The Sakamoto Metroid trilogy is the best 2D trilogy in gaming

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
12,180
I don't think Super does narrative as well, no. The different biomes feel much gamier and arbitrarily thrown together compared to M2's. It's limitations work to its advantage in spades. I do like the Wrecked Ship area in Super a lot though.

Besides that, I'm not sure what's the overarching issue you're alluding to.
The ooverarching issue of calling Metroid II the best 2d game.

Also that's world cohesiveness, not narrative. A well defined world does not beget a stronger narrative, nor vice versa. How you build the world, does not inherently impact how you tell the story. Your world could be rock solid and perfectly realized, but the narrative of the story in said world could still fail it. Likewise, a world can be ill defined and still have an absolutely solid narrative built within the confines of a realm that you can't properly explain how it works.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
12,180
Mother 1 is one of the most boring jrpg I've ever put hands on. The novelty of that world wears off fast. It's Blue Dragon levels of uninteresting.
 

NeoZeedeater

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,710
If we're just making loose rules to tie 2d games as a trilogy, I would pick the Genesis Shinobi Trilogy.

Revenge of Shinobi



Shadow Dancer: The Secret of Shinobi



Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master




I think Fusion brings down those three Metroid games somewhat (although I still like it). Super is fantastic and Zero Mission is also great.
 

PKrockin

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,917
As I said earlier, the Mother trilogy isn't a real trilogy as there are essentially 2 games. (And let's be honest Mother 1 is crap)

The Witcher is 3D and we are not discussing that
If EBZ and EarthBound count as one game so do LttP and OoT.

Not that I'm saying EBZ is a masterpiece or anything, but they ain't the same game.
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
162
I always thought sakamoto is one of the greatest directors videogames have. I think he just can't write properly(as other m shows) but in terms of pacing of a game and athmosphere building the guy is a genius imo.
 

Klappdrachen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
720
Fusion and Super are masterpieces, but I'm not sure about Zero Mission. It's a great game no doubt, but it also killed a lot of what made the original Metroid so special. And the less said about the Zero Suit the better.
 

Jobbs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,227
I'm not a fan of zero mission (for a variety of reasons) but over time I've come to consider Metroid Fusion one of the great 2D action sidescrollers of our time and tied with Super for the best Metroid game. The encounter design, art direction, and level layout is outstanding
 

OmegaX

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
I have retroactively disliked Fusion because it planted the seeds for the disgrace that was Other M. The whole backstory with the Adam AI always seemed unnecessary and badly written but Other M took it to a whole other level of crappyness.
I have to admit that it the fight against the Omega Metroid was awesome and caught me off guard at the time.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
510
The ooverarching issue of calling Metroid II the best 2d game.

Also that's world cohesiveness, not narrative. A well defined world does not beget a stronger narrative, nor vice versa. How you build the world, does not inherently impact how you tell the story. Your world could be rock solid and perfectly realized, but the narrative of the story in said world could still fail it. Likewise, a world can be ill defined and still have an absolutely solid narrative built within the confines of a realm that you can't properly explain how it works.
World cohesiveness is a part of the narrative. Video games, as an audio-visual medium, convey their narrative through different means of information. You can't clearly separate all these elements, they inform each other and, because of it, have to be interpreted holistically. When people don't do that, they end up complaining abou the lava elevator in Dark Souls II, a perfect example of what you mention in that last sentence.

If you approach it through that lens, Metroid II is an incredibly forward-thinking game, especially when taking into account your average Game Boy game looked like this:


About the bolded: that's not an issue, just a person's opinion.
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,567
Columbus, OH
If we're just making loose rules to tie 2d games as a trilogy, I would pick the Genesis Shinobi Trilogy.

Revenge of Shinobi



Shadow Dancer: The Secret of Shinobi



Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master




I think Fusion brings down those three Metroid games somewhat (although I still like it). Super is fantastic and Zero Mission is also great.
hell yeah, these are some fuckin' video games. also, the SOR trilogy?

I love Super Metroid but Fusion and Zero Mission aren't close to it imho.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
12,180
World cohesiveness is a part of the narrative. Video games, as an audio-visual medium, convey their narrative through different means of information. You can't clearly separate all these elements, they inform each other and, because of it, have to be interpreted holistically. When people don't do that, they end up complaining abou the lava elevator in Dark Souls II, a perfect example of what you mention in that last sentence.

If you approach it through that lens, Metroid II is an incredibly forward-thinking game, especially when taking into account your average Game Boy game looked like this:


About the bolded: that's not an issue, just a person's opinion.
Agree to disagree. I don't think anything in Super Metroid, utterly breaks the world to the point where the narrative suffers from it.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
12,180
I have retroactively disliked Fusion because it planted the seeds for the disgrace that was Other M. The whole backstory with the Adam AI always seemed unnecessary and badly written but Other M took it to a whole other level of crappyness.
I have to admit that it the fight against the Omega Metroid was awesome and caught me off guard at the time.
This is a weird ass stance for a game. Disliking it not on its merits, but the merits of a completely separate game. And not even a completely separate game that does the same thing, but better.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
510
Agree to disagree. I don't think anything in Super Metroid, utterly breaks the world to the point where the narrative suffers from it.
The thing is, neither do I, Super just has other priorities in mind as far as level design goes compared to M2. I think someone in the thread mentioned Mark Brown's video on the M2 remakes, that's a good watch if you want to see where people are coming from with this opinion.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
12,180
The thing is, neither do I, Super just has other priorities in mind as far as level design goes compared to M2. I think someone in the thread mentioned Mark Brown's video on the M2 remakes, that's a good watch if you want to see where people are coming from with this opinion.
I've seen his video. I don't agree with it, but i understand it. i just don't take that hard a stance and feel like it ultimately is a disservice to the series. i understand why people agree with him, but I don't cause I feel it restricts what metroid can be. And not in the Resetera, fucking god knows what gimmicky manner that some thread comes up with every couple months.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
510
I've seen his video. I don't agree with it, but i understand it. i just don't take that hard a stance and feel like it ultimately is a disservice to the series. i understand why people agree with him, but I don't cause I feel it restricts what metroid can be. And not in the Resetera, fucking god knows what gimmicky manner that some thread comes up with every couple months.
I see. That's fair, I understand.
 

Narpas Sword0

Member
Oct 28, 2017
599
I think the fact that it locks you up to each area until you complete it kinda sucks the joy out of the game.
Exploration is the main reason why I play a metroidvania in the first place.



Good to see a different opinion then. Thanks. I will.
Has the definition of “metroidvania” been strained so far that we are now using it to describe straight up Metroid games
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,713
This is a weird ass stance for a game. Disliking it not on its merits, but the merits of a completely separate game. And not even a completely separate game that does the same thing, but better.
Aside from the fact that Other M is a game using much newer tech than Fusion, there is nothing that Other M does better than Fusion.
Level design, controls, narrative, music, audio-visual feedback, whathave you.
Other M already doesn't do much good but Fusion is the best game to have ever graced a system in comparison to OtherM, it's not even close.
Has the definition of “metroidvania” been strained so far that we are now using it to describe straight up Metroid games
That's actually a funny comment.
We use the term to describe castlevania games, no reason to not use it to describle Metroid games as well.
Heck we should call them Adventure games or maze games anyway.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
12,180
Aside from the fact that Other M is a game using much newer tech than Fusion, there is nothing that Other M does better than Fusion.
Level design, controls, narrative, music, audio-visual feedback, whathave you.
Other M already doesn't do much good but Fusion is the best game to have ever graced a system in comparison to OtherM, it's not even close.
You might need to reread my post, cause that is definitely not what i am saying.
 

Narpas Sword0

Member
Oct 28, 2017
599
That's actually a funny comment.
We use the term to describe castlevania games, no reason to not use it to describle Metroid games as well.
Heck we should call them Adventure games or maze games anyway.
It was coined to differentiate castlevania games that ripped off Metroid from castlevania games that were stage based. It got expanded to describe other games that were ripping off Metroid, for some reason. Now Metroid doesn’t even get to be Metroid I guess.

PAC-Man is a maze game
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,713
You might need to reread my post, cause that is definitely not what i am saying.
Woah I totally misread your post.
Sorry about that.
It was coined to differentiate castlevania games that ripped off Metroid from castlevania games that were stage based. It got expanded to describe other games that were ripping off Metroid, for some reason. Now Metroid doesn’t even get to be Metroid I guess.
I know but that doesn't mean the Metroid qualities of the series that coined the term aren't present in these games.
For my money I'd say that if the game's priorities are on exploring a world with seemingly nonlinear level design it doesn't hurt to call them Metroidvania.
I kinda disagree on Metroid not being allowed to be Metroid anymore.
Metroid Samus Returns for all the shit I can lobby at it is closer to what we think of Metroid than the original Metroid II and it looks like Prime 4 will be rather close to the Prime games as well.
We're closer to having Metroid games being Metroid games than we ever were in more than a decade.
PAC-Man is a maze game
If the point of the game is to navigate a maze I'd say it's maze game.
Hollow knight for example is all about effectively navigating a tortuous maze environment.
It doesn't just do that but for me it's the point of the game.
Another more straightforward example would be Metroid 1 on the NES.
I guess action maze would be a better moniker.
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,545
It's video games, buddy. Chill.
Many folks count the first 3 MGS games as a trilogy even though there are 5 of them
Those many people are also wrong.

The above aside, I love all three of these games. Also really enjoyed Samus Returns on n3DS except the last battle was tough due to the n3DS feeling uncomfortable in such a boss fight!
 

'3y Kingdom

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,325
As I said earlier, the Mother trilogy isn't a real trilogy as there are essentially 2 games.

The Witcher is 3D and we are not discussing that
I think it's a bit strange to rag on Earthbound's borrowings from MOTHER while trying to make a case for two games as similar as Super Metroid and Zero Mission. Lumping together Metroids 3, 4, and 1R into a "trilogy" is also an interesting choice (Super is a direct sequel to II, after all).

I feel that much more straightforward arguments could be made for the following actually sequential titles:

MOTHER 1-3 (yes, MOTHER 1 is a great game)
SMB 1-3 (for a Western audience, anyway)
Zelda 1-3
Wario Land 1-3 (or 2-4, in my book)
Fire Emblem 3-5, 6-8

And that's just Nintendo 2D series. Outside of Nintendo there are lots of sequential titles that could be argued for.
 
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Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,641
Its only bested in it’s own series - the Prime Trilogy.

Both of those trifectas are essential Metroid and all masterpieces.

Samus Returns is an amazing remake but is held back by Metroid 2 itself
 

toad02

Member
Oct 10, 2018
153
Return of Samus still holds hand but even to a lesser extent than Zero Mission. I feel like you’d enjoy that more than Fusion or Zero Mission, but if you’re craving something that feels as open-ended as Super Metroid than AM2R may be more down your alley. Both games take a different approach to reimagining Metroid 2, not to say one is objectively better than the other.
Got it! Thanks!

Has the definition of “metroidvania” been strained so far that we are now using it to describe straight up Metroid games
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
OP
OP
Concelhaut

Concelhaut

Member
Jun 10, 2019
288
I feel that much more straightforward arguments could be made for the following actually sequential titles:

MOTHER 1-3 (yes, MOTHER 1 is a great game)
SMB 1-3 (for a Western audience, anyway)
Zelda 1-3
Wario Land 1-3 (or 2-4, in my book)
Fire Emblem 3-5, 6-8
These are all great, but I feel that Metroid is still superior