The Verge - Google Stadia hands-on: near-flawless Doom Eternal running on a Chromebook

NoUse4AName

Member
Feb 5, 2019
143
For me, PsNow and Project Stream worked great both...but is a NO-NO for fighting games or fast-paced shooters
Some people maybe get a better experience, some maybe get worst....the same will happen with Stadia/Xcloud.

there is no magic formula here.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
1,699
It's good to hear that the tech's working... just still kind of puzzled why you need to buy a $130 founder's edition (at least until the Base service is out next year) to play games you're still paying full price for. Like... you can't just play Doom Eternal on a Chromebook at launch unless you've bought in on this other hardware designed to play it on your TV.
Now, there were a couple issues I encountered. At one point, my Stadia stream stopped receiving inputs from the Stadia controller, leaving my unfortunate Doom Eternal character squashed up against a wall while I got pounded on by angry demons. Instead of rebooting the stream, we just waited for my character to die, unplugged the controller, and re-synced it. I was good to go again in about two to three minutes.
How does one "unplug" the Stadia controller? I thought this thing worked over wi-fi connecting to the Stadia server, so it didn't need a bluetooth or other connection to the playback device (Chromecast, Chromebook, PC, phone, etc.)? Or is a wired connection optional for some small latency reduction.

EDIT - Okay it does support wired gameplay using the USB-C port, so that must be what they were doing.
 
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gcubed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,014
The two are wholly incomparable! Most people aren't overly fussed about whether Stadia is running at 1080p or 4k, the main issue is latency between user input and the game.

Netflix is an entirely passive experience that's not reliant upon quick inputs by the end user. Gaming is (for the most part) ENTIRELY dependent upon fast, continuous, reactive inputs.

Press play on a Netflix stream and no-one will care if it takes a second or two to actually start. Do that with a game and you'll be out of business in a week.
I think the point was that what you think and what the population of people that play games think are two wholly different things. Kinda the same as people who care about video and audio quality and people who care about convience. If you think the market for streaming cares about a hiccup here and there that would render the company “out of business in a week” you are sorely out of touch with the rest of the worlD.
 

Rosol

Member
Oct 29, 2017
247
Having tried both PSNow and Google stream, yes stream was "good" mostly in a sense - for streaming. The main differences between the two is PSNow is usually streaming old games at 720p and takes almost a minute just to boot the stupid game (the worst thing about it tbh), google stream was really fast to be in and playing with the SSDs and better hardware. The better impressions have more to do with the hardware behind google stream I think - which will change next gen when they have PS5s in the racks. Latency is 'ok' for something like assassins creed, but for me the real killer is network variance, spikes of latency at random times (I want to be in full control, not lose it at random times), spikes of compression at random times - Seeing the fuzzy instead of detail on certain things in the distance. It's not worth a negative draw back to save a few bucks. And really with 4k60, I'm very skeptical on how that will turn out - but it will need to be stellar to replace PS5/scarlet, and I don't see that happening.
 

fr0st

Member
Oct 28, 2017
885
Yeah when I tried project stream with AC Odyssey it work flawlessly. So that's how I'm expecting how this would work as well
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
10,047

I really want to know if that Wifi connected controller makes any difference. Xbox didn't say anything on that at the Scarlett announcement. If you get 5-10MS shaved off it will make a difference is pushing me one way or the other.
140 million, with only 700k subscribers. Must be an expensive subscription service.
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,643
The two are wholly incomparable! Most people aren't overly fussed about whether Stadia is running at 1080p or 4k, the main issue is latency between user input and the game.

Netflix is an entirely passive experience that's not reliant upon quick inputs by the end user. Gaming is (for the most part) ENTIRELY dependent upon fast, continuous, reactive inputs.

Press play on a Netflix stream and no-one will care if it takes a second or two to actually start. Do that with a game and you'll be out of business in a week.
Just as many people don't care much that a medium that is primarily visual based has sacrifices to the image quality, a large number of people won't care that an interactivity-based medium has sacrifices to input response. Ignoring how quickly people jumped to LCD displays when their response times were absolutely atrocious in comparison to CRTs, many people today are using their displays with post-process settings that are adding potentially more of a delay than the actual streaming will. If people can play Killzone 2, they can play basically anything via streaming :P

Until the day we stop being data cap by internet provider, then cloud streaming games isn't going to be the next big step.
This gets said a lot... but would honestly apply to Netflix and Youtube compared to TV and DVD. People with lower caps would likely just have to settle for lower quality image.

Near flawless with multiple drops...

Wake me when I can play an online competitive game at no disadvantage. Until then, I sleep.
It's actually feasible for streaming players to not be at a disadvantage, because whilst the would have the delay inherent to streaming the image, they wouldn't necessarily have to suffer the client/server delay usually entailed with local hardware, because the datacenter streaming the game to you could also be where the server you're playing on is located.
 

adobot

Member
Mar 19, 2019
87
This is really promising, and they still have over 5 months to make improvements and get it ready for launch.
 

mario_O

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,327
Controlled environment.

I wont believe a word until I see some real life benchmarks.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
Streaming will only be ready to become the primary way to play when someone developers faster-than-light communication.

No amount of buzzwords and careful manipulation of previews can change the laws of physics.
Xcloud is basically the same latency as a local Xbox, I’m sure the most recent stadia is similar too
 

low-G

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,892
Flawless in a demo setting. But regardless, I'll simply have a far superior home experience by not buying the game on Stadia and not paying the monthly fees to access the game at a reasonable framerate. I'll save money, keep the game forever (probably), and at higher quality, better graphics settings, etc etc.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,688
I think the point was that what you think and what the population of people that play games think are two wholly different things. Kinda the same as people who care about video and audio quality and people who care about convience. If you think the market for streaming cares about a hiccup here and there that would render the company “out of business in a week” you are sorely out of touch with the rest of the worlD.
You're completely missing the point which is that comparing a game streaming service to Netflix is stupid. Saying people accept lag from Netflix therefore will accept it from a game is mental gymnastics of the highest order.

You literally press one button to start a programme or film on Netflix and that is the limit of your input until you finish watching it. People don't notice latency because it's only at the very start as the stream comes in.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
Flawless in a demo setting. But regardless, I'll simply have a far superior home experience by not buying the game on Stadia and not paying the monthly fees to access the game at a reasonable framerate. I'll save money, keep the game forever (probably), and at higher quality, better graphics settings, etc etc.
You don’t have to pay any monthly fees for 60 fps
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,012
This is one of those "I need to demo it myself from my own device to let you know if it's flawless or not" situations.

There is simply no reliable way to know if it's legit or not with so many different variables involved. It may be a case-by-case basis, too, on whether it's flawless or not.
 

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,766
It's actually feasible for streaming players to not be at a disadvantage, because whilst the would have the delay inherent to streaming the image, they wouldn't necessarily have to suffer the client/server delay usually entailed with local hardware, because the datacenter streaming the game to you could also be where the server you're playing on is located.
Like I said, I will sleep until I actually see it working. So much of theoretical tech is feasible. What matters is how it performs in reality.

Also what youre saying is that streaming players would be on their own server to gain these advantages. How would the console player even connect to a streaming player? Or would Stadia have to lose the potential of cross platform play? Please educate me on this if you can, I'm genuinely curious.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,414
playing on a chromebook while out in the world sounds awesome until i think about public wifi spots (starbucks etc) and how I doubt they will give out the bandwidth you need on a per connection level. i'm not sure any public wifi spots out there will work :(

still i'm pretty excited to try out a stadia, i hope they get it to work with switch that would be kinda perfect especially if I can use the stadia controller with the switch.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
Once this releases we are going to be getting mixed results on latency depending on how far each of us are from a server

Some will say no lag
Others will say some lag but no big deal
Others will say too much lag
 
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emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,605
Also worth mentioning is the link within the linked article that goes to the GDC talk where the id representative says it took only two people and just three weeks to port Doom (2016?) over from PC to Stadia and that their own staff could barely/rarely tell the difference between local and cloud play.

It's actually feasible for streaming players to not be at a disadvantage, because whilst the would have the delay inherent to streaming the image, they wouldn't necessarily have to suffer the client/server delay usually entailed with local hardware, because the datacenter streaming the game to you could also be where the server you're playing on is located.
It would depend on the particular game to a extent as well. FPSes usually cheat with calculations as to whether a bullet actually hits the target that are separate from what the players actually observe at their end. On the other hand, fighting games roll back or delay inputs so that the base reality at all points coincides.
 

thebishop

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,059
I'm totally sold on Stadia, but I'm also totally sold on PS5. I'm confident Stadia is going to be amazing for playing online games with friends (particularly friends who don't own a console or don't religiously keep their PS4 up to date). The question to me is whether Stadia will be good enough to be my main platform for 3rd party single player games.

Getting almost a year head start for Stadia could be as important as Xbox360 having a year on PS3. Once I have a (small) library of games running at next-gen quality on Stadia, rushing out to buy a PS5 at launch might not seem so urgent.

To the tech heads out there: i'm hearing there's a fair amount of disappointment in the Navi announcement. It sounds like the big gains vs GCN/Vega are in power consumption. That makes a lot of sense for a mainstream console chip, but means nothing to the end-user of a cloud service. I'm wondering if the widely speculated Vega56 is going to be equivalent or better than the likely Navi chip going in PS5/Scarlet. Not to overstate it, but I'm reading HBM2 might have some advantages over GDDR6.
 
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Br3wnor

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,030
I don't get the negativity from some people about this.

I am always excited to try new technology and the promise of being able to truly play almost anywhere is pretty exciting to me.

If it sucks it sucks, but it sounds extremely promised and I am definitely going to give it a try on my average ass internet.
That’s how I feel. The closer we get to streaming everything and not having to own an actual console, the better. Ideally we get to a future where you just pick a controller up and stream a game on your TV. Make it subscription based, I can play any game I want at any time and we’re good to go. I know a lot of people here resist that idea but I think it’s inevitable. Imagine a games future where we don’t have to wait for console refreshes, games can just be developed and played on the most powerful hardware available and can be streamed to your TV, phone, tablet, etc. It’s quite exciting once the internet speeds get stable enough to provide this for everyone. I have fast enough internet where PSNow worked pretty much flawlessly for me, didn’t notice much beyond the occasional lag. Just wasn’t worth $20 a month for the games offered.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,120
seems legit, but what happened to [email protected]?
I mean, it's a sub 4K monitor. If this tech works I don't see why it shouldn't scale?

What's the point, it better be "near flawless" when it's a demo. The main issue is to know how flawless it will be when millions of people will use it at the same time.
YouTube works pretty well, so I don't really think the scope of the userbase is an issue.
 

Elite49

Member
Dec 16, 2018
63
I beta tested project stream on a FAST Wi-Fi connection. There was latency, lag, stuttering and artifacting present in my gameplay sessions without a doubt, and that was @ 1080P as well using Chrome on a WIN10 computer. That's not to say it isn't better now, but I am definitely going with the wait and see approach on this one and I can understand the concern.
I tried various setups with a good connection and while the latency was surprisingly good, the artifacting in Odyssey was horrendous when you entered the more colorful areas of the game.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
I tried various setups with a good connection and while the latency was surprisingly good, the artifacting in Odyssey was horrendous when you entered the more colorful areas of the game.
It’s being improved every month, that’s why it’s releasing in november instead of right now

Project stream was just a test of something early in development
 
Jun 18, 2018
625
I'm not sure such demos are a great way to prove the streaming works. I doubt there is the time to discover how the lag is.

Give some expert players the chance to play through the game on Nightmare at home for a couple of weeks and then check back in with how the input lag holds up.
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,643
Like I said, I will sleep until I actually see it working. So much of theoretical tech is feasible. What matters is how it performs in reality.

Also what youre saying is that streaming players would be on their own server to gain these advantages. How would the console player even connect to a streaming player? Or would Stadia have to lose the potential of cross platform play? Please educate me on this if you can, I'm genuinely curious.
As emag stated above, this would be dependent on individual game implementation. It however would be trivial to combine users playing via streaming with those playing using local hardware. Streaming players would have perhaps a 50ms delay on seeing their input reflected on their screen, but would have effectively a 0 ping to the server itself. Players using local hardware would have no delay in what they see on their screen, but may have the standard 50ms delay in game logic. Which of these players is at an advantage would depend on how the game would usually account for the delay in game logic, and whether or not always seeing a true representation of the game state is more valuable than seeing the approximation earlier.
 

Schmuck

Member
Oct 30, 2017
37
Am I correct in that all the demos have been using controllers? If that's the case, then I am not surprised that the input latency is not discernible for a large majority of people. However, what happens when they pick up a mouse and keyboard to play Doom Eternal with? ANY latency, no matter how minor, will feel much more present and worst case scenario could cause people to have motion sickness playing an FPS when otherwise they wouldn't have that issue.
 

SCB360

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,423
Why are people so down on this? I can see massive potential in the tech, sure theres gonna be kinks to iron out, just like Netflix had when it started


I fully expect MS and Google to have this sorted by next e3, I preordered the Stadia Founders edition cause I really wanna see what this is about
 

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,766
As emag stated above, this would be dependent on individual game implementation. It however would be trivial to combine users playing via streaming with those playing using local hardware. Streaming players would have perhaps a 50ms delay on seeing thier input reflected on their screen, but would have effectively a 0 ping to the server itself. Players using local hardware would have no delay in what they see on their screen, but may have the standard 50ms delay in game logic. Which of these players is at an advantage would depend on how the game would usually account for the delay in game logic, and whether or not always seeing a true representation of the game state is more valuable than seeing the approximation earlier.
Thanks for the explanation. Tbh, just waiting for MK11 to come out on Stadia. That demonstration will make or break streaming for me.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
2,609
For me, PsNow and Project Stream worked great both...but is a NO-NO for fighting games or fast-paced shooters
Some people maybe get a better experience, some maybe get worst....the same will happen with Stadia/Xcloud.

there is no magic formula here.
Well many people are playing fighting games and fast-paced shooters over varifying wifi connections. So for example if the PS4 has to read your controller inputs over bluetooth, then upload those actions to a server over wifi, would that be dramatically better than having the Stadia controller communicate directly with the server?
 

YourFriend

Member
Nov 15, 2017
32
I'm moving to a place soon with an isp that has gig speeds and no data caps, so I'm definitely excited to at least try this out.
 

tyfon

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,131
Norway
I wish they would disclose the network traceroute to the server when doing testes like this.
Even if I personally get < 10 ms to most major providers it is still valuable information to assess the results.
 

Mantrox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
Not being in the US, i am very much expecting a crappy launch.
Other than that, this will eventually cover pretty much 90% of the gaming consumers needs.

What i am expecting when it comes to long term business model is for Google to eventually release a "console" of sorts with hardware equivalency to the server rack units, that a customer can rent to have a local machine for the lag critical games.
You would either pay a fee to rent the machine, or have the machine for free if you alow Google to use it for other customers while it's not being used by you.
Or just ignore that part of the market and just focus on the non twitchy, non esports segment of the market.

Having some giants compete on this could be great for advancing technology in a number of fields.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,933
I'm looking forward to trying cloud streaming but with MS saying I can use my console I'm not sure if it will be much use to me.
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,128
Why are people so down on this? I can see massive potential in the tech, sure theres gonna be kinks to iron out, just like Netflix had when it started


I fully expect MS and Google to have this sorted by next e3, I preordered the Stadia Founders edition cause I really wanna see what this is about
Some people don't like change
Sony is not part of the conversion on this yet (will take a while for them to setup their own xcloud configuration)
Etc..

I'm hoping Stadia mostly lives up to the claims, I'm willing to make some sacrifices in order to remove myself from the console ecosystems
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,093
Biggest thing keeping me from Stadia is buying games that are locked to their streaming service, that I have little confidence in long term. (I just found and tossed my OnLive console)

Now, if it was a purely Gamepass like situation? I just fork over $20/month to play new top tier stuff? Maybe. But their $12/month Gold/Plus like solution ain’t gonna win me over. There’s already too many subs to buy.

Which is why MS is gonna take this with xCloud and crush shit.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,610
Wow, another thread of glowing hands on impressions of Stadia or xCloud and another thread of a bunch of people on Era who've never tried it telling everyone that the impressions are wrong.
 

skysthelimit

Member
Jan 16, 2019
86
I can't wait for Stadia personally, and particularly the free level.

I only own a Switch and don't have the time/money to justify a PS4/Xbox/PC so if I suddenly have the ability to buy a few of the big multiplats without dedicated hardware then huzzah.

Obviously it will be interesting to see performance, but I feel like it could work well for me.
 

dotyoureyes

Alt Account
Member
Jun 11, 2019
488
Wow, another thread of glowing hands on impressions of Stadia or xCloud and another thread of a bunch of people on Era who've never tried it telling everyone that the impressions are wrong.
No one is saying this? Fact is it will vary from person to person and this is a controlled test in a controlled environment. People here have used Stadia in this thread....
 

Air

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,253
If done right it'll be a nice alternative, but I like owning my games. There's definitely a market for this though
 

mogwai00

Member
Mar 24, 2018
115
So it is playable on a controller with vsync on. Good. Now let’s compare this to a 1000Mhz polled mouse without vsync. I’m not sure Doom is the obvious choice to demonstrate the tech.
I play DOOM on GeForce Now 120Hz/120+ uncapped FPS.
Mouse and keyboard.
It's sweet.

Hopefully Stadia will be similar, minus the support for 120 FPS.
 

Hzsn724

Member
Nov 10, 2017
383
GameStop execs are building an arc with "pre-owned" copies of Destiny and Madden '15 after reading this.
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,571
Everyone mentions PSNow, Stadia and what not.

Streaming has been around for free with most of your steam, uplay and battle net library if you own a shield.

NVidia Now already proved it will be feasible for most connections, I used the shield wirelessly and it worked well enough to where I was like “alright, you have my attention”
 

Plankton2

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,505
A lit of these threads just feel like people afraid of change.

Reminds me of when the switch launched and most people thought it would fail out the gate or the one X where people thought no way could it output what they claimed