The script for Joker has allegedly leaked, and it's not great

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
14,493
"Ok I have made my mind up, this film sucks. Doenst matter than i have not seen it, doesnt matter that its not finished. Some guy said the script has issues so im gonna jump on that hate train. Fuck this film."

:ResetEra


(joke, dont go daft folks;))
Man you really can't stand that some people don't like GOT as much as you do
 

honest_ry

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,240
Man you really can't stand that some people don't like GOT as much as you do
What the fuck are you talking about? This was a joke based on the way era reacts to little things. LIKE THIS ACTUAL MOVIE.

Nothing do do with GoT. I dont care if someone doesnt like GoT. Im not obsessed with that or any other show. I like that people like something. I dont mind if people hate something.
 

Zhukov

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,197
I for one am deeply troubled at the notion of an evil character performing acts of evil in a work of fiction.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,453
So its truly dead then?
Nah, there'll be another team-up film in a few years fronted by Wondy and Aquabro and it'll do much better than JL.

The trailer seemed to be going for something that if they failed to achieve might make for a really special movie, in all the wrong ways.

I'll hold out hope since the trailer was at least intriguing. But, if it goes bad, I expect it to go fucking baaaaad.



Joker kills the only real woman character in the movie for turning down his advances.

Just a rumor at this point, at least.
If that is real then holy fucking YIKES. Given the current climate with these fucking incel turds turning the most famous supervillain into one of them (whether intentionally or not) seems like an extremely bad idea.
 

Ninjimbo

Member
Dec 6, 2017
1,694
That spoiler doesn’t really bother me. The Joker is a sociopath so he’s going to do stuff like that. But this is also why I kinda thought this movie was a bad idea. I don’t want or need to feel sympathetic for the Joker.

I’m still a little curious about the movie but my hopes aren’t high.
 

Zor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
323
People have been idolising and loving the Joker character for decades now, in different media, despite his sociopathic/murdering behaviour. Him doing the *thing* that has been posted seems more in line with The Killing Joke or Brian Azzarello’s version of the character, so I don’t really have any beef with that. If the movie wants me to sympathise with him though, that’s something else altogether.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
5,547
Only a problem if they want us to sympathize with Joker. Thats would be some try hard dark deep shit.
There's issues surrounding it that I have issues with like how she's the only woman in the entire cast and it's a white man killing a black woman. Both could be resolved with script changes but they never should have gotten anywhere near this in production.
 

Visanideth

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
4,631
I for one am deeply troubled at the notion of an evil character performing acts of evil in a work of fiction.
Hey, it's a DC movie. It's vile by definition, no?



Only a problem if they want us to sympathize with Joker. Thats would be some try hard dark deep shit.
Considering that we live in a world where almost 10 million people die every year due to starvation and lack of natural resources and we had zero problems sympathizing with a purple guy who suggested the good solution was killing half of them (and everyone else), nor we pointed out how that antiheroic portrayal was problematic, I think the real problem here isn't sympathizing with villains but the political implications of some people sympathizing with this. It's not the what, it's the who.

It's the same problem of people hating on Fight Club or American History X because Nazis completely misunderstood those movies and ended up liking them. So instead of mocking the Nazis, we advocate for the movies being terrible because... ok, I don't really know how this works, honestly.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
5,547
It's the same problem of people hating on Fight Club or American History X because Nazis completely misunderstood those movies and ended up liking them. So instead of mocking the Nazis, we advocate for the movies being terrible because... ok, I don't really know how this works, honestly.
It's a fine line between deconstructing bad people and making them look cool.
 

Visanideth

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
4,631
There's issues surrounding it that I have issues with like how she's the only woman in the entire cast and it's a white man killing a black woman. Both could be resolved with script changes but they never should have gotten anywhere near this in production.
Why. Bloody why.

Are we really advocating for a world were we don't cast minorities or women in roles where they may die because some shitstain somewhere may get off on it? Is the idea that there's people who can't be portrayed in certain types of stories based on their gender or skin color actually in favour of those people?

Because one thing is avoiding fiction that celebrates the concept of a racially charged murder (which is obviously unacceptable), but if the end result is that whenever we have a script where a character kills a woman we decide we can't cast a black actress if the guy is white, or that - by extention - it shouldn't be a woman at all, so we make the character a man, I don't see how we're not discriminating people. Unless the next step is "we're never going to tell another story that features a man killing a woman". Which again means we're deciding what kind of stories women or PoC can feature in. We shouldn't decide it's acceptable to shape our fiction around the expectations of the worst people, even if to defy them, in my opinion. We shouldn't acknowledge the hateful thoughts unless we want to. If we want to make movies that act as a "fuck you" for people who entertain those ideas, great, but we can't be held at ransom at all times. I don't want to entertain the idea that this would work fine if it was Emma Stone instead of a Zazie Beets in the role. It doesn't feel right. She has every right to be cast in any role.


Now, the Joker killing the girl because she rejects him is a wholly different problem and THERE the actual movie has a responsibility, because if it's the act that destroys the pretense of likeability of the Joker and reveals the antihero as a petty monster, it could even be good. If it's a stepping stone on his progression and it's brushed away in a piece of celebrative fiction, then the movie will deserve all the criticism.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,036
United Kingdom
As a movie about a guy who was a clown and has bad shit happen, which makes him go crazy, it looks like it might be an interesting movie.

As a movie about the DC comic book villain The Joker, it sounds terrible and nothing like how the character should be.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,091
Someone posted a supposed plot point. I'm spoiler tagging it (the tweet itself is scrambled and needs a website to unscramble it), but just in case...


If this isn't allowed mods can remove it.
Well, he is the Joker. I fully expect him
killing people, both women and men
, hell I feel silly putting that in spoilers. It depends of how they express it on screen, if they make some BS of
'if only he had been accepted by her he wouldn't have turned into the Joker!'
then I will complain.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,856
It's a bit too early for takes on this? Why are we believing this with no proof? We also know there have been rewrites to the script as well. I think confirmation bias is maybe at work with some of y'all. Let's not jump out the window yet.
 

Visanideth

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
4,631
Well, he is the Joker. I fully expect him
killing people, both women and men
, hell I feel silly putting that in spoilers. It depends of how they express it on screen, if they make some BS of
'if only he had been accepted by her he wouldn't have turned into the Joker!'
then I will complain.
Yeah, the problematic content would be the second spoiler. If it's "and this act shows you how much his rethoric was pretense and he's actually just a petty asshole", it can work.
 

Philippo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,963
Milan, Italy
Can someone contextualize what those tweets mean?

What does it mean "unfuckabld chuds who think tyler durden is the hero"?

And like, how is it different than lets say The Killing Joke?
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,783
Eh I'm not too sure about this, just on its face. I'm Still Here would probably be a terrible and problematic script to read too, hell tons of movies would be shit just on paper. Joaquin is pretty good, so I'll be interested to see what happens at least.
 

Toddhunter

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,469
Can someone contextualize what those tweets mean?
You could drawn two meanings.

Firstly it basically means that the whole movie is rushed and full of lazy writing. This would be because they want to move on another project and are hacks. This would also be why I'm never going to watch the new star wars movies and I'm a life long fan.

The other way to look at it is that we have no context, so it doesn't actually mean anything yet.
 

Alice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,157
For those who simply don't get it, this isn't about him killing someone, this is about...

Murdering a woman who didn't want him, and that becoming pivotal to becoming the Joker. This basically makes it the fault of the woman, that the Joker exists, simply because she rejected his advances.

Why does this even need to be explained?
 

Seeya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,035
For those who simply don't get it, this isn't about him killing someone, this is about...

Murdering a woman who didn't want him, and that becoming pivotal to becoming the Joker. This basically makes it the fault of the woman, that the Joker exists, simply because she rejected his advances.

Why does this even need to be explained?
It depends entirely on if that’s framed as a good thing at all. The Joker being pathetic etc, and how this action/reaction is presented in context. We don’t know if the film does or doesn’t do that.
 

Cpt-GargameL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,383
For those who simply don't get it, this isn't about him killing someone, this is about...

Murdering a woman who didn't want him, and that becoming pivotal to becoming the Joker. This basically makes it the fault of the woman, that the Joker exists, simply because she rejected his advances.

Why does this even need to be explained?
So it is said to be THE pivotal point to him becoming Joker or is it one of many things that sets him on that path? Unless there were more tweets mentioning this idk maybe I missed it.
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,034
So it is said to be THE pivotal point to him becoming Joker or is it one of many things that sets him on that path? Unless there were more tweets mentioning this idk maybe I missed it.
Seeing as the the trailer has him getting fucked from all ends by society (lol memes) im going to go with "THE pivotal point" personally
 

Alice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,157
So it is said to be THE pivotal point to him becoming Joker or is it one of many things that sets him on that path? Unless there were more tweets mentioning this idk maybe I missed it.
It's pretty obvious that it'll be, look at the trailer and how it's being framed. People aren't reacting to the script like that for no reason.
 

Cpt-GargameL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,383
Seeing as the the trailer has him getting fucked from all ends by society (lol memes) im going to go with "THE pivotal point" personally
It's pretty obvious that it'll be, look at the trailer and how it's being framed. People aren't reacting to the script like that for no reason.
I see.

I mean I'm still watching it day one. But if this is indeed the way it's set up then there will be a riot.
 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
3,569
Brazil
That being a bad plot point revolves entirely around it's context. If Joker is already a psycho and just
uses the rejection as an "out" to justify to himself that she deserves it and it's pretty clear the movie frames that as a bad thing and just looking for a motive to kill someone
then it's kinda ok. Joker is a pretty terrible and irredeemable person, let's hope the movie frames him as such.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,940
Well he is a bad guy, I s'pose. That sort of thing should horrify us, but it depends a lot on how the movie frames it. If it gives people reason to celebrate it, then the movie really is fucked up and all my interest just died.
I think the main issue here is just that this is a really lame spin to turn Joker into a bad guy. Killing Joke was already a comic that made it no secret how Joker's "origin", despite tragic, is kind of a pathetic excuse - and even that was missed on a lot of people. I have no doubt in my mind that people are gonna miss the point even more with this movie, whether or not they go with this as his origin.

It's probably the reason why a solo Joker movie never really worked with me. Without Batman, the point is kind of lost, and so is the overall moral.

Ultimately if this plot point is what sets him off into becoming "Joker", then that's a terrible plot point. If it's after the fact, then I guess that's more understandable as a "how far I've fallen" point, but still just really lame.
 

Visanideth

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
4,631
For those who simply don't get it, this isn't about him killing someone, this is about...

Murdering a woman who didn't want him, and that becoming pivotal to becoming the Joker. This basically makes it the fault of the woman, that the Joker exists, simply because she rejected his advances.

Why does this even need to be explained?

I know what you mean, but even in that case, how can we even accept that idea? Let's say this plays out as the worst case scenario, how could we get to a point where such a deranged interpretation is something we need to take into account? How can anyone see that play out and think "See, her fault!"?
 

gutter_trash

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,626
Montreal
My biggest gripe with the trailer is actually Thomas Wayne

Having a Wayne heavily involved in the movie sounds like backstory prequel rubbish
 

Plotinus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
252
Awww hell yeah, this is exactly what I wanted this movie to be. Just some straight-up Tyler Durden-worshipping Gamers Rise Up shit. It was so much less entertaining when DC movies were bottoming out artistically by making boring, joyless mediocrities like Justice League. Bring on the raging incompetence and actual, legitimate offensiveness. All aboard the hate-watch train.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,093
England
I think the main issue here is just that this is a really lame spin to turn Joker into a bad guy. Killing Joke was already a comic that made it no secret how Joker's "origin", despite tragic, is kind of a pathetic excuse - and even that was missed on a lot of people. I have no doubt in my mind that people are gonna miss the point even more with this movie, whether or not they go with this as his origin.

It's probably the reason why a solo Joker movie never really worked with me. Without Batman, the point is kind of lost, and so is the overall moral.

Ultimately if this plot point is what sets him off into becoming "Joker", then that's a terrible plot point. If it's after the fact, then I guess that's more understandable as a "how far I've fallen" point, but still just really lame.
I don't think it would be what drives him over the edge.

Unless the trailer is a misdirection, he's a mentally ill adult whose anchor is his mother and she helps him cope with the physical and emotional abuse he suffers in a city that's just... broken.

Then, one day she dies and without her there to keep him grounded he just slips further into madness - presumably what creates the "Joker" is his failed attempts to be a stand up comedian, where he's embarrassed on live television by Robert de Niro and later kills him, which in turn rallies all the other broken people of Gotham behind him.

At least, if you asked me the plot of Joker off the trailer, that's what I'd say happens.