• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
I have... issues with Toy Story 4 (Buzz would not leave Woody because his voice box told him to, what the fuck), but Toy Story 4 handles its villain redemption masterful. Gabby Gabby is obsessed with wanting to be loved by a child and thinks that her problem is that her voice box is broken. She wants to steal Woody's voice box because then she thinks people will like her. Her bad thing she does in the story is that she kidnaps the spork toy to try to lure Woody to get his voice box. Not a good thing to do at all, but you know... Not nearly on the level of Obito's actions. Woody eventually relents and let's her have his voice box in exchange for getting back the spork toy. Afterwards, Gabby Gabby activates her voice box to get the attention of the child she's been desperately wanting to be owned by for years and... the child is bored with her. Gabby Gabby is devastated, but Woody, since he's developed into being one of the most caring characters in mainstream movies at this point, goes over to comfort her and say that Bonnie will care for her. On the way to Bonnie, Gabby Gabby notices a scared lost child and decides (despite her extreme fear of being rejected again) to help the lost child by comforting them by being nearby. The child sees Gabby Gabby being lost and decides to be brave to help the doll and goes and finds a security officer to help find their own parents and the child develops a strong attachment to Gabby Gabby and Gabby Gabby has a happy ending as a heroic character.

It's a really beautiful villain redemption arc and definitely the best moment in the movie, but what really makes it work is that... she didn't do that horrible of stuff. Gabby Gabby is not kind to the spork toy or to Woody and does bad things to them, but she's not trying to kill them. She's not committing horrific crimes like Obito or other cartoon villains. She's not a good person/toy but she is definitely redeemable. A lot of media feels the need to raise the stakes impossibly high to be exciting but then wants to redeem the villain to send a good message to children or to be more interesting (Naruto and Steven Universe being major examples here). And I just don't think stakes involving dozens to millions of lives and redeemable villains are really compatible. It comes off as really weird when Naruto redeems a villain after they committed horrific crimes against humanity. Toy Story 4 can redeem Gabby Gabby because, while she's not a good person at first, she's not like some mass murdering terrorist like Naruto villains could be.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,033
Gabby Gabby's whole arc actually made me tear up. It's odd, because I didn't even do that for Toy Story 3.

I think you said it best. She's not an outright monster like other Toy Story villain, she's an extremely hurt person who is trying to live out what she thinks is her one grand opportunity at a better life. She isn't malicious, nor does she even want to hurt Woody, and she becomes sympathetic through her kinder personality.
 

BlackFyre

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,430
Absolutely loved this film. This is all about Woody and how his goodness translates to encourage good in others.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,954
North Carolina
I freakin' loved Toy Story 4 in general. Fantastic movie. I cried. It was very touching and I enjoyed that the trailers I saw had nothing to do with Gabby. Made it all the more surprising how they went with it.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
I have... issues with Toy Story 4 (Buzz would not leave Woody because his voice box told him to, what the fuck), but Toy Story 4 handles its villain redemption masterful. Gabby Gabby is obsessed with wanting to be loved by a child and thinks that her problem is that her voice box is broken. She wants to steal Woody's voice box because then she thinks people will like her. Her bad thing she does in the story is that she kidnaps the spork toy to try to lure Woody to get his voice box. Not a good thing to do at all, but you know... Not nearly on the level of Obito's actions. Woody eventually relents and let's her have his voice box in exchange for getting back the spork toy. Afterwards, Gabby Gabby activates her voice box to get the attention of the child she's been desperately wanting to be owned by for years and... the child is bored with her. Gabby Gabby is devastated, but Woody, since he's developed into being one of the most caring characters in mainstream movies at this point, goes over to comfort her and say that Bonnie will care for her. On the way to Bonnie, Gabby Gabby notices a scared lost child and decides (despite her extreme fear of being rejected again) to help the lost child by comforting them by being nearby. The child sees Gabby Gabby being lost and decides to be brave to help the doll and goes and finds a security officer to help find their own parents and the child develops a strong attachment to Gabby Gabby and Gabby Gabby has a happy ending as a heroic character.

It's a really beautiful villain redemption arc and definitely the best moment in the movie, but what really makes it work is that... she didn't do that horrible of stuff. Gabby Gabby is not kind to the spork toy or to Woody and does bad things to them, but she's not trying to kill them. She's not committing horrific crimes like Obito or other cartoon villains. She's not a good person/toy but she is definitely redeemable. A lot of media feels the need to raise the stakes impossibly high to be exciting but then wants to redeem the villain to send a good message to children or to be more interesting (Naruto and Steven Universe being major examples here). And I just don't think stakes involving dozens to millions of lives and redeemable villains are really compatible. It comes off as really weird when Naruto redeems a villain after they committed horrific crimes against humanity. Toy Story 4 can redeem Gabby Gabby because, while she's not a good person at first, she's not like some mass murdering terrorist like Naruto villains could be.

Gabby Gabby is also about how one copes when their very identity falls apart.
 

Deleted member 7148

Oct 25, 2017
6,827
Everyone cries at the end of TS4 when Woody leaves the gang, but the scene that turned on the waterworks for me was when Gabby was helping the lost child. I agree, it's the strongest part of the film for sure.

I love how Woody's arc is wrapped up too. He can't get over Andy, being with Bonnie just isn't the same, so he dedicates the rest of his existence helping other toys have the same experience he had with Andy. It's actually kinda beautiful.

and people said Toy Story 4 shouldn't exist.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,591
I thought Toy Story 4 was bad, but Gabby Gabby was good. I think the film would have been better more centered around her arc because it was much stronger than everything else around it.
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
I didn't read OP because I haven't seen the movie yet, but I agree with the thread title. Stakes being too high in every goddamn movie is so annoying.

This is why I love movies like Kiki's Delivery Service, it's just "stuff happens, occasionally a bit of danger".
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,242
Honestly I kinda felt so much of it was treading ground already covered at least once before that I actually found the movie hard to pay attention to. I really zoned out on this one. I've put it on twice in the last week and both times after a half hour I end up picking up my phone or starting doing something else.

I liked the first 3 and can rewatch them happily. Though I think this one being really Woody heavy kinda wore me out too since honestly, I cant stand that character. Film needed a lot more Buzz. I don't think stakes would have made much of an effect on my opinion of it, but could have also been a factor I guess.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,034
Terana
nailed what made it good. she wasn't cartoonishly evil, she had some humanity in her. even if her ending scenario was a bit too convenient/saccharine in execution, i def teared up when she got that resolution and it def made the film.
 

peppermints

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,653
Finally got around to watching this with the kids the other night. They had already seen it in theaters and spoiled what I thought was the whole ending (Woody leaving everyone else and staying with Bo), so I wasn't expecting the ending you described with Gabby Gaby to hit me as hard as it did.

I think most Pixar movies fit the mold you're talking about, though. The only ones I can think of off hand that don't are Toy Story 3 with Lotso and Up with the explorer guy that trains the dogs.

Also, holy smokes the ending scenes in the fair area looked sooo lifelike. Having watched the first Toy Story a few months ago, it's insane how fare we've come in 25 years.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
The whole RV subplot made me crack up, it's so unique and fun and innovative, yet funny and informs the characters and what they want and what they fear.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,033
Finally got around to watching this with the kids the other night. They had already seen it in theaters and spoiled what I thought was the whole ending (Woody leaving everyone else and staying with Bo), so I wasn't expecting the ending you described with Gabby Gaby to hit me as hard as it did.

I think most Pixar movies fit the mold you're talking about, though. The only ones I can think of off hand that don't are Toy Story 3 with Lotso and Up with the explorer guy that trains the dogs.
The Incredibles are huge stakes (for obvious reasons) but so is Wall-E.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,259
Now I kind of wish someone had an Obito figurine in Toy Story 4 that was a ridiculous as his actual anime/manga basis.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
It's much harder to make a good movie with low stakes. Much easier to kill the heroes parents in the first 5 minutes to set up an easy final showdown.

Totoro is the gold standard of what the OP is talking about. A lot of the movie is just about a family moving to a new place and dealing with a sick family member.
 
Oct 28, 2017
27,069
I was all in on Toy Story 4 but that ending makes no sense to me. Even if Woody was no longer Number 1 toy and was relegated to the bottom of the closet him leaving of his own volition just didnt feel right.
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
Fuck toy story 4
Fuck toy story 4

What an awful awful movie. You can trash TLJ, but TS4 has all the issues people spout about that and more.

Gabby's arc was decent, think itd have been better had she found contentment in herself and then during credits roll and scenes she gets picked up by kid. As is, she never really worked on herself and there wasnt growth.

I get her trying again after being rejected arc but I dont know that just...feels weird to have in the same film as Woody realizing he doesnt need a kid to me? Like the movie is destroying the conceptions of the Toyverse, but if the arc is toys finding comfort in themsleves with kid and then villian still need kids instead of being fine with themsleves then getting kid its just...

Off to me?

Fuck toy story 4
Fuck toy story 4
 
Last edited:

Book One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,813
Agreed about Gabby, and it's especially impressive they were able to pull out that redemption from what is one of the creepiest Pixar villain wrappings ever.

As far as Woody's ending goes, I really liked how they led up to his realization, instead of making it just something sudden with very little build up. The entire movie does a great job of leading Woody to that direction piece by piece.
 

GTOAkira

Member
Sep 1, 2018
9,014
I honestly did not really like TS4. Its just weird how Woody keep saying that you should never give up on your kid but then proceed to leave his kid. Heck he even told that to Buzz in the first one and got told that by buzz in 2. My biggest issue was how it felt like a recycling of the past 3 movies and how they barely used any of the main toys. Overall movie was decent but definitely my least favorite toy story.
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,558
I honestly did not really like TS4. Its just weird how Woody keep saying that you should never give up on your kid but then proceed to leave his kid. Heck he even told that to Buzz in the first one and got told that by buzz in 2. My biggest issue was how it felt like a recycling of the past 3 movies and how they barely used any of the main toys. Overall movie was decent but definitely my least favorite toy story.
I'm not understanding your problem. Woody says you should never give up on your kid, and he struggles with the fact that he himself can't get over Andy and feels that he lacks a purpose with Bonnie. At the end of the film he finds purpose in helping other toys find their own "Andy". What's your dilemma here?
 

Aadiboy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,637
Eh, I don't know if Gabby Gabby really earned her redemption. She literally tried to forcibly pull Woody's voice box out, and later held Forky hostage to trade him to Woody for it. Also, Bo implies that she was a crazy domineering psycho, basically Lotso-lite.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,899
I agree with the OP but I also agree with everyone that comparing Toy Story to Naruto was pretty random lol
 

GTOAkira

Member
Sep 1, 2018
9,014
Thats now how I took. It felt more like Woody went on with Bo since bonnie, I actually forgot her name, stop playing with him. Yet at the start on the movie you see the ending of TS3 where andy tells bonnie that woody is the most loyal friend and that he will never give up on anyone. Basically it felt like he gave up on bonnie. Again thats my take on the movie. And it wasnt a bad movie like I still enjoyed it but not as much as 3.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,365
Sid was mean, but just a kid, Stinky Pete and Al were jackasses but mostly just self-absorbed/greedy. Lotso though, was straight up evil, actually he was one of the more depraved villains I've seen in an animated film.
Made sense to have a much more sympathetic and low stakes villain after that guy.
 

diverit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
183
I liked the Gabby Gabby arc, but Woody's one in the movie could've been better. For instance, the movie disconnects Woody from the gang so much that him leaving didn't really give me the emotional impact I know it was striving for. Woody should've had one last hurrah with the gang.
 

GTOAkira

Member
Sep 1, 2018
9,014
Yeah I definitely wished we had seen more of the toys. I think mr Potato and Rex barely had any line. Still really enjoyed Keenu as Kurt Kaboom.
 
OP
OP
ItWasMeantToBe19
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
I liked the Gabby Gabby arc, but Woody's one in the movie could've been better. For instance, the movie disconnects Woody from the gang so much that him leaving didn't really give me the emotional impact I know it was striving for. Woody should've had one last hurrah with the gang.

Well yes, Buzz is terrible in the movie and Jesse is barely in the movie. The end of the movie is Woody moving on from his best friends in Buzz and Jesse to be with his girlfriend and it's like... The relationship is not nearly as good as it should be at the end of the movie because the movie mishandles Buzz and Jesse dramatically.

But Woody and Gabby Gabby are really good in the movie.
 

Middleman

Banned
Jun 14, 2019
928
Agreed. My under 5's can watch this over and over again. I'm not letting them near TS3 anytime soon. That shit traumatised me in my 20's.

Also, yeah Buzz may not have been great, but him breaking kayfabe to blurt out that they need to go back to the antiques store is one of the funniest moments in the series.
 
Apr 21, 2018
6,969
I didn't read OP because I haven't seen the movie yet, but I agree with the thread title. Stakes being too high in every goddamn movie is so annoying.

This is why I love movies like Kiki's Delivery Service, it's just "stuff happens, occasionally a bit of danger".

Studio Ghibli nails this. Both Totoro and Ponyo have low stakes but are wonderful movies for both kids and adults.

My 2 year old niece loves them both and we very (very) often watch them.
 

Milk

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,802
I thought it was pretty fucked up when the toys forced the RV into a carnival full of people tbh

Poor dad
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,592
Toy Story 4 is amazing. It's good to see that despite Pixar's shaky quality the past years, they still put on their A-game for Toy Story.

Also OP, if you haven't seen Paddington 2 yet, do that now. You will love it.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,068
yeah I was extremely wary of 4 before release, but it really might be the best Toy Story.

100% how I've felt the more and more I think about it and after my second viewing of the movie (soon to be third as I'm seeing a girl now and actually introducing her to the series, please don't ask how the fudge someone can go without maybe just seeing the first). I was the guy going, "omg no 3 was the perfect ending wtf is this don't screw it up" but first one of my friends got an early look at the first 20 minutes of the film and told me not to worry, then I read what the director told viewers at an early screening, along the lines of, "I know many of you think 3 is the perfect ending. I love it too, but I consider that the end of Andy's story. There's still more to tell with Woody."

And then the reviews came in. Then I watched it. Then I talked about it. And I just can't feel anything else except, damn, what a phenomenal film, ESPECIALLY the camera work, which is the absolute best of all three movies.

It's funny reading the review thread and seeing the first page. "Worst Toy Story film doesn't need to exist [haven't seen the movie]"