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TheFireman

Banned
Dec 22, 2017
3,918
1527751630564.jpg

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I've always wondered why Octillery was the evolution of Remoraid... now it makes sense.

Those designs are so much better. I almost wonder if they got late into development, realized they couldn't have a gun in a Pokemon game, but also didn't have time to swap it out for something cooler.

Ironically, after Splatoon, they almost certainly could do this design if the games were released today.
 

Axe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,752
United Kingdom
Just discovered that if you wait on the title screen you'll eventually get a little minigame where you run across the screen as Pikachu and have to jump to collect music notes. If you collect enough you'll eventually find Jigglypuff. You'll go back to the title screen, but the floating leaves(?) on the title screen change into music notes.

IgQLTAh.png
 

ultra bawl

User requested ban
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,137
This is amazing, so many cool scrapped designs that haven't come back later on for some reason. Thank god we were spared from babypocalypse too, good call GF.

Would love to take a look at the demo myself...

By the way I need this guy like yesterday
FdM09hz.png
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Fully obsessed with this. I actually would love if the returns to old regions would introduce some of these designs, maybe as rare Pokemon thought to be extinct, or protected species being reintroduced to the region.
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,639
I wonder if it was intentional to have Ditto, a glob of DNA material, evolve into what is clearly a condom.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Imo, I think the change in direction was probably for the best given the system it was on. They struggled to fit both Kanto and Johto onto one cartridge. If they followed through on making the game encompass all of Japan, it wouldn't have been much bigger than the map here, which is about the same size as the original Kanto.
This region design is mostly finalized. While its an early build, its obvious all they needed to do was finish the connections and make it more presentable. This project was very mich feasible.
Didn't know Bill was a State Alchemist.
There's also a steel Ditto Evo that looks like the Helmet of Alphonse's armor. Pokemon was secretly FMA all along.
Just discovered that if you wait on the title screen you'll eventually get a little minigame where you run across the screen as Pikachu and have to jump to collect music notes. If you collect enough you'll eventually find Jigglypuff. You'll go back to the title screen, but the floating leaves on the title screen change into music notes.
That makes the GSC title sequence a cute little inside joke then.
I prefer those designs, like a goddamn tank.
Serioisly. Also Tangela got robbed, it was basically Gen 2s Roselia, with a baby and evo.
 

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
This is incredible, TCRF hit the jackpot. The designs are a mixed bag, some I wish were real and others are pretty terrible, but it's still crazy to see how many designs were altered or would go on to reappear in another form later on. I think my favorites are the cat-like 2 stage evolution line right after baby Meowth and the voodoo doll/jiangshi line, those need to be real!
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
This is incredible, TCRF hit the jackpot. The designs are a mixed bag, some I wish were real and others are pretty terrible, but it's still crazy to see how many designs were altered or would go on to reappear in another form later on. I think my favorites are the cat-like 2 stage evolution line right after baby Meowth and the voodoo doll/jiangshi line, those need to be real!
Those 2 HAVE to be Skitty and the shuppet line.
 

chaobreaker

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,541
These town designs are way better than what we got in the final version.

DehNYanV0AAR_og
DehNYkIU0AAKBdB
DehNY4wVMAAntOZ
DehNZVyU0AED_8Y


Imagine all this instead of Kanto-looking towns with padogas.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,032
There's so much here. This is crazy, it's an entire alternative version of Gold and Silver. I never expected there to be so much
 

Axe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,752
United Kingdom
I disagree about the layouts being better, even in the demo it's very annoying to navigate the maps. But the tilesets seem more detailed than what we eventually got in the final release.
 

jwhit28

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,048
Gamefreak should do a whole generation where they just add evolutions to preexisting lines. Maybe make lines longer to 5 or 6 stages.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,606
When will the color sprites be released? Man this may be one of the most crucial betas to EVER leak I feel. O_o Hope Bulbapedia will allow these all to be documented on the site.
 

Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,991
I didn't realize how much I didn't care for Tangrowth's design until seeing this alternate evo.

The shark looks amazing too.
 

Pokémon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,679
Just tested the patched rom on my Everdrive and it works like a charm on the Super Game Boy 2. Think I am gonna stream it later and then upload it to youtube. Someone already said it earlier but this is more hype than the Let's Go games lol.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
These town designs are way better than what we got in the final version.

DehNYanV0AAR_og
DehNYkIU0AAKBdB
DehNY4wVMAAntOZ
DehNZVyU0AED_8Y


Imagine all this instead of Kanto-looking towns with padogas.
The ruins of Alph are a Tower that can only be accessed with Waterfall. In the middle of a town. HOW
I disagree about the layouts being better, even in the demo it's very annoying to navigate the maps. But the tilesets seem more detailed than what we eventually got in the final release.
Routes aren't finalized and neither are the connections, but town layouts look to be complete. Why the hell did they never go through with this, its just beyond me.
 

Oswen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
806
Didn't Umbreon dex description in some games mention its poison rings or something?
That's probably a leftover from the fact it was originally a Poison type, amazing find.
 

Robin64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,623
England
Didn't Umbreon dex description in some games mention its poison rings or something?
That's probably a leftover from the fact it was originally a Poison type, amazing find.

Sun: "When this Pokémon becomes angry, its pores secrete a poisonous sweat, which it sprays at its opponent's eyes."

Gold/Leaf: "When agitated, this POKéMON protects itself by spraying poisonous sweat from its pores. "
 

Burning Justice

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
500
Holy crap. Did not ever expect this to happen.

Really want to take a look at that ROM, but it's really late, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
Very cool, many of the sprites remind me that the roots of the Pokemon IP were much more playful and dart that where we are now.
 

chaobreaker

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,541
The ruins of Alph are a Tower that can only be accessed with Waterfall. In the middle of a town. HOW

Routes aren't finalized and neither are the connections, but town layouts look to be complete. Why the hell did they never go through with this, its just beyond me.

The final games were already chock full of content that Game Freak couldn't fit in the cartridge without Iwata stepping in. I suspect a lot of copy and pasting of tile assets was the only option they had as development went on. I doubt cutting Kanto would have allowed these locales either.
 

Akai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,045
Pretty crazy find and I can definitely make out some designs that were used later or that were inspired by them.

You have to wonder how many designs Gamefreak made that never made it into their games. I'd love to see an official spreadsheet.
 

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
Those 2 HAVE to be Skitty and the shuppet line.

I can see the connection to the Shuppet (though I still want a jiangshi pokemon!) but I'm not seeing the connection to the Skitty line. Based on their designs these pokemon seem to be sound-based: the first form's tail looks like a tuning fork and the 2nd form's tail looks like a bell. Plus the crescent on the 2nd form makes me think they'd be dark type. The only thing Skitty/Delcatty have in common are being cats.
 

ERAsaur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
750
Here was my planned OT for the controlled release, it's pretty redundant now:

Important Note: We do not discuss how to obtain or distribute ROMs on Era. Don't make the mods do more work than they have to.

Well, hell reached a brisk 5 degrees this month and cats and dogs finally put aside their differences: the famous Gold and Silver demo actually surfaced online! And it had debug options!

AjkedOL.png

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For 21 years this thing has eluded everyone, the only remnants of it being a few blog posts, offscreen pictures, VHS footage, and fanart. Well, here it is in all its glory. I personally spent 15 of those years studying every little bit of footage and info trying to piece together what might have been in there, and I was actually right about a few things!

So enough talking, I know what you want to see. Every Pokemon sprite in the game:

V8XW09z.png


This game may have been based on Blue JP, the same game that became our Red and Blue. There's a lot of sprite reusage but you'll notice a few differences. Fun fact, the Pikachu, Chansey, and Mew sprites were used elsewhere first; the first two being in the Game Boy Camera and the latter being used in the Mew distribution ROM in Japan years ago.

The names of these unused Pokemon? Glad you asked!

152 Happa (Chikorita)
153 Hanamogura (replaced by Bayleef)
154 Hanaryuu (Meganium)
155 Honōguma (replaced by Cyndaquil, may have inspired Teddiursa)
156 Volbear (replaced by Quilava)
157 Dynabear (replaced by Typhlosion)
158 Kurusu (replaced by Totodile, may have inspired Popplio)
159 Aqua (replaced by Croconaw, may have inspired Brionne)
160 Aquaria (replaced by Feraligatr, may have inspired Primarina, especially with the "-aria" part)
161 Hoothoot
162 Bohboh (early Noctowl)
163 Pachimei (Mareep)
164 Flaaffy
165 Ampharos
166 Mikon (baby Vulpix)
167 Monja (baby Tangela, evolutions added to a single stage grass type may have inspired Budew/Roserade)
168 Jaranra (evolved Tangela, may have inspired Tangrowth)
169 Haneei (early Mantine)
170 Pukuu (Qwilfish)
171 Shibirefugu (evolved Qwilfish, may have inspired Stunfisk)
172 Pichu
173 Cleffa
174 Igglybuff
175 Quagsire
176 Natu
177 Xatu
178 Gyopin (baby Goldeen)
179 Marill
180 Manbo-1 ("Sunfish-1", like the naming system seen in Gen 7's starter leak)
181 Ikari (evolves from Manbo-1, may be the namesake of Lake of Rage)
182 Grotess (evolves from Ikari, may have inspired Huntail)
183 X-ing (Crobat, evolves at level 44)
184 Para (baby Paras… yup)
185 Kokumo (Spinarak)
186 Twohead (early Ariados)
187 Yoroidori (Skarmory, not the Silver mascot like was theorized)
188 Animon (Ditto evolution, evolved with a Metal Coat trade and still only knows Transform)
189 Hinarzu (baby Doduo)
190 Sunny (Sunflora)
191 Paon (Phanpy)
192 Donphan
193 Twinz (baby Girafarig)
194 Girafarig (OH DEAR GOD THAT FACE)
195 Painter (Smeargle)
196 Kohnya (baby Meowth)
197 Rinrin (female only)
198 Berurun (evolves from Rinrin, not programmed female only)
199 Politoed
200 Slowking
201 Unown (not on this sheet, same sprites as final. Y and Z are swapped)
202 Ledyba
203 Mistuboshi (early Ledian)
204 Puchicorn (baby Ponyta)
205 Espeon (evolved with "Heart Stone")
206 Umbreon (was Poison type, evolved with "Poison Stone")
207 Turban (no data relation to the Slow line, but it's the fan theorized "Brofish")
208 Betobaby (baby Grimer)
209 Remoraid
210 Octillery
211 Gongu (early Tyrogue, still evolves into all 3)
212 Hitmontop
213 Puddi (baby Growlithe)
214 Haneko (early Hoppip, slight name difference)
215 Poponeko (early Skiploom, slight name difference)
216 Wataneko (early Jumpluff, slight name difference)
217 Baririina (baby Mr. Mime, may have inspired Mime Jr.. Name is identical to one on the internal Gen 1 Poll)
218 Lip (early Smoochum)
219 Elebaby (early Elekid, male only)
220 Magby (just like Bart)
221 Bellossom (evolves with "Poison Stone")
222 Tsubomitto (Weepinbell alternate evolution, evolves with "Poison Stone")
223 Miltank
224 Bombseeker (Water/Fire)
225 Gift (early Delibird)
226 Kotora
227 Raitora (evolves from Kotora)
228 Madame (evolves from Farfetch'd at Level 24)
229 Norowara
230 Kyonpan (evolves from Norowara at Level 1)
231 Murkrow
232 Happy (early Blissey, evolves from Chansey at Level 45)
233 Scizors (early Scizor, evolves from Scyther at Level 41)
234 Plux (evolves from Pinsir at Level 42. May have inspired Heracross.)
235 Devil (early Houndour)
236 Houndoom
237 Wolfman (may have inspired Swinub)
238 Warwolf (may have inspired Piloswine, evolves from Wolfman at level 25)
239 Porygon2 (early design based on Pon de Lion, mascot of the Mister Donuts chain and a nice lawsuit)
240 Namehru (evolves from Lickitung at Level 32, may have inspired Lickilicky)
241 Steelix (evolves from Onix at Level 38)
242 Kingdra (evolves with a Dragon Scale trade)
243 Rai (early Raikou, may have inspired Luxray)
244 En (early Entei)
245 Sui (early Suicune… ed...ward...) [May 31st note: Glad I wasn't the only person who thought this lol]
246 Sneasel (what)
247 Ho-Oh
248 Togepi
249 Snubbull
250 Tail (early Aipom)
251 Leafy/Leafeon (evolves from Eevee with a Leaf Stone. May have inspired Leafeon)
It should be noted that a lot of types seem wrong (Ho-Oh is pure flying despite knowing Fire moves, the baby Vulpix was water despite knowing fire moves) and there may be some evolution errors (Eevee evolves into Squirtle at Lv. 33). Types in this build should be taken with a grain of salt, as should the base stats which seem to be rough ballparks or not touched from the template at all (50 across)

Soooo… yeah. A lot of changes were made before the final. There's even some cameos from later generations in there!


Next up: the region.
9qqAtjQ.png

It appears that Game Freak wanted most of Japan to be the region in Gen 2 originally. This map is huge compared to the real-life ground the final Johto covers. You might be thinking "Well if that was so big, why did they have problems putting Kanto in the game?"

Well…
HwlLnLa.png


That town in the bottom right? That's Kanto.

...

I'm not kidding. That's Kanto. It's condensed into one town in what I presume was a fit of madness.
Most of the region is unfinished. There's a slight difference between the two, a town in the lower left on the Town Map is missing and the Town Map is missing the dead trees route. There's routes that are very visibly in a rough draft stage, most non-demo related NPC text is missing, no cave entrances work, about half of the collision data is missing, and only the right half has working tall grass (the stuff on the left side blocks normal walking permissions). Several warps are weird as well, most notably the gyms' 2F that have a doormat but can only be left via an invisible staircase. The train was also completely missing, it seems instead they opted for a boat system.

You can re-enable the nonfunctional grass by starting in the Silent Hills, Route 15, or Route 18 tileset, skipping the loadzones in the gates to keep that tileset, and then going to your route of choice. I discovered this while goofing off and moving South's tileset to Kanto. I noticed that the grass in the surrounding routes no longer worked and then did as I described up there. Yup, it worked, I got half the region working again because I was a dumbass.

Because of this, we can now guess the order of progression, Here is my personal theory (that will be disproved later):
oU3fbgq.png


The demo appears to have some edits done to the world map. That large mountain above Silent Hills shouldn't be there and the "forest" area in the demo itself was added at the very end of the Warp list, implying it was made special for this (and considering how unreadable the entrance is, not surprising).

DJOGcmW.png

It's here, should you play.

Trainers are mostly unfinished, several of them use Gen 1 sprites as placeholders, but there are some very interesting associated names with them:
In order from left to right:

Falkner
Whitney
Bugsy
Morty (uses old name of "Enoki" as Ken Sugimori confirmed)
Okera (no idea)
Jasmine
Blue (no idea if this was Blue as in Gary, Red [Red's overworld sprite is in the Kanto Gym as the leader an this game is based on Blue JP], or some other character entirely)
Gama (no idea)
Rival
Professor Oak (not an intended fight. Uses the Gen 1 placement to display Oak's sprite)
Giovanni (Giovanni's overworld sprite is at the top of the Radio Tower, he was likely involved in the plot)
Protagonist
Bruno
Misty
Lorelei
Lance
Geruge Member♂ (unknown)
Trio (The Trio may have been reused in Crystal as the sages who test you before Suicune)
Trio
Trio
Rocket♀
Youngster
Schoolboy
Hiyokko ("Fledgling") (Make your Undertale jokes here)
Lass
Prodigy
Professional♂ (Seems to be the replacement for the Cooltrainer, which was reverted in the final)
Professional♀
Beauty
PokéManiac
Rocket♂
Gentleman
Teacher♂ (Male teachers were a thing)
Teacher♀
Manchild (no idea)
Bug Catching Boy
Fisher
Swimmer♀
Swimmer♂
Sailor
Super Nerd
Engineer
Rocker
Hiker
Biker
Rock Climber
Burglar
Firebreather
Juggler
Blackbelt
Sportsman
Psychic (name changed slightly)
Kung Fu Master
Fortune Teller
Hooligan
Sage
Medium
Soldier
Geruge Member♀ (unknown)
Kimono Girl
Twins
Geruge Member♂ (duplicate)
Elite Four♂
Elite Four♀
So this list hints at a few things. The demo index order seems to imply that the order of the gyms was:
Falkner
Whitney
Bugsy
Morty
Okera
Jasmine
Blue/Kanto Gym
Gama

With an Elite 4 of
Bruno
Misty
Lorelei
Lance
(and I'm assuming the rival)

One final note, there is actually a way to restore the game's original intro and a patch to do so may be releasing soon.
The protagonist's brother (named Ken) makes an appearance, ending the rumors that Gold's brother was Red. You get an email from Professor Oak telling you to go to his lab, then your rival approaches you outside your house and asks you for what you call your mother (this was semi-unused in the final game, it's used to prevent the Old Man glitch by storing names during Dude's catching tutorial). You walk into the grass and Green stops you, bringing you to the lab like his grandfather did years prior. Green and Oak ask if you two want your starters, and then Oak takes you into the back room where the starters are located. You leave, talk to Green, and then Oak gives you and your rival Pokedexes. Your rival challenges you and unfortunately his team is missing so he challenges you with either garbage or things meant for demo trainers. If you somehow manage to beat him, you leave and your mother gives you 6 Pokeballs and the Pokegear. The script ends here and you're left with the normal demo again.

So, yeah. I'm still reeling from this. 15 years I've been researching this thing and here it is. I'm very glad I was on the team during this and I even made a few discoveries myself (the non-demo wild grass, the Blue=Red connection, Sunny's backsprite having the shiny animation hardcoded in, and Hoothoot having the early footage fade-in effect hardcoded in). Enjoy!

...but then it leaked out early. Oh well. It was an extreme honor to be able to work on this and I'll still be helping out in the meantime.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
I'm guessing that happiness wasn't programmed into the games, judging by all the babies and evos being dealt with by levels instead.
 

BGBW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,273
Routes aren't finalized and neither are the connections, but town layouts look to be complete. Why the hell did they never go through with this, its just beyond me.
Wasn't there a story about how Gold and Silver ended up being bloated so they couldn't fit on a cart so Iwata came along and managed to compress it all (and in turn got Kanto squeezed in there as well).

Perhaps before Iwata came along the first step they tried was reducing the number of unique town graphics.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
Shame they scrapped some of these designs, there's some sweet stuff in there
Some rom hackers are gonna have a field day with them
 
Oct 27, 2017
479
I always knew Pinser should have had a steel coat evo!

Just noticed that duck is holding a stick and is totally a Farfetched Evo

Octillary makes way more sense with the helmet and the tentacles posed like tank tteads.
 
OP
OP
The Shadow Knight
Oct 26, 2017
2,430
Here was my planned OT for the controlled release, it's pretty redundant now:



...but then it leaked out early. Oh well. It was an extreme honor to be able to work on this and I'll still be helping out in the meantime.

If you could PM me a copy paste able version of that I'll replace the current OT with it. Full credit given of course.
 

ERAsaur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
750
Also should note, the game isn't finished and has several bugs that crash it. I don't want to see anyone calling Game Freak "lazy devs" because a proto cart from 2 years before the game came out has bugs in it.
 

Aveyn Knight

Member
Nov 29, 2017
304
UK
Wow, there's so much to take in. A big thanks to everyone who made this possible! I agree: this was a (if not the) holy grail of Pokemon history.

Ahhh, Jasmine's old design looks so cool.
 

Crashman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,092
Huh. My instincts say its fake, but I guess its real?

There are a lot of cut baby Pokemon it seems. And a bunch of them are kind of the same design wise, yet just smaller, like Meowth's, Grimer's, and Ponyta's. One thing that strikes me as odd is that the three beta Pokemon from that one magazine, which included the beta-Tyranitar don't appear to be there.

Farfetch'd fabled lost evolution being S&M inspired is kind of funny though.