The Wind Waker vs Twilight Princess vs Skyward Sword

The best Zelda game of these three releases was...

  • The Wind Waker

    Votes: 856 60.4%
  • Twilight Princess

    Votes: 417 29.4%
  • Skyward Sword

    Votes: 144 10.2%

  • Total voters
    1,417
  • This poll will close: .

Awesome Kev

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,419
Daytona Beach
the charm of wind waker and still pretty much unmatched in video games today

all except for breath of the wild

even then it doesn't quite capture the feeling that WW did
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,215
I found the atmosphere in TWW unintentionally depressing because of how boring and repetitive world is, and how the dungeons feel like inferior counter parts to Ocarina's. It does have its moments like the sound of the wind and cannons in the distance, which felt unique at the time and when some of the irish folkish music starts playing but to me, these are very nostalgic moments from what was a very dissappointing game back in its day.

Majoras' Mask, Ocarina of Time and BOTW, ALTTP have the most atmosphere, because they have a load of visual variety in their worlds from the band hall of the Zoras, the musical storms at Kakairiko village to the gianormous dragons that drop their scales and how compact and twisted the dark world was. A lot of the time nostalgia is the atmosphere but some games have earnt it with the sheer effort and imagination.
 

Naga

Member
Aug 29, 2019
1,187
WW > TP > SS

Their remakes/remasters were even better too.
WW is still my favorite 3D Zelda despite its issues, TP is OoT ++, and SS has some fantastic dungeons and combat but a bad overworld (sky) mixed with some of the worst pacing in the franchise.
 

Velezcora

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,435
I haven't finished a single one. Wind Waker because I couldn't be arsed to grind rupees to pay that fat bastard Tingle to interpret those maps. Twilight Princess because waggle is a sin and just never played Skyward Sword.

I would really like to see the HD remake of Wind Waker and Remaster of Twilight Princess on Switch however. Mainly so I can see if my enjoyment of Wind Waker improves with the fast sail and slightly fixed tri force quest. Being able to play Twilight Princess with proper controls for a reasonable price would be cool too.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,228
Nah its a great game.

SS is the greatest game I have played with motion controls and I thought they were brilliant and worked perfectly. Not something I want to repeat, but I personally really enjoy new experiences and there was never anything like SS before or since. The level of control you had over the sword was really remarkable.
 

Squid Icarus

Member
Jul 11, 2019
27
Skyward Sword is by far the best traditional 3D Zelda game imo, it has the best dungeons and bosses, great music and design and excellent gameplay and puzzles. I think people would rethink their opinion on SS if they played it again today. Yes, it has some flaws, like the boring overworld, the slow start and the recycled fight against the Imprisoned. It only suffered from being released at a time where everyone expected a fresh take on Zelda. But only judging the game itself, it's clearly the peak of 3D Zelda to me.
 

Asbsand

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,185
Denmark
I jest but I do think Twilight Princess is a better game in every way and I feel that WW gets a lot of praise simply for its art style because it lacks in many areas like the dungeons and exploration while also being clearly unfinished.
Twilight Princess feels less finished to me, actually. Like a story that was released in the middle of its secondary drafts and not the final one. Wind Waker had things hardly cut out from it, but what was left felt mostly final. TP's plot has so many weird turns and shift in direction from its premise, it makes it feel sort of incomplete to me, particularly the almost total negligence of Wolf Link after the third dungeon, if it wasn't for how it comes back into play very abruptly in City in the Sky. The story, is god damn terrible in TP, that's for sure. Without Midna I wouldn't like anything in it.
Skyward Sword is by far the best traditional 3D Zelda game imo, it has the best dungeons and bosses
I thought the dungeons tended to lack complexity. The best ones I recall are the first one, the pirate ship and water/zombie one. But the second temple is absurdly short, way below the Zelda norm at that point in time, and a trend I feel continued with ALBW and BotW. IIRC, it took me just 20 minutes.
 

megashock5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
401
Powell, Ohio
I love the visual style of Wind Waker, but the stealth barrel stuff is maddening IMO. Still, though, awesome game.

Twilight Princess is not a great looking game at all, but I really enjoyed it from a gameplay perspective and completed it twice.

About halfway through Skyward Sword I got frustrated with the calibration of the Motion+ and went back to Twilight Princess.
 

sanstesy

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,315
Wind waker is the worst by a good margin. The worst dungeon design in the series, worst overworld in a Zelda game, worst combat in the series, no ingenuity or challenge to speak of in either puzzle, exploration or combat design. It also has the worst soundtrack out of all the three games (highlights being only the Dragon Roost and the Sailing theme). Here and there it has some good story and character beats but so do both Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess. It has clearly the best art style and the best atmosphere out of all the three games, though.

Twilight Princess is second but that would require a long in-depth text about its dungeon design I have no time for and I outlined in countless other threads so the tl;dr version; Twilight Princess' dungeons, while solid, are still considerably worse than Skyward Sword's and as dungeons are the meat and bones of both of these games that makes Skyward Sword the best of the three.
 

Discokuningas

Member
Jan 18, 2018
652
I would love to give my vote to Skyward Sword because it is so underrated here, but Wind Waker is just better. Twilight Princess comes third but it is still very good and has the best dungeons.
 
Nov 17, 2017
7,372
Twilight Princess feels less finished to me, actually. Like a story that was released in the middle of its secondary drafts and not the final one. Wind Waker had things hardly cut out from it, but what was left felt mostly final. TP's plot has so many weird turns and shift in direction from its premise, it makes it feel sort of incomplete to me, particularly the almost total negligence of Wolf Link after the third dungeon, if it wasn't for how it comes back into play very abruptly in City in the Sky. The story, is god damn terrible in TP, that's for sure. Without Midna I wouldn't like anything in it.
Now this is a weird argument to me. Wind Waker clearly has large parts cut from it. Like think about how the beginning of the game sets up 3 orbs and 3 dungeons except when you get to the 3rd dungeon, it's not there and you instead are forced to run around the overworld and shoot a wall before the game just gives you the last orb. Clearly there was meant to be a dungeon there and it's so obvious and awkwardly paced because of it. Then there's the Triforce Hunt which is even more clear padding in place of what was supposed to be more dungeons. Twilight Princess does nothing like that and never feels like there should be something there like a dungeon but instead there's some fetch quest being put in place of one. TP has a great progression of dungeons that build upon one another while Wind Waker has half the amount and they only start to develop into something interesting by the last one. By last one, I mean the Earth Temple because Ganon's Tower is another very clear cut corner compared to something like Hyrule Castle in TP.

I don't really know what you're talking about regarding TP's story. Regardless if you like the story or not, it's clearly complete and I don't know how you could say it isn't. I also think you may have not played the game in a long time because Wolf Link gets used repeatedly throughout the game. He arguably gets used more after the third dungeons when you gain the ability to freely switch back and forth between forms. I'm not even sure what you're talking about in City in the Sky.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,345
I'm actually wondering if the original plan for TWW was 3 dungeons for pearls, then get master sword, then 8 (or maybe 5?) dungeons for the triforce lol. Would have been a ton, but the sages and "activating the master sword" are such random shit
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,215
I'm actually wondering if the original plan for TWW was 3 dungeons for pearls, then get master sword, then 8 (or maybe 5?) dungeons for the triforce lol. Would have been a ton, but the sages and "activating the master sword" are such random shit
I really felt like Jabu and the ghost ship could have done with a dungeon after the work to find it. Instead of the trifoce quest the ice and fire islands turned into dungeons for the pieces would have been better but even the lack of 1 or 2 more dungeons only scratching the surface of things wrong with WW.
 

Vivian-Pogo

Member
Jan 9, 2018
1,182
Wind Waker has boring dungeons, and the overworld is charming, but gets a bit dull with how long it takes to get places.

Twilight Princess has good dungeons, but atrocious out of dungeon stuff. (Is there a hack to play the dungeons in order without the rest of the game?)

Skyward Sword has the best dungeons in 3D Zelda, and the 2nd best out of dungeon stuff (after BotW).
 

Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,909
TP >>>>> Skyward Sword > Wind Waker

Too many people get caught up in Wind Waker's admittedly great aesthetic and memorable story but forget that the dungeons and overworld were a major step back in all aspects. I'm convinced people hold it in high regards because they were a kid when it came out or it was the first Zelda they played.

Twilight Princess is basically OoT 2.0, which may not be what people want but it does a fantastic job of conveying what made OoT great. More challenging than WW, complex and creative dungeons, unique items, it does so much right. There are some pacing flubs that keep it from being completely smooth but it is easily one of the best Zelda games.

Skyward Sword probably has even better dungeons than TP, but worse everything else.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,345
Twilight Princess is basically OoT 2.0, which may not be what people want but it does a fantastic job of conveying what made OoT great
Hell no
OoT wasn't filled with boring questlines along the way. It's pure plot and action. Replaying TP is a pain. At least you can skip cutscenes.
The new items are borderline useless outside of their dungeons too.
 

Asbsand

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,185
Denmark
Like think about how the beginning of the game sets up 3 orbs and 3 dungeons except when you get to the 3rd dungeon
True, true, but they work their way around it. I guess I'm just more critical of how story is implemented than gameplay, because it was like "Oh, I thought there'd be a temple, oh well" as opposed to "This story is actually nonsense" which is how I started to feel once you get to the twilight realm in TP.
 

10k

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,283
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Wind Waker:

Pros
  • Great art style
  • Added parrying and sheathing sword
  • A cool post-apocalyptic story
  • Great soundtrack
  • New traversal items like the Korok Leaf
  • Dungeons were fun
Cons

  • Mundane sailing
  • Cut content
  • Sea combat was boring
  • Treasure hunting got repetitive real quick
Twilight Princess

Pros

  • Good soundtrack
  • Best dungeons in the series
  • Memorable boss fights
  • More cinematic story

Cons

  • Boring overworld
  • Traversal took a long time
  • Wolf combat and gameplay wasn't fun
  • Tried too hard to be Ocarina of Time 2
Skyward Sword

Pros

  • Great art style
  • Great soundtrack
  • Good presentation
  • Best depiction of Zelda
  • Dungeons were cleverly designed
  • Neat boss battles

Cons

  • Too much filler content
  • Gameplay between dungeons was tedious
  • Motion controls weren't 1:1 and had to be re-calibrated many times
  • Fi

I like Twilight Princess because it has the best meat and potatoes of a Zelda game: Dungeons. Specifically, puzzle solving, boss battles, new items in each dungeon, and combat. I also rather enjoyed the story and liked how Ganon wasn't really the main antagonist.

Wind Waker is a close 2nd.

Skyward Sword had too much padding and it's a shame it can't be re-experienced without motion controls.
 
Nov 17, 2017
7,372
True, true, but they work their way around it. I guess I'm just more critical of how story is implemented than gameplay, because it was like "Oh, I thought there'd be a temple, oh well" as opposed to "This story is actually nonsense" which is how I started to feel once you get to the twilight realm in TP.
Even from a story perspective it feels cut short. Like, it's apparent that what happens is a work around and it just feels awkward. Like Ganon uses some curse to make it eternal night but then it just kind of goes away even though you do nothing to confront that? You meet new people and cultures at the first 2 orb locations and so you'd assume the 3rd would be the same but the island is destroyed. Did they all die? Was there no one there ever? Why is Jabu Jabu behind a rock on Link's island? It's very slapped together because they clearly intended for there to be more there. And the Triforce Hunt is nothing if you want to talk about story. Literally nothing happens. I don't really think there's any moments that egregious in TP. Even when that game has its fetch quest, there's story reasons, things happen and characters develop.
 

Vampirolol

Member
Dec 13, 2017
1,923
Even from a story perspective it feels cut short. Like, it's apparent that what happens is a work around and it just feels awkward. Like Ganon uses some curse to make it eternal night but then it just kind of goes away even though you do nothing to confront that? You meet new people and cultures at the first 2 orb locations and so you'd assume the 3rd would be the same but the island is destroyed. Did they all die? Was there no one there ever? Why is Jabu Jabu behind a rock on Link's island? It's very slapped together because they clearly intended for there to be more there. And the Triforce Hunt is nothing if you want to talk about story. Literally nothing happens. I don't really think there's any moments that egregious in TP. Even when that game has its fetch quest, there's story reasons, things happen and characters develop.
There is a timeline where WW had another full year of development and ended up being the best 3D Zelda game.
 

Mist

C'est pour cela
Que je suis née
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
2,599
Happy to see Wind Waker winning the poll.
 

Bya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,769
Motion controls ruined both TP and SS for me. I hate that fucking wiimote so much!

If they release the HD remasters for Switch I'll give TP another shot. Not gonna buy the presumably overpriced GC version now.
 

XandBosch

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,860
TWW has stellar presentation but shite content
TP has trash presentation and decent content
SS has good presentation and good content, despite some filler

Voted SS.
Funny, I'd have said SS has bad presentation and bad content, despite some decent stuff.

Even the promise of "the origin of the Master Sword" was shit - it was pretty much the same thing Wind Waker had already done. I don't consider that to be the origin of the Master Sword in my own "head canon" or whatever - that sword deserves a way cooler origin story than some lame fetch quest that turns a green sword into a blue one.
 

XandBosch

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,860
I haven't finished a single one. Wind Waker because I couldn't be arsed to grind rupees to pay that fat bastard Tingle to interpret those maps. Twilight Princess because waggle is a sin and just never played Skyward Sword.

I would really like to see the HD remake of Wind Waker and Remaster of Twilight Princess on Switch however. Mainly so I can see if my enjoyment of Wind Waker improves with the fast sail and slightly fixed tri force quest. Being able to play Twilight Princess with proper controls for a reasonable price would be cool too.
Lmao
 

Bit_Reactor

Member
Apr 9, 2019
2,075
Skyward Sword - My gf and my favorite Link and Zelda outside of BOTW and love the "romance" angle of childhood friends and we get mushy when watching the scenes. Probably some of the best "story" elements in a Zelda and the "I'm still your Zelda" scene gets her everytime. That being said I thought the rest of it was bland and forgettable.

Twilight Princess - It was a bad version of Okami tacked onto a edgy version of OoT. Some cool elements, love the Twili, love Midna, etc. But I just don't like the story or any of the art direction in it.

WindWaker - The HD re-release is probably what's steering myself and others towards this one as it fixed a lot of the problems and made it even better, but everything from the soundtrack to the Ganondorf fight to the monster designs makes me love it more than the other two. It's just charming as hell and the islands are just comfy.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,072
Miami
Why is this website so wrong about Zelda games. It’s Twilight Princess and it’s not close.

WW has clear cut content with a rushed ending, a lack of dungeons, poor dungeons too. It’s fun cause it’s a big world with charming people and a unique Zelda story.

Does it really do much that’s better than TP, nope. TP far far far far better dungeons. TP way better variety in things to do. TP much better items. TP better puzzles. TP better boss battles. TP longest quest. While WW combat was very fast and snappy, TP improved on it with more moves and items.

Everything GAME wise TP does better. But people care about story which whatever. Open world exploration, I’ll take non stop great design than just exploring for the sake of exploring. If you care about gameplay, it’s TP.

Twilight Princess is worthy of being with the N64 masterpieces, the other two do not.
 

XandBosch

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,860
Skyward Sword - My gf and my favorite Link and Zelda outside of BOTW and love the "romance" angle of childhood friends and we get mushy when watching the scenes. Probably some of the best "story" elements in a Zelda and the "I'm still your Zelda" scene gets her everytime. That being said I thought the rest of it was bland and forgettable.

Twilight Princess - It was a bad version of Okami tacked onto a edgy version of OoT. Some cool elements, love the Twili, love Midna, etc. But I just don't like the story or any of the art direction in it.

WindWaker - The HD re-release is probably what's steering myself and others towards this one as it fixed a lot of the problems and made it even better, but everything from the soundtrack to the Ganondorf fight to the monster designs makes me love it more than the other two. It's just charming as hell and the islands are just comfy.
Well said, I agree with pretty much everything here.
 
Nov 17, 2017
7,372
Why is this website so wrong about Zelda games. It’s Twilight Princess and it’s not close.

WW has clear cut content with a rushed ending, a lack of dungeons, poor dungeons too. It’s fun cause it’s a big world with charming people and a unique Zelda story.

Does it really do much that’s better than TP, nope. TP far far far far better dungeons. TP way better variety in things to do. TP much better items. TP better puzzles. TP better boss battles. TP longest quest. While WW combat was very fast and snappy, TP improved on it with more moves and items.

Everything GAME wise TP does better. But people care about story which whatever. Open world exploration, I’ll take non stop great design than just exploring for the sake of exploring.

Twilight Princess is worthy of being with the N64 masterpieces, the other two do not.
Listen to this guy. Wesker knows what he's talking about.

Even exploration, Wind Waker's supposed strong suit, is better in Twilight Princess. Hyrule Field is divided into nice, easy chunks and everything is more condensed so you find secrets more often. Wind Waker is so full of empty blue ocean that you're often just passively sailing until you find a small rock to do something on. I know it's an ocean and they can't exactly work around that but that's how it is.
 

XandBosch

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,860
Listen to this guy. Wesker knows what he's talking about.

Even exploration, Wind Waker's supposed strong suit, is better in Twilight Princess. Hyrule Field is divided into nice, easy chunks and everything is more condensed so you find secrets more often. Wind Waker is so full of empty blue ocean that you're often just passively sailing until you find a small rock to do something on. I know it's an ocean and they can't exactly work around that but that's how it is.
To me, Wind Waker's exploration was very much a beta Breath of the Wild. The first time exploring it, it was so full of mystery, you'd come across random islands and wonder what was going on there, some islands you couldn't even land on, etc. And while out on the ocean, you'd come across pirates, new enemies, crazy storms, etc.

Twilight Princess' Hyrule is like if Breath of the Wild didn't have shrines, or the dragons, or korok seeds, etc. It's just a huge mass with nothing really to do, and it's way bigger than it needs to be. Even fighting on horseback gets boring quickly and the game just turns into "get from A to B with as little frustration as possible".
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,637
I gotta be the odd one out here and say that Skyward Sword is my favorite of the 3. I think it's just a perfection of that style of zelda format, even if the series needed to move on from it.

It has excellent dungeons, a lot of great puzzles in the overworld, a pretty charming group of characters, and really good music. It expanded the series mechanically, with stuff like the Timestones, dashing/stamina, and even just the motion based combat. I also like the way they played around with some of the "origin" lore. It's not perfect, certainly. Fi can be annoying and YMMV when it comes to motion controls, but I look back at SS with a fondness that I don't quite have for TWW and TP.

People get bummed that they broke up the overworld into linear zones, but this isn't all that different than how OOT and MM are. If anything, the game's a lot like the Metroid Prime series. The biggest hangup is going to be how much you enjoyed the content *outside* of dungeons. I personally liked a lot of it, with a few exceptions. They basically brought dungeon elements into the overworld, which would later get expanded with BOTW.

I love the charm of TWW, but I felt the dungeons and the world to be lacking. I found sailing to be tedious, and I just never found the game's structure to be super compelling. But the artstyle, characters, and general vibe are stellar. TP on the other hand is just kind of unmemorable. There's something about TP that I can't put my finger on. I enjoyed it well enough when it came out, but there's just nothing that really sticks out as incredible, other than some fun with the spinner and some pretty neat ideas for the final boss battle.
 
Last edited:

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,072
Miami
To me, Wind Waker's exploration was very much a beta Breath of the Wild. The first time exploring it, it was so full of mystery, you'd come across random islands and wonder what was going on there, some islands you couldn't even land on, etc. And while out on the ocean, you'd come across pirates, new enemies, crazy storms, etc.

Twilight Princess' Hyrule is like if Breath of the Wild didn't have shrines, or the dragons, or korok seeds, etc. It's just a huge mass with nothing really to do, and it's way bigger than it needs to be. Even fighting on horseback gets boring quickly and the game just turns into "get from A to B with as little frustration as possible".
TP Hyrule field is not that big at all. There is space but it’s used in set pieces, it’s not exactly meant to be exploring every single corner. It’s big when it needs to be and focused when it wants, it doesn’t just give the player a bunch of emptiness that wastes your time. What I love about it is how varied it is. From the vast desert, to the huge river, the beautiful lake hylia, the lost woods, hyrule castle, abandoned towns. So much to see.

I love WW for the open exploration, it was such a great change of pace and yeah the prototype for BOTW. I actually like it more than BOTW because it was structured well, every square has something, you know it’s there and how many places to go, so even though it took time to get places it wasn’t as wasteful as BOTW where a ton of time is just spent wandering around with a boring korok seed as your reward. But all that exploration shouldn’t come at the expense of the best parts of Zelda, the level design and dungeons.
 

Timbuktu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,721
Wind Waker has the most charm, I just wish they would go the extra mile and finish the game when they remake it again.
 

Odeko

The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
3,505
Midwestern America
I’m still bummed WWHD didn’t take the opportunity to add the missing dungeons instead of just cutting down on the padding.

A huge second missed opportunity to make the game actually great.
 

KojiKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,206
It's not even clear, Wind Waker is miles ahead of Twilight Princess. Heck, I'd even put Skyward Sword above TP. Yeah, it failed pretty hard, but at least it's gimmick was more interesting then 'be forced to turn back and forth between a dog'. Wolf Link was just straight up not fun, and Hyrule field was even more bleak and uninteresting than OoT's version...

HD Wind Waker also fixed a lot of issues with faster travel and tweaking the end game triforce hunt to be less bad, both of which were very welcomed.

I’m still bummed WWHD didn’t take the opportunity to add the missing dungeons instead of just cutting down on the padding.

A huge second missed opportunity to make the game actually great.
Those dungeons were retooled and put into Twilight Princess, this has been known since at least TP's launch, if not in an interview from before and has been repeated in multiple interviews since.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,637
People's intense hatred for SS always bums me out. It's one area where I feel like I'm so off from the zietgeist. Yet a lot of people I know personally enjoyed it, for whatever that's worth.

Ultimately, through TWW-TP-SS, I think Nintendo realized they needed to shake up this format entirely, and BOTW was absolutely the right move.
 

Odeko

The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
3,505
Midwestern America
It's not even clear, Wind Waker is miles ahead of Twilight Princess. Heck, I'd even put Skyward Sword above TP. Yeah, it failed pretty hard, but at least it's gimmick was more interesting then 'be forced to turn back and forth between a dog'. Wolf Link was just straight up not fun, and Hyrule field was even more bleak and uninteresting than OoT's version...

HD Wind Waker also fixed a lot of issues with faster travel and tweaking the end game triforce hunt to be less bad, both of which were very welcomed.



Those dungeons were retooled and put into Twilight Princess, this has been known since at least TP's launch, if not in an interview from before and has been repeated in multiple interviews since.
I didn’t mean necessarily those exact scrapped dungeon concepts, I just mean create more dungeons from scratch to finish the game. Sort of like how Link’s Awakening added a new dungeon in its DX rerelease (though obviously higher quality than that one).
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,720
Why is this website so wrong about Zelda games. It’s Twilight Princess and it’s not close.

WW has clear cut content with a rushed ending, a lack of dungeons, poor dungeons too. It’s fun cause it’s a big world with charming people and a unique Zelda story.

Does it really do much that’s better than TP, nope. TP far far far far better dungeons. TP way better variety in things to do. TP much better items. TP better puzzles. TP better boss battles. TP longest quest. While WW combat was very fast and snappy, TP improved on it with more moves and items.

Everything GAME wise TP does better. But people care about story which whatever. Open world exploration, I’ll take non stop great design than just exploring for the sake of exploring. If you care about gameplay, it’s TP.

Twilight Princess is worthy of being with the N64 masterpieces, the other two do not.
Listen to this guy. Wesker knows what he's talking about.

Even exploration, Wind Waker's supposed strong suit, is better in Twilight Princess. Hyrule Field is divided into nice, easy chunks and everything is more condensed so you find secrets more often. Wind Waker is so full of empty blue ocean that you're often just passively sailing until you find a small rock to do something on. I know it's an ocean and they can't exactly work around that but that's how it is.
The bolded is just flat out wrong. We only have to look at the main gimmick of each title. One has you influencing the wind, not only a part in traversal but also other gameplay aspects like the deku leaf. The other has a shitty wolf transformation that does nothing but make you wish it didn't excist every time it comes up. It adds absolutely nothing positive to the experience.


WW has:
- Better character and enemy designs. Literally every character outside of Midna and Zelda looks ass in TP.

- A better story. Tetra and the pirates are more charming than any character in TP. Ganondorf in WW is the best Ganondorf the series ever had.

- TP has so many shit boss battles. The only good ones were Stallord, Argorok and the final Ganondorf one. Fyrus is an absolute turd and Morpheel doesn't even do anything. While Ghoma in WW isn't too good either, at least it's visually striking. Ghodan, the bird and Molgera are more fun than almost anything in TP.

- The Deku leaf is better than any item in TP, because you can and have to use it outside of the dungeon you find it in (which is almost never the case in TP).

TP has good dungeons and that's it. It absolutely shits the bed in every other aspect and isn't even remotely close to the 64 games. Windwakers artstyle alone is bolder than anything TP ever tried, and the reason for that were all these morons who cried kiddy at WW back then. TP not only played it safe in terms of appeasing OoT fans but also tried way too hard to be edgy in terms of atmosphere.
 
Nov 17, 2017
7,372
To me, Wind Waker's exploration was very much a beta Breath of the Wild. The first time exploring it, it was so full of mystery, you'd come across random islands and wonder what was going on there, some islands you couldn't even land on, etc. And while out on the ocean, you'd come across pirates, new enemies, crazy storms, etc.

Twilight Princess' Hyrule is like if Breath of the Wild didn't have shrines, or the dragons, or korok seeds, etc. It's just a huge mass with nothing really to do, and it's way bigger than it needs to be. Even fighting on horseback gets boring quickly and the game just turns into "get from A to B with as little frustration as possible".
Wind Waker's map becomes fairly systematic once you get a look at it.



This is what I dislike about it. It's just a grid. One square means one island. The rest is almost always just empty water. And when you're in water, your very limited to what you can do. Sailing is just kind of boring and for me, it just started to feel like I was passively sailing the same blue water texture until I found the rock that belonged to that square. There was just so much empty space in between everything and a lot of the time, like you said, you couldn't even do anything or there was hardly much to do.

I preferred Hyrule Field in TP because it was much more condensed. It's not really a huge mass, in fact it's smartly divided into smaller parts and the variety in landmass, altitude, environments, etc. allow it to be more interesting and varied than the same old empty ocean throughout WW.



It was cool how, for example, you could get to Lake Hylia a number of different ways: Ride the river down from Zora's Domain, come through the mountain pass in Southern Hyrule or approach from Castle Town. With Castle Town as the central hub, everything fit together interestingly and funneled into one another in a more organic way rather than just having a grid and putting one main point of interest in each grid. It wasn't flat in the way the Great Sea was, there were levels to things. At least with Epona, I had to consciously steer her around obstacles and through environments. Horseback combat was really fun too. In Wind Waker, I would set the direction of the wind and let go of my controller as I passively sailed to my destination. Even when things like sharks would appear, it was humorous how often they wouldn't even touch me. It wasn't even worth trying to deal with them because using the cannon was boring and cumbersome and used up resources compared to horseback combat.

Also, people really tend to undersell how much there is to do in Hyrule Field. I would argue there is almost as much extra stuff to find and do in TP as there is in Wind Waker. What Wind Waker has in Pirate Outposts and submarines, TP has in hidden grottos and caves. TP has hidden mini dungeons and environmental puzzles that require the use of your dungeon items. You need 5 pieces of heart to get a heart container which means there are more to find and more places to find them. There are bugs and poes to collect too so it's not like there aren't any collectibles like korok seeds. I think it's unfair to compare shrines in BotW to what TP has when TP has 9 full dungeons, a lack of which is what the shrines in BotW literally compensate for. Exploration is much more streamlined in TP but I think that's a strength not a weakness. Exploration in WW easily became boring and too dragged out. The Triforce Hunt was the ultimate limit.
 

Scott Lufkin

Member
Dec 7, 2017
132
Wind Waker. I actually didn't like the Wii Zelda games because of "waggle to attack", I never enjoyed it and I did try to play with it.
 

Bit_Reactor

Member
Apr 9, 2019
2,075
The bolded is just flat out wrong. We only have to look at the main gimmick of each title. One has you influencing the wind, not only a part in traversal but also other gameplay aspects like the deku leaf. The other has a shitty wolf transformation that does nothing but make you wish it didn't excist every time it comes up. It adds absolutely nothing positive to the experience.


WW has:
- Better character and enemy designs. Literally every character outside of Midna and Zelda looks ass in TP.

- A better story. Tetra and the pirates are more charming than any character in TP. Ganondorf in WW is the best Ganondorf the series ever had.

- TP has so many shit boss battles. The only good ones were Stallord, Argorok and the final Ganondorf one. Fyrus is an absolute turd and Morpheel doesn't even do anything. While Ghoma in WW isn't too good either, at least it's visually striking. Ghodan, the bird and Molgera are more fun than almost anything in TP.

- The Deku leaf is better than any item in TP, because you can and have to use it outside of the dungeon you find it in (which is almost never the case in TP).

TP has good dungeons and that's it. It absolutely shits the bed in every other aspect and isn't even remotely close to the 64 games.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,072
Miami
The bolded is just flat out wrong. We only have to look at the main gimmick of each title. One has you influencing the wind, not only a part in traversal but also other gameplay aspects like the deku leaf. The other has a shitty wolf transformation that does nothing but make you wish it didn't excist every time it comes up. It adds absolutely nothing positive to the experience.


WW has:
- Better character and enemy designs. Literally every character outside of Midna and Zelda looks ass in TP.

- A better story. Tetra and the pirates are more charming than any character in TP. Ganondorf in WW is the best Ganondorf the series ever had.

- TP has so many shit boss battles. The only good ones were Stallord, Argorok and the final Ganondorf one. Fyrus is an absolute turd and Morpheel doesn't even do anything. While Ghoma in WW isn't too good either, at least it's visually striking. Ghodan, the bird and Molgera are more fun than almost anything in TP.

- The Deku leaf is better than any item in TP, because you can and have to use it outside of the dungeon you find it in (which is almost never the case in TP).

TP has good dungeons and that's it. It absolutely shits the bed in every other aspect and isn't even remotely close to the 64 games.
While I agree moving wind is slightly better than the wolf, the wolf is not terrible. It’s used in great ways in the fourth dungeons and at least it lets you move around quicker, it’s a take on the MM form changing.

Better character design, not gameplay.

Better story, not gameplay.

You are wrong about bosses, they are simply better in TP and more numerous.

Lies, there are plenty of uses for the items in TP outside the dungeons that lead to a small cave or a heart piece. Switching to twilight realm is just as big a world changing item as SLOWLY moving wind.

TP is better designed, has better level design, far more variety. It just does so much more than WW which has a great premise but was very basic with its execution.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,072
Miami
Wind Waker's map becomes fairly systematic once you get a look at it.



This is what I dislike about it. It's just a grid. One square means one island. The rest is almost always just empty water. And when you're in water, your very limited to what you can do. Sailing is just kind of boring and for me, it just started to feel like I was passively sailing the same blue water texture until I found the rock that belonged to that square. There was just so much empty space in between everything and a lot of the time, like you said, you couldn't even do anything or there was hardly much to do.

I preferred Hyrule Field in TP because it was much more condensed. It's not really a huge mass, in fact it's smartly divided into smaller parts and the variety in landmass, altitude, environments, etc. allow it to be more interesting and varied than the same old empty ocean throughout WW.



It was cool how, for example, you could get to Lake Hylia a number of different ways: Ride the river down from Zora's Domain, come through the mountain pass in Southern Hyrule or approach from Castle Town. With Castle Town as the central hub, everything fit together interestingly and funneled into one another in a more organic way rather than just having a grid and putting one main point of interest in each grid. It wasn't flat in the way the Great Sea was, there were levels to things. At least with Epona, I had to consciously steer her around obstacles and through environments. Horseback combat was really fun too. In Wind Waker, I would set the direction of the wind and let go of my controller as I passively sailed to my destination. Even when things like sharks would appear, it was humorous how often they wouldn't even touch me. It wasn't even worth trying to deal with them because using the cannon was boring and cumbersome and used up resources compared to horseback combat.

Also, people really tend to undersell how much there is to do in Hyrule Field. I would argue there is almost as much extra stuff to find and do in TP as there is in Wind Waker. What Wind Waker has in Pirate Outposts and submarines, TP has in hidden grottos and caves. TP has hidden mini dungeons and environmental puzzles that require the use of your dungeon items. You need 5 pieces of heart to get a heart container which means there are more to find and more places to find them. There are bugs and poes to collect too so it's not like there aren't any collectibles like korok seeds. I think it's unfair to compare shrines in BotW to what TP has when TP has 9 full dungeons, a lack of which is what the shrines in BotW literally compensate for. Exploration is much more streamlined in TP but I think that's a strength not a weakness. Exploration in WW easily became boring and too dragged out. The Triforce Hunt was the ultimate limit.
You get it.
 

XandBosch

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,860
The bolded is just flat out wrong. We only have to look at the main gimmick of each title. One has you influencing the wind, not only a part in traversal but also other gameplay aspects like the deku leaf. The other has a shitty wolf transformation that does nothing but make you wish it didn't excist every time it comes up. It adds absolutely nothing positive to the experience.


WW has:
- Better character and enemy designs. Literally every character outside of Midna and Zelda looks ass in TP.

- A better story. Tetra and the pirates are more charming than any character in TP. Ganondorf in WW is the best Ganondorf the series ever had.

- TP has so many shit boss battles. The only good ones were Stallord, Argorok and the final Ganondorf one. Fyrus is an absolute turd and Morpheel doesn't even do anything. While Ghoma in WW isn't too good either, at least it's visually striking. Ghodan, the bird and Molgera are more fun than almost anything in TP.

- The Deku leaf is better than any item in TP, because you can and have to use it outside of the dungeon you find it in (which is almost never the case in TP).

TP has good dungeons and that's it. It absolutely shits the bed in every other aspect and isn't even remotely close to the 64 games. Windwakers artstyle alone is bolder than anything TP ever tried, and the reason for that were all these morons who cried kiddy at WW back then. TP not only played it safe in terms of appeasing OoT fans but also tried way too hard to be edgy in terms of atmosphere.
Thank you for expressing this so succinctly.
 

Kolibri

Member
Nov 6, 2017
622
I like Twilight Princess better than Wind Waker. Have not played Skyward Sword yet.

Tried to finish Wind Waker, but couldn't... Twice. And not because it's too hard, but because I just couldn't make myself play through it.
It does have possibly the most appealing art style out of any Zelda game. Definitely the one that aged the most gracefully (which is why I think the graphical changes in the HD version were largely unnecessary).
 

swsp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
59
The bolded is just flat out wrong. We only have to look at the main gimmick of each title. One has you influencing the wind, not only a part in traversal but also other gameplay aspects like the deku leaf. The other has a shitty wolf transformation that does nothing but make you wish it didn't excist every time it comes up. It adds absolutely nothing positive to the experience.


WW has:
- Better character and enemy designs. Literally every character outside of Midna and Zelda looks ass in TP.

- A better story. Tetra and the pirates are more charming than any character in TP. Ganondorf in WW is the best Ganondorf the series ever had.

- TP has so many shit boss battles. The only good ones were Stallord, Argorok and the final Ganondorf one. Fyrus is an absolute turd and Morpheel doesn't even do anything. While Ghoma in WW isn't too good either, at least it's visually striking. Ghodan, the bird and Molgera are more fun than almost anything in TP.

- The Deku leaf is better than any item in TP, because you can and have to use it outside of the dungeon you find it in (which is almost never the case in TP).

TP has good dungeons and that's it. It absolutely shits the bed in every other aspect and isn't even remotely close to the 64 games. Windwakers artstyle alone is bolder than anything TP ever tried, and the reason for that were all these morons who cried kiddy at WW back then. TP not only played it safe in terms of appeasing OoT fans but also tried way too hard to be edgy in terms of atmosphere.
Nailed it.