Man you really can't stand that some people don't like GOT as much as you do
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The script for Joker has allegedly leaked, and it's not great
- Thread starter Deleted member 51691
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A joke with some truth behind it lol.
This is Era after all. ;)
What the fuck are you talking about? This was a joke based on the way era reacts to little things. LIKE THIS ACTUAL MOVIE.
Nothing do do with GoT. I dont care if someone doesnt like GoT. Im not obsessed with that or any other show. I like that people like something. I dont mind if people hate something.
Nah, there'll be another team-up film in a few years fronted by Wondy and Aquabro and it'll do much better than JL.
If that is real then holy fucking YIKES. Given the current climate with these fucking incel turds turning the most famous supervillain into one of them (whether intentionally or not) seems like an extremely bad idea.
That spoiler doesn't really bother me. The Joker is a sociopath so he's going to do stuff like that. But this is also why I kinda thought this movie was a bad idea. I don't want or need to feel sympathetic for the Joker.
I'm still a little curious about the movie but my hopes aren't high.
I'm still a little curious about the movie but my hopes aren't high.
People have been idolising and loving the Joker character for decades now, in different media, despite his sociopathic/murdering behaviour. Him doing the *thing* that has been posted seems more in line with The Killing Joke or Brian Azzarello's version of the character, so I don't really have any beef with that. If the movie wants me to sympathise with him though, that's something else altogether.
Agreed. Maybe they can get this right but the context in all this is not encouraging.
There's issues surrounding it that I have issues with like how she's the only woman in the entire cast and it's a white man killing a black woman. Both could be resolved with script changes but they never should have gotten anywhere near this in production.
Hey, it's a DC movie. It's vile by definition, no?
Considering that we live in a world where almost 10 million people die every year due to starvation and lack of natural resources and we had zero problems sympathizing with a purple guy who suggested the good solution was killing half of them (and everyone else), nor we pointed out how that antiheroic portrayal was problematic, I think the real problem here isn't sympathizing with villains but the political implications of some people sympathizing with this. It's not the what, it's the who.
It's the same problem of people hating on Fight Club or American History X because Nazis completely misunderstood those movies and ended up liking them. So instead of mocking the Nazis, we advocate for the movies being terrible because... ok, I don't really know how this works, honestly.
worst case scenario is some incels copy his behavior because gamers rise up works as a meme because we all know those types literally do idolize joker
It's a fine line between deconstructing bad people and making them look cool.
Why. Bloody why.
Are we really advocating for a world were we don't cast minorities or women in roles where they may die because some shitstain somewhere may get off on it? Is the idea that there's people who can't be portrayed in certain types of stories based on their gender or skin color actually in favour of those people?
Because one thing is avoiding fiction that celebrates the concept of a racially charged murder (which is obviously unacceptable), but if the end result is that whenever we have a script where a character kills a woman we decide we can't cast a black actress if the guy is white, or that - by extention - it shouldn't be a woman at all, so we make the character a man, I don't see how we're not discriminating people. Unless the next step is "we're never going to tell another story that features a man killing a woman". Which again means we're deciding what kind of stories women or PoC can feature in. We shouldn't decide it's acceptable to shape our fiction around the expectations of the worst people, even if to defy them, in my opinion. We shouldn't acknowledge the hateful thoughts unless we want to. If we want to make movies that act as a "fuck you" for people who entertain those ideas, great, but we can't be held at ransom at all times. I don't want to entertain the idea that this would work fine if it was Emma Stone instead of a Zazie Beets in the role. It doesn't feel right. She has every right to be cast in any role.
Now, the Joker killing the girl because she rejects him is a wholly different problem and THERE the actual movie has a responsibility, because if it's the act that destroys the pretense of likeability of the Joker and reveals the antihero as a petty monster, it could even be good. If it's a stepping stone on his progression and it's brushed away in a piece of celebrative fiction, then the movie will deserve all the criticism.
Because one thing is avoiding fiction that celebrates the concept of a racially charged murder (which is obviously unacceptable), but if the end result is that whenever we have a script where a character kills a woman we decide we can't cast a black actress if the guy is white, or that - by extention - it shouldn't be a woman at all, so we make the character a man, I don't see how we're not discriminating people. Unless the next step is "we're never going to tell another story that features a man killing a woman". Which again means we're deciding what kind of stories women or PoC can feature in. We shouldn't decide it's acceptable to shape our fiction around the expectations of the worst people, even if to defy them, in my opinion. We shouldn't acknowledge the hateful thoughts unless we want to. If we want to make movies that act as a "fuck you" for people who entertain those ideas, great, but we can't be held at ransom at all times. I don't want to entertain the idea that this would work fine if it was Emma Stone instead of a Zazie Beets in the role. It doesn't feel right. She has every right to be cast in any role.
Now, the Joker killing the girl because she rejects him is a wholly different problem and THERE the actual movie has a responsibility, because if it's the act that destroys the pretense of likeability of the Joker and reveals the antihero as a petty monster, it could even be good. If it's a stepping stone on his progression and it's brushed away in a piece of celebrative fiction, then the movie will deserve all the criticism.
As a movie about a guy who was a clown and has bad shit happen, which makes him go crazy, it looks like it might be an interesting movie.
As a movie about the DC comic book villain The Joker, it sounds terrible and nothing like how the character should be.
As a movie about the DC comic book villain The Joker, it sounds terrible and nothing like how the character should be.
Well, he is the Joker. I fully expect him
killing people, both women and men
'if only he had been accepted by her he wouldn't have turned into the Joker!'
It's a bit too early for takes on this? Why are we believing this with no proof? We also know there have been rewrites to the script as well. I think confirmation bias is maybe at work with some of y'all. Let's not jump out the window yet.
Yeah, the problematic content would be the second spoiler. If it's "and this act shows you how much his rethoric was pretense and he's actually just a petty asshole", it can work.
You could drawn two meanings.
Firstly it basically means that the whole movie is rushed and full of lazy writing. This would be because they want to move on another project and are hacks. This would also be why I'm never going to watch the new star wars movies and I'm a life long fan.
The other way to look at it is that we have no context, so it doesn't actually mean anything yet.
Yes, this is the clip to use to demonstrate that the Joker is a worthwhile character who is not problematic or handled in a ham-handed way in current DC media. Good job. /s
For those who simply don't get it, this isn't about him killing someone, this is about...
Why does this even need to be explained?
Murdering a woman who didn't want him, and that becoming pivotal to becoming the Joker. This basically makes it the fault of the woman, that the Joker exists, simply because she rejected his advances.
Why does this even need to be explained?
It depends entirely on if that's framed as a good thing at all. The Joker being pathetic etc, and how this action/reaction is presented in context. We don't know if the film does or doesn't do that.
No, it doesn't. As long as the rejection is what makes him the joker, it's absolutely goddamn problematic.
Wait, that meme group is making these ironically?So...
This film was made by
But unironically.
Well he is a bad guy, I s'pose. That sort of thing should horrify us, but it depends a lot on how the movie frames it. If it gives people reason to celebrate it, then the movie really is fucked up and all my interest just died.
So it is said to be THE pivotal point to him becoming Joker or is it one of many things that sets him on that path? Unless there were more tweets mentioning this idk maybe I missed it.
Seeing as the the trailer has him getting fucked from all ends by society (lol memes) im going to go with "THE pivotal point" personally
It's pretty obvious that it'll be, look at the trailer and how it's being framed. People aren't reacting to the script like that for no reason.
I see.
I mean I'm still watching it day one. But if this is indeed the way it's set up then there will be a riot.
That being a bad plot point revolves entirely around it's context. If Joker is already a psycho and just
then it's kinda ok. Joker is a pretty terrible and irredeemable person, let's hope the movie frames him as such.
uses the rejection as an "out" to justify to himself that she deserves it and it's pretty clear the movie frames that as a bad thing and just looking for a motive to kill someone
Well damn. I guess these days everywhere is full of alt-right/gamergators/Gamer™ idiots that I can't decide what's ironic or unironic shit posting anymore.
I think the main issue here is just that this is a really lame spin to turn Joker into a bad guy. Killing Joke was already a comic that made it no secret how Joker's "origin", despite tragic, is kind of a pathetic excuse - and even that was missed on a lot of people. I have no doubt in my mind that people are gonna miss the point even more with this movie, whether or not they go with this as his origin.
It's probably the reason why a solo Joker movie never really worked with me. Without Batman, the point is kind of lost, and so is the overall moral.
Ultimately if this plot point is what sets him off into becoming "Joker", then that's a terrible plot point. If it's after the fact, then I guess that's more understandable as a "how far I've fallen" point, but still just really lame.
I know what you mean, but even in that case, how can we even accept that idea? Let's say this plays out as the worst case scenario, how could we get to a point where such a deranged interpretation is something we need to take into account? How can anyone see that play out and think "See, her fault!"?
My biggest gripe with the trailer is actually Thomas Wayne
Having a Wayne heavily involved in the movie sounds like backstory prequel rubbish
Having a Wayne heavily involved in the movie sounds like backstory prequel rubbish
Awww hell yeah, this is exactly what I wanted this movie to be. Just some straight-up Tyler Durden-worshipping Gamers Rise Up shit. It was so much less entertaining when DC movies were bottoming out artistically by making boring, joyless mediocrities like Justice League. Bring on the raging incompetence and actual, legitimate offensiveness. All aboard the hate-watch train.
I don't think it would be what drives him over the edge.
Unless the trailer is a misdirection, he's a mentally ill adult whose anchor is his mother and she helps him cope with the physical and emotional abuse he suffers in a city that's just... broken.
Then, one day she dies and without her there to keep him grounded he just slips further into madness - presumably what creates the "Joker" is his failed attempts to be a stand up comedian, where he's embarrassed on live television by Robert de Niro and later kills him, which in turn rallies all the other broken people of Gotham behind him.
At least, if you asked me the plot of Joker off the trailer, that's what I'd say happens.