Another poster has perfectly answered this very same question:
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The Whitewashing of #WhitePeopleDoingYoga
- Thread starter whatsinaname
- Start date
Another poster has perfectly answered this very same question:
OP
OP
I agree. I love all the things you listed too. Yoga too has definitely become a world wide thing. And all of that needs to be explored and talked about when you have a museum exhibit about Yoga.
But a museum is also the exact place to have conversations like this. Museums are there to archive history, the good and ugly parts. You don't go to a museum to feel good but to learn. Individually, there's nothing wrong with a white rapper doing Indian themes or a white Indian classical music performer. Those are all great.
But this. This is something else I feel.
I was not ready for this, madness.It's like the absurdity grew larger and larger and by the time opening reception starts with the band it's almost like they're trolling him. The Asian Art Museum? Really?
Can you point to which of these words is specifically adversarial and/or meant to make someone "feel bad"?
a. White
b. People
c. Doing
d. Yoga
GOD yes. Like the problem here isn't really that white people are doing yoga, it is that yoga has been commodified -- and the only people able to reliably make money off that commodification are, of course, white people. The problem isn't even that the opening performers are white, per se, but that they are performing under a colonialist aesthetic, and also being members of the culture that benefitted from that colonialism. They are poor stewards of the culture they claim to be representing. (And the colonialist/orientalist trappings are definitely a major factor into why people are not having it with the Zimmern or Ramsay forays into supposedly "authentic" Chinese food)
This exhibit sounded amazing.
Leave it to white people to walk back whiteness after creating the concept that virtually ravaged half the world and continues to permeate many aspects of society. I wish I could be identified as just a person.
Leave it to white people to walk back whiteness after creating the concept that virtually ravaged half the world and continues to permeate many aspects of society. I wish I could be identified as just a person.
It even goes past that, if you believe as many do that the asana limb of yoga (of which the west certainly showcases) was really altered and popularized by the Swedish (and Scandinavia in general) gymnastics in the early 1900s. It made sense how Dharma Mittra, Bikram and the others brought it over to the west to popularize it, but it did sort of encourage the west to miss the other, arguably more important limbs of yoga.
White fragility is a helluva drug.
Not surprised a few people in this thread are exemplifying it by disingenuously going on about the straw man "oh so white people can't be seen eating Thai food?!" totally missing the point of anti-capitalist and white-washing critique of the article.
#WhitePeopleEatingAsian ?
Not surprised a few people in this thread are exemplifying it by disingenuously going on about the straw man "oh so white people can't be seen eating Thai food?!" totally missing the point of anti-capitalist and white-washing critique of the article.
#WhitePeopleEatingAsian ?
I did color picker on a pic of me once in paint. I'm gray man.
You live near a retirement community, don't you.
Because that's some ancient racism.
Those words stringed together in a complete statement carry an adversarial tone as a title, not one singular word.
I understand renaming it to "People doing yoga" alters the intention of the author as well so I don't think focusing on any single word in that string is the issue either.
But having a hostile tone for an exhibit name may not be what the museum stakeholders want.
It's not hostile. It's a descriptive title for an exibit that is meant to get people thinking about something that happened, and is still happening.
It's not hostile though? It's literally a statement of fact as to the content of exhibit. It doesn't even gesture to the actual contextualization of what the artist was saying with the installation.
It's more provocative than it is hostile. It's sole purpose is to make you stop and think, which it does. It offending says more about the person receiving the message and should encourage self-reflection.
I've struggled for years with making a point to white people that Taco bell is NOT Mexican food but is in fact white people food (in retrospect, probably using this loaded term is what got me push back in the first place). This isn't a thing anymore for the most part at least, unless they're trying to troll me (it seems the past decade people are now quick to point out it's not real Mexican food). I think the convoluted point I'm trying to make is white people are quick to appropriate the parts of the culture they like and are tone deaf to the rest. The result being that white people are uncomfortable when confronted with that fact that what ever they're participating isn't "culture" but a white washed event/cuisine by white people for white people (so they can be comfortable).
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OP
OP
Yeah. I agree with Rainer516 that it was meant to be 'hostile' but I also think a museum exhibit is where that should have happened. A museum exhibit is not just an advertising and feel good avenue for a rapper and a yoga-instructor who hold $3000 yoga retreats for other rich people.
Anyone legitimately holding the opinion that Taco Bell is Mexican food is not someone worth your time.
Like I said though, thankfully this hasn't been a thing for a long time (13+ years), but I am ashamed I even entertained their thoughts. At this point, I no longer bother with it since I just assume they're trolling, I simply just let them enjoy their bland food and I'll keep having the real deal on the regs.
Are there any common contexts where the term "white people" isn't used as a pejorative?
I think we can agree that the use of "white people" as a pejorative carries significantly less weight than just about every other racial pejorative.
What I wouldn't give to have Durban Bunny Chow again....Damn....
I really don't get the blow back. Its a great art exhibit if you ask me. Its provactive and demands that you think about it. The fact it can do it with something so seemingly benign (like yoga), makes it all the better.
What annoys you about it? How would you refer to us? If us white people can't be refered to as white people, what is the more acceptable politically correct term? I'm what would be considered white. I'm a person. Not seeing the problem.
This is ridiculous, having Thai food is not appropriation.
Being white and enjoying yoga is also not appropriation either, but the widespread commodification of it is problematic. I'm not really sure there's a great solution to it other than being more inclusive, which installations like this are trying to do. I think having a #whitepeopledoingyoga title is a great way to tongue in cheek point out the problematic elements without coming off as the fabled "what I can't do yoga now!?" Thing that people in this thread think it is.
you can absolutely seperate rituals and acts from spirituality and appropriate then into other things.You think Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism etc are the same everywhere?
The only reason you can consider the actual title "White People Doing Yoga" as adversarial is if you understand the context of cultural commodification and know it's wrong and abrasive.
Because frankly a "Black People Doing Yoga" exhibit sounds awesome to me, because that context of cultural commidification simply isn't there.
Because frankly a "Black People Doing Yoga" exhibit sounds awesome to me, because that context of cultural commidification simply isn't there.
I had to look up the "PC" term for them, apparently it's European-American... I can see why white people don't like this descriptor either, they're too proud of just being an amurican' pure bred.
White people doing yoga: "White people doing yoga" is too hostile and abrasive and I don't like it
Black people doing yoga: You cannot police me, so get off my areola
One thing that confused me as I reread this is the timeline that all of this went down. An exhibit like this should normally be set in stone a year before it opens, but the tone of the article makes it sound like most of the controversy within the museum's staff happened mere months before it opened, when usually the focus is just on very minor details. Besides the whitewashing, that's a ridiculous level of institutional incompetency and a total breakdown of proper procedure.
And of course there's the fact he was only paid $1500 for a new work, which is absolutely absurd at a major institution. We could never get away with that at my tiny museum and we probably see less visitors per year than they get in a week
And of course there's the fact he was only paid $1500 for a new work, which is absolutely absurd at a major institution. We could never get away with that at my tiny museum and we probably see less visitors per year than they get in a week
Maybe start considering why that is the case and who's to blame for that.
As a mighty whitie, I believe I can stretch and breathe without Hinduism. Anyone can.
But a museum piece about yoga needs the brown people that invented it. And a museum piece about the interesting process of appropriation by another culture needs to call out which group is doing the appropriating. Either call it White People Doing (stealing) Yoga or hire a majority of culturally legit (brown) people.
But a museum piece about yoga needs the brown people that invented it. And a museum piece about the interesting process of appropriation by another culture needs to call out which group is doing the appropriating. Either call it White People Doing (stealing) Yoga or hire a majority of culturally legit (brown) people.
As a Houstonian, no shit. I'm legitimately trying to think of anyone I know who considers Taco Bell real Mexican food and completely coming up short. Is this actually a thing? I don't know anyone who would consider it not only "real" Mexican food (and that includes people from out of the country), but it's not even Americanized Mexican food, it's just god tier drunk food. "In Mexico, Taco Bell is considered American Food" is something I feel like I've known since like, 3rd grade.
If I want real Mexican tacos I'll stop at one of the many food trucks set up in gas station parking lots in the area and get a taco or burrito for 1/2 the price of Taco Bell. If I'm drunk at 2am I'm grabbing a Volcano taco (RIP) or three.
As a white man, I completely agree that our appropriation sucks. And, like Alice said above me, that was a wild read.
Fuck yeahhhhhhhh, high five my fellow Houstonian! I, too, have never met a soul that considers Taco Bell actual Mexican food.
Fuck yeahhhhhhhh, high five my fellow Houstonian! I, too, have never met a soul that considers Taco Bell actual Mexican food.
Probably something thst happens the more you go north. You'd have to go out of your way in Texas(or any border state) to not experience real Mexican food.
Sure you can, that's called appropriation... Only in those cases it's accepted.
I completely accept that kind of appropriation then.
i think a key difference here (again my post completely supports doing the #white people museum piece) is that words like appropriation are thrown around and don't mean what they are being used for.
a white girl doing yoga in San Francisco does nothing to weaken the culture it was "taken" from. I mean also yoga and Indian culture have been exported to other civilisations for literally Millenia as well.
a White hippy with dreadlocks this isnt
There is something so fucking embarrassing watching grown men dive in football.