-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
The script for Joker has allegedly leaked, and it's not great
- Thread starter Deleted member 51691
- Start date
This.
This is all not even mentioning the fact that the Joker is a flawed and dated depiction of mental illness anyway. You can write good mentally ill antagonists but the Joker is a caricature that with each new film adaptation bares its problems more and more. Not that you can't love the character and his arcs for what they are, particularly in the Dark Knight and in the comics- I sure do.
This just piles on to that is what I'm saying. I would argue that the Joker has been depicted as sympathetic before-- such as his probably false backstory in the Killing Joke-- but this is exactly the wrong thing to make him sympathetic if that is indeed what we're going for.
I've started to wonder if DC will begin catering to the crowd that Marvel has angered with all of its recent concentration on diversity (vapid as it may be).
This seems pretty terrible and
the death of his neighbour seems to be completely gratuitous.
I don't really like being negative on things beforehand. I tend to give things the benefit of the doubt. I don't know how much they had a hand in Grindelwald, but if Joker has issues it seems like a different situation than Suicide Squad.
For folks who don't want to be on 4chan
>1980s Gotham
>Thomas Wayne is up for re-election as mayor
>Arthur Fleck is an advertising clown, and part-time stand-up comedian
>lives with his severely mentally ill mother
>has a crush on his next-door neighbor
>constantly beaten and picked on while working as a clown
>stand up comedy isn't much better, constantly heckled and booed away
>begins to develop relationship with neighbor after she sees him beaten up
>Arthur hears his comedian idol is going to be at the bar he performs at
>Arthur dresses fully as a clown, hoping it will improve his performance
>set bombs, and his comedy idol roasts him about it afterwards
>Arthur hides his tears by laughing on Gotham subway
>3 wall street boys try to beat the shit out of Arthur and pick on him
>Arthur retaliates against one of them, accidentally breaking his neck
>Arthur runs from the other two
>his psyche slowly starts to break down
>Arthur arrives home to see the Gotham PD have taken his mother away to Arkham after she was found acting hysterically in the apartment complex corridors
>Arthur tries to confide in his neighbor
>he mistakes her compassion for flirting and she rejects him
>his psyche breaks more and more
>we see a few days pass by as Arthur visits his mother in Arkham
>her happy-go-lucky demeanor has faded and she seems extremely depressed
>one night, Arthur receives a call from Arkham
>his mother is dead from a successful suicide attempt
>Arthur completely cracks, deciding to pull off the "Ulitmate Joke"
>Arthur tries to storm into a charity event held by Wayne for his mayoral campaign
>he's quickly ejected but makes a scene in front of the press that the Waynes don't care for the working class of Gotham
>passionate speech doesn't get much love from the press and media but inspires the lower class peoples of Gotham
>Arthur takes his public protesting to the next level, vandalising Wayne's campaign advertising whilst dressed as his new persona, "The Clown"
>manages to evade arrest in thanks to his followers who cause random acts of violence to distract the police across Gotham
>crime escalates in Gotham to full on riots citywide
>Arthur gets noticed by his idol and is offered a spot to tell the country his side of the story
>his idol assures him the police will not arrest him on set because he technically hasn't carried out any of the violence against the police
>appears on his show, seemingly indifferent to meeting his idol again
>whilst spouting a load of shit about his philosophies, Arthur seems to threaten Thomas Wayne, promising before voting day, he will be dead
>Arthur's idol lies about the police and they quickly storm the show to arrest Arthur
>Arthur escapes the building, but not before slashing his former idol's neck, leaving him to die live on air
>after being chased for some time, Arthur is finally knocked down by a GCPD car and taken to Arkham after being deemed mentally unstable
>Thomas Wayne visits Arthur and brags that his attempt to murder him has failed
>Arthur reveals his Ultimate Joke was not to expose Thomas for his vast wealth and ignorance of the poor, but to show how easily people can be manipulated
>Arthur tells Thomas before he leaves that he never had to kill him, because he's inspired a whole city that they can do it themselves
>Thomas makes a passing mention before leaving that it seems like a "bad joke"
>Arthur tells him before he goes "Just wait for the punchline"
>cut to a few weeks later
>Bruce Wayne attending his family's funeral
>notices Arthur in the distance and goes over to him
>Arthur is out of makeup and costume and tries to cheer Bruce up by doing a simple clown routine
>Bruce briefly mentions he doesn't like clowns
>Arthur tries to force a smile on Bruce's face before Alfred quickly drags Bruce away and threatens Arthur
Alfred suddenly realises who Arthur is and questions how he is out of Arkham
>Alfred tries to alert the nearby police but turns and sees Arthur is already gone
>we briefly see how Arthur got out
>whilst being treated by a nurse, Arthur hears the nurse whistle Dick Van Dyke's 'Put on a Happy Face' (a song Arthur uses as an anthem for his followers)
>Arthur is given a nurse's outfit and leaves the building with his followers
>back in the present, Arthur is back in his old apartment, dressing back into his Clown persona
>it's revealed there were new tenants in Arthur's apartment but he has killed them
>Arthur bring a bunch of flowers to his neighbor's door and leaves them
>she sees the flowers left behind, but as she goes to read the note left with them, she's sprayed by what appears to be some kind of toxin
>Arthur gets in the elevator and hears her slowly choke to death
>Arthur gets into a car with some of his followers wearing clown masks
>after a short drive through Gotham, Arthur makes them stop at a set of stairs we saw at the start of the movie
>Arthur leaves his goons in the car
>he performs one last song and dance as the credits play over the routine (Put on a Happy Face)
>no post-credit scene
>no reference to other villains other than Falcone
>Jim Gordon isn't a commissioner but is the head detective on Arthur's case
>120 minute runtime
>most of the movie isn't plot-related, just scenes of Arthur dreaming of a better life as a successful comedian
>a few lines are taken directly from Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns and the Joker graphic novel
>Thomas Wayne is up for re-election as mayor
>Arthur Fleck is an advertising clown, and part-time stand-up comedian
>lives with his severely mentally ill mother
>has a crush on his next-door neighbor
>constantly beaten and picked on while working as a clown
>stand up comedy isn't much better, constantly heckled and booed away
>begins to develop relationship with neighbor after she sees him beaten up
>Arthur hears his comedian idol is going to be at the bar he performs at
>Arthur dresses fully as a clown, hoping it will improve his performance
>set bombs, and his comedy idol roasts him about it afterwards
>Arthur hides his tears by laughing on Gotham subway
>3 wall street boys try to beat the shit out of Arthur and pick on him
>Arthur retaliates against one of them, accidentally breaking his neck
>Arthur runs from the other two
>his psyche slowly starts to break down
>Arthur arrives home to see the Gotham PD have taken his mother away to Arkham after she was found acting hysterically in the apartment complex corridors
>Arthur tries to confide in his neighbor
>he mistakes her compassion for flirting and she rejects him
>his psyche breaks more and more
>we see a few days pass by as Arthur visits his mother in Arkham
>her happy-go-lucky demeanor has faded and she seems extremely depressed
>one night, Arthur receives a call from Arkham
>his mother is dead from a successful suicide attempt
>Arthur completely cracks, deciding to pull off the "Ulitmate Joke"
>Arthur tries to storm into a charity event held by Wayne for his mayoral campaign
>he's quickly ejected but makes a scene in front of the press that the Waynes don't care for the working class of Gotham
>passionate speech doesn't get much love from the press and media but inspires the lower class peoples of Gotham
>Arthur takes his public protesting to the next level, vandalising Wayne's campaign advertising whilst dressed as his new persona, "The Clown"
>manages to evade arrest in thanks to his followers who cause random acts of violence to distract the police across Gotham
>crime escalates in Gotham to full on riots citywide
>Arthur gets noticed by his idol and is offered a spot to tell the country his side of the story
>his idol assures him the police will not arrest him on set because he technically hasn't carried out any of the violence against the police
>appears on his show, seemingly indifferent to meeting his idol again
>whilst spouting a load of shit about his philosophies, Arthur seems to threaten Thomas Wayne, promising before voting day, he will be dead
>Arthur's idol lies about the police and they quickly storm the show to arrest Arthur
>Arthur escapes the building, but not before slashing his former idol's neck, leaving him to die live on air
>after being chased for some time, Arthur is finally knocked down by a GCPD car and taken to Arkham after being deemed mentally unstable
>Thomas Wayne visits Arthur and brags that his attempt to murder him has failed
>Arthur reveals his Ultimate Joke was not to expose Thomas for his vast wealth and ignorance of the poor, but to show how easily people can be manipulated
>Arthur tells Thomas before he leaves that he never had to kill him, because he's inspired a whole city that they can do it themselves
>Thomas makes a passing mention before leaving that it seems like a "bad joke"
>Arthur tells him before he goes "Just wait for the punchline"
>cut to a few weeks later
>Bruce Wayne attending his family's funeral
>notices Arthur in the distance and goes over to him
>Arthur is out of makeup and costume and tries to cheer Bruce up by doing a simple clown routine
>Bruce briefly mentions he doesn't like clowns
>Arthur tries to force a smile on Bruce's face before Alfred quickly drags Bruce away and threatens Arthur
Alfred suddenly realises who Arthur is and questions how he is out of Arkham
>Alfred tries to alert the nearby police but turns and sees Arthur is already gone
>we briefly see how Arthur got out
>whilst being treated by a nurse, Arthur hears the nurse whistle Dick Van Dyke's 'Put on a Happy Face' (a song Arthur uses as an anthem for his followers)
>Arthur is given a nurse's outfit and leaves the building with his followers
>back in the present, Arthur is back in his old apartment, dressing back into his Clown persona
>it's revealed there were new tenants in Arthur's apartment but he has killed them
>Arthur bring a bunch of flowers to his neighbor's door and leaves them
>she sees the flowers left behind, but as she goes to read the note left with them, she's sprayed by what appears to be some kind of toxin
>Arthur gets in the elevator and hears her slowly choke to death
>Arthur gets into a car with some of his followers wearing clown masks
>after a short drive through Gotham, Arthur makes them stop at a set of stairs we saw at the start of the movie
>Arthur leaves his goons in the car
>he performs one last song and dance as the credits play over the routine (Put on a Happy Face)
>no post-credit scene
>no reference to other villains other than Falcone
>Jim Gordon isn't a commissioner but is the head detective on Arthur's case
>120 minute runtime
>most of the movie isn't plot-related, just scenes of Arthur dreaming of a better life as a successful comedian
>a few lines are taken directly from Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns and the Joker graphic novel
I caught wind of a summary of one of the many scripts about two weeks ago and this (just about) lines up with what I heard.
I was super excited after the trailer released but believe me, there's plenty of reason to worry about this. It won't be pretty.
The trailer looked amazing. Not gonna judge it or look for spoilers before it's released. What's the point? Wasn't there a high profile movie script that twitter was dragging and then the movie came out and was amazing? I remember that. Or it was early RT previews or something that were super negative.
Weird question. What's your point?
People are judging a movie based on an old script and final cut hasn't even been made. This forum always says don't trust early twitter impressions... except when they're about media they already love to hate.
you can save $12 or whatever or at least set your expectations properly
Oh God, don't think Phoenix is gonna be able to save this shit, no matter how much he throws at this role.
Is it so much that I want a Joker that is for Batman a reversal of the dynamic between Superman and Luthor?
Like, Joker should be some extremely online edgy social dem fellow who has like 3 podcasts and is all about trying to wrest control of Gotham away from the pesky hands of the Wayne Corporation, who in their eagerness to control all the wealth allowed poverty to blight the city, causing its residents to turn to criminal actions solely in order to survive.
If we're worried he'll be too sympathetic in that portrayal then pattern him after the hosts of cum town
Like, Joker should be some extremely online edgy social dem fellow who has like 3 podcasts and is all about trying to wrest control of Gotham away from the pesky hands of the Wayne Corporation, who in their eagerness to control all the wealth allowed poverty to blight the city, causing its residents to turn to criminal actions solely in order to survive.
If we're worried he'll be too sympathetic in that portrayal then pattern him after the hosts of cum town
Something I will say to those who are worried about the way Joker is portrayed - think V from V for Vendetta and you're on the right track. It's troubling to say the least.
I love how
What a mess
the death of Zazie Beetz's character is like the "cap" on the story and used to almost tie everything up. Like, remember the girl who turned down this crazy guys advances way earlier in the movie? Fuck her she's dead too roll credits.
What a mess
Last edited:
I just read the beat by beat summary.
It lines up with what we saw in the trailer footage. Which means they shot the beats of that leaked script.
The movie will be awful.
DC has actually been better about casting people of color for traditionally white roles in their movies and television, so I don't really see that happening.
This isn't that strange. I don't know what people are freaking out about. Him killing his neighbour is dumb and gratuitous and I hope they cut it, but the rest? It's... fine? Nothing really worth getting mad about IMO.
Oh, for sure, I can definitely see that. It's just odd to me, then, that they haven't been met with the same criticism by angry boys online with an axe to grind. I mean, there was Wonder Woman, but some folks have actually taken her up as a model "trad" girl superhero.
I dunno, Very Online folks are weird.
It sure does own how much these movies hate poor people.
Remember when TDKR tried to makes us sympathize with wall street brokers and other rich snobs instead of the poor and hungry?
Uh this sounds excellent. No clue why people were bitching about this.
I recall the backlash to WW by those people was immense.
This movie was made for you bro!!
It definitely was, but the dust always settles somewhere. The more ideological wing of the reactionary crowd these days benefits mostly by turning progressive terminology and iconography into propaganda for their own. They also ended up coming around on the actress because she's former IDF.
I'm really not sure whether to call the backlash with Captain Marvel analogous or not, even though I still see memes about Brie Larson's butt to this day. I also just recalled that a Batwoman actress (which hasn't even premiered yet I think) was bullied off of Twitter. So yeah, I'm willing to concede my point about DC catering to this crowd. Not to mention I just remembered that hated Hollywood leftist James Gunn is directing the next Suicide Squad.
Making Joker an incel-esque character in an origin story is a pretty natural turn of events for this kind of psychopath tbh
It just depends on how the movie frames it, Taxi Driver kind of laid the blueprint for it years ago and is sadly more relevant than ever today. And I hope Todd Phillip's isnt stupid enough to glorify the lead character in this movie, that's what's more worrisome than the script which sounds fine tbh
It just depends on how the movie frames it, Taxi Driver kind of laid the blueprint for it years ago and is sadly more relevant than ever today. And I hope Todd Phillip's isnt stupid enough to glorify the lead character in this movie, that's what's more worrisome than the script which sounds fine tbh
That sounds like it will sink or swim ENTIRELY on execution, and even then it may be an uphill climb.
I definitely saw a lot of backlash for Starfire's casting in Titans and even Ciara Renee as Hawkgirl in The Flash/Legends of Tomorrow. Don't know about Iris and Wally West in The Flash or making Cisco such a prominent character, but I don't really follow those shows. Didn't see much backlash against Jason Mamoa.
I don't know what trad means. D:
This is The Joker to me. Anything that strays too far from this central conceit of the character is not The Joker.
The Joker should also have exactly zero to do with romance. He doesnt care. Even Harley is just a useful, easily manipulated stooge for him to puppet.
Only glanced through it, but what I saw sounds interesting.
It's all about execution though, to judge it now would be silly. I believe in Joaquin
You don't want to, honestly.
Fuck I forgot about Starfire too. Honestly, I haven't been paying much attention to the DC shows, although I clearly should since they seem to be doing better than the movies.
The only redeeming angle to it that I can see is if he's framed horribly by the end and it's meant to show him as completely gone and irredeemable. Even then the execution of this film will need to be spectacular.
It's weird that between Palahniuk and Ellis that these days Palahniuk comes out significantly better-looking, and he's one of those guys who gets into brawl fights while dressed up as Santa
That summary repeatedly states him as being insane or going more insane over the course of the film and manipulating Gotham. This doesn't sound like you're supposed to walk out of the theater thinking he's a hero.
This sounds fucking terrible lol
I love how her death is somehow worse than I pictured. I thought it'd be a spur of the moment thing shortly after being rejected. That he goes out of his way to kill her much later is even more problematic...
I got horror movie vibes from that...
I'm not going to lose it over fools who would make this guy a hero because the whole thing goes over their head.
insane isn't used one in that summary. Just that he cracks after his mother's suicide.
He's portrayed as a hero for the lower class citizens of Gotham fighting against the corrupt politicians. His kills are never criticized in the movie.
it definitely comes across like a kick the dog moment. I'm gonna wait to see it thought for myself.
