You act like it hasn't been before. Look at media, and how it treats women as prizes to be won.
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The script for Joker has allegedly leaked, and it's not great
- Thread starter Deleted member 51691
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You act like it hasn't been before. Look at media, and how it treats women as prizes to be won.
Yes it is. But anything that suggests a DC movie will be bad gets traffic here. It's already taken as fact here.
The script was rewritten almost daily on set. So whatever leaked scripts say, the end result will be different. Just gotta wait and see before putting all your trust in a tweet.
And the spoiler isn't a problem depending on how it's framed. Honestly, it's expected of the Joker. He's done worse. Either way, problematic people will find insipiration in anything.
I'm not saying we've not seen it. What I'm trying to figure out is how we decided to assume that in this event that's the default interpretation, or that we need to modify how we express to avoid catering to some people, I guess.
The idea that depicting a victim is bad because it empowers victim-blamers is something that we shouldn't be willing to accept, in my opinion. It's plenty possible that the movie's portrayal will be disasterous and then it will be rightfully lambasted for it. But the idea that horrible people and their ideas dictate what we can and cannot portray, and worse yet who gets to be cast in a certain role, even if it's an act of defiance, feels wrong to me.
I instantly got "this is going to make an insufferable 'joke was right' fandom" vibes from the trailer. But that spoiler... I didn't even consider it would be that bad.
...I would expect nothing less from a murderer, don't know why that's a problem.
So wait, the only thing revealed among people talking about it being terrible is that he kills a woman he was interested in, turning him down. I don't want to defend a film no-one has seen but whether or not it's that blatant in the film, it clearly isn't the only thing he does, he is clearly insane anyway AND it's click bait! They know more (it seems) but they're going to mention the one that will get the most traction. "Journalism".
I mean to be fair it is a Joker movie. Him being an incel shitlord does make sense, but it shows a key reason why you shouldn't do a Joker movie like this. You need the Batman world and tone to make Joker work as a protagonist. You need Joker to be a definitive bad person if you're gonna make him do stuff like this. You can't make Joker someone you're supposed to sympathize with. Otherwise you'll end up with Gamer 2: Incel's Leave the Bedroom and we could all live without that.
What other interpretation would there be, with a character like the Joker? This film is entirely about him, and how he becomes to be who he is. Having something like that play a pivotal role in the guy becoming an absolute monster is just a bad look in general. This isn't a film, where Joker is the villain. He's the protagonist. And if you look at the trailer, it's pretty clear that we're supposed to feel sorry for him.
I'm fine with that plot point in a bubble; I'm not going to judge that itself without the context.
It could be great or it could be legitimately awful. There isn't enough to go on from that one sentence to determine how it is handled beyond tonal speculation of the trailer.
It could be great or it could be legitimately awful. There isn't enough to go on from that one sentence to determine how it is handled beyond tonal speculation of the trailer.
So, all of this discussion over rumors, unverified tweets and a plot point without context? I understand why people have a problem with it but it just seems premature to write off the film.
I wonder if this is the actual final shooting script? Because I remember Zazie Beetz saying they were constantly rewriting on the fly while shooting.
Not reading the spoilers (or maybe just it's the one spoiler?) but, as someone who thought the trailer looked pretty good, wouldn't surprised me if the movie turned out sideways. Hoping for the best but always had reservations about Todd Phillips directing.
Not reading the spoilers (or maybe just it's the one spoiler?) but, as someone who thought the trailer looked pretty good, wouldn't surprised me if the movie turned out sideways. Hoping for the best but always had reservations about Todd Phillips directing.
It was clear from the moment this film was announced that the Joker was going to be a Travis Bickle type of societal outcast. How this tweet is surprising to anyone is beyond me unless you're unfamiliar with the type of 70s cinema this is clearly modeled after.
I think the entire point is to paint a nuanced picture of a disturbed individual whom the audience can empathize with due to how they have been treated by society.
Of course I have no idea if the filmmakers walk that line effectively or not, but that's the obvious goal.
I think the entire point is to paint a nuanced picture of a disturbed individual whom the audience can empathize with due to how they have been treated by society.
Of course I have no idea if the filmmakers walk that line effectively or not, but that's the obvious goal.
Idk who they are and now I know them as the desperate for retweets rumor hanger on person.
That's how I feel about it. I expect the Joker to do vile, fucked up things and I also expect a Scorsese inspired crime film to be very male-centric.
Hopefully the film is good, the more controversial elements are well done and I hope it doesn't inspire a bunch of shitheads to be fucking monsters.
Deplorables will be deplorables.
I think I heard somewhere that the joker is some kind of 'redpill' icon... Is this a thing? If so, I reject it and dgaf what anyone twists.
The reactions around here to Taxi Driver being released today would be so annoying.
Think we can speculate, bullshit about it here, and do that just the same after release.
This doesn't mean it's gonna be a bad movie... Just that it's gonna appeal to the same dudes who dont realize Tyler Durden isn't supposed to be a role model. Whether the movie botches the message or not has no bearing on what these guys will see as cool.
I mean we can, but some people are loud and weird and won't do that.
Chud is some brapo brap house thing short for Christian Homeschooled Uneducated Dummy
It's funny how anyone had expectations for a Joker movie in the first place really, and it's even funnier that we're going off some super vague, unverified, out of context tweets from literal who's to tell us an unfinished movie is bad
They may have popularized it, but to me it will always stand for Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dweller. :p
I didn't think a Joker origin movie was a very good idea from the start. But if you are in for that movie I dunno why you would freak out when Joker does Joker things in it. I mean it's a movie based on a crazy clown who kills people and you don't even have Batman in there to sorta say that shit ain't cool man lol.
The protagonist can also be the villain of a story. Taxi Driver, There Will Be Blood, Good Times, American Pyscho, The King of Comedy, Maniac, The Sword of Doom, to name a few examples
Like suicide squad and BvS
I will continue to hold out for reviews for DC movies, they have not earned my trust like marvel movies have. Been burned too many times.
If that spoiler is true then yikes. I don't know how anyone can defend it. I can't imagine any context where that plot point would be ok.
I'm not reading the spoilers but this sucks if true. The trailer made it look like were were going to get something special.
Same way they defended Hulk + Black Widow. If it ends up being good, no one cares
Multiple people I know who worked on it have told me the movie is doggy doodoo so... this is what you get for expecting something good from the guy who made War Dogs
Yeah, and many of the protagonists of these stores are being idiolized and looked up to by people. Also see Walter White.
Its not cinema's fault that people(read: idiots) take the wrong messages from them
It's still cinema's fault to produce such harmful storylines, when there's a million other ways to show how despicable Joker is. This is the same line of thinking people who defend idiotic rape storylines dish out.
