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SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
What issues do you have with the game? I always thought the game did a decent job at writing the women characters.

The books are another story, but I never got too angry at them cause high fantasy in general has a problem with writing women. Looking at you Wheel of Time.
Essentially the sexism is almost always on display but never examined.

Ciri sits in the middle of a group of crass men, gets told how weird it is for her to be a woman traveling alone, says she's good at riding horses, to which one of the men says he's never seen a woman ride anything properly other than a cock, to which Ciri's only response is to jovially offer to compete in a competition.

No part of the writing allows room for Ciri's experience of dealing with this kind of thing, nor do any of her reactions even acknowledge what she's facing. As far as her behavior is concerned, she's being treated no different from the men around her.

There is a glaring lack of women represented in any position of power, but again, this is not examined. No one talks about it because it doesn't matter to any of the characters.

At the same time, the sexism is intentionally kept in check so as to keep it tolerable for its target audience. It is used as a tool to make characters less likeable, but it is conveniently absent when the audience is supposed to root for someone.

See also: homophobia. Used to create a sad backstory for an NPC but otherwise completely unacknowledged despite the likelihood that 99% of the people you'd encounter in that setting would be bigoted garbage cans.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,946
Essentially the sexism is almost always on display but never examined.

Ciri sits in the middle of a group of crass men, gets told how weird it is for her to be a woman traveling alone, says she's good at riding horses, to which one of the men says he's never seen a woman ride anything properly other than a cock, to which Ciri's only response is to jovially offer to compete in a competition.

No part of the writing allows room for Ciri's experience of dealing with this kind of thing, nor do any of her reactions even acknowledge what she's facing. As far as her behavior is concerned, she's being treated no different from the men around her.

There is a glaring lack of women represented in any position of power, but again, this is not examined. No one talks about it because it doesn't matter to any of the characters.

At the same time, the sexism is intentionally kept in check so as to keep it tolerable for its target audience. It is used as a tool to make characters less likeable, but it is conveniently absent when the audience is supposed to root for someone.

See also: homophobia. Used to create a sad backstory for an NPC but otherwise completely unacknowledged despite the likelihood that 99% of the people you'd encounter in that setting would be bigoted garbage cans.

Well, sexism was already explored quite a bit in The Witcher 2, especially with regards to women in power. Which is why so many were angry that Saskia, Iorverth, and the city of Vergen didn't reappear in TW3.
 

stn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,592
Having just now seen the first teaser of Cavill as Geralt, they need to go with the bearded look.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,408
Having just now seen the first teaser of Cavill as Geralt, they need to go with the bearded look.

He's got some stubble going on in that pic he posted on insta the other day, so I'd be okay with that at the bare minimum. The clean shaven look he had in the screen test just doesn't work for Geralt IMO. He needs to look rugged, like he's been out in the wilderness a while.
 

flyingman

Banned
Apr 16, 2019
1,678
Really bullshit and i dont get how it is not discussed more none of main characters ( or any side even) are East European and everyone here suddenly okay with this ? (aside from one poster )
 

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,231
There is a glaring lack of women represented in any position of power, but again, this is not examined. No one talks about it because it doesn't matter to any of the characters.

Queen Calanthe? Queen Meve?
I wouldnt say Yennefer lacks power either.

EDIT
Ah you are talking about the games? Even then, again. Queen Meve is fantastic in Thronebraker. Cerys, Yen and Anna Henrietta are also in positions of power in the witcher 3.
 
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misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
3,712
Slovakia
Essentially the sexism is almost always on display but never examined.

Ciri sits in the middle of a group of crass men, gets told how weird it is for her to be a woman traveling alone, says she's good at riding horses, to which one of the men says he's never seen a woman ride anything properly other than a cock, to which Ciri's only response is to jovially offer to compete in a competition.

No part of the writing allows room for Ciri's experience of dealing with this kind of thing, nor do any of her reactions even acknowledge what she's facing. As far as her behavior is concerned, she's being treated no different from the men around her.

There is a glaring lack of women represented in any position of power, but again, this is not examined. No one talks about it because it doesn't matter to any of the characters.

At the same time, the sexism is intentionally kept in check so as to keep it tolerable for its target audience. It is used as a tool to make characters less likeable, but it is conveniently absent when the audience is supposed to root for someone.

See also: homophobia. Used to create a sad backstory for an NPC but otherwise completely unacknowledged despite the likelihood that 99% of the people you'd encounter in that setting would be bigoted garbage cans.

Wait, what? Women in the books and in the games are the most powerful characters.. you have powerful queens, female warriors, sorceresses and most importantly Ciri who is pretty much the main character in the novels, even more than Geralt
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
Yeah, I dont really see where his is coming from.
You have a treasure trove of articles written about The Witcher coverings a multitude of reasons why it is sexist at your finger tips, yet...

VoybKby.jpg
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
3,712
Slovakia
You have a treasure trove of articles written about The Witcher coverings a multitude of reasons why it is sexist at your finger tips, yet...

VoybKby.jpg

The fact that the books can be and the games have moments of sexism in them doesn't erase another fact and that fact is that the books and games have some great written female characters and that they are very powerful in a world which is very sexist because it's another version of our own medieval world
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
The fact that the books can be and the games have moments of sexism in them doesn't erase another fact and that fact is that the books and games have some great written female characters and that they are very powerful in a world which is very sexist because it's another version of our own medieval world
If your response to pointing out a lack of women in positions of power is to effectively reference power levels you're definitely not getting it.
 

Braag

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,908
Witcher 3 is kinda funny in the sense that you have a certain group of people calling it sexist and problematic and another group of people calling it too woke and progressive.
In the end, it's a super popular game and people are going to have strong opinions about it from both ends of the spectrum and there will be dozens upon dozens of articles written about it because it's so popular and clicks are important.
 

TheLucasLite

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,446
For a 90's series, the sexism in the books is rather subdued, but only in a relative sense. And when it comes to having women with agency and power (Sorceresses lodge, queen Calanthe, Anna Henrietta, etc.) it's actually better than other fantasy series of the time. A lot of this is absent in the games however, and female characters having agency gets conflated in the writing with a female character often just being a bitch, which is not good.

Sexual gratuity in the books is also a lot less frequent. Only one scene comes to mind really.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,951
The witcher tv serie is just destined to failed because they follow the books and most of the fans only player W3 and won't bother open a book....
I fully expect a lot of people to be surprised at how weak Geralt's Signs are compared to the game's Geralt (assuming the show doesn't also massively buff them up too), but I don't think that'd be a death sentence if it's actually good.
 

lemonade

Member
May 8, 2018
3,044
Why does some people that only started the game a week ago and have never read a book, proceeds to call the games and books sexist?

This level of willful ignorance and confirmation bias is worrying.
 

luca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,500
When is the release date?
Q4 2019. We don't have a precise release date yet.

I only got 70 pages left of my current book, so I'll be starting up 'The Last Wish' pretty soon. I don't have that much of a relation to the games. Hearing that the short story collections are more 'talk' than 'action' is right up my alley.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,261
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lemonade

Member
May 8, 2018
3,044
Articles like these? https://kotaku.com/the-complicated-women-of-the-witcher-3-1711003491 (spoiler: it's a positive one)

This is really a terrible and condescending way to lead an argument

It's written by a man. How dare you educate sexism based on the writing of a man?

/s

Both the books and the games have plenty of stories about powerful women. That poster decided to label the whole franchise as sexist after a early cut-scene with Baron shows that there was no intention of actually knowing the story and history of the universe. Just confirmation bias to find things to get pissed about.

Even the scene in question was not sexist from a story perspective. Yes the Baron and his men were sexist. Ciri proceeds to beat their ass in a horse race and showed them who is boss. Just because Ciri didn't stand up yelling angrily and chose action over words doesn't mean this scene is sexist.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,261
There's no reason for them to be Eastern European. Dandelion is the only member of the main cast who's remotely Pole-ish (well, more so now that they've randomly given him the untranslated Polish name). This world was always a mishmash of European cultures, mostly angled toward the west, they shouldn't make it less so just because that's where it originates from.
Doesn't the position Aedirn finds itself in strongly resemble the situation Poland found itself in World War 2? I find it pretty hard to distance the story from its country of origin.


I'd be totally on board with this level of beard.
 

anyprophet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
941
Why does some people that only started the game a week ago and have never read a book, proceeds to call the games and books sexist?

This level of willful ignorance and confirmation bias is worrying.
because they are? they're antifeminist screeds or anything. but it's obviously written by dudes who haven't spent any time thinking about the portrayal of women in fantasy and the pitfalls of fantasy tropes.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,610
I don't think a bit of stubble would be a problem for Geralt. It was when it started to grow into a full-on beard that he started complaining.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
Yeah I think while cavill isn't a lot of peoples first choice, hes a big fan of the series, hes going to give it his best which I think will be pretty good.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Looked at a lot of talk regarding the look of some characters not being a fit, especially with Triss.

Ultimately, as someone else mentioned as well, I don't really care about certain liberties being taken with their look. Just so long as the writing and performances bring The Witcher to life proper.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
I'm not sure how you managed to so wildly miss the point. "Listen to women" doesn't mean "come up with an example of one dude that disagrees with women"

This is really a terrible and condescending way to lead an argument.
Stop pretending that "civility" leads to change. It doesn't. People have been nice to men about sexism for centuries and it did fuck all.

Edit: also like how you threw in a "no, it's the women who are wrong" while you're male.
Then let me illuminate you as to how this works. My views about sexism are not defined by:

a) My personal experience about what sexism feels like for women
b) Male journalists
c) Game development studios dominated by men

This isn't that difficult. Women have been explaining sexism to men for forever. All you have to do is listen.
 

Flipyap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,489
Witcher 3 is kinda funny in the sense that you have a certain group of people calling it sexist and problematic and another group of people calling it too woke and progressive.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone say the latter about The Witcher 3. That sounds more like something people would say about BioWare's games.

Doesn't the position Aedirn finds itself in strongly resemble the situation Poland found itself in World War 2? I find it pretty hard to distance the story from its country of origin.
The setting is peppered with events that mirror the history of Poland because it was written from a Pole's perspective, but that doesn't turn a clearly Germanic kingdom like Aedirn into a stand-in for Poland.
Even Redania, which on its face looks like a direct analogue for Poland, is a melting pot of Europeanness. All those elements that evoke its country of origin aren't going to go away just because they didn't cast Eastern European actors in main roles for no good reason.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,261
I'm not sure how you managed to so wildly miss the point. "Listen to women" doesn't mean "come up with an example of one dude that disagrees with women"
You only talked about tons of articles being out there, not that they have to be written by women.

Stop pretending that "civility" leads to change. It doesn't. People have been nice to men about sexism for centuries and it did fuck all.
Dropping some dumb meme isn't going to change anyone minds. Don't act like you committed some great act of civil disobedience against the establishment.

Then let me illuminate you as to how this works. My views about sexism are not defined by:

a) My personal experience about what sexism feels like for women
b) Male journalists
c) Game development studios dominated by men

This isn't that difficult. Women have been explaining sexism to men for forever. All you have to do is listen.
So why should we listen to you then?
 

Edgar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,180
I'm not sure how you managed to so wildly miss the point. "Listen to women" doesn't mean "come up with an example of one dude that disagrees with women"


Stop pretending that "civility" leads to change. It doesn't. People have been nice to men about sexism for centuries and it did fuck all.


Then let me illuminate you as to how this works. My views about sexism are not defined by:

a) My personal experience about what sexism feels like for women
b) Male journalists
c) Game development studios dominated by men

This isn't that difficult. Women have been explaining sexism to men for forever. All you have to do is listen.
then read and listen , spoilers obv.
link
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,261
The setting is peppered with events that mirror the history of Poland because it was written from a Pole's perspective, but that doesn't turn a clearly Germanic kingdom like Aedirn into a stand-in for Poland.
Even Redania, which on its face looks like a direct analogue for Poland, is a melting pot of Europeanness. All those elements that evoke its country of origin aren't going to go away just because they didn't cast Eastern European actors in main roles for no good reason.
They don't have to cast anyone eastern European, but it would be a nice gesture for obvious reasons.
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
I fully expect a lot of people to be surprised at how weak Geralt's Signs are compared to the game's Geralt (assuming the show doesn't also massively buff them up too), but I don't think that'd be a death sentence if it's actually good.
That's okay, for me, he was always more into sword play
 

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,613
USA
Q4 2019. We don't have a precise release date yet.

I only got 70 pages left of my current book, so I'll be starting up 'The Last Wish' pretty soon. I don't have that much of a relation to the games. Hearing that the short story collections are more 'talk' than 'action' is right up my alley.

The Last Wish is good. Haven't started the second one yet.
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
When do we expect to see a teaser or trailer of some kind? Not the shitty kind with just fonts and voiceovers. And certainly not the embarassing first take from Henry Cavil trying to do an impersonation in a bad wig.
 

Jay Shadow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,604
When do we expect to see a teaser or trailer of some kind? Not the shitty kind with just fonts and voiceovers. And certainly not the embarassing first take from Henry Cavil trying to do an impersonation in a bad wig.
Maybe some images along with a release date announcement in the summer, but I wouldn't expect a trailer until a few months before release. That seems to be Netflix's strategy on new shows these days. Sabrina was a month and a half. Umbrella Academy was 2 months. Maniac was 2 months. Smaller stuff like Russian Doll, Love Death + Robots, and Sex Education were all 1 month. They have so many shows to promote in the short term every month that they don't really do a lot of longer promotions.
 

Braag

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,908
So apparently this is how the Nilfgaardian armor will look like.. It has all ready been named the "ballsack armor" by some.
Most of these things obviously will look much better after post production so hopefully it doesn't look so much like plastic in the end.

 

Terminus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,874
So apparently this is how the Nilfgaardian armor will look like.. It has all ready been named the "ballsack armor".
Most of these things obviously will look much better after post production so hopefully it doesn't look so much like plastic in the end.



What is that material even supposed to be?
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
So apparently this is how the Nilfgaardian armor will look like.. It has all ready been named the "ballsack armor" by some.
Most of these things obviously will look much better after post production so hopefully it doesn't look so much like plastic in the end.


The show always has a chance to have issues, but I wouldn't be too concerned about how bad or dorky costumes look from behind the scenes videos/pics since editing can do miracles.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
So apparently this is how the Nilfgaardian armor will look like.. It has all ready been named the "ballsack armor" by some.
Most of these things obviously will look much better after post production so hopefully it doesn't look so much like plastic in the end.


People should really stop posting behind the scenes leak stuff. Netflix consistently has really pretty shows. It is very unlikely that the witcher will be an exception.
 

Lowrys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,330
London
So apparently this is how the Nilfgaardian armor will look like.. It has all ready been named the "ballsack armor" by some.
Most of these things obviously will look much better after post production so hopefully it doesn't look so much like plastic in the end.


Well that looks fucking ridiculous. It looks like bloody plastic.
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Yep this is not an issue. Good lighting and post production is all it takes. Even Game of Thrones behind the scenes look like glorified cosplay.
 
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