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ShadowSwordmaster

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,476
Yes the title might be click-baiting, but you should read it.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...that-could-beat-global-warming-climate-change

Everybody gets paralysed by bad news because they feel helpless," says Christiana Figueres, the former UN climate chief who delivered the landmark Paris climate change agreement. "It is so in our personal lives, in our national lives and in our planetary life."

But it is becoming increasingly clear that it does not need to be all bad news: a series of fast-moving global megatrends, spurred by trillion-dollar investments, indicates that humanity might be able to avert the worst impacts of global warming. From trends already at full steam, including renewable energy, to those just now hitting the big time, such as mass-market electric cars, to those just emerging, such as plant-based alternatives to meat, these trends show that greenhouse gas emissions can be halted.

"If we were seeing linear progress, I would say good, but we're not going to make it in time," says Figueres, now the convener of the Mission 2020 initiative, which warns that the world has only three years to get carbon emissions on a downward curve and on the way to beating global warming. "But the fact is we are seeing progress that is growing exponentially, and that is what gives me the most reason for hope."

No one is saying the battle to avert catastrophic climate change – floods, droughts, famine, mass migrations – has been won. But these megatrends show the battle has not yet been lost, and that the tide is turning in the right direction. "The important thing is to reach a healthy balance where we recognise that we are seriously challenged, because we really have only three years left to reach the tipping point," says Figueres. "But at the same time, the fact is we are already seeing many, many positive trends."
Michael Liebreich, the founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, agrees. "The good news is we are way better than we thought we could be. We are not going to get through this without damage. But we can avoid the worst. I am optimistic, but there is a long way to go."

Also cautiously hopeful is climate economist Nicholas Stern at the London School of Economics. "These trends are the start of something that might be enough – the two key words are 'start' and 'might'." He says the global climate negotiations, continuing this week in Germany and aiming to implement the Paris deal, are crucial: "The acceleration embodied in the Paris agreement is going to be critical."
A lot more in the link.
 

Stuart

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
785
No mention of population growth.

As a vegetarian, I don't realistically think most people will ever switch their diet, so am hopeful for the imitation meats. Perhaps if they undercut on price it will take off.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,350
At this point it feels a lot less like preventing the disastrous future cause by global climate change and a lot more like weakening its impact. It's coming one way or the other but maybe we can manage it somewhat.
 

Lime

Banned for use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,266
A lot of these technologies are predicated on economic access to them and with our current system that means that only the wealthy and privileged will be able to use them. While global warming is the biggest threat to all societies, I'm afraid that our contemporary problems like huge wealth inequality will not be solved, but instead be exacerbated by the coming catastrophe and the solutions will only be available to those with money.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,567
Seven whole megatrends sounds a little overwhelming, to be honest. Hit me up again when you've got it whittled down to, say, one weird trick to beat global warming.
 

Stanng243

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,242
While some of these sound great, i can't see 1 and 4 taking off, at least in the U.S. I've never found a meat replacement I liked, and quite frankly I have no interest in even trying anymore. I prefer to get my meat locally, from farms I know, but I will never give up eating meat. And given the amount of people I know with classic cars, and the lack of facilities for electric cars, I can't see them being adopted for a long time.
 
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ShadowSwordmaster

ShadowSwordmaster

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,476
While some of these sound great, i can't see 1 and 4 taking off, at least in the U.S. I've never found a meat replacement I liked, and quite frankly I have no interest in even trying anymore. I prefer to get my meat locally, from farms I know, but I will never give up eating meat. And given the amount of people I know with classic cars, and the lack of facilities for electric cars, I can't see them being adopted for a long time.
One of the main problems with the electric cars is support, which states in the United States are working on fixing.
 
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ShadowSwordmaster

ShadowSwordmaster

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,476
Other than 2 malls by me, I've never seen any recharging stations. For some reason, Electric cars just don't seem as fun to me. If I had the option, I'd take a gas powered over electric any day.
Where do you live? Most recharging stations usually appear in more city centers or by highways. There are a lot in Boise, Idaho.
 

Stanng243

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,242
Where do you live? Most recharging stations usually appear in more city centers or by highways. There are a lot in Boise, Idaho.
A smaller city in upstate NY. The only places I've ever seen recharging stations were at malls in Albany NY. Granted, I don't look for them, because I don't know anyone who drives an electric car.
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
Climate change action that really bites, and I'm talking about people losing their homes or jobs en mass, will to have to be forced upon people unless we wait until real catastrophes are happening.

Moreover, what I see is a bunch of industries and companies working the system for handouts. Why is there no international open source research team pushing things forward? Like if a meteor was headed to earth, would we leave that in the hands of some billionaires and their companies? Would we be letting people patent anti meteor technology?
 

KaladinSB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
496
Climate change action that really bites, and I'm talking about people losing their homes or jobs en mass, will to have to be forced upon people unless we wait until real catastrophes are happening.

Moreover, what I see is a bunch of industries and companies working the system for handouts. Why is there no international open source research team pushing things forward? Like if a meteor was headed to earth, would we leave that in the hands of some billionaires and their companies? Would we be letting people patent anti meteor technology?

I'm not sure I follow. Pushing what things forward?
 

LorentzFactor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
696
I believe in the recent national geographic documentary, it was said that having a national vegetarian day once a week would be enough to offset all those emissions from Food industry. I feel like advocating for just one meat-free day a week would be much more reasonable than counting on people switching it out for plant-based alternatives entirely.
 

sersteven

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,205
Philadelphia
The food issue is legit. As we get to non-animal based replica's of the real thing, I can't see people going back when you put cost/eco friendliness/convenience into it. If any of you haven't had one, go out and try one of those beyond burger things. I'm a huge meat eater, and love me some beef, but man, I was suprised. Super tasty and legit.
 

Stanng243

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,242
To be fair, I've ever only seen 2 types of electric cars. Those small enough to be worthless, and those too expensive to be practical. Given that most of my family has needs for larger vehicles, a small car makes no sense. An expensive electric car puts it out of most people's price range. Last I knew, there wasn't an electric car that could go 8 hours on a highway with only a 5 minute stop, which is what I do a lot.
I believe in the recent national geographic documentary, it was said that having a national vegetarian day once a week would be enough to offset all those emissions from Food industry. I feel like advocating for just one meat-free day a week would be much more reasonable than counting on people switching it out for plant-based alternatives entirely.
I'm not usually politically active, but to prevent something heinous like a vegetarian day from happening, i would become active.
 
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Amirai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
159
Happy to hear some good news, thanks for the link!
For some reason, Electric cars just don't seem as fun to me. If I had the option, I'd take a gas powered over electric any day.
So they are more prevalent than i thought. It's still a non-issue to me though. Anyone who gets one in my family would be laughed at. For better or worse, they don't carry a positive connotation with anyone I know.
The idea that electric cars aren't fun is outdated. Technology has progressed. You wouldn't think computers are slow because at one point in the past the best the world had was a computer that used vacuum tubes, right? Just like you can't judge the performance of a gasoline-powered car by the type of energy it uses (like a Volkswagen bus), not all electric cars are underpowered either. A Tesla with ludicrous mode can 0-60 in under three seconds, one of them at 2.5. That's not just supercar speed, the faster model held the crown for fastest accelerating currently produced production car in the world for a while, and number 3 ever made. That's Veyron-level acceleration, which is a car that costs over a million dollars and costs 20 grand just to get its oil changed. I seriously doubt anyone in your family would still be laughing if you took them for a drive and showed them what it could do.
 

Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
I believe in the recent national geographic documentary, it was said that having a national vegetarian day once a week would be enough to offset all those emissions from Food industry. I feel like advocating for just one meat-free day a week would be much more reasonable than counting on people switching it out for plant-based alternatives entirely.
If I go a day without eating meat, I tend to eat more meat than usual the day afterwards.
 

Stanng243

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,242
Happy to hear some good news, thanks for the link!


The idea that electric cars aren't fun is outdated. Technology has progressed. You wouldn't think computers are slow because at one point in the past the best the world had was a computer that used vacuum tubes, right? Just like you can't judge the performance of a gasoline-powered car by the type of energy it uses (like a Volkswagen bus), not all electric cars are underpowered either. A Tesla with ludicrous mode can 0-60 in under three seconds, one of them at 2.5. That's not just supercar speed, the faster model held the crown for fastest accelerating currently produced production car in the world for a while, and number 3 ever made. That's Veyron-level acceleration, which is a car that costs over a million dollars and costs 20 grand just to get its oil changed. I seriously doubt anyone in your family would still be laughing if you took them for a drive and showed them what it could do.
The only thing I've heard about Teslas is that they are ridiculously expensive. Something like 30k is what I remember. I'm uninformed on electric cars. I'm not going to deny that.
 

perfectchaos007

It's Happening
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,233
Texas
The only thing I've heard about Teslas is that they are ridiculously expensive. Something like 30k is what I remember. I'm uninformed on electric cars. I'm not going to deny that.
15 years ago when electric/hybrid cars started coming out the main gripe was they were more expensive to buy and repair than regular vehicles.
Present day, electric/hybrid cars are still more expensive to buy and repair than regular vehicles.
Until that changes, cars that get decent gas mileage (but aren't electric/hybrid) will be the best sellers. I have a car that gets 30mpg hwy and I'm happy with that. It cost me $18K which is way less than a Tesla
 

Amirai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
159
The only thing I've heard about Teslas is that they are ridiculously expensive. Something like 30k is what I remember. I'm uninformed on electric cars. I'm not going to deny that.
Yeah, I posted right after you did and missed the part about being more expensive, which is true, but as I understand it they often have rebates to help with the cost and can be cheaper to own, which counteracts the initial cost somewhat in the long run. In addition, the technology is getting cheaper and will soon be at the same price level or even cheaper than gas powered cars.
 
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MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
So they are more prevalent than i thought. It's still a non-issue to me though. Anyone who gets one in my family would be laughed at. For better or worse, they don't carry a positive connotation with anyone I know.

Sounds like wannabe gear heads who have no idea how car performance works IMO.

Even 20 years ago when there was only really the Prius and other economy cars around, most people with any sense were getting excited about the prospect of electric sports cars.

The energy storage to torque/horsepower ratio is something like 90% vs. 45%.

I love combustion engines and have always been a huge gear head, but they honestly are a very outdated technology with a lot of waste, even in the 'fun' department.

Biggest problem is that the market for sports cars in general has shrinked a crazy amount which is why not very many makers are focusing on affordable mass market models, combustion engine or otherwise.
 

drtomoe123

Member
Nov 1, 2017
259
the Bay Area
I love seeing articles that frame the current situation like this. Things may be slow moving, but I think people as a whole are starting to understand the connection between their own individual lives and the bigger world -- people are learning that they actually have some form of control! That mechanism may be slow starting, but I just know it's leading somewhere good (for everyone -- humans, nature, whatevs).
 

evilromero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,372
While some of these sound great, i can't see 1 and 4 taking off, at least in the U.S. I've never found a meat replacement I liked, and quite frankly I have no interest in even trying anymore. I prefer to get my meat locally, from farms I know, but I will never give up eating meat. And given the amount of people I know with classic cars, and the lack of facilities for electric cars, I can't see them being adopted for a long time.
So it's all about you and something you find inconvenient standing in the way of positive progress. Got it. You realize you are part of the problem if we're going by ways we could readily reduce carbon emissions (and preserve clean water)? While I understand why you don't support this aspect of helping to prevent global catastrophe, my answer would be that sometimes you just have to do things that may seem hard (to you) for the greater good. Can't believe I even have to say that.
 

Amirai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
159
While some of these sound great, i can't see 1 and 4 taking off, at least in the U.S. I've never found a meat replacement I liked, and quite frankly I have no interest in even trying anymore. I prefer to get my meat locally, from farms I know, but I will never give up eating meat.

Also, if you can't give up eating meat, it still helps to reduce the amount you eat and have types that have less of an impact on the environment more often (less beef in particular).
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
I'm not sure I follow. Pushing what things forward?

energy transition/transformation.

We transfer wealth to big corporations to fund proprietary research. It is inefficient (possibly regressive), gives the benefits to private owners, and inhibits scientific collaborations: public Research is for the betterment of society, private research is not. Further, we give them money to build infrastructure which they then profit from. It turns renewable energy, electric cars, batteries, etc into another lobby group like big pharma, the oil industry, the sugar lobby, etc. whose goal is the transfer of wealth from public to private.

Companies do not pursue research that benefits the world but hurts profitability.

If you want to see the body count privately funded research can have, google 'Harvard sugar scandal'.
 

KaladinSB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
496
energy transition/transformation.

We transfer wealth to big corporations to fund proprietary research. It is inefficient (possibly regressive), gives the benefits to private owners, and inhibits scientific collaborations: public Research is for the betterment of society, private research is not. Further, we give them money to build infrastructure which they then profit from. It turns renewable energy, electric cars, batteries, etc into another lobby group like big pharma, the oil industry, the sugar lobby, etc. whose goal is the transfer of wealth from public to private.

Companies do not pursue research that benefits the world but hurts profitability.

If you want to see the body count privately funded research can have, google 'Harvard sugar scandal'.

We have subsidized renewables to get them installed and have carbon credits which also help the market, but we also do a lot of government funded research that is used for the public benefit in this area. Past heads of DOE have been pretty supportive of the initiatives. I do see this funding being shrunk considerably during this administration though.

There are a lot of public institutions doing the research in the US and in Europe but one example in America is the National Renewables Energy Laboratory. Nrel.gov
 

Fur_Q

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
30
If I shit in a lunchbox and burn the methane off with my lighter would that help.
But seriously aren't we at the point of no return regarding catastrophic effects. We'll survive obviously, but shits going downhill now, tipping point has been reached and surpassed.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
While some of these sound great, i can't see 1 and 4 taking off, at least in the U.S. I've never found a meat replacement I liked, and quite frankly I have no interest in even trying anymore. I prefer to get my meat locally, from farms I know, but I will never give up eating meat. And given the amount of people I know with classic cars, and the lack of facilities for electric cars, I can't see them being adopted for a long time.
Meat replacements nowadays can be so close that the difference is hardly noticeable and whatever difference there is that might seem offputting at first is just a matter of getting used to new things and learning how to use the stuff. I'm sure there were plenty of foods in the past that you didn't like that you do now or you started liking after you learned to use them properly.

Buying meat locally does absolutely nothing to combat climate change and the rest of the environmental catastrophes meat production is (one of) the main culprit(s) of.

Besides, you probably shouldn't even be eating meat as much as you do if you are an average meat eating person, even if you do decide not to cut meat from you diet. A majority of proteins should come from plant based sources, or at least is far healthier than meat.
 

Magni

Member
So they are more prevalent than i thought. It's still a non-issue to me though. Anyone who gets one in my family would be laughed at. For better or worse, they don't carry a positive connotation with anyone I know.

That's too bad. I don't own a car, and if I were to buy one, I'm not sure I'd get an electric one (due to cost, not "fun-ness") , but emissions would definitely be at the top of my priorities. I've been seeing more Teslas (and whatever the electric BMWs are called) around Tokyo though (and whenever I'm in SF for business, there's seemingly one on every block). So at least not everyone has that mindset thankfully.

What would it take to change your and your family's opinion of electric cars?
 

Buran

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
365
The rise of renewables and the electric car sales is converging, and will send waves along the entire landscape due the disruptive nature of both technolgies, as happened with Internet or the mobile phones. Currently some bids for solar produced electricity fell lower than 3 cents x Kw/hour and fossil and nuclear can't compete with those prices (which will fall even more). In the auto industry there's a resistance in traditional manufactures due EV had lower maintenance, so they have aversion to the unavoidable loses in their business... But some of the strongest companies in the EV market lack links with the making of vehicles with Internal Combustion Engines, and (specially Tesla and BYD) they are ahead of the competition and are eroding share from the traditional carmakers, which in a veracious reaction of fear are reacting with their own electrification programs.

I think that in barely 5 years we will see a tidal wave in the auto industry that will shake the landscape as deeply as the release of the Nokia's 3310 in Europe at the beguinning of the 200's or the iPhone in 2007. My current car is the last one I'll have with an ICE and I'll probably replace it for a EV around the year of 2022. But much sooner that then we will see the Model 3, iPace, Q6 e-Tron, Elaine, Mission E, MB EQ, Polestars and others flooding the market.