The Russo Bros answer lingering Endgame questions in a interview

ErrorJustin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
281
I still don’t think she’s dead. Watch, if Brie Larson gets her way and gets that all-woman Avengers film off the ground, they’ll pull a Life Model Decoy retcon and bring Widow back.
I've been thinking about this.

"Black Widow Prequel Movie" is feeling more and more to me like a master-class MCU swerve. It's pretty odd to kill off a character then AFTERWARD make their prequel/origin story - right at the moment when there's no stakes and people are least likely to care. There's definitely story to mine there (Budapest has been mentioned what - 3x now?) but I'm less sure now this is what Marvel is doing.

What if instead Black Widow opens with Gamora and Widow in the Soul Stone with them figuring out how to escape/break out? 😎

This would also dovetail with GOTG 3 - letting two Gamoras run around the universe for a bit. Or have GOTG Gamora killed off as part of Black Widow, putting a bow on that plot thread.

A prequel is still most likely, of course. People talk about Winter Solder being a "Spy thriller" but it's still at least 70% standard superhero flick. Black Widow might be Marvel's test to see whether a truly smaller-scale, genre piece bottle-story can work within the MCU, and anchoring it around BW still ensures a good amount of hype/popularity.
 

dark494

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,778
Seattle
https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

In the end, Steve Rogers goes on a solo trip to restore the Infinity Stones from the other time dimensions to the moment they were taken, thereby bringing them back into alignment with the main timeline.

He also takes Thor’s Mjölnir hammer, though not necessarily as his own weapon. That has to be taken back to The Dark World era to set the timelines straight, too.

But then …he doesn’t come back. At least, not as we know him. He finds Peggy Carter and stays with her.

So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension?

The directors say it’s the latter.

“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”

The brothers smile.

“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”

There are other questions in this sequence that set up this future story…

Bucky’s Foresight
The Russos confirm — Bucky knew. When Cap was preparing to for the trip, which is only supposed to last a few seconds in the main timeline, his old friend from Brooklyn gives him a surprisingly heavy farewell.

Somehow, he was aware that Cap was going to live in the past, and it’s probably more than just intuition. “Especially when he says goodbye,” Joe explained. “He says, ‘I’ll miss you.’ Clearly he knows something.”

But how? Has Winter Soldier already met with Old Cap at some previous point? It seems the answer is yes.

On the other hand, Joe adds, “Sam doesn’t know something.” Falcon has no idea about Old Cap, which is why The Winter Soldier urges him to go up and talk to the now-elderly Steve Rogers. Bucky already has the answer to the questions Sam is going to ask.

Maybe we’ll get our own answered in the streaming series called Falcon and Winter Soldier which is in the works for the Disney+ service.

“How does it feel?”
That’s what Old Cap asks Falcon after he gives him the vibranium shield.

“Like it’s someone else’s,” Falcon answers.

“It isn’t,” Cap tells him.

Does Rogers mean this as in, “it is yours now,” or is he telling the literal truth? After all, his own shield was shredded by Thanos in the final battle of Endgame.

Let’s spitball the possibilities: Maybe in the timeline where Old Cap has been living the shield he gave Sam actually belonged to that dimension’s Sam Wilson. Based on the chronology, by the time thatSam would have been fighting age, Steve Rogers would already be elderly and probably ready to hand off the mantle.

If so, what became of that Sam, since the shield has now been brought to this timeline?

These are all valid questions, according to the Russos, but we don’t have answers to them yet. All we can tell now is that it seems like the Marvel Studios braintrust have a plan to resolve them down the road.

The Captain’s Wife
Falcon notices the wedding band on Old Cap’s finger and asks if he’ll tell him about her. “No… no, I don’t think I will,” the old man replies.

We know from the final shot of the movie that Cap went back and found Peggy Carter, and we know the Russo brothers say he went to live in a branch timeline, not the prime one.

Still, many fans wonder if this is a misdirect (the Russos are known for that.) Could Steve Rogers have found a way to make the timelines realign? If so, that would allow him to live in the shadows as Peggy’s “secret husband” who has been acknowledged but gone unidentified so far in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

This seems unlikely based on the fact that the Russos said one of the outlying questions is “how is he back in this reality?”

Having him live quietly for decades in the prime reality also creates a lot of paradoxes: Why doesn’t he disrupt Hyrdra’s infiltration of SHIELD sooner? Why doesn’t he warn the Avengers about the coming alien invasion in 2012? Why doesn’t he interfere in all the major tragedies and conflicts that we know about?

Maybe he does do those things, but it would be in the alternate universe. When he politely declines to tell Sam about his wife, it may be a nod to the audience: You don’t get to know any of it either.

Still, maybe we will. Marvel Studios has already broken new ground with interlocked storytelling, so perhaps the next experiment is tiered storytelling — alternate versions of familiar tales.

For instance, the whole “where did Cap go?” question could very well be answered in the animated What If series that Marvel is developing for Disney+, based on something it’s been doing in comics for a while.

The first announced title explores what would happen if Peggy Carter got the super-soldier injection. So … what if that What If world of this show happens to be the one our Steve Rogers from the prime timeline came to inhabit?

Marvel
What if, what if, what if …

At this point, unfortunately, all we can say about What If is “it’s possible” and “who knows?”

Making Old Cap
Another question some moviegoers have about this final scene is — was that really Chris Evans as Old Man Cap, or a lookalike who was actually elderly?

It was all Evans, created through a mix of prosthetics on his face and digital touchups to thin it all down.

“Obviously, if it doesn’t work perfectly, it can undermine the emotional intention of the scene,” says Anthony Russo. “We did a lot of practical effects, so it was a very elaborate makeup job that was then augmented with CG, because there’s certain things that you can’t do with makeup in order to make Cap credibly that age.”

For example, he added: “You can’t shrink Chris Evans’ neck on set, you know what I mean? He’s still got that yoke neck.”

“He’s still a muscular man,” Joe added.

“Yeah, so [CG helps] things that you can’t achieve, like the way the face drops,” Anthony said. “It’s a balance we want to always strike between making him feel credibly aged, but also not compromising the performance.”

Evans even managed to change his voice into a hushed rasp without any audio adjustments.

“We didn’t alter his voice at all,” Joe explained.

“We always say this about Chris — he’s so technically sophisticated as an actor and you can see it in that scene when he plays an old man,” Anthony added.

“Everything you’re seeing is exactly his performance, just with his face aged. That’s it,” Joe said. “We didn’t change anything about it.”

Just like the past, you can’t alter it too much or it becomes unrecognizable.
It doesn't matter, half the people in this thread just can't accept and/or understand any of it.
 

Bengraven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,638
Yes, those people whom was lucky to survive the snap are 5 years older than the people who just got back. The reason Spider Man saw his friend again in high school at the end was simply because his friends was unfortunately also dusted like Spider Man was. Of course, there are people in his grade whom didn't die and they are probably already in colleges by now. To those dusted people, they had no conscious in these past 5 years. They didn't know what happened. It's as if they had just woke up from a long sleep. The only one who was aware about how many years has passed was Doctor Strange, because he has already seen that when he was time mediating on Titan. Parker's reunion with Nat was a touching moment. There are also people whom indeed moved on but suddenly was reunited with their lost ones. Yeah it's kind a complicated world now.
You have no idea how much we fight about this and this is exactly my answer. It seems like people are way overthinking this and I have friends that are literally angry at me right now because they think I’m completely wrong. To them I guess it makes sense that Ned would be like 21 in high school still. Much more than me saying Ned got snapped.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
7,255
Portland, OR
Lol at the justifications to fridging Black Widow. She didn't have a funeral because her purpose was to get killed.
This did strike me as a pretty weird place for her character to go. I’m not much of a fan of ScarJo, but Black Widow was pretty badly treated by the MCU. She’s nothing more than a sassy sexy femme fatale in Winter Soldier, and then in Avengers 2 she gets used as a horrible love interest and then Joss Whedon TM gives her that awful “I’m a monster cuz I can’t have children” arc that was too cringe to actually follow up on directly.

By the time she’s actually written as a real character in End Game it’s too late. It’s like they paired her with Hawkeye because they’re both the odd ducks of the franchise, without any standalone movies or planned out arcs to give them a proper finale. It felt like underneath BW’s staunch insistence that she sacrifice herself was this unspoken “you have a family and I can’t have children anyway” thread that they knew they couldn’t directly reference.

It seems like their fight over who gets to sacrifice themselves would have held a lot of weight if the characters involved didn’t feel like such... afterthoughts in the grand scheme of things.

Speaking of which, did I miss something about the history between Hawkeye and BW? It felt like they were implying a lot that wasn’t actually there.

It seems like it would have made more sense to have Nebula go to Vormir with the plan of sacrificing herself, and having BW realize what’s going on and take her place. Besides, it bothers me how little sense it made that Nebula conveniently forgot to mention that someone would have to die in order to acquire the soul stone.

Thinking back, one thing that bothers me is that something changed between filming and they completely changed the banner-hulk storyline from iw to endgame.Its obvious that the payoff from hulk never coming out in iw is never addressed and honestly hulk coming out because is the only one who is strong enough to wield the gauntlet would be an awesome end to the characters arc and redemption from losing to thanos.
Speaking of which, wouldn’t it have made way more sense to send Banner to vormir with BW?

I mean, if BW is going to be fridged, it may as well be for a reason that makes sense. Then again I don’t think it would go over too well as that being the catalyst for Hulk re-entering the picture so I guess I wish they had just rethought the whole soulstone scenario.
 

rtorres481

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3
I have a thought about not using the Time Stone to bring back Tony. This may make some sense, or no sense at all.

- Tony uses all of the stones to snap away Thanos and his army. The result is a quick deterioration and death caused by the radiation from the stones.
- Say Dr. Strange uses the Time Stone to reverse Tony's snap, and Captain Marvel is successfully able to complete the snap in Tony's place, while still allowing for Thanos and army to be eliminated.
- Meanwhile, Tony is still deteriorating and dies from the original radiation burst. The reason is that the Time Stone can be used to "rewind" time, but it cannot undo the physical deterioration and damage caused by the radiation from using it.
 

#1 defender

Member
Oct 27, 2017
690
Did you watched Dr. Strange? He did plenty of rewinding no jutsu with just the time stone in his solo film.
Well, there was noone left to handle another use of Tony's gauntlet and the Eye of Agamotto was destroyed in Infinity War. Do we know if the time stone can be used without a device that's harnessing its power?

Did you watched Dr. Strange? He did plenty of rewinding no jutsu with just the time stone in his solo film.
I'd have to see it the movie again and pay close attention to that aspect, but was it ever outright stated that you can't return without the pad? It could just as well be there for sheer convenience, so that, for example, the returning user doesn't have to take a short bus ride to the Avengers facility due to missing the exact location.
 
Last edited:

dark494

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,778
Seattle
Well, there was noone left to handle another use of Tony's gauntlet and the Eye of Agamotto was destroyed in Infinity War. Do we know if the time stone can be used without a device that's harnessing its power?
It can't, according to every lore on that stone that exists. It's the most powerful of the stones and cannot be individually harnessed in its raw form.
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,820
Did you watched Dr. Strange? He did plenty of rewinding no jutsu with just the time stone in his solo film.
Actually yea, I guess that's true; so I guess that's not the problem.

Maybe they can't rewind Stark because if they did they'd have to rewind the snap too? And in all the futures Strange saw where they tried that they failed? I guess that could be a fallback explanation.
 
Oct 2, 2018
2,090
Q: Why Ironman has to be the one to do the final snap, couldn't the people like Thor, Starlord or Captain Marvel whom all previously have handled the power of Infinity Stones done it instead?

A: Thor in this movie couldn't do it, only Hulk was strong enough to do the snap without dying. We are still not sure whether Captain Marvel can also withstand all the power of Infinity Stones at once. The reason we choose to let Ironman do it in the end was because he was the closest one to Thanos at the time. In all the futures Doctor Strange foresee, Ironman was the only one who could get close to Thanos and do the snap. People usually think the death of a hero is a horrible tragedy. But we think this is different. When his death was able to bring back hope, to save half of the universe, then his death was powerful and meaningful. We shouldn't feel too sad or anger about it.

you know captain marvel could have flown off with the gauntlet.

Let's be honest here. The reason why Ironman did it was to write Tony out of the franchise.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,336
Actually yea, I guess that's true; so I guess that's not the problem.

Maybe they can't rewind Stark because if they did they'd have to rewind the snap too? And in all the futures Strange saw where they tried that they failed? I guess that could be a fallback explanation.
couldnt you rewind, time freeze thanos, give glove to marvel? the time stone is OP. plenty of rewrites.

also this begs the question: why doesnt strange reverse time in iw when they want to get the glove off?
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,162
"I've created a Time GPS" leaves a lot of potential wiggle-room even within the rules they setup, and just as a nerdy discussion point, it's interesting to consider if there could/should/would be limitations to extended branching alternative timeline jumping just because of all the added craziness it introduces.

It's totally fine to assume Old Cap can just jump back home, they can time travel after all, everything is potentially on the table now, but because it's just not him jumping back to the 40's or 50's, it raises the potential for the rules to being different and worth discussing.

I've had similar discussions about BttF and pretty much every other time travel movie except Die Hard.
I guess I just don’t understand what you think is different about old Cap jumping back to his wife’s timeline vs young Cap jumping back return the stones. It’s all based on the same rule set established at the outset.
 

#1 defender

Member
Oct 27, 2017
690
It can't, according to every lore on that stone that exists. It's the most powerful of the stones and cannot be individually harnessed in its raw form.
Just as i thought. Thanks!

It's implied that she married the guy from Agent Carter in the MCU Prime Timeline.

Daniel Sousa

Love me some Enver Gjokaj. The two must have had a grandson who looks just like him, became a police officer and was on duty in NY in 2012, during a certain alien invasion.
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
960
Glad they clarified the stuff about time travel creating an alternate universe and old cap having to travel back. That was my guess as to what happened based on the explanation earlier in the movie but it's nice to have it spelled out.

Now will we get a film one of these days about Cap and Carter kicking ass in the '50s?
 

StarCreator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
Because you're being unreasonable in discarding the fact that all the hopping they did anyway throughout the movie between timelines using just the GPS watches they had is somehow an imaginary exception in your book that they couldn't do the same to go back to present they started from.
It just seems an odd choice for the beacon to exist in the first place if the suits themselves are capable of initiating time jumps and returning unassisted. If it's not necessary, then why did they even bother making it?
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,410
Man, I don’t care. Why did Tony have to die! That shit hurt, that the closest I’ve come to crying in damn near a decade.
 

dark494

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,778
Seattle
It just seems an odd choice for the beacon to exist in the first place if the suits themselves are capable of initiating time jumps and returning unassisted. If it's not necessary, then why did they even bother making it?
Because the only person who was smart enough to know how to program the GPS device's coordinates to make hops around to other places is Tony, up until he instructs Steve how to do it when they have to make a second jump back to 1970. Everyone else needs a simpler solution, a return button that syncs to the platform, acting as an anchor, so they can easily return there without having to program in complex time & space coordinates.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,273
Tampa, Fl
Does that mean whenever you jump with the GPS, you always jump to the MCU dimension timeline for the specific time you specify? Or are they jumping to parallel reality timelines?
The GPS is supposed to be an anchor so that you move through time and not as Tony said "Time moves through you." While the Scott age jump scene was specifically referenced there it did make me think of it like a foot left into the door of your own reality so you can just come back there and not hop arround alternate realities all day.
 

Pachimari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,426
All they're showing is that they use the gps coordinates going back in time. But travelling forward in time (to 2023) they land on the pads. I think the Forbes theory makes good sense. That Cap could have travelled forward to the day after he left. So he appeared on the pad, and then he coordinates to travel back in time one day and land on the bench.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,273
Tampa, Fl
It's also how cap would've gone between the different branches to return each Stone, right? The platform was just meant to help him with the initial jump, from what I understood. After that, it was basically his own journey based on how he wanted to use the bracelet/GPS.
With what I thought after seeing it a second time and what the Russo Bros said I think yes.
 

The_hypocrite

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,707
Flyover State
Because you're being unreasonable in discarding the fact that all the hopping they did anyway throughout the movie between timelines using just the GPS watches they had is somehow an imaginary exception in your book that they couldn't do the same to go back to present they started from.
It's unreasonable to ask for consistency? From the rat activating the portal, to all other cases, returning to your timeline was done through the beacon/portal. I didn't set the rules, Cap instance at the end is inconsistent with all the priors examples in the movie. That's not unreasonable, that's a fact.
 

dark494

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,778
Seattle
All they're showing is that they use the gps coordinates going back in time. But travelling forward in time (to 2023) they land on the pads. I think the Forbes theory makes good sense. That Cap could have travelled forward to the day after he left. So he appeared on the pad, and then he coordinates to travel back in time one day and land on the bench.
The quantum realm doesn't care for forwards or backwards. The GPS devices were, and I quote, "To choose where in time you exit the quantum realm." They showed this by moving time through Scott forwards AND backwards. Stop trying to put arbitrary limitations on what they can or can't do, they never stated they could only move backwards and visually showed they could do both.
 

dark494

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,778
Seattle
It's unreasonable to ask for consistency? From the rat activating the portal, to all other cases, returning to your timeline was done through the beacon/portal. I didn't set the rules, Cap instance at the end is inconsistent with all the priors examples in the movie. That's not unreasonable, that's a fact.
It is unreasonable because you're blatantly cherry-picking scenes and discarding others to suit your narrative. They showed they could move time forwards and backwards. They stated the purpose of the GPS devices was to "Choose where in time you exist the quantum realm." There is nothing anywhere that states they can only move backwards and that's it. They used the GPS device to manually program coordinates to hop around wherever they please. Stop trying to place arbitrary restrictions on this that don't exist.
 

The_hypocrite

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,707
Flyover State
Because the only person who was smart enough to know how to program the GPS device's coordinates to make hops around to other places is Tony, up until he instructs Steve how to do it when they have to make a second jump back to 1970. Everyone else needs a simpler solution, a return button that syncs to the platform, acting as an anchor, so they can easily return there without having to program in complex time & space coordinates.
The GPS was for dates, not locations, they had to travel to those specific places themselves. Actually, this was kind of messy but besides New York they kind had to go some places.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

In the end, Steve Rogers goes on a solo trip to restore the Infinity Stones from the other time dimensions to the moment they were taken, thereby bringing them back into alignment with the main timeline.

He also takes Thor’s Mjölnir hammer, though not necessarily as his own weapon. That has to be taken back to The Dark World era to set the timelines straight, too.

But then …he doesn’t come back. At least, not as we know him. He finds Peggy Carter and stays with her.

So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension?

The directors say it’s the latter.

“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”

The brothers smile.

“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”

There are other questions in this sequence that set up this future story…

Bucky’s Foresight
The Russos confirm — Bucky knew. When Cap was preparing to for the trip, which is only supposed to last a few seconds in the main timeline, his old friend from Brooklyn gives him a surprisingly heavy farewell.

Somehow, he was aware that Cap was going to live in the past, and it’s probably more than just intuition. “Especially when he says goodbye,” Joe explained. “He says, ‘I’ll miss you.’ Clearly he knows something.”

But how? Has Winter Soldier already met with Old Cap at some previous point? It seems the answer is yes.

On the other hand, Joe adds, “Sam doesn’t know something.” Falcon has no idea about Old Cap, which is why The Winter Soldier urges him to go up and talk to the now-elderly Steve Rogers. Bucky already has the answer to the questions Sam is going to ask.

Maybe we’ll get our own answered in the streaming series called Falcon and Winter Soldier which is in the works for the Disney+ service.

“How does it feel?”
That’s what Old Cap asks Falcon after he gives him the vibranium shield.

“Like it’s someone else’s,” Falcon answers.

“It isn’t,” Cap tells him.

Does Rogers mean this as in, “it is yours now,” or is he telling the literal truth? After all, his own shield was shredded by Thanos in the final battle of Endgame.

Let’s spitball the possibilities: Maybe in the timeline where Old Cap has been living the shield he gave Sam actually belonged to that dimension’s Sam Wilson. Based on the chronology, by the time thatSam would have been fighting age, Steve Rogers would already be elderly and probably ready to hand off the mantle.

If so, what became of that Sam, since the shield has now been brought to this timeline?

These are all valid questions, according to the Russos, but we don’t have answers to them yet. All we can tell now is that it seems like the Marvel Studios braintrust have a plan to resolve them down the road.

The Captain’s Wife
Falcon notices the wedding band on Old Cap’s finger and asks if he’ll tell him about her. “No… no, I don’t think I will,” the old man replies.

We know from the final shot of the movie that Cap went back and found Peggy Carter, and we know the Russo brothers say he went to live in a branch timeline, not the prime one.

Still, many fans wonder if this is a misdirect (the Russos are known for that.) Could Steve Rogers have found a way to make the timelines realign? If so, that would allow him to live in the shadows as Peggy’s “secret husband” who has been acknowledged but gone unidentified so far in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

This seems unlikely based on the fact that the Russos said one of the outlying questions is “how is he back in this reality?”

Having him live quietly for decades in the prime reality also creates a lot of paradoxes: Why doesn’t he disrupt Hyrdra’s infiltration of SHIELD sooner? Why doesn’t he warn the Avengers about the coming alien invasion in 2012? Why doesn’t he interfere in all the major tragedies and conflicts that we know about?

Maybe he does do those things, but it would be in the alternate universe. When he politely declines to tell Sam about his wife, it may be a nod to the audience: You don’t get to know any of it either.

Still, maybe we will. Marvel Studios has already broken new ground with interlocked storytelling, so perhaps the next experiment is tiered storytelling — alternate versions of familiar tales.


For instance, the whole “where did Cap go?” question could very well be answered in the animated What If series that Marvel is developing for Disney+, based on something it’s been doing in comics for a while.

The first announced title explores what would happen if Peggy Carter got the super-soldier injection. So … what if that What If world of this show happens to be the one our Steve Rogers from the prime timeline came to inhabit?

Marvel
What if, what if, what if …

At this point, unfortunately, all we can say about What If is “it’s possible” and “who knows?”

Making Old Cap
Another question some moviegoers have about this final scene is — was that really Chris Evans as Old Man Cap, or a lookalike who was actually elderly?

It was all Evans, created through a mix of prosthetics on his face and digital touchups to thin it all down.

“Obviously, if it doesn’t work perfectly, it can undermine the emotional intention of the scene,” says Anthony Russo. “We did a lot of practical effects, so it was a very elaborate makeup job that was then augmented with CG, because there’s certain things that you can’t do with makeup in order to make Cap credibly that age.”

For example, he added: “You can’t shrink Chris Evans’ neck on set, you know what I mean? He’s still got that yoke neck.”

“He’s still a muscular man,” Joe added.

“Yeah, so [CG helps] things that you can’t achieve, like the way the face drops,” Anthony said. “It’s a balance we want to always strike between making him feel credibly aged, but also not compromising the performance.”

Evans even managed to change his voice into a hushed rasp without any audio adjustments.

“We didn’t alter his voice at all,” Joe explained.

“We always say this about Chris — he’s so technically sophisticated as an actor and you can see it in that scene when he plays an old man,” Anthony added.

“Everything you’re seeing is exactly his performance, just with his face aged. That’s it,” Joe said. “We didn’t change anything about it.”

Just like the past, you can’t alter it too much or it becomes unrecognizable.
This should be the main interview on the OP, mate. The translation of the Chinese one is sort of weirds and feels like it has things lost in translation.
 

The_hypocrite

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,707
Flyover State
It is unreasonable because you're blatantly cherry-picking scenes and discarding others to suit your narrative. They showed they could move time forwards and backwards. They stated the purpose of the GPS devices was to "Choose where in time you exist the quantum realm." There is nothing anywhere that states they can only move backwards and that's it. They used the GPS device to manually program coordinates to hop around wherever they please. Stop trying to place arbitrary restrictions on this that don't exist.
The only thing unreasonable is your use of the word, there's nothing unreasonable in my post, I've given reasons to support my observation, you just demonize me cause I'm nitpicking on a nitpicking thread.
 

dark494

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,778
Seattle
The GPS was for dates, not locations, they had to travel to those specific places themselves. Actually, this was kind of messy but besides New York they kind had to go some places.
Again, you're cherry picking. Every jump was to a different time AND location. The only instance your remembering is the one hop 4 of them did to Morag to get the power stone, where 2 of them had to fly to Vormir to get the soul stone since they didn't have any pym particles left for a spare jump.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,757
I have a thought about not using the Time Stone to bring back Tony. This may make some sense, or no sense at all.

- Tony uses all of the stones to snap away Thanos and his army. The result is a quick deterioration and death caused by the radiation from the stones.
- Say Dr. Strange uses the Time Stone to reverse Tony's snap, and Captain Marvel is successfully able to complete the snap in Tony's place, while still allowing for Thanos and army to be eliminated.
- Meanwhile, Tony is still deteriorating and dies from the original radiation burst. The reason is that the Time Stone can be used to "rewind" time, but it cannot undo the physical deterioration and damage caused by the radiation from using it.
I don't think Captain Marvel should be able to use the stones that easily given that she's empowered by one. Operating at the same frequency and all that.
 

RavFiveFour

Member
Dec 3, 2018
973
Thanos and the stones saved this franchise and probably would have elevated it further if he's there day 1. Finally we have some answers to these questions.
 

StarCreator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
It is unreasonable because you're blatantly cherry-picking scenes and discarding others to suit your narrative. They showed they could move time forwards and backwards. They stated the purpose of the GPS devices was to "Choose where in time you exist the quantum realm." There is nothing anywhere that states they can only move backwards and that's it. They used the GPS device to manually program coordinates to hop around wherever they please. Stop trying to place arbitrary restrictions on this that don't exist.
While at the same time you're discarding the real question of how they can suddenly enter the quantum realm at will without the aid of the beacon, when literally every other depiction of it shows they need a gateway to enter and exit safely. This goes both ways.
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,820
couldnt you rewind, time freeze thanos, give glove to marvel? the time stone is OP. plenty of rewrites.

also this begs the question: why doesnt strange reverse time in iw when they want to get the glove off?
14 million futures, only one works.

I think that's just the catch all explanation for anything else you can come up with. Maybe if he'd had more time to meditate he could have gone through a few hundred million futures and found a better one where fewer people died. but this is the only one he could be sure of.
 

rtorres481

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3
I don't think Captain Marvel should be able to use the stones that easily given that she's empowered by one. Operating at the same frequency and all that.
I just threw her name out there for the purpose of speculation. But my emphasis was on the effects that Tony's snap had on him. I'm considering that those effects could not be reversed. Once he snapped, the countdown to his death began. Any rewinding could not undo the damage already done to him.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
I don't think Captain Marvel should be able to use the stones that easily given that she's empowered by one. Operating at the same frequency and all that.
When I was discussing how mutants would be introduced during the weekend after the Saturday rounds, I said that they'd use the power surge from the use of the stones to make our own evolution as a species make a leap to adapt to the new situations. I used Wanda and Pietro as proof that the infinity stones energy could awake the dormant still unknown gene X, but then you said this and it hit me: maybe Captain Marvel IS a mutant in the MCU after all.

It'd work flawlessly with the inevitable confront she will have with Rogue eventually. Holy shit the MCU writers are good.
 

dark494

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,778
Seattle
what a weird take. time travel is insanely complicated to map out which is why people generally groan at the idea in a story and that it is rarely ever done with a lot of consistency.
It's only complicated when people start inventing their own exceptions and rules to how they think it should work in their headcannon instead of how it's used and presented in the context of the movie.

There are still people trying to apply BttF rules to this movie and throwing their arms up going "Doesn't make sense" or "Russo's wrong about how time works." We're past the point of this being completely asinine.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
7,255
Portland, OR
what a weird take. time travel is insanely complicated to map out which is why people generally groan at the idea in a story and that it is rarely ever done with a lot of consistency.
But Endgame is explicit that there is no causality with time travel here, which does make it actually very simple.

Endgame’s script even goes so far as to directly state that the rules about time loops and causality that popular culture has ingrained into our minds don’t apply here, and people still have tons of questions about causality.
 

timrtabor123

Member
Feb 11, 2019
268
I still really don't get the Cap timeline part. Really seems to be like a nice ending they wanted to give him without caring about how it affected their established time travel philosophy.

Like, if he went back and lived a whole life up until the pt he was on that bench, then everything he brought back with him is also in that same timeline. How is that 'alternate'? Unless he, once he was finally old, decided to travel back to the alternate universe, in which case theres a lot more gaps that need to be filled in about how he can now hop dimensions, not just timelines. It's all really just hand waved away for the purpose of a cute ending.
The dude is friends with multiple super scientists and wizards. He could totally mguyver his way back.
 

twinturbo2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
741
Jupiter, FL
I've been thinking about this.

"Black Widow Prequel Movie" is feeling more and more to me like a master-class MCU swerve. It's pretty odd to kill off a character then AFTERWARD make their prequel/origin story - right at the moment when there's no stakes and people are least likely to care. There's definitely story to mine there (Budapest has been mentioned what - 3x now?) but I'm less sure now this is what Marvel is doing.

What if instead Black Widow opens with Gamora and Widow in the Soul Stone with them figuring out how to escape/break out? 😎

This would also dovetail with GOTG 3 - letting two Gamoras run around the universe for a bit. Or have GOTG Gamora killed off as part of Black Widow, putting a bow on that plot thread.

A prequel is still most likely, of course. People talk about Winter Solder being a "Spy thriller" but it's still at least 70% standard superhero flick. Black Widow might be Marvel's test to see whether a truly smaller-scale, genre piece bottle-story can work within the MCU, and anchoring it around BW still ensures a good amount of hype/popularity.
The film starts production in a couple of months from what I hear, guess we’ll have our answer soon.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,211
Sydney, Australia
I guess this clarifies the ending scene a bit. The more I think about it the more I realize I just shouldn't.
I mean...it clarifies it pretty damn well? Him choosing to remain with Peggy in the alternate timeline probably made it difficult for him to return at the exact moment he was originally supposed to. It's not hard to assume that he returned off-screen moments before, or even through the larger portal inside the Avengers base when he knew it would be vacated.

I still really don't get the Cap timeline part. Really seems to be like a nice ending they wanted to give him without caring about how it affected their established time travel philosophy.

Like, if he went back and lived a whole life up until the pt he was on that bench, then everything he brought back with him is also in that same timeline. How is that 'alternate'? Unless he, once he was finally old, decided to travel back to the alternate universe, in which case theres a lot more gaps that need to be filled in about how he can now hop dimensions, not just timelines. It's all really just hand waved away for the purpose of a cute ending.
Stark invented 'time gps' in the movie. That's what he referred to those wrist/hand devices as.

We saw Cap and Tony earlier in the movie manage to time travel from 2010 to 1970 and then still return to their original timeline. These devices must have allowed Old Cap to return to his original timeline as well, regardless of how much he had changed in the universe he had been living in.

Like of course this is all scientific mumbo jumbo, but if you accept that Tony invented time travel, is it really that much of a leap to also accept that he invented the device that lets them return to their own timeline?
 
Last edited:

WordAssassin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
but arent the prime line stones gone?
As others pointed out it's the taking them from other timelines that causes a problem, but also, matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Thanos specifically says he atomized them, which means they still exist, but they are functionally worthless to anyone other than reality itself. Taking it from another reality means it is straight up 100% gone gone, and that's the bad shit.