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EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Great video (~25 minutes) from VICE that goes into the exact people who promote false flag bullshit and their mentalities.



In Vice's own words:
Over the past 10 years, a growing online community of conspiracy theorists and hoaxers known as "truthers" has come to question the official narratives behind every mass shooting that is heavily covered by the media. A common thread in these theories is the government's role in staging the tragedy with the help of mainstream news, in order to manipulate the general population. In this continuously recycled narrative, the death and destruction of the tragic event is faked, and victims and their families are "crisis actors," who are performing a role in order to elicit sympathy that can then be used to advocate for new gun laws, or anti-terror surveillance that restricts Americans' freedom. The commitment to these narratives has escalated to the point where victims are frequently harassed, mocked, and even threatened in retaliation for their supposed deception. We meet some of the proponents of false flag theories, including Side Thorn, a conspiracy theorist in texas who has been confronting survivors of the Sutherland Springs mass shooting, as well as Tony Mead, administrator of the largest Facebook community dedicated to False Flag narratives, and Wolfgang Halbig, a former school administrator who made a name for himself with the claim that no one died at the Sandy Hook shooting. We also talk to people targeted by hoax theories, like Lenny Pozner whose son Noah was killed in the Sandy Hook shooting, David Hogg, who was accused of being a "crisis actor" for his calls for gun control after the mass shooting at his high school in Parkland, Florida, and Frank Pomeroy, whose daughter was killed in the Sutherland Springs shooting.
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,829
It's upsetting what the victims have to go through. I can't even imagine dealing with crap like this on top of your loss and grief. This can be stopped by laws though. Here in Germany any person who denies the Holocaust happened will get into legal trouble and it gets really serious if he or she continues to do so. Laws like that just need to be applied to other conspiracy theroies. You can debate were you draw the lne but it has clearly been crossed when victims are stalked and harassed.
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,832
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Bakercat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,154
'merica
If I remember correctly from my experience, I think these crisis actors ideas started around the batman theater shooting and really got going with Sandy Hook. I used to watch these videos for fun when I was a teen, but some people are able to spin these ideas in ways that sound legit and that's probably why these have so many followers. It's hard to discredit this stuff when they can pump out bullshit daily without any fact checking while good research and study can take weeks or months to get going.
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
If I remember correctly from my experience, I think these crisis actors ideas started around the batman theater shooting and really got going with Sandy Hook. I used to watch these videos for fun when I was a teen, but some people are able to spin these ideas in ways that sound legit and that's probably why these have so many followers. It's hard to discredit this stuff when they can pump out bullshit daily without any fact checking while good research and study can take weeks or months to get going.

I think it more has to do with these people being dumber than dogshit rather than the arguments being so convincing.
 

adj_noun

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,169
I always want to ask these people what agency the crisis actors are part of.

What are their rates for a lifetime of deception?

Are there auditions? If so, are they cold reads or do you have to prepare a monologue?
 

Bakercat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,154
'merica
I think it more has to do with these people being dumber than dogshit rather than the arguments being so convincing.

I wouldn't say dumb as much as ignorant to what's true and not. Lot of people feel like they don't know who to trust and feel isolated and cling to whatever truth they can find. A lot of times crazies and awful people prey on them to have followers, similar to how people like Jim Jones was able to move hundreds of followers to another community and their eventual death. A lot of times it's more about perspective of truth and less about intelligence.
 

Deleted member 28461

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,830
This was infuriating to watch. Had to pause for a few minutes when the footage of Trump on Infowars came up.

I would love to see YouTube and Facebook crack down on this shit. It won't shut these stupid motherfuckers up, but it will at least make it more difficult for them to spread their lunacy.
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,155
These people deserve to be punched in the face. I dont know how victims have the patience to deal with hearing something so horrible.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
it all comes down to a fundamental selfishness

the world revolves around them, and they identify with their guns, so when a mass shooting happens, which makes guns look bad, their primary concern is not for the tragedy or the victims, it's for themselves

this then goes further, because since the world revolves around them, and these events could potentially make things harder for them, it must have happened JUST to make things harder for them, so it must be an attack on them

and if it's an attack on them it must have been faked and orchestrated by the powers that be specifically to go after them and people like them

and this is how you get from a mass shooting being a tragedy and an attack on children, to it instead being a faked tragedy as an attack to come after gun owners, and this of course justifies "fighting back", which is why you get the harassment
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
I wouldn't say dumb as much as ignorant to what's true and not. Lot of people feel like they don't know who to trust and feel isolated and cling to whatever truth they can find. A lot of times crazies and awful people prey on them to have followers, similar to how people like Jim Jones was able to move hundreds of followers to another community and their eventual death. A lot of times it's more about perspective of truth and less about intelligence.
The people are mentally ill and need to be treated like psychiatric patients and put into facilities. It takes all of 5 seconds of actual logical thinking to look at a situation with victims and those left behind and know what's true or not.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354
Why would "the government" even be doing this when Republicans and their cheeto jesus are the ones controlling the federal government?

Did someone tell these idiots that Obama's no longer president? lmao
 

Neutra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
988
NYC
The people are mentally ill and need to be treated like psychiatric patients and put into facilities. It takes all of 5 seconds of actual logical thinking to look at a situation with victims and those left behind and know what's true or not.

I agree it would be great if the government could involuntarily institutionalize people for believing certain things.
 

Astronut325

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,948
Los Angeles, CA
Wtf... these people need to check into mental institutions ASAP.

I have zero tolerance for shooting truthers, including Ronda Rousey. Lock them away and throw away the key.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
This is so fucking stupid.

Why would someone go through all the trouble of carefully orchestrating a conspiracy only to cheap out and hire people who's identities can be easily traced back to being actors.

How could someone believe that actually happens.

How?

HOW!?
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,036
Moment these people start harassing people it should cross the line into criminal territory and they should be treated as such.
 

Bakercat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,154
'merica
The people are mentally ill and need to be treated like psychiatric patients and put into facilities. It takes all of 5 seconds of actual logical thinking to look at a situation with victims and those left behind and know what's true or not.

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make. Just labeling people as stupid or mentally ill does not fix the problem of why people feel like they believe in these ideas. In your logic a person who steals food is just criminal and be thrown in jail without a second thought. What if the person lost their job and need food through stealing? What if their electricity was shut off and all food in the house has gone bad? What if a teen is kicked off onto the streets and this will be their only meal? There are reasons for why people think, believe, and act the way they do and with understanding of why people think and do these things we can understand, teach, and help fix the problems people face. Maybe you don't believe in these conspiracy theories because it takes you 5 seconds to think it's not true cause of what you know or your situation in life, but for many people they don't have that background of the subject. Some are angry with how the world is, some were dealt a bad hand and are always lied too, kids who have no parental figure to tell what's right from wrong and are seeking out truth. You can't just place a one word label on a person and expect things to be better.

I'm going to leave a link to a great TED talk about a man that once was a Neo Nazi that changed his life around and now helps others who were in similar situations he was in. His story is similar to many who have fallen into problems like racism and conspiracies and how learning and understanding can get them out of it.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ted-talks-daily/id160904630?mt=2&i=1000407694108

Edit: here is a better link to the TED talk.
https://www.ted.com/talks/christian...s_neo_nazi_movement_and_how_i_got_out/up-next
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make. Just labeling people as stupid or mentally ill does not fix the problem of why people feel like they believe in these ideas. In your logic a person who steals food is just criminal and be thrown in jail without a second thought. What if the person lost their job and need food through stealing? What if their electricity was shut off and all food in the house has gone bad? What if a teen is kicked off onto the streets and this will be their only meal? There are reasons for why people think, believe, and act the way they do and with understanding of why people think and do these things we can understand, teach, and help fix the problems people face. Maybe you don't believe in these conspiracy theories because it takes you 5 seconds to think it's not true cause of what you know or your situation in life, but for many people they don't have that background of the subject. Some are angry with how the world is, some were dealt a bad hand and are always lied too, kids who have no parental figure to tell what's right from wrong and are seeking out truth. You can't just place a one word label on a person and expect things to be better.

I'm going to leave a link to a great TED talk about a man that once was a Neo Nazi that changed his life around and now helps others who were in similar situations he was in. His story is similar to many who have fallen into problems like racism and conspiracies and how learning and understanding can get them out of it.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ted-talks-daily/id160904630?mt=2&i=1000407694108
Seems we got some people in this thread subtly caping for these truther people as misunderstood or just simply having beliefs and its starting to piss me off a little.

Watch the video.

Like i said, mentally ill, and need to be treated as such. Through that rehabilitation, that is where the understanding you seem to be talking about will be addressed.

But again, as shown in this video, the people are clearly vile and combined with their mental illness are dangers to society.
 

Big One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
I honestly feel freedom of speech has failed us. Not saying these people should be jailed for saying stupid shit but I do think there needs to be criminal classifications for harassment.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I very recently had a friend tell me that Sandy Hook didn't happen.

It was like being punched in the gut. Even now I grapple with how someone I know, someone I know is educated and has shown good judgement elsewhere in his life, could believe something like that.

One of the most disappointing moments in my life, having someone close to you personally shatter your perception of them. This was face to face, too. I was so taken aback at first I didn't know how to respond. The guy was telling me this not in a confrontational way, but in an earnest, heart to heart way. He was opening up to me that he believed Sandy Hook didn't happen. I actually felt bad to challenge him in such a moment where he was opening up to me. Like, he clearly knew this was a controversial view to hold and that expressing it would make people think down on him, and still chose to tell me.

I told him he was wrong and we changed the subject, but haven't really spoken since. Which is weird, because we used to be really close.
 
This is so fucking stupid.

Why would someone go through all the trouble of carefully orchestrating a conspiracy only to cheap out and hire people who's identities can be easily traced back to being actors.

How could someone believe that actually happens.

How?

HOW!?
Anything to prevent having to actually acknowledge there's a problem with guns in this country.
 

Driggonny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,170
It's fucking stupid how much facebook/twitter/etc. lets these communities get away with before they'll do anything.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,643
The Sandy Hook truthers need to die horrible deaths to prevent corrupting their children.

My brother's ex's brother in law was the medical examiner on the scene there (as well as the one who performed the autopsy on my mother to give you an idea of closeness) and it's stuck with me, the story of him returning home and hugging his children and laying with them in bed.

Fuck these assholes.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
And this is why I can't laugh about stupid people anymore. These are voters, they don't care about facts and no matter what you say they'll have another conspiracy to counter your point. These people do terrible damage and I don't think their number is as small as I used to assume.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354

Like, I know that's their answer to everything when there's no answer, but this conspiracy theory only ever made """sense""" (it never actually made sense) because Obama was president. Their whole reason for voting for President Tangerine was to "get back" control, and now that that's happened they're still pushing this bullshit, like they're simultaneously acknowledging their beloved president hasn't done shit?
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
I'd say a lot of them know what they're saying is bull shit but they have a line to tow. Of course there are some who are all in on the insanity and believe it 100% but I think for most it's a defense mechanism from the reality of the situation.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,120
Limburg
It's fucking stupid how much facebook/twitter/etc. lets these communities get away with before they'll do anything.

Once they start caring/moderating, then they have to keep it up or be seen as liable. For now they can keep whistling and pretending everything is cool until advertisers protest it doesn't change
 

New Fang

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,542
So satisfying to see those two fuck faces get arrested. I see this sort of stupidity as a piece of what got us the president we have today. A lot of people have no critical thinking skills.
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,721
This is so fucking stupid.

Why would someone go through all the trouble of carefully orchestrating a conspiracy only to cheap out and hire people who's identities can be easily traced back to being actors.

How could someone believe that actually happens.

How?

HOW!?
Wasn't there a story where a woman was hired by a right-wing company to lie and push a false story to journalists, but the journalists did their due diligent and caught her.

They believe it and then they do it.
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,872
I very recently had a friend tell me that Sandy Hook didn't happen.

It was like being punched in the gut. Even now I grapple with how someone I know, someone I know is educated and has shown good judgement elsewhere in his life, could believe something like that.

One of the most disappointing moments in my life, having someone close to you personally shatter your perception of them. This was face to face, too. I was so taken aback at first I didn't know how to respond. The guy was telling me this not in a confrontational way, but in an earnest, heart to heart way. He was opening up to me that he believed Sandy Hook didn't happen. I actually felt bad to challenge him in such a moment where he was opening up to me. Like, he clearly knew this was a controversial view to hold and that expressing it would make people think down on him, and still chose to tell me.

I told him he was wrong and we changed the subject, but haven't really spoken since. Which is weird, because we used to be really close.
Sorry to hear that, Krej.

Although you made me laugh because he tried to have a heart to heart and you just went. "WRONG."
loll
 

Zan

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,421
I just can't imagine waking up each day as a parent to complete strangers yelling at you that your son/daughter doesn't exsist.

Scum. Or perhaps even lower than scum.
 
OP
OP
EdibleKnife

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Wasn't there a story where a woman was hired by a right-wing company to lie and push a false story to journalists, but the journalists did their due diligent and caught her.

They believe it and then they do it.
Yep. It was a woman who was sent by Project Veritas to push a false story about Roy Moore to cast doubt on all of Moore's accusers. Conservatives and Alt-Right scum are the ones who own this company and again it's just another example of projection. They're the ones who try desperately to create a false reality for their goals of oppressing and destroying people they deem undesirable and then look at the side with empathy and logic and believe that "they must be puppettering events for their own ends just like us".
 
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More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
I think more than anything it's that they'd rather insult dead children and antagonize survivor victims than to admit that "libruls" may have been right about something.
There's nothing to admit when your views are reinforced through the lens you view the world, through news and articles and sites and so on. Mental schemas are hard to break and it's a lot easier to contextualize stuff as "Conservatives are trying to maintain freedoms and rights" or "anything liberals do is against American values" than it is to consider something from a perspective so alien to their perceived values and way of thinking
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
They want to be crazy and racist assholes but don't want to be called crazy and racist assholes so they invent fairytales to paint themselves as the good guys.

America has a lot of weirdos.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,372
By the way, an actual crisis actor, by all their definitions? Dana Loesch. Paid by political groups to show up at mass shootings and (poorly) fake empathy for victims while spewing scripted, prepared and incredibly disingenuous talking points to push her employer's political agenda and obscure the truth.
Remember, absolutely everything the American right claims is projection, no exception.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
This is so fucking stupid.

Why would someone go through all the trouble of carefully orchestrating a conspiracy only to cheap out and hire people who's identities can be easily traced back to being actors.

How could someone believe that actually happens.

How?

HOW!?

Real talk. Just look at ho wmany people believe EVERYONE in government, media and influential circles is a reptilian shapeshifter from a different planet to enslave us. And the only evidence they have of that are horribly compressed youtube videos.

Once you see how many people believe that shit. Seeing people believe stuff like crisis actors etc is not shocking to me.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,413
oh man, that hoaxer in florida.

"the only time over the past five years that i've felt that i wanted to step away from this investigation is when i realized how much of my life its consumed. for the past five years part of my life has been stolen with the hours and hours that i've invested into this research. and its taken away from my life and my ability to be a good parent to my child"

fuck that guy