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The script for Joker has allegedly leaked, and it's not great

Apr 9, 2019
552
CLT
He did that to fuck with Batman. Not because he was trying to get his dick wet. There’s a huge difference. One makes him look like a heartless villain while the other makes him look like a petulant child.
This.

This is all not even mentioning the fact that the Joker is a flawed and dated depiction of mental illness anyway. You can write good mentally ill antagonists but the Joker is a caricature that with each new film adaptation bares its problems more and more. Not that you can't love the character and his arcs for what they are, particularly in the Dark Knight and in the comics- I sure do.

This just piles on to that is what I'm saying. I would argue that the Joker has been depicted as sympathetic before-- such as his probably false backstory in the Killing Joke-- but this is exactly the wrong thing to make him sympathetic if that is indeed what we're going for.

I've started to wonder if DC will begin catering to the crowd that Marvel has angered with all of its recent concentration on diversity (vapid as it may be).
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,060
But you are so willing to put your faith in WB?

Suicide Squad WB? Crimes of Grindelwald WB?
I don't really like being negative on things beforehand. I tend to give things the benefit of the doubt. I don't know how much they had a hand in Grindelwald, but if Joker has issues it seems like a different situation than Suicide Squad.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,646
For folks who don't want to be on 4chan

>1980s Gotham
>Thomas Wayne is up for re-election as mayor
>Arthur Fleck is an advertising clown, and part-time stand-up comedian
>lives with his severely mentally ill mother
>has a crush on his next-door neighbor
>constantly beaten and picked on while working as a clown
>stand up comedy isn’t much better, constantly heckled and booed away
>begins to develop relationship with neighbor after she sees him beaten up
>Arthur hears his comedian idol is going to be at the bar he performs at
>Arthur dresses fully as a clown, hoping it will improve his performance
>set bombs, and his comedy idol roasts him about it afterwards
>Arthur hides his tears by laughing on Gotham subway
>3 wall street boys try to beat the shit out of Arthur and pick on him
>Arthur retaliates against one of them, accidentally breaking his neck
>Arthur runs from the other two
>his psyche slowly starts to break down
>Arthur arrives home to see the Gotham PD have taken his mother away to Arkham after she was found acting hysterically in the apartment complex corridors
>Arthur tries to confide in his neighbor
>he mistakes her compassion for flirting and she rejects him
>his psyche breaks more and more
>we see a few days pass by as Arthur visits his mother in Arkham
>her happy-go-lucky demeanor has faded and she seems extremely depressed
>one night, Arthur receives a call from Arkham
>his mother is dead from a successful suicide attempt
>Arthur completely cracks, deciding to pull off the “Ulitmate Joke”
>Arthur tries to storm into a charity event held by Wayne for his mayoral campaign
>he’s quickly ejected but makes a scene in front of the press that the Waynes don’t care for the working class of Gotham
>passionate speech doesn’t get much love from the press and media but inspires the lower class peoples of Gotham
>Arthur takes his public protesting to the next level, vandalising Wayne’s campaign advertising whilst dressed as his new persona, “The Clown”
>manages to evade arrest in thanks to his followers who cause random acts of violence to distract the police across Gotham
>crime escalates in Gotham to full on riots citywide
>Arthur gets noticed by his idol and is offered a spot to tell the country his side of the story
>his idol assures him the police will not arrest him on set because he technically hasn’t carried out any of the violence against the police
>appears on his show, seemingly indifferent to meeting his idol again
>whilst spouting a load of shit about his philosophies, Arthur seems to threaten Thomas Wayne, promising before voting day, he will be dead
>Arthur’s idol lies about the police and they quickly storm the show to arrest Arthur
>Arthur escapes the building, but not before slashing his former idol’s neck, leaving him to die live on air
>after being chased for some time, Arthur is finally knocked down by a GCPD car and taken to Arkham after being deemed mentally unstable
>Thomas Wayne visits Arthur and brags that his attempt to murder him has failed
>Arthur reveals his Ultimate Joke was not to expose Thomas for his vast wealth and ignorance of the poor, but to show how easily people can be manipulated
>Arthur tells Thomas before he leaves that he never had to kill him, because he’s inspired a whole city that they can do it themselves
>Thomas makes a passing mention before leaving that it seems like a “bad joke”
>Arthur tells him before he goes “Just wait for the punchline”
>cut to a few weeks later
>Bruce Wayne attending his family’s funeral
>notices Arthur in the distance and goes over to him
>Arthur is out of makeup and costume and tries to cheer Bruce up by doing a simple clown routine
>Bruce briefly mentions he doesn’t like clowns
>Arthur tries to force a smile on Bruce’s face before Alfred quickly drags Bruce away and threatens Arthur
Alfred suddenly realises who Arthur is and questions how he is out of Arkham
>Alfred tries to alert the nearby police but turns and sees Arthur is already gone
>we briefly see how Arthur got out
>whilst being treated by a nurse, Arthur hears the nurse whistle Dick Van Dyke’s ‘Put on a Happy Face’ (a song Arthur uses as an anthem for his followers)
>Arthur is given a nurse’s outfit and leaves the building with his followers
>back in the present, Arthur is back in his old apartment, dressing back into his Clown persona
>it’s revealed there were new tenants in Arthur’s apartment but he has killed them
>Arthur bring a bunch of flowers to his neighbor’s door and leaves them
>she sees the flowers left behind, but as she goes to read the note left with them, she’s sprayed by what appears to be some kind of toxin
>Arthur gets in the elevator and hears her slowly choke to death
>Arthur gets into a car with some of his followers wearing clown masks
>after a short drive through Gotham, Arthur makes them stop at a set of stairs we saw at the start of the movie
>Arthur leaves his goons in the car
>he performs one last song and dance as the credits play over the routine (Put on a Happy Face)
>no post-credit scene
>no reference to other villains other than Falcone
>Jim Gordon isn’t a commissioner but is the head detective on Arthur’s case
>120 minute runtime
>most of the movie isn't plot-related, just scenes of Arthur dreaming of a better life as a successful comedian
>a few lines are taken directly from Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns and the Joker graphic novel
 

JigglesBunny

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,988
Chicago

Mechanized

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,436
The trailer looked amazing. Not gonna judge it or look for spoilers before it's released. What's the point? Wasn't there a high profile movie script that twitter was dragging and then the movie came out and was amazing? I remember that. Or it was early RT previews or something that were super negative.
 

Maffis

Member
Oct 29, 2017
775
Sweden
For folks who don't want to be on 4chan

>1980s Gotham
>Thomas Wayne is up for re-election as mayor
>Arthur Fleck is an advertising clown, and part-time stand-up comedian
>lives with his severely mentally ill mother
>has a crush on his next-door neighbor
>constantly beaten and picked on while working as a clown
>stand up comedy isn’t much better, constantly heckled and booed away
>begins to develop relationship with neighbor after she sees him beaten up
>Arthur hears his comedian idol is going to be at the bar he performs at
>Arthur dresses fully as a clown, hoping it will improve his performance
>set bombs, and his comedy idol roasts him about it afterwards
>Arthur hides his tears by laughing on Gotham subway
>3 wall street boys try to beat the shit out of Arthur and pick on him
>Arthur retaliates against one of them, accidentally breaking his neck
>Arthur runs from the other two
>his psyche slowly starts to break down
>Arthur arrives home to see the Gotham PD have taken his mother away to Arkham after she was found acting hysterically in the apartment complex corridors
>Arthur tries to confide in his neighbor
>he mistakes her compassion for flirting and she rejects him
>his psyche breaks more and more
>we see a few days pass by as Arthur visits his mother in Arkham
>her happy-go-lucky demeanor has faded and she seems extremely depressed
>one night, Arthur receives a call from Arkham
>his mother is dead from a successful suicide attempt
>Arthur completely cracks, deciding to pull off the “Ulitmate Joke”
>Arthur tries to storm into a charity event held by Wayne for his mayoral campaign
>he’s quickly ejected but makes a scene in front of the press that the Waynes don’t care for the working class of Gotham
>passionate speech doesn’t get much love from the press and media but inspires the lower class peoples of Gotham
>Arthur takes his public protesting to the next level, vandalising Wayne’s campaign advertising whilst dressed as his new persona, “The Clown”
>manages to evade arrest in thanks to his followers who cause random acts of violence to distract the police across Gotham
>crime escalates in Gotham to full on riots citywide
>Arthur gets noticed by his idol and is offered a spot to tell the country his side of the story
>his idol assures him the police will not arrest him on set because he technically hasn’t carried out any of the violence against the police
>appears on his show, seemingly indifferent to meeting his idol again
>whilst spouting a load of shit about his philosophies, Arthur seems to threaten Thomas Wayne, promising before voting day, he will be dead
>Arthur’s idol lies about the police and they quickly storm the show to arrest Arthur
>Arthur escapes the building, but not before slashing his former idol’s neck, leaving him to die live on air
>after being chased for some time, Arthur is finally knocked down by a GCPD car and taken to Arkham after being deemed mentally unstable
>Thomas Wayne visits Arthur and brags that his attempt to murder him has failed
>Arthur reveals his Ultimate Joke was not to expose Thomas for his vast wealth and ignorance of the poor, but to show how easily people can be manipulated
>Arthur tells Thomas before he leaves that he never had to kill him, because he’s inspired a whole city that they can do it themselves
>Thomas makes a passing mention before leaving that it seems like a “bad joke”
>Arthur tells him before he goes “Just wait for the punchline”
>cut to a few weeks later
>Bruce Wayne attending his family’s funeral
>notices Arthur in the distance and goes over to him
>Arthur is out of makeup and costume and tries to cheer Bruce up by doing a simple clown routine
>Bruce briefly mentions he doesn’t like clowns
>Arthur tries to force a smile on Bruce’s face before Alfred quickly drags Bruce away and threatens Arthur
Alfred suddenly realises who Arthur is and questions how he is out of Arkham
>Alfred tries to alert the nearby police but turns and sees Arthur is already gone
>we briefly see how Arthur got out
>whilst being treated by a nurse, Arthur hears the nurse whistle Dick Van Dyke’s ‘Put on a Happy Face’ (a song Arthur uses as an anthem for his followers)
>Arthur is given a nurse’s outfit and leaves the building with his followers
>back in the present, Arthur is back in his old apartment, dressing back into his Clown persona
>it’s revealed there were new tenants in Arthur’s apartment but he has killed them
>Arthur bring a bunch of flowers to his neighbor’s door and leaves them
>she sees the flowers left behind, but as she goes to read the note left with them, she’s sprayed by what appears to be some kind of toxin
>Arthur gets in the elevator and hears her slowly choke to death
>Arthur gets into a car with some of his followers wearing clown masks
>after a short drive through Gotham, Arthur makes them stop at a set of stairs we saw at the start of the movie
>Arthur leaves his goons in the car
>he performs one last song and dance as the credits play over the routine (Put on a Happy Face)
>no post-credit scene
>no reference to other villains other than Falcone
>Jim Gordon isn’t a commissioner but is the head detective on Arthur’s case
>120 minute runtime
>most of the movie isn't plot-related, just scenes of Arthur dreaming of a better life as a successful comedian
>a few lines are taken directly from Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns and the Joker graphic novel
That sounds really bad lol
 

Brock Reiher

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,833
The trailer looked amazing. Not gonna judge it or look for spoilers before it's released. What's the point? Wasn't there a high profile movie script that twitter was dragging and then the movie came out and was amazing? I remember that. Or it was early RT previews or something that were super negative.
you can save $12 or whatever or at least set your expectations properly
 

SteadFast

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,131
For folks who don't want to be on 4chan

>1980s Gotham
>Thomas Wayne is up for re-election as mayor
>Arthur Fleck is an advertising clown, and part-time stand-up comedian
>lives with his severely mentally ill mother
>has a crush on his next-door neighbor
>constantly beaten and picked on while working as a clown
>stand up comedy isn’t much better, constantly heckled and booed away
>begins to develop relationship with neighbor after she sees him beaten up
>Arthur hears his comedian idol is going to be at the bar he performs at
>Arthur dresses fully as a clown, hoping it will improve his performance
>set bombs, and his comedy idol roasts him about it afterwards
>Arthur hides his tears by laughing on Gotham subway
>3 wall street boys try to beat the shit out of Arthur and pick on him
>Arthur retaliates against one of them, accidentally breaking his neck
>Arthur runs from the other two
>his psyche slowly starts to break down
>Arthur arrives home to see the Gotham PD have taken his mother away to Arkham after she was found acting hysterically in the apartment complex corridors
>Arthur tries to confide in his neighbor
>he mistakes her compassion for flirting and she rejects him
>his psyche breaks more and more
>we see a few days pass by as Arthur visits his mother in Arkham
>her happy-go-lucky demeanor has faded and she seems extremely depressed
>one night, Arthur receives a call from Arkham
>his mother is dead from a successful suicide attempt
>Arthur completely cracks, deciding to pull off the “Ulitmate Joke”
>Arthur tries to storm into a charity event held by Wayne for his mayoral campaign
>he’s quickly ejected but makes a scene in front of the press that the Waynes don’t care for the working class of Gotham
>passionate speech doesn’t get much love from the press and media but inspires the lower class peoples of Gotham
>Arthur takes his public protesting to the next level, vandalising Wayne’s campaign advertising whilst dressed as his new persona, “The Clown”
>manages to evade arrest in thanks to his followers who cause random acts of violence to distract the police across Gotham
>crime escalates in Gotham to full on riots citywide
>Arthur gets noticed by his idol and is offered a spot to tell the country his side of the story
>his idol assures him the police will not arrest him on set because he technically hasn’t carried out any of the violence against the police
>appears on his show, seemingly indifferent to meeting his idol again
>whilst spouting a load of shit about his philosophies, Arthur seems to threaten Thomas Wayne, promising before voting day, he will be dead
>Arthur’s idol lies about the police and they quickly storm the show to arrest Arthur
>Arthur escapes the building, but not before slashing his former idol’s neck, leaving him to die live on air
>after being chased for some time, Arthur is finally knocked down by a GCPD car and taken to Arkham after being deemed mentally unstable
>Thomas Wayne visits Arthur and brags that his attempt to murder him has failed
>Arthur reveals his Ultimate Joke was not to expose Thomas for his vast wealth and ignorance of the poor, but to show how easily people can be manipulated
>Arthur tells Thomas before he leaves that he never had to kill him, because he’s inspired a whole city that they can do it themselves
>Thomas makes a passing mention before leaving that it seems like a “bad joke”
>Arthur tells him before he goes “Just wait for the punchline”
>cut to a few weeks later
>Bruce Wayne attending his family’s funeral
>notices Arthur in the distance and goes over to him
>Arthur is out of makeup and costume and tries to cheer Bruce up by doing a simple clown routine
>Bruce briefly mentions he doesn’t like clowns
>Arthur tries to force a smile on Bruce’s face before Alfred quickly drags Bruce away and threatens Arthur
Alfred suddenly realises who Arthur is and questions how he is out of Arkham
>Alfred tries to alert the nearby police but turns and sees Arthur is already gone
>we briefly see how Arthur got out
>whilst being treated by a nurse, Arthur hears the nurse whistle Dick Van Dyke’s ‘Put on a Happy Face’ (a song Arthur uses as an anthem for his followers)
>Arthur is given a nurse’s outfit and leaves the building with his followers
>back in the present, Arthur is back in his old apartment, dressing back into his Clown persona
>it’s revealed there were new tenants in Arthur’s apartment but he has killed them
>Arthur bring a bunch of flowers to his neighbor’s door and leaves them
>she sees the flowers left behind, but as she goes to read the note left with them, she’s sprayed by what appears to be some kind of toxin
>Arthur gets in the elevator and hears her slowly choke to death
>Arthur gets into a car with some of his followers wearing clown masks
>after a short drive through Gotham, Arthur makes them stop at a set of stairs we saw at the start of the movie
>Arthur leaves his goons in the car
>he performs one last song and dance as the credits play over the routine (Put on a Happy Face)
>no post-credit scene
>no reference to other villains other than Falcone
>Jim Gordon isn’t a commissioner but is the head detective on Arthur’s case
>120 minute runtime
>most of the movie isn't plot-related, just scenes of Arthur dreaming of a better life as a successful comedian
>a few lines are taken directly from Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns and the Joker graphic novel
Oh God, don't think Phoenix is gonna be able to save this shit, no matter how much he throws at this role.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
8,620
a sunken pirate ship
Is it so much that I want a Joker that is for Batman a reversal of the dynamic between Superman and Luthor?

Like, Joker should be some extremely online edgy social dem fellow who has like 3 podcasts and is all about trying to wrest control of Gotham away from the pesky hands of the Wayne Corporation, who in their eagerness to control all the wealth allowed poverty to blight the city, causing its residents to turn to criminal actions solely in order to survive.

If we're worried he'll be too sympathetic in that portrayal then pattern him after the hosts of cum town
 

JigglesBunny

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,988
Chicago
Something I will say to those who are worried about the way Joker is portrayed - think V from V for Vendetta and you’re on the right track. It’s troubling to say the least.
 

JDSpades

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,624
I love how
the death of Zazie Beetz’s character is like the “cap” on the story and used to almost tie everything up. Like, remember the girl who turned down this crazy guys advances way earlier in the movie? Fuck her she’s dead too roll credits.

What a mess
 
Last edited:

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,646
Is it so much that I want a Joker that is for Batman a reversal of the dynamic between Superman and Luthor?

Like, Joker should be some extremely online edgy social dem fellow who has like 3 podcasts and is all about trying to wrest control of Gotham away from the pesky hands of the Wayne Corporation, who in their eagerness to control all the wealth allowed poverty to blight the city, causing its residents to turn to criminal actions solely in order to survive.

If we're worried he'll be too sympathetic in that portrayal then pattern him after the hosts of cum town
Boy, do i have a book for you!
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,380
I don't really like being negative on things beforehand. I tend to give things the benefit of the doubt. I don't know how much they had a hand in Grindelwald, but if Joker has issues it seems like a different situation than Suicide Squad.
I just read the beat by beat summary.

It lines up with what we saw in the trailer footage. Which means they shot the beats of that leaked script.

The movie will be awful.
 

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,293
I've started to wonder if DC will begin catering to the crowd that Marvel has angered with all of its recent concentration on diversity (vapid as it may be).
DC has actually been better about casting people of color for traditionally white roles in their movies and television, so I don't really see that happening.
 
Apr 9, 2019
552
CLT
DC has actually been better about casting people of color for traditionally white roles in their movies and television, so I don't really see that happening.
Oh, for sure, I can definitely see that. It's just odd to me, then, that they haven't been met with the same criticism by angry boys online with an axe to grind. I mean, there was Wonder Woman, but some folks have actually taken her up as a model "trad" girl superhero.

I dunno, Very Online folks are weird.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,646
It;s literally "Joker, this crazy fuck is actually the hero of the downtrodden by the government(despite none of his social issues actually relating to the government) SEE SEE, HE'S THE HERO! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!"
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,380
Oh, for sure, I can definitely see that. It's just odd to me, then, that they haven't been met with the same criticism by angry boys online with an axe to grind. I mean, there was Wonder Woman, but some folks have actually taken her up as a model "trad" girl superhero.

I dunno, Very Online folks are weird.
I recall the backlash to WW by those people was immense.

Uh this sounds excellent. No clue why people were bitching about this.
This movie was made for you bro!!
 

Star-Lord

Member
Oct 25, 2017
997
For folks who don't want to be on 4chan

>1980s Gotham
>Thomas Wayne is up for re-election as mayor
>Arthur Fleck is an advertising clown, and part-time stand-up comedian
>lives with his severely mentally ill mother
>has a crush on his next-door neighbor
>constantly beaten and picked on while working as a clown
>stand up comedy isn’t much better, constantly heckled and booed away
>begins to develop relationship with neighbor after she sees him beaten up
>Arthur hears his comedian idol is going to be at the bar he performs at
>Arthur dresses fully as a clown, hoping it will improve his performance
>set bombs, and his comedy idol roasts him about it afterwards
>Arthur hides his tears by laughing on Gotham subway
>3 wall street boys try to beat the shit out of Arthur and pick on him
>Arthur retaliates against one of them, accidentally breaking his neck
>Arthur runs from the other two
>his psyche slowly starts to break down
>Arthur arrives home to see the Gotham PD have taken his mother away to Arkham after she was found acting hysterically in the apartment complex corridors
>Arthur tries to confide in his neighbor
>he mistakes her compassion for flirting and she rejects him
>his psyche breaks more and more
>we see a few days pass by as Arthur visits his mother in Arkham
>her happy-go-lucky demeanor has faded and she seems extremely depressed
>one night, Arthur receives a call from Arkham
>his mother is dead from a successful suicide attempt
>Arthur completely cracks, deciding to pull off the “Ulitmate Joke”
>Arthur tries to storm into a charity event held by Wayne for his mayoral campaign
>he’s quickly ejected but makes a scene in front of the press that the Waynes don’t care for the working class of Gotham
>passionate speech doesn’t get much love from the press and media but inspires the lower class peoples of Gotham
>Arthur takes his public protesting to the next level, vandalising Wayne’s campaign advertising whilst dressed as his new persona, “The Clown”
>manages to evade arrest in thanks to his followers who cause random acts of violence to distract the police across Gotham
>crime escalates in Gotham to full on riots citywide
>Arthur gets noticed by his idol and is offered a spot to tell the country his side of the story
>his idol assures him the police will not arrest him on set because he technically hasn’t carried out any of the violence against the police
>appears on his show, seemingly indifferent to meeting his idol again
>whilst spouting a load of shit about his philosophies, Arthur seems to threaten Thomas Wayne, promising before voting day, he will be dead
>Arthur’s idol lies about the police and they quickly storm the show to arrest Arthur
>Arthur escapes the building, but not before slashing his former idol’s neck, leaving him to die live on air
>after being chased for some time, Arthur is finally knocked down by a GCPD car and taken to Arkham after being deemed mentally unstable
>Thomas Wayne visits Arthur and brags that his attempt to murder him has failed
>Arthur reveals his Ultimate Joke was not to expose Thomas for his vast wealth and ignorance of the poor, but to show how easily people can be manipulated
>Arthur tells Thomas before he leaves that he never had to kill him, because he’s inspired a whole city that they can do it themselves
>Thomas makes a passing mention before leaving that it seems like a “bad joke”
>Arthur tells him before he goes “Just wait for the punchline”
>cut to a few weeks later
>Bruce Wayne attending his family’s funeral
>notices Arthur in the distance and goes over to him
>Arthur is out of makeup and costume and tries to cheer Bruce up by doing a simple clown routine
>Bruce briefly mentions he doesn’t like clowns
>Arthur tries to force a smile on Bruce’s face before Alfred quickly drags Bruce away and threatens Arthur
Alfred suddenly realises who Arthur is and questions how he is out of Arkham
>Alfred tries to alert the nearby police but turns and sees Arthur is already gone
>we briefly see how Arthur got out
>whilst being treated by a nurse, Arthur hears the nurse whistle Dick Van Dyke’s ‘Put on a Happy Face’ (a song Arthur uses as an anthem for his followers)
>Arthur is given a nurse’s outfit and leaves the building with his followers
>back in the present, Arthur is back in his old apartment, dressing back into his Clown persona
>it’s revealed there were new tenants in Arthur’s apartment but he has killed them
>Arthur bring a bunch of flowers to his neighbor’s door and leaves them
>she sees the flowers left behind, but as she goes to read the note left with them, she’s sprayed by what appears to be some kind of toxin
>Arthur gets in the elevator and hears her slowly choke to death
>Arthur gets into a car with some of his followers wearing clown masks
>after a short drive through Gotham, Arthur makes them stop at a set of stairs we saw at the start of the movie
>Arthur leaves his goons in the car
>he performs one last song and dance as the credits play over the routine (Put on a Happy Face)
>no post-credit scene
>no reference to other villains other than Falcone
>Jim Gordon isn’t a commissioner but is the head detective on Arthur’s case
>120 minute runtime
>most of the movie isn't plot-related, just scenes of Arthur dreaming of a better life as a successful comedian
>a few lines are taken directly from Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns and the Joker graphic novel
Eeh it's not bad could be good with execution.
 
Apr 9, 2019
552
CLT
I recall the backlash to WW by those people was immense.
It definitely was, but the dust always settles somewhere. The more ideological wing of the reactionary crowd these days benefits mostly by turning progressive terminology and iconography into propaganda for their own. They also ended up coming around on the actress because she's former IDF.

I'm really not sure whether to call the backlash with Captain Marvel analogous or not, even though I still see memes about Brie Larson's butt to this day. I also just recalled that a Batwoman actress (which hasn't even premiered yet I think) was bullied off of Twitter. So yeah, I'm willing to concede my point about DC catering to this crowd. Not to mention I just remembered that hated Hollywood leftist James Gunn is directing the next Suicide Squad.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,646
Like I dunno why someone would want mass-murdering flippant sociopaths as heroes of the people.
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,856
Making Joker an incel-esque character in an origin story is a pretty natural turn of events for this kind of psychopath tbh

It just depends on how the movie frames it, Taxi Driver kind of laid the blueprint for it years ago and is sadly more relevant than ever today. And I hope Todd Phillip's isnt stupid enough to glorify the lead character in this movie, that's what's more worrisome than the script which sounds fine tbh
 

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,293
Oh, for sure, I can definitely see that. It's just odd to me, then, that they haven't been met with the same criticism by angry boys online with an axe to grind. I mean, there was Wonder Woman, but some folks have actually taken her up as a model "trad" girl superhero.

I dunno, Very Online folks are weird.
I definitely saw a lot of backlash for Starfire's casting in Titans and even Ciara Renee as Hawkgirl in The Flash/Legends of Tomorrow. Don't know about Iris and Wally West in The Flash or making Cisco such a prominent character, but I don't really follow those shows. Didn't see much backlash against Jason Mamoa.

I don't know what trad means. D:
 

dan2026

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,580

This is The Joker to me. Anything that strays too far from this central conceit of the character is not The Joker.

The Joker should also have exactly zero to do with romance. He doesnt care. Even Harley is just a useful, easily manipulated stooge for him to puppet.
 

Seeya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,316
I love how
the death of Zazie Beetz’s character is like the “cap” on the story and used to almost tie everything up. Like, remember the girl who turned down this crazy guys advances way earlier in the movie? Fuck her she’s dead too roll credits.

What a mess
The only redeeming angle to it that I can see is if he’s framed horribly by the end and it’s meant to show him as completely gone and irredeemable. Even then the execution of this film will need to be spectacular.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,740
New York
The only redeeming angle to it that I can see is if he’s framed horribly by the end and it’s meant to show him as completely gone and irredeemable. Even then the execution of this film will need to be spectacular.
That summary repeatedly states him as being insane or going more insane over the course of the film and manipulating Gotham. This doesn’t sound like you’re supposed to walk out of the theater thinking he’s a hero.
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
46,247
For folks who don't want to be on 4chan

>1980s Gotham
>Thomas Wayne is up for re-election as mayor
>Arthur Fleck is an advertising clown, and part-time stand-up comedian
>lives with his severely mentally ill mother
>has a crush on his next-door neighbor
>constantly beaten and picked on while working as a clown
>stand up comedy isn’t much better, constantly heckled and booed away
>begins to develop relationship with neighbor after she sees him beaten up
>Arthur hears his comedian idol is going to be at the bar he performs at
>Arthur dresses fully as a clown, hoping it will improve his performance
>set bombs, and his comedy idol roasts him about it afterwards
>Arthur hides his tears by laughing on Gotham subway
>3 wall street boys try to beat the shit out of Arthur and pick on him
>Arthur retaliates against one of them, accidentally breaking his neck
>Arthur runs from the other two
>his psyche slowly starts to break down
>Arthur arrives home to see the Gotham PD have taken his mother away to Arkham after she was found acting hysterically in the apartment complex corridors
>Arthur tries to confide in his neighbor
>he mistakes her compassion for flirting and she rejects him
>his psyche breaks more and more
>we see a few days pass by as Arthur visits his mother in Arkham
>her happy-go-lucky demeanor has faded and she seems extremely depressed
>one night, Arthur receives a call from Arkham
>his mother is dead from a successful suicide attempt
>Arthur completely cracks, deciding to pull off the “Ulitmate Joke”
>Arthur tries to storm into a charity event held by Wayne for his mayoral campaign
>he’s quickly ejected but makes a scene in front of the press that the Waynes don’t care for the working class of Gotham
>passionate speech doesn’t get much love from the press and media but inspires the lower class peoples of Gotham
>Arthur takes his public protesting to the next level, vandalising Wayne’s campaign advertising whilst dressed as his new persona, “The Clown”
>manages to evade arrest in thanks to his followers who cause random acts of violence to distract the police across Gotham
>crime escalates in Gotham to full on riots citywide
>Arthur gets noticed by his idol and is offered a spot to tell the country his side of the story
>his idol assures him the police will not arrest him on set because he technically hasn’t carried out any of the violence against the police
>appears on his show, seemingly indifferent to meeting his idol again
>whilst spouting a load of shit about his philosophies, Arthur seems to threaten Thomas Wayne, promising before voting day, he will be dead
>Arthur’s idol lies about the police and they quickly storm the show to arrest Arthur
>Arthur escapes the building, but not before slashing his former idol’s neck, leaving him to die live on air
>after being chased for some time, Arthur is finally knocked down by a GCPD car and taken to Arkham after being deemed mentally unstable
>Thomas Wayne visits Arthur and brags that his attempt to murder him has failed
>Arthur reveals his Ultimate Joke was not to expose Thomas for his vast wealth and ignorance of the poor, but to show how easily people can be manipulated
>Arthur tells Thomas before he leaves that he never had to kill him, because he’s inspired a whole city that they can do it themselves
>Thomas makes a passing mention before leaving that it seems like a “bad joke”
>Arthur tells him before he goes “Just wait for the punchline”
>cut to a few weeks later
>Bruce Wayne attending his family’s funeral
>notices Arthur in the distance and goes over to him
>Arthur is out of makeup and costume and tries to cheer Bruce up by doing a simple clown routine
>Bruce briefly mentions he doesn’t like clowns
>Arthur tries to force a smile on Bruce’s face before Alfred quickly drags Bruce away and threatens Arthur
Alfred suddenly realises who Arthur is and questions how he is out of Arkham
>Alfred tries to alert the nearby police but turns and sees Arthur is already gone
>we briefly see how Arthur got out
>whilst being treated by a nurse, Arthur hears the nurse whistle Dick Van Dyke’s ‘Put on a Happy Face’ (a song Arthur uses as an anthem for his followers)
>Arthur is given a nurse’s outfit and leaves the building with his followers
>back in the present, Arthur is back in his old apartment, dressing back into his Clown persona
>it’s revealed there were new tenants in Arthur’s apartment but he has killed them
>Arthur bring a bunch of flowers to his neighbor’s door and leaves them
>she sees the flowers left behind, but as she goes to read the note left with them, she’s sprayed by what appears to be some kind of toxin
>Arthur gets in the elevator and hears her slowly choke to death
>Arthur gets into a car with some of his followers wearing clown masks
>after a short drive through Gotham, Arthur makes them stop at a set of stairs we saw at the start of the movie
>Arthur leaves his goons in the car
>he performs one last song and dance as the credits play over the routine (Put on a Happy Face)
>no post-credit scene
>no reference to other villains other than Falcone
>Jim Gordon isn’t a commissioner but is the head detective on Arthur’s case
>120 minute runtime
>most of the movie isn't plot-related, just scenes of Arthur dreaming of a better life as a successful comedian
>a few lines are taken directly from Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns and the Joker graphic novel
This sounds fucking terrible lol

I love how
the death of Zazie Beetz’s character is like the “cap” on the story and used to almost tie everything up. Like, remember the girl who turned down this crazy guys advances way earlier in the movie? Fuck her she’s dead too roll credits.

What a mess
I love how her death is somehow worse than I pictured. I thought it'd be a spur of the moment thing shortly after being rejected. That he goes out of his way to kill her much later is even more problematic...
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,646
That summary repeatedly states him as being insane or going more insane over the course of the film and manipulating Gotham. This doesn’t sound like you’re supposed to walk out of the theater thinking he’s a hero.
insane isn't used one in that summary. Just that he cracks after his mother's suicide.
 

JDSpades

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,624
That summary repeatedly states him as being insane or going more insane over the course of the film and manipulating Gotham. This doesn’t sound like you’re supposed to walk out of the theater thinking he’s a hero.
He’s portrayed as a hero for the lower class citizens of Gotham fighting against the corrupt politicians. His kills are never criticized in the movie.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,646
Like the worst point is

There's no call out, there's no moment where somebody takes him to task for his shit or it's framed like he's actually the villain in all this. It's fucking wild.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,798
The part where the Joker
delivers the toxic flowers to the neighbour
is in the trailer.