The resistance on reducing meat consumption

[farmland]

I went vegan partially due to the ecological impact. It took me a few years to do it as I started with cutting animals products from breakfast, following later by lunch and then finally dinner and honestly I've managed to convince all of my family to reduce their meat consumption. None of them have become vegan but they cook vegan meals about three times a week now, so perhaps talk to people in your offline life?

Also, the dichotomy between personal and systemic change is more blurred than people think. I find when I work to personally improve myself, I end working on larger goals and getting involved with groups that are trying to affect larger change as a consequence of that development.

 

[jwk94]

Because people are, as a rule, stupid and selfish. They think "but this is important to me," and that outweighs everything else.

Eventually people will adjust. It just takes time, money, and a good PR campaign. But I'm sure the same stubborn people will be 90 years old whining about how their lab-burger just isn't the same as the cow ones.

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I mean it's gonna take a while for lab grown meat to be the same as actual meat

 

[Pomerlaw]

Yep . It's nice to have threads like this, cause it's a good reality check of how fucked we are

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I'll be brutally honest here... Not everyone is as depressive and spoiled as the average posters on this forum are. There are also the casual posters who will just post something edgy to get attention.

We should be careful about concluding anything from responses in this thread.

 

[Powdered Egg]

Vegan's once again one of the most hated and diminished minorities on what calls itself a progressive forum.

The amount of cognitive dissonancegoing on here is truly astounding.

Sure just remove any responsibility or culpability in one of the most destructive industries human history has known. But by all means you don't need to shit on the few people questioning why everyone is purposefully staying blind and deaf to mass suffering and destruction.

To quote historian Yuval Noah Harari:

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You really posted this on a board with minority and lgbtq members and wonder why people laugh at vegans.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

I was a vegetarian for five years, so if a meal doesn't have meat = no problem. It isn't super cut and dry though for everyone and be mindful of that while discussing this.

Edit: Lolyshit this thread went places. Vegan=Repressed Minority.

 

[frankenstrat]

Yikes at the minorities post. I completely cut beef and pork as much as I could so I'm already there but damn dude, cmon.

 

[Dog of Bork]

Yikes at the minorities post. I completely cut beef and pork as much as I could so I'm already there but damn dude, cmon.

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I really want to know, does the oppression hit after your first vegan meal or does it happen in stages?

 

[ty_hot]

It is really hard for me to look at a plate that is meatless and think that I will be satisfied with that. But I've had plenty of meatless meals that were great. One thing that helps on 'feeling full' is haven whole food always in your plate.

Nowadays I think it's worst to have a meal without any sauce than without any meat. I am not vegetarian or vegan, btw. Just try and look for something you really enjoy (other than meat) and try focusing on that for a few meals. For example, I could eat a plate of rice and creamed corn, easily. And I don't eat ANY beef just because it is beef (btw, beef in Europe sucks).

I think at some point I will reduce to almost zero my beef consumption, but for now I really don't want that.

 

[Hycran]

Ideally I'd like to keep my meat consumption the same but just have people eat more sustainable and eco friendly meat like bison or goat. I think everyone knows cattle are a big problem in the food chain so I've cut my consumption accordingly, but no way no how am I giving up chicken. Pork I'm iffy on.

 

[jwk94]

I wonder what meat alternatives people have tried in this thread. Y'all can't be seriously referring to Beyond Burger or Impossible Burger with adjectives like "disgusting". It's not realistic.

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It's not disgusting but the impossible Burger tastes like sausage patties, not beef, so it's not quite there yet.

 

[Tezz]

Spoiler

I'm a hypocrite though.

 

[Powdered Egg]

I really want to know, does the oppression hit after your first vegan meal or does it happen in stages?

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Lmao.

My friend's ex seriously said she knows what racism feels like because she gets made fun of for being vegan. I slightly lost respect for my friend for even dating her.

 

[Ascenion]

I'm just not gonna stop eating meat. I work too hard and make too much money to be told I need to give up something. I don't give a crap I'm gonna eat meat no matter what. We'll have to agree to disagree. If Steak or Bacon or Pork loin or chicken or turkey or duck or deer or anything I want to eat is available and I can I will. So my answer is I'm not resisting I'm outright refusing.

 

[PrimeBeef]

Selfish and insecure. Too many feel it's emasculating not to eat meat regularly. I used to be called less of a man for preferring chicken to steak.

 

[RockmanBN]

I just love eating meat. So until there's an alternative that tastes/feels 100% like the real thing, I'm not going to drop it.

 

[Pandaman]

Human beings have difficulty sustaining long term dietary changes.

You'd be doing more good committing to never flying, easier too.

 

[Dice]

I'm just not gonna stop eating meat. I work too hard and make too much money to be told I need to give up something. I don't give a crap I'm gonna eat meat no matter what. We'll have to agree to disagree. If Steak or Bacon or Pork loin or chicken or turkey or duck or deer or anything I want to eat is available and I can I will. So my answer is I'm not resisting I'm outright refusing.

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No need to be this sensitive, OP asked for a cut in consumption, not any quittin'.

 

[frankenstrat]

Human beings have difficulty sustaining long term dietary changes.

You'd be doing more good committing to never flying, easier too.

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I feel like while this is a good idea, it can be made untenable by financial circumstances that would prevent one from flying in the first place (or being able to take the time off work to drive, say, cross country).

 

[SolicitorPirate]

It's dumb how the forum can be so united when climate change is someone else's problem off on capital hill, but then when it comes to personal responsibility it's suddenly "oh dont hurt my feelings this is my choice to make why is OP so harsh." Weak

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The heart and soul of Era laid bare in a single post.

It's why I scoff at all the progressive postering here and in similar communities. People here are infinitely more interested in finding villains and shitting on them from high than in putting an iota of effort into bettering their communities, especially if it comes at personal inconvenience

 

[Polioliolio]

Think about it. If resetera's alt left can't even be bothered to attempt a 30% meat cut without firing back, there is zero, absolute zero fucking hope that mankind can curb climate change.

 

[Professor Beef]

I am not shaming you for eating meat.

The question is why do you feel OK with putting results onto future generations because you can't be arsed cutting the consumption of it by 30%.

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i dunno, the second sentence kinda contradicts that first one

 

[FinalStageBoss]

I'd like to eat more meat tbh, I've been slacking recently

 

[lmx]

Why has no one mentioned lab grown meat yet?

 

[sph3re]

If I can scrap use of animal products by 100% then surely others can cut their meat consumption by 30%?

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I always find this logic so frustrating

I know literally nothing about you, and if I did, everybody is different and does not have the same mindset

 

[sanstesy]

I work too hard and make too much money to be told I need to give up something. I don't give a crap I'm gonna eat meat no matter what.

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This is it. That's the thought process of all the people that could really make a change.

It's survival of the fittest and humans aren't fit for preventing forseeable long-term consequences.

 

[Window]

Yeah you're not gonna get anywhere with this subject on this forum (or most places). People want to fight climate change as long it doesn't require voluntary inconvenience or change of habits. Everything has to be driven from the top down apparently. Even then, I have my doubts about people voting for politicians who hold positions on imposing meat consumption reduction policies.

 

[Tito]

Human beings have difficulty sustaining long term dietary changes.

You'd be doing more good committing to never flying, easier too.

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Exactly.

The impact of a meat lover person (not even regular person) eating meat for a year is about the same as flying a round trip on an airplane in economy to another continent. Multiply it by 8 if you travel in business.

The fact that people can't recognize the simple fact that much smaller changes in their lives have a much bigger impact on the ecosystem is unnerving.

You could leave the car one or two days a week at home, you could stop traveling to expensive vacations to the latest trending millennial destinations (now it's Africa, before it was South East Asia) and take vacations locally, you could trade your huge useless truck with a small car, not even electric, etc.

The fact that eating meat is treated like a capital sin by some, and stopping eating it would solve all our problems, is incredibly stupid.

And I like meat, but I still eat once or twice a week lentils or beans.

Stopping meat consumption is a HUGE downgrade in ones quality of life, and the impact is very low.

It's more efficient to change small habits that have a huge impact.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

An atheist, a vegan, and a CrossFitter walk into a bar...

 

[Window]

Exactly.

The impact of a meat lover person (not even regular person) eating meat for a year is about the same as flying a round trip on an airplane in economy to another continent. Multiply it by 8 if you travel in business.

The fact that people can't recognize the simple fact that much smaller changes in their lives have a much bigger impact on the ecosystem is unnerving.

You could leave the car one or two days a week at home, you could stop traveling to expensive vacations to the latest trending millennial destinations (now it's Africa, before it was South East Asia) and take vacations locally, you could trade your huge useless truck with a small car, not even electric, etc.

The fact that eating meat is treated like a capital sin by some, and stopping eating it would solve all our problems, is incredibly stupid.

And I like meat, but I still eat once or twice a week lentils or beans.

Stopping meat consumption is a HUGE downgrade in ones quality of life, and the impact is very low.

It's more efficient to change small habits that have a huge impact.

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I don't think the OP called for a to stop all meat consumption, just for reduction. As you say, small change of habits in all things a person does adds up to have a huge impact.

 

[Samara]

I buy my husband meat. I'm vegetarian and I don't think I've ever shamed him into eating vegetarian. He does recycling more than me.

I don't think I would be able to reduce his meat consumption. But I do make him taste my meat alternative.

We both agree that tempeh is shit.

 

[darkvir]

The heart and soul of Era laid bare in a single post.

It's why I scoff at all the progressive postering here and in similar communities. People here are infinitely more interested in finding villains and shitting on them from high than in putting an iota of effort into bettering their communities, especially if it comes at personal inconvenience

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Yes, completely agree.

 

[Dream Machine]

I buy meat, fruits, and vegetables mostly from local producers. I grow some of my own vegetables over summer and fall. I eat what I want and have a lower carbon footprint than the vegans getting their products and supplements produced and flown in from all over the world.

Life's good.

 

[Pandaman]

The heart and soul of Era laid bare in a single post.

It's why I scoff at all the progressive postering here and in similar communities. People here are infinitely more interested in finding villains and shitting on them from high than in putting an iota of effort into bettering their communities, especially if it comes at personal inconvenience

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Atleast you managed to find your villains.

 

[SnakeXs]

I'm just not gonna stop eating meat. I work too hard and make too much money to be told I need to give up something. I don't give a crap I'm gonna eat meat no matter what. We'll have to agree to disagree. If Steak or Bacon or Pork loin or chicken or turkey or duck or deer or anything I want to eat is available and I can I will. So my answer is I'm not resisting I'm outright refusing.

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Your choice is one thing. Your pride in it is quite another, and is frankly off putting.

This thread just ain't for me. Hypocrisy and selfishness on full blast.

 

[spineless jelly]

I take personal responsibility and try to act moral in my own way. I do recycle, purchase ethically sourced food, exclusively take public transit, walk or cycle, and so on. What I'm not going to do is condemn other people for not doing those things because I recognize that those choices, though they make a marginal dent, pales in comparison to the evil done by corporations and the governments that enable them and what our collectively political inaction allows to happen. That's because everyone is guilty of participating in markets that enable to evil, as the meme goes there's no ethical consumption in capitalism. What I'm arguing for isn't the abdication of responsibility, but unity in enacting real change and the abandonment of sanctimonious judgemental attitudes like the OP and so many others in this thread.

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How do you write this without seeing the massive contradictions here? So, most of the evil, as you say, is done by corporations and government but you then exonerate everyone else of wrongdoing and then say that global capitalism is a completely interdependent nexus of human activity that's totally inescapable? wut? The state and corporations don't exist in a vacuum. God, that Carbon Majors study is going to do more harm than good... Most of the pillaging and destruction of the planet is funded if not tacitly endorsed by first worlders of all classes through consumption habits. The fact every nation state is left standing right now while we type posts to each other is another form of complicity to me. Sadly, even those angelic proles have some blood drying on their hands, too. I know that doesn't jive with the simplistic oppressed/oppressor narrative that's a staple for sloppy thinking now and then on the left (of which I consider myself).

My biggest fear with this framing is that a bunch of people rest on their laurels and we end up with no transformative political change in the end. So, just years of stewing in nihilism and "lol 100 evul companies do all bad shit" as the catastrophe unfolds day by day and business goes on as usual. Even minute upticks in temp will be significant at this point, and I am not just considering the well-being of humans. That's not even taking into account that the post-revolutionary eco-socialist world you hope for these questions of consumption and lifestyle will remain. They're not going away whether anyone likes it or not.

We should be emphasizing unity of means and ends, which is deeply ingrained in anarchism but largely lost on the statist tendencies of the left, who selectively channel Marx's amoralism and use it as a cheap crutch when cornered. I don't have much hope.

 

[curiouscharles]

Meat is cheap for the most part and a majority of people have been eating it all their lives.

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LOL.

Meat is cheap...

LOL.

Yup, I went flexitarian recently (for ethical and financial reasons) saving fuckloads of money and stinking much less.

 

[Takyon]

You can also just eat more chicken instead of beef.

 

[CostcoCousteau]

make meat great again

 

[Dragnipur]

Y'all vegans can try biking to work as well, I know its an inconvenience but if its for the environment, then who cares?

 

[Avis]

Y'all vegans can try biking to work as well, I know its an inconvenience but if its for the environment, then who cares?

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Most of the vegans I know do? It's cheaper, healthy and (in my opinion) more fun.

 

[Seeya]

Why has no one mentioned lab grown meat yet?

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I mentioned it on the last page. People will always go for what it convenient and optimal enough. Just look at how the key to combating piracy ended up being Netflix and iTunes. The odds of there being some global awakening where our per person consumption plummets by so much as to shift the needle is very small. That would only result in lower prices to entice and incentivize people into eating meat once more, particularly because of how integrated the meat industry is to supply chain management and politics.

You aren't going to stop people from eating meat, particularly in the western and European cultures where meat consumption is very high.

Even if the world reduced its per person meat consumption by 30%, that doesn't stop the increases in overall consumption due to the ever increasing population.

We don't what to create some prohibition like scenario because of overall health concerns, but we couldn't even if we wanted to.

So the longer term solution is to mitigate or eliminate the ethical and environmental issues of meat production while preserving or rather not disruptively altering general consumption. Though we COULD Mandate no meat, I doubt that any democracies have the stomachs for it.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/is-lab-grown-meat-ready-for-dinner-1539701100

The good news is that costs for meat grown in the reactors has been dropping dramatically since the start of the decade.

Here's a question, I wonder how much money is thrown at the meat industry in subsidies every year in the west, and what that would look like applied to the 'clean meat' industry.

 

[Don Fluffles]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm vegan, but with the recent report on climate change and the call for cutting meat consumption by 30%: why is there so much resistance on this?

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The taste, texture and accessibility of protein makes meat a universally loved food and staple in much of the world's diet. If this study is the case, I'm willing to give it up for the future. We just need to make lab-grown meat viable already.

 

[Pandaman]

All these doe eyed innocents arguing that corporations are beholden to the whims of the consumer base and merely exercising personal agency will shift their activity.

And in the other corner:
Half a trillion dollars a year spent on marketing and advertisement.

 

[MeaningOfKarma]

It blows me away that something as reasonable and mild as "maybe you could reduce meat consumption by 30%" is met with a full-on blast of grown adults pitching a fit.

Clownshoes.

 

[Deleted member 25580]

I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but reducing my meat intake was good for me. My girlfriend is vegan, in a way that helped me discover new kind of dishes.

I probably won't eliminate meat completely, but I don't eat it everyday. At first it was tough to feel satisfied after a meal, but you get used to it. I eat more often.

 

[Kanann]

Already did my job.

Still love meat but 30-50% reducing has no negative impact, it's make me more slimmer too.

 

[Deleted member 46429]

I haven't looked at the meat consumption article yet, but my biggest concern with articles that take an approach 'here's what you, a consumer can do" is that they constantly frame environmental issues as if they can even be incumbent on consumers. By redirecting action, say from fossil fuels industry to meat consumers, consumers fight amongst themselves and we can lose focus.

There's other secondary issues as well. Cultivated meat, for example, seems like something that'd benefit everyone if/when that becomes a technology, in which case something like meat consumption wouldn't fix itself. I'm not saying wait it out and hope the market corrects itself; but if we're going to correct the market through government regulation and such, let's at least start with the biggest offenders and the one's least likely to correct themselves, which again, is fossil fuels.

Edit; Oh dear, finding this labeled as a climate myth on skeptical science has me concerned. Skeptical science is basically the wikipedia of global warming denialism. I haven't read details, but sharing the link regardless.

 

[curiouscharles]

Your choice is one thing. Your pride in it is quite another, and is frankly off putting.

This thread just ain't for me. Hypocrisy and selfishness on full blast.

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Yup.

These topics bring out the saddest parts of human hypocrisy.

#babies

 

[sabrina]

Sometimes it feels like most people don't actually believe in climate change. Actions speak way louder than words here.

Y'all vegans can try biking to work as well, I know its an inconvenience but if its for the environment, then who cares?

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I started riding my bike to work long before I cut beef out of my diet. Best change I ever made.

 

[Anaron]

Comparing the general tone of the replies in threads like this one vs threads about climate change on this forum is always fun.

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It's hilarious. Cant even suggest lessening consumption of one of the strongest contributions to climate change cuz "meat tho"