads being extreme" with these things isn't it. Everyone all for holding people accountable for their actions, but then when it's brought up that the calling out is enabling serious harrassment, these people will be really quick to act like they had nothing at all to do with it. And just to be direct I am talking about what happened with contrapoints. I've seen more than enough people saying that her leaving twitter and limiting her responses to patreon was "trying to avoid accountability", ignoring completely that people aren't obligated to deal with harrassement on-line to try and filter out whatever "fair critiscism" is mixed in the middle of it.

You'd think that gamergate would have taught that lesson already.

The progressive blowback against the term “cancel culture”

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