Theory: Starfox Grand Prix never existed

[Skittzo]

If it's a year after release, I think that's fine. They all saw an opportunity to make money, it sold far better on switch than the other platforms AFAIK, and now they have a racing tie in with a star fox racer being released this fall. That would make sense to me, and I really didn't even believe this rumor was true or false until the starlink footage was shown. Because of it's instant failure, it isn't the type of game that would see this kind of almost spin-off support, it at best would see a small expansion, but new modes should be out of the question for a 6 month old game that bargain binned.

To me, it only makes sense if star fox GP is real, but it's not like your logic is unsound, I know what you are saying happens, and I know false information is created and given to insiders to leak, but this seems very different than those things, and Retro's title should be done. I mean we've seen ex retro employees say the game should be done soon, and Nintendo has been trying to figure out what to do with Star Fox and F Zero for a long time, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Retro had worked on something this past 5 years among those IPs.

Click to shrink...

Again we don't even know if this is a new mode. It could just be a side mission where you need to race a certain character. And it could have been in development long before they knew the game would bomb, in fact it probably was. I don't think this new mode is evidence that Starfox GP does exist... that line of thinking just doesn't make much sense to me.

As far as Retro being done, yeah it's likely they're done or almost done a game. I hope we do see it at this E3 because I can't imagine them revealing it any later, due to fans' expectations going to MP4 after that like you mentioned earlier. But just because they (hopefully) have a game done and ready doesn't mean it's this particular game that has been rumored. It might be something entirely different.

 

[TDLink]

Star Fox: Grand Prix is something that I heard of back in April, 2018, and the information was shared by the same people who told me about the previous game (which was ultimately, only a proposal). Without learning anything more concrete in the last 10 months, all I can say is that at the very least, SF:GP was a proposal of sorts between parties including Nintendo and Retro Studios...and at the most, a game that is wrapping up development, close to release. That is truly a gargantuan window of possibility in between, unfortunately.

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I don't think we're going to get better "insider info" than this at this point in time. And this alone makes the entire premise of this topic bunk. Even if the project never actually developed, the fact that it existed as a proposal AT MINIMUM means there is no possible way there is "confusion" between this Retro project and Starlink.

However it's still possible that someone heard a pitch about a Retro Starfox racing game, then saw footage of Starfox in Starlink and confused the two titles. That may even be a likelier theory at the moment now that I think about it.

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This still does not make sense. The rumor was a lot more than just "Retro is making a Star Fox racing game". Eurogamer and others ran with a lot of details that all sound nothing like Starlink in any way.

I mean, I considered this and sorta danced around it in the OP. If Starfox GP is real and is not cancelled then Nintendo will be launching a Starfox racing game right after allowing Ubisoft to use Starfox in a game that has racing. It would completely kill the point of the partnership with Ubisoft.

If Starlink didn't bomb how do you think Ubisoft would react to learning that Nintendo has their own Starfox racing game -which would kill whatever legs Starlink had (on the Switch at least)- coming soon?

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Completely disagree with this. Ubisoft doesn't care about legs at all. That's why they price drop their games very quickly and consistently. After the FY the game comes out in, they move on fairly quickly. You can look at any release they make to see this is true.

It is completely rational though that because of the partnership Nintendo would give Ubisoft the space they need and not try to market a different Star Fox project. If there is hypothetically a AAA Star Fox project from Retro studios, the whole point of the Starlink partnership loses its luster because people are going to wait for the "real star fox". This upcoming update will clearly be the last content for Starlink, following the same pattern as all of Ubisoft's releases. Two months later, at E3, it's going to sell all it was ever going to sell at their initial price point. Ubisoft will have a "Gold Edition" with everything in it price dropped to less than the MSRP for the original base game. And Nintendo can then safely begin to market their own Star Fox game. It all lines up.

Of course, the Star Fox game might not release. It might have been cancelled. That is a distinct possibility. And I think it's a possibility we have to consider if the game isn't revealed at E3. But so far, there is nothing to actually indicate it doesn't exist. When the rumors first broke no one said it would be something announced in 2018. And with Starlink it makes sense that it wasn't. But the entire theory that this doesn't exist is contingent on some confusion between it and Starlink, which I just do not believe is true based on what exactly the rumor stated. Starlink is the perfect reasoning for WHY this hasn't been shown yet, not what the rumor was talking about in any way.

 

[What-ok]

It weren't never there.

 

[Skittzo]

This still does not make sense. The rumor was a lot more than just "Retro is making a Star Fox racing game". Eurogamer and others ran with a lot of details that all sound nothing like Starlink in any way..

Click to shrink...

I don't think you're understanding my argument. Yes, you're right that the rumors were more than just "Starfox plus racing". There were rumors about missions, combat, boss battles, a story mode, a hub world where you interact with characters and get missions, and then from Liam specifically there were the rumors that shooting enemies would propel you forward and that each Grand Prix was 3 races culminating in a boss battle at the end. I know what the rumors are.

Basically everything outside of Liam's bits is present in Starlink in some way. There is space combat, there are boss battles, there's a story, there's a hub ship where characters interact in cutscenes and get missions. All of that is in the game. And now we know racing is also in the game.

My theory (the original one) is that somebody saw footage of all of these various things, the racing, the combat, the boss battles, the cutscenes, with no context regarding the game or the developer. This other theory is more or less the same- somebody saw footage of all of this stuff with no context, but at the same time also knew that a Starfox racing game had one time been pitched to Retro.

If you see footage of Arwings racing, participating in boss battles, cutscenes with Fox and such, a hub ship, all of that, and didn't know what game this came from but did know that- at one time Retro had been pitched a Starfox racing game- your natural assumption would be that this footage is in fact from this game.

Yes, racing may be a very small part of what they saw in this footage (or maybe they didn't see it at all) but they had the prior knowledge that a Starfox racing game was possibly in the works, so they connected this unknown footage to that project.

That's theory #2.

Completely disagree with this. Ubisoft doesn't care about legs at all. That's why they price drop their games very quickly and consistently. After the FY the game comes out in, they move on fairly quickly. You can look at any release they make to see this is true.

It is completely rational though that because of the partnership Nintendo would give Ubisoft the space they need and not try to market a different Star Fox project. If there is hypothetically a AAA Star Fox project from Retro studios, the whole point of the Starlink partnership loses its luster because people are going to wait for the "real star fox". This upcoming update will clearly be the last content for Starlink, following the same pattern as all of Ubisoft's releases. Two months later, at E3, it's going to sell all it was ever going to sell at their initial price point. Ubisoft will have a "Gold Edition" with everything in it price dropped to less than the MSRP for the original base game. And Nintendo can then safely begin to market their own Star Fox game. It all lines up.

Of course, the Star Fox game might not release. It might have been cancelled. That is a distinct possibility. And I think it's a possibility we have to consider if the game isn't revealed at E3. But so far, there is nothing to actually indicate it doesn't exist. When the rumors first broke no one said it would be something announced in 2018. And with Starlink it makes sense that it wasn't. But the entire theory that this doesn't exist is contingent on some confusion between it and Starlink, which I just do not believe is true based on what exactly the rumor stated. Starlink is the perfect reasoning for WHY this hasn't been shown yet, not what the rumor was talking about in any way.

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If what you're saying is true and they're going to put out a "Gold Edition" of this game including all of the DLC, when exactly do you expect that announcement? If it happens anytime this year a Starfox GP announcement at E3 makes no sense, since that would completely undercut this game. Nobody would buy the knockoff Ubisoft version when a new Nintendo version is coming.

 

[TDLink]

I don't think you're understanding my argument. Yes, you're right that the rumors were more than just "Starfox plus racing". There were rumors about missions, combat, boss battles, a story mode, a hub world where you interact with characters and get missions, and then from Liam specifically there were the rumors that shooting enemies would propel you forward and that each Grand Prix was 3 races culminating in a boss battle at the end. I know what the rumors are.

Basically everything outside of Liam's bits is present in Starlink in some way. There is space combat, there are boss battles, there's a story, there's a hub ship where characters interact in cutscenes and get missions. All of that is in the game. And now we know racing is also in the game.

My theory (the original one) is that somebody saw footage of all of these various things, the racing, the combat, the boss battles, the cutscenes, with no context regarding the game or the developer. This other theory is more or less the same- somebody saw footage of all of this stuff with no context, but at the same time also knew that a Starfox racing game had one time been pitched to Retro.

If you see footage of Arwings racing, participating in boss battles, cutscenes with Fox and such, a hub ship, all of that, and didn't know what game this came from but did know that- at one time Retro had been pitched a Starfox racing game- your natural assumption would be that this footage is in fact from this game.

Yes, racing may be a very small part of what they saw in this footage (or maybe they didn't see it at all) but they had the prior knowledge that a Starfox racing game was possibly in the works, so they connected this unknown footage to that project.

That's theory #2.

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I think you really have to fudge the details of the rumor to align them with what Starlink offers. The rumor made it sound like the "races" were still somewhat traditional Star Fox courses with multiple people, not literally a grounded "traditional" race track with ships like the Starlink DLC -- and that there would be bosses at the end of these courses, not that there were just boss battles somewhere in the game. Of course "missions" and "Story mode" are so vague that they can apply to many different games... but a "hub world" gives the impression of something a bit larger scale than Starlink's "hub ship" as well.

Ultimately, even if these things DID line up (and I don't think they do), I just don't believe anyone enough in the know to be a source that would generate these rumors, and cause reliable outlets like Eurogamer to run the story, would conflate an Ubisoft project and a Retro Studios project.

If what you're saying is true and they're going to put out a "Gold Edition" of this game including all of the DLC, when exactly do you expect that announcement? If it happens anytime this year a Starfox GP announcement at E3 makes no sense, since that would completely undercut this game. Nobody would buy the knockoff Ubisoft version when a new Nintendo version is coming.

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So to clarify, I don't think the "Gold Edition" will necessarily be a new retail release that needs to be announced. I mean like what they did with Mario and Rabbids (for example) on the eshop where there is a "Gold Edition" which is the base game + Donkey Kong Adventure expansion together. Nintendo themselves have also done these eshop bundles with games like BOTW, Xenoblade 2, and even as of this direct Captain Toad. The difference between Nintendo and Ubisoft is that Nintendo basically never price drops their stuff except on extremely rare occasions due to their evergreen mantra... they DO care about a game's legs. Ubisoft will price drop ferociously pretty fast -- again using Mario and Rabbids as an example since it's on the platform, the "Gold Edition" routinely is on sale for $40 or less now. The base version has an even steeper discount regularly.

Basically by time they're deep discounting this base game + dlc bundle on the eshop around E3 (and two months after it releases they certainly will be), they no longer really care about the game's "legs" at their initial price offering. The base Starlink has ALREADY seen steep discounts in this style -- because it's Ubisoft's normal MO. At that point Nintendo potentially marketing another Star Fox game doesn't hurt the project they partnered with Ubisoft on in any way.

 

[Dark Cloud]

If I don't see a Retro game by E3 then I fucking give up worrying if they have another game. I'll just assume everything was canceled and they're only doing MP4.

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

Starfox Grandprix or not I am excited about the Starfox racing in Starlink.

 

[Skittzo]

I think you really have to fudge the details of the rumor to align them with what Starlink offers. The rumor made it sound like the "races" were still somewhat traditional Star Fox courses with multiple people, not literally a grounded "traditional" race track with ships like the Starlink DLC -- and that there would be bosses at the end of these courses, not that there were just boss battles somewhere in the game. Of course "missions" and "Story mode" are so vague that they can apply to many different games... but a "hub world" gives the impression of something a bit larger scale than Starlink's "hub ship" as well.

Ultimately, even if these things DID line up (and I don't think they do), I just don't believe anyone enough in the know to be a source that would generate these rumors, and cause reliable outlets like Eurogamer to run the story, would conflate an Ubisoft project and a Retro Studios project.

Click to shrink...

Think back to each of the actual rumors we got. Nobody was able to give details like you're claiming (traditional Starfox courses versus grounded race tracks) outside of Liam Robertson. Every other outlet that reported on this rumor kept it very vague, saying it would have racing but also a story mode, bosses, a hub mode, and missions.

And again, if this entire rumor comes back to someone who saw footage of the rumored game, it's very possible they would see cutscenes in the interior of a hub ship and call it a hub world. I mean, most of us assumed that rumored hub would be Great Fox anyway.

So everything that has been rumored outside of what Liam has said could be seen in Starlink footage. That brings us to Liam. He has been the only one adamantly defending this rumor, when others like Emily and Jason seem to think it's possible it's not even real. The fact that he has shared these specific details leads me to one of two conclusions:

1) He has much, much more concrete evidence than anyone else does or

2) He has placed far more faith into whatever source he has than anyone else.

It could be either one, but #2 would explain why the details he shared don't line up with my theory.

So to clarify, I don't think the "Gold Edition" will necessarily be a new retail release that needs to be announced. I mean like what they did with Mario and Rabbids (for example) on the eshop where there is a "Gold Edition" which is the base game + Donkey Kong Adventure expansion together. Nintendo themselves have also done these eshop bundles with games like BOTW, Xenoblade 2, and even as of this direct Captain Toad. The difference between Nintendo and Ubisoft is that Nintendo basically never price drops their stuff except on extremely rare occasions due to their evergreen mantra... they DO care about a game's legs. Ubisoft will price drop ferociously pretty fast -- again using Mario and Rabbids as an example since it's on the platform, the "Gold Edition" routinely is on sale for $40 or less now. The base version has an even steeper discount regularly.

Basically by time they're deep discounting this base game + dlc bundle on the eshop around E3 (and two months after it releases they certainly will be), they no longer really care about the game's "legs" at their initial price offering. The base Starlink has ALREADY seen steep discounts in this style -- because it's Ubisoft's normal MO. At that point Nintendo potentially marketing another Star Fox game doesn't hurt the project they partnered with Ubisoft on in any way.

Click to shrink...

I see what you're saying. Yeah Ubisoft has already discounted the deluxe bundle, which has all of the DLC I believe. This April update appears to be free so it wouldn't be a new thing to add to a bundle.

But yes, you make a good point. They wouldn't really care about a potential Starfox GP chopping off their legs. It's just very, very odd timing to be releasing a racing mode in April potentially 2 months before Starfox GP is announced. The timing of that is very fishy.

 

[jnWake]

Random conspiracy theory: What if Retro actually developed DKCR3 but they've been holding its reveal until they could show MP4 to avoid any "Retro working on fucking DK" meltdowns again but MP4 delay ruined everything.

 

[PaulGaleNetwork]

I don't think we're going to get better "insider info" than this at this point in time. And this alone makes the entire premise of this topic bunk. Even if the project never actually developed, the fact that it existed as a proposal AT MINIMUM means there is no possible way there is "confusion" between this Retro project and Starlink.



This still does not make sense. The rumor was a lot more than just "Retro is making a Star Fox racing game". Eurogamer and others ran with a lot of details that all sound nothing like Starlink in any way.



Completely disagree with this. Ubisoft doesn't care about legs at all. That's why they price drop their games very quickly and consistently. After the FY the game comes out in, they move on fairly quickly. You can look at any release they make to see this is true.

It is completely rational though that because of the partnership Nintendo would give Ubisoft the space they need and not try to market a different Star Fox project. If there is hypothetically a AAA Star Fox project from Retro studios, the whole point of the Starlink partnership loses its luster because people are going to wait for the "real star fox". This upcoming update will clearly be the last content for Starlink, following the same pattern as all of Ubisoft's releases. Two months later, at E3, it's going to sell all it was ever going to sell at their initial price point. Ubisoft will have a "Gold Edition" with everything in it price dropped to less than the MSRP for the original base game. And Nintendo can then safely begin to market their own Star Fox game. It all lines up.

Of course, the Star Fox game might not release. It might have been cancelled. That is a distinct possibility. And I think it's a possibility we have to consider if the game isn't revealed at E3. But so far, there is nothing to actually indicate it doesn't exist. When the rumors first broke no one said it would be something announced in 2018. And with Starlink it makes sense that it wasn't. But the entire theory that this doesn't exist is contingent on some confusion between it and Starlink, which I just do not believe is true based on what exactly the rumor stated. Starlink is the perfect reasoning for WHY this hasn't been shown yet, not what the rumor was talking about in any way.

Click to shrink...

It is possible that Grand Prix was proposed but never put into development, like with Fusion Saga, so when Ubisoft and Nintendo began talking about SF's inclusion in Starlink, Big N shared concepts of both of their games that never went into development so that elements of each may live on in this third-party offering.

Of course, this game could be in development as we speak but its timing just does not bode well with the release of Starlink and despite a potentially long development cycle, is not ready yet.

I would like to think it's the latter of the two.

 

[DecoReturns]

Hey. Even if retro end up having cancellations for the past 5 years, at least Nintendo didn't shut them down and laid people off?

(Positive thinking).


Tho personally, I'm gonna wait until E3 this year (I know, we've said this too many times before lol). It's such a fascinating story honestly, with Prime 4 and Silence.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Random conspiracy theory: What if Retro actually developed DKCR3 but they've been holding its reveal until they could show MP4 to avoid any "Retro working on fucking DK" meltdowns again but MP4 delay ruined everything.

Click to shrink...

I think the safe bet is they're definitely doing some kind of DK game. Maybe they were starting to see problem in their first project and decided to go with something they knew and started DK in 2016.

Because if you're having troubles with an experimental project then why would you try another experimental project after that? Nintendo is watching over you and want results results results. So do something like DK because you know you will produce results.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Hey. Even if retro end up having cancellations for the past 5 years, at least Nintendo didn't shut them down and laid people off?

(Positive thinking).


Tho personally, I'm gonna wait until E3 this year (I know, we've said this too many times before lol). It's such a fascinating story honestly, with Prime 4 and Silence.

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The greatest thing about Nintendo is they will not close their studios down. No matter how many troubles they've had like NST or seemingly Retro. They'll let them go through it. No matter if Nintendo is losing money Iwata cut his pay in half and some other top executives. You just don't see this.

 

[Deleted member 426]

This will sound rude, so sorry, but this is exactly the question we should be asking about insiders. How reputable is Paul Gale? Or rather how good of a track record does his sources have?

Because at this point it's clear that even a lot of insiders saying the same thing is evidence of nothing. Has anything Paul Gale said come to fruition? Or have previous leaks just been corroborated, because the latter is far from fool proof.

Again not wanting to be rude, but it's clear that things that might seem real could still be a result of miscommunication.

 

[RainRainRain]

I might get some shit for this, but I was always hoping this was fake or cancelled.

Star Fox needs to be revived with a good main series game. Yes I know it's been ages since SF64, but I still think it's possible to make a good sequel, that isn't some lazy motion-control happy reboot like SFZ was.

To make us wait that long and then pull out some random spinoff to tide things over, didn't sit to well with me.

 

[ClickyCal']

I might get some shit for this, but I was always hoping this was fake or cancelled.

Star Fox needs to be revived with a good main series game. Yes I know it's been ages since SF64, but I still think it's possible to make a good sequel, that isn't some lazy motion-control happy reboot like SFZ was.

To make us wait that long and then pull out some random spinoff to tide things over, didn't sit to well with me.

Click to shrink...

Most would say Assault was a good sequel that didn't just completely rehash.

 

[YolkFolk]

Most would say Assault was a good sequel that didn't just completely rehash.

Click to shrink...

Not sure about 'most'. The on foot stages were average to awful.

 

[TDLink]

So everything that has been rumored outside of what Liam has said could be seen in Starlink footage. That brings us to Liam. He has been the only one adamantly defending this rumor, when others like Emily and Jason seem to think it's possible it's not even real. The fact that he has shared these specific details leads me to one of two conclusions:

Click to shrink...

Beyond any of the insiders (or "insiders" in Liam's case) that you're talking about here, I think it's important to consider why this rumor blew up in the first place: Eurogamer running the story. And they/Tom Phillips have not commented since then at all. Even Kotaku's article seems like it was partially put up because of Eurogamer's faith in the story. So even if "Emily and Jason think it's possible it's not even real", that still doesn't mean it isn't real. They aren't even saying it isn't real with that statement, just that it's possible... which means it is still also very possible the original story was accurate. Basically, I'd like to see Eurogamer comment with a similar line of thinking to begin to even entertain the idea that it was all bunk since I think they are the most official originators of the story.

It is possible that Grand Prix was proposed but never put into development, like with Fusion Saga, so when Ubisoft and Nintendo began talking about SF's inclusion in Starlink, Big N shared concepts of both of their games that never went into development so that elements of each may live on in this third-party offering.

Of course, this game could be in development as we speak but its timing just does not bode well with the release of Starlink and despite a potentially long development cycle, is not ready yet.

I would like to think it's the latter of the two.

Click to shrink...

I completely agree with this here. I'm hopeful it's the latter. Alternatively, I am perfectly alright if SF GP does not happen at all -- but I do want Retro to have been working on something these last five years that will release and be a tangible project.

 

[byDoS]

I went from "Star Fox GP is very likely to be shown at this year's E3" to "I can't believe I trusted this hoax for so long" lol

At least I had my fair share of fun with it.

 

[RainRainRain]

Most would say Assault was a good sequel that didn't just completely rehash.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I just didn't mention that game because it seems to be way more controversial compared to SF64, who everyone seems to agree is "good"

Even so, it has still been forever since a good mainline Starfox, even with Assault on the table.

 

[ClickyCal']

I'm not going to get past the fact that nintendo spent a year and a half+ and probably millions on prime 4, to completely scrap it and have the big announcement video of that, to give it to retro to start over completely on after they had one or maybe even two scrapped games on their own.

 

[Skittzo]

Beyond any of the insiders (or "insiders" in Liam's case) that you're talking about here, I think it's important to consider why this rumor blew up in the first place: Eurogamer running the story. And they/Tom Phillips have not commented since then at all. Even Kotaku's article seems like it was partially put up because of Eurogamer's faith in the story. So even if "Emily and Jason think it's possible it's not even real", that still doesn't mean it isn't real. They aren't even saying it isn't real with that statement, just that it's possible... which means it is still also very possible the original story was accurate. Basically, I'd like to see Eurogamer comment with a similar line of thinking to begin to even entertain the idea that it was all bunk since I think they are the most official originators of the story.

Click to shrink...

Look over what Eurogamer said again:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...retro-studios-making-star-fox-racing-spin-off

A round of internet leaks has suggested Nintendo's Retro Studios - developer of the Metroid Prime trilogy - is working on a Star Fox racing spin-off.

The leaks appeared online over the weekend on reddit and 4chan, and were then reported this morning on multiple gaming sites and blogs.

So, what do we believe? Well, as improbable as Retro making a Star Fox racing spin-off may sound, Eurogamer sources have heard similar.

Details posted to reddit by user DasVergeben, who has a patchy record, touted Retro's Star Fox project as a racing game "like Diddy Kong Racing mixed with F-Zero".

"It will have an adventure mode of some kind (think Diddy Kong Racing) and there will be some boss fights and a hub world like it too.

"It is called Star Fox Grand Prix."

While I hadn't heard the name - and don't know if that is accurate or final - other details line up with what I have heard. The Star Fox series is traditionally a space (and sometimes land) based vehicle shooter, although it has dabbled in various other genres before.

Shortly after the reddit post went live, a logo for Star Fox Grand Prix separately appeared on 4chan, that home of reliable video game leaks. Again, I've not heard that name specifically, but the rest of the details line up.

Click to shrink...

(Emphasis added)


Basically Tom is saying the rumors already out there are similar to things he's heard. He doesn't mention how confident he is in these sources, or in the rumor itself, just that he has heard similar things from sources. And he doesn't offer up any new details about the game.

I do agree that it would be nice to get a comment from him but I didn't make this thread to bother insiders or reporters and ask for an update on it. If he wants to look into again that's his call.

 

[TDLink]

Look over what Eurogamer said again:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...retro-studios-making-star-fox-racing-spin-off


(Emphasis added)


Basically Tom is saying the rumors already out there are similar to things he's heard. He doesn't mention how confident he is in these sources, or in the rumor itself, just that he has heard similar things from sources. And he doesn't offer up any new details about the game.

I do agree that it would be nice to get a comment from him but I didn't make this thread to bother insiders or reporters and ask for an update on it. If he wants to look into again that's his call.

Click to shrink...

Right. The rumors showed up online prior to Eurogamer running the story, and he says as much in the article. But the fact that he has sources reliable enough to run the story in the first place, that corroborate that information, is what takes it out of the realm of baseless internet rumor and into the realm of a potential real leak. The confidence he has in the source is inherent by him running the story.

And by the way, I am not saying Tom or anyone from Eurogamer needs to comment on this story further at all. I am not into pestering journalists and insiders. What I am saying though is that without their comment, we can't jump to the conclusion that this whole thing was bunk. Emily's and Jason's confidence in this (and their own sources) may or may not have been bolstered by the fact that Tom ran the story. So their confidence wavering isn't definitive of anything without knowing if Tom's confidence has wavered.

 

[Deleted member 1413]

I'm very open to being wrong about this. In fact I'm very confident that the hypothetical scenario I laid out in the OP is not what happened

Click to shrink...

Then why make a thread on an idea you're pretty sure did not happened?

But, yeah, era postings probably aren't worthy of an article especially to ridicule individuals

 

[z0m3le]

Look over what Eurogamer said again:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...retro-studios-making-star-fox-racing-spin-off


(Emphasis added)


Basically Tom is saying the rumors already out there are similar to things he's heard. He doesn't mention how confident he is in these sources, or in the rumor itself, just that he has heard similar things from sources. And he doesn't offer up any new details about the game.

I do agree that it would be nice to get a comment from him but I didn't make this thread to bother insiders or reporters and ask for an update on it. If he wants to look into again that's his call.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but isn't it weird that starlink would be boiled down to a Starfox racer over a year ago? I mean if it's not a big mode like you think, it probably wasn't in the game yet at the time of that article, and if it's a bigger mode, it's really weird that it launches 6 months after the game's release. I think it makes more sense (slightly) that it's there because of star fox GP, than it was just the only thing someone saw of the game and decided it was a racer. Also if it leaked from Ubisoft, the person who saw it would likely know it came from Ubisoft.

There is just more assumptions, but it is possible. Good news is, it's the middle of February and we will have an answer in 4 months, no time at all.

 

[PaulGaleNetwork]

This will sound rude, so sorry, but this is exactly the question we should be asking about insiders. How reputable is Paul Gale? Or rather how good of a track record does his sources have?

Because at this point it's clear that even a lot of insiders saying the same thing is evidence of nothing. Has anything Paul Gale said come to fruition? Or have previous leaks just been corroborated, because the latter is far from fool proof.

Again not wanting to be rude, but it's clear that things that might seem real could still be a result of miscommunication.

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I have been to every E3 from 2000-2018, with this year being my 20th time attending, and during the earlier years when being at the show on behalf of Ziff-Davis Publishing, Gamers.com, and 1Up.com, I met many developers, artists, and other people involved with video game creation/marketing/etc.

It also helps that living in Los Angeles, puts me close to a good amount of studios. Some I have visited, others I have gone to their events, and there are those that I just know people that work at.

From the beginning of my Paul Gale Network days, there was overlap in still working for 1Up.com and Bitmob.com, for a few years, but my contacts remained the same and have only increased since. That being said, even if I am friends with someone working in a company, it is very rare to get something as nondisclosure agreements are a serious thing and it's on my part to distinguish friendships from sources and what to respect as private news versus what is allowed to be shared as an exclusive.

There are also a number of rumors that come my way, the majority of which turned out to be bogus, making me glad that I never put them up in the first place. These don't necessarily come from well-developed contacts, which is why am less likely to put them up. Rather, they may come from just a completely random person making junk up or someone who might know something, but I don't have a lot of grounded faith in.

There have also been times where I did not put up a story, thinking it might be false or just not feeling confident enough in the how/where I got it…only for it to become real in the end.

And you're not being rude, so no worries. Totally a valid question.

Beyond any of the insiders (or "insiders" in Liam's case) that you're talking about here, I think it's important to consider why this rumor blew up in the first place: Eurogamer running the story. And they/Tom Phillips have not commented since then at all. Even Kotaku's article seems like it was partially put up because of Eurogamer's faith in the story. So even if "Emily and Jason think it's possible it's not even real", that still doesn't mean it isn't real. They aren't even saying it isn't real with that statement, just that it's possible... which means it is still also very possible the original story was accurate. Basically, I'd like to see Eurogamer comment with a similar line of thinking to begin to even entertain the idea that it was all bunk since I think they are the most official originators of the story.


I completely agree with this here. I'm hopeful it's the latter. Alternatively, I am perfectly alright if SF GP does not happen at all -- but I do want Retro to have been working on something these last five years that will release and be a tangible project.

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Yeah, if this game doesn't come out, it would be nice to get something from them this year, before Metroid Prime 4 in November, 2020 or November, 2021 (or whenever it's done.)

 

[Mr_F_Snowman]

Then why make a thread on an idea you're pretty sure did not happened?

But, yeah, era postings probably aren't worthy of an article especially to ridicule individuals

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Pretty ironic considering era postings are regularly used as the basis for tons of articles at various outlets.........including this thread which Nintendolife made an article about. Don't think anyone is out to ridicule anyone either - just interested to get opinions after the more recent developments

 

[Dark Cloud]

I'm not going to get past the fact that nintendo spent a year and a half+ and probably millions on prime 4, to completely scrap it and have the big announcement video of that, to give it to retro to start over completely on after they had one or maybe even two scrapped games on their own.

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I can't believe. This goes against everything that makes business sense. Retro has to be fine and have a game ready (please ☹️)

 

[Skittzo]

Then why make a thread on an idea you're pretty sure did not happened?

But, yeah, era postings probably aren't worthy of an article especially to ridicule individuals

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I mean this exact hypothetical scenario I laid out in the OP is probably not what happened. I still think it's very likely that the overall theory is correct, that Starfox GP never existed and rumors about it originated from a mixup with Starlink in some way. I just mean that it probably didn't happen exactly the way I'm imagining.

 

[Deleted member 41931]

Right, this is a concern in of itself with multiple possible answers.

Retro could have simply been...busy. If we take the optimistic perspective that they have a project in late/finished stages of development, when Metroid Prime 4 was first greenlit it was unlikely that Retro had the staff to allocate to the project. It makes sense in this case to try a different developer.

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I'm hoping this is the case. SF:GP was our only tangible evidence of any of their projects getting anywhere and now that's gone. I won't write off their other projects yet, but if we still don't hear anything about them by years end, its unfortunately safe to say its been scrapped. Time will tell.

And lastly, maybe Nintendo didn't even think of Retro due to the loss of Prime Trilogy-era staff. Maybe they were never offered it, as the old leads were long gone. And/or maybe Retro had also expressed no interest at the time.

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That's possible, but it doesn't seem very Nintendo like to outsource one of their IPs to(from what we've heard) an unproven, external studio. Even with many of the original staff being gone, they stil retain a decent amount and can still put out excellent titles. Seems like it would be a safer bet, but maybe the other just did that good of a pitch.
[/QUOTE]

At E3 2015 when Tanabe was answering questions about why he was making a spinoff to a dormant franchise (Federation Force) before creating a proper revival, he said he would need a different team to make Prime 4 because Retro was busy with another project.

At E3 2017, when Nintendo announced Prime 4 they said it was being developed by a new team because Retro was busy with another project.

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Thank you. I was stuggling to find any offical comment on the subject, so that explains that.

 

[Skittzo]

Right. The rumors showed up online prior to Eurogamer running the story, and he says as much in the article. But the fact that he has sources reliable enough to run the story in the first place, that corroborate that information, is what takes it out of the realm of baseless internet rumor and into the realm of a potential real leak. The confidence he has in the source is inherent by him running the story.

And by the way, I am not saying Tom or anyone from Eurogamer needs to comment on this story further at all. I am not into pestering journalists and insiders. What I am saying though is that without their comment, we can't jump to the conclusion that this whole thing was bunk. Emily's and Jason's confidence in this (and their own sources) may or may not have been bolstered by the fact that Tom ran the story. So their confidence wavering isn't definitive of anything without knowing if Tom's confidence has wavered.

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Yeah I don't mean to say this is definitely fake, and I'm not jumping to the conclusion that it's bunk. I'm simply saying that I feel this is a plausible explanation of how this rumor originated, and that if this is true then the game has never existed.

Like I said earlier, I was like 60% sure it was fake after the Direct, so I definitely am keeping an open mind and am certainly open to being wrong. Even though that's grown to like 85% now that Jason is no longer confident in it being real.

So yeah I certainly accept the possibility that it's real, I just think- given what we now know- that it's more likely to be fake than it is to be real.

 

[Mr_F_Snowman]

Maybe everyone has it wrong and Retro are actually the ones doing Mario Kart Tour? Kind of fits the timeline - the recent delay of Tour might be fallout caused by Retro shifting on to Metroid Prime 4 while Tour is shifted to the Mario Kart team in house for finishing + updates. Don't forget Retro had a fairly good part in Mario Kart 7's development.............

Also in terms of Retro stuff that isn't speculation or insider stuff - Alexander Brandon - composer / sound guy worked with them semi-recently and said -

"I'm currently working with Retro Studios here in Austin. As much as I'd like to say more (except the work is incredibly exciting and the team is awesome), I can't. :)"

That was May 2017 - doesn't make it sound like a studio in chaos (although I guess it wouldn't) but this is pretty much the only reference we have that is not speculation / insider talk about things at Retro in this period

 

[Deguello]

It's a bonfire of the insiders!

As to why Nintendo would announce a shift from development of Metroid Prime 4 from... whatever they were doing to Retro, it's pretty obvious. "Metroid Prime 4 by Retro" pretty much markets itself. The vocal Metroid fanbase on the internet is... I guess the nice way to put it is overly nostalgic. (Lizard-brained would be the mean way). The way they have to roll out anything Metroid related is similar to the way one would have to feed a toddler or a young child in that you have to show that it's good and tasty first before you reveal that it's actually the hated broccoli, but with some cheese on it. Take for instance, the way they debuted Metroid: Samus Returns. They had to show a whole lot of footage for it first, then reveal the title, then reveal that it was MercurySteam working on it all along. Because if it had slip (outside of rumor chatter) that MercurySteam was working on it, their damaged reputation from Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2 would have taken primacy over any discussion over their potential with Nintendo overseeing it. And since this is the slice of the vocal Nintendo fanbase that would demand games be cancelled because it offends their design sensibilities and collective headcanons, it is imperative that this be prevented at all costs.

However, with Retro, they don't really have to do that. It carries with it memories of Late 2002 and GameCube, and high school and when Betty St. Simon from 3rd period had a crush on you and when the only divisiveness within the Metroid community was those morons who kept insisting on a 2D entry (who cares about them anyway, right?) Even if Retro's a mess now, they already had to whip them into shape once in 1999, it shouldn't be difficult to do it again, even for the same reason.

This seems like a lot of effort for a series that tops out in sales around 3 million and has a fanbase whose vocal members ready to revolt at the slightest provocation, right? I guess the only explanation is that the people who created, oversaw, and/or produced the series must view it as a labor of love. Even the ones the fanbase petitioned to have cancelled or implied the director had brain cancer or was illiterate or other such hurtful things. Hopefully Metroid Prime 4 can burst through the three million barrier and appeal to large amounts of newer players, not just for securing the future of the franchise, but also for the freedom that success can bring when the permanently angry part of a fanbase becomes a smaller percentage of the customer pool.

Where was I going with this? Star Fox Grand Prix sounded like a wild card of a rumor and I wouldn't be surprised if some wires got crossed and some European games news website confused something European game-realted with something American, as it would be easier for them to scoop Euro game news in the Euro rumor grapevine than the American one.

 

[Unbura]

Who is this?

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me

 

[Dark Cloud]

me

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Is there anything new you can add? Any new info?

 

[blitzblake]

Jesus OP...

 

[Zippo]

It's fake, and I know for a fact that it is.
One of the most reliable sources around gave me confirmation of that.

 

[SixelAlexiS]

Ok, nice, who care about StarFox Racing, it was a bad rumor anyway... but the 5 years since that masterpiece of DK TF are real, what the hell has Retro done all this time?
Really, they survived for 5 years with nothing in works... who paid for that? It's really absurd.

 

[julian]

I don't know if this has been asked (or how it'd even get answered), but given how Retro has helped out in various games recently, isn't it possible they assisted in the asset creation for the Star Fox materials in Starlink?

It explains how Retro would be involved in the rumor and it isn't out of character for them as a studio.

 

[Deleted member 37917]

I have no idea if the game exists or not, but I was told pretty bluntly and honestly from a person at Retro who would know and wouldn't lie to me -- Retro never worked on a Star Fox Grand Prix. Take my words with a grain of salt if you want, but I'm certain that they weren't doing it.

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I'm surprised that this post was kind of overlooked. I have faith in you, ThatsMyTrunks! (also Kuso is great)

 

[Dark Cloud]

It's fake, and I know for a fact that it is.
One of the most reliable sources around gave me confirmation of that.

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It's all coming out.

 

[Comic Obsessed]

Okay, but has Retro been doing SOMETHING?

 

[NeonZ]

Look over what Eurogamer said again:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...retro-studios-making-star-fox-racing-spin-off


(Emphasis added)


Basically Tom is saying the rumors already out there are similar to things he's heard. He doesn't mention how confident he is in these sources, or in the rumor itself, just that he has heard similar things from sources. And he doesn't offer up any new details about the game.

I do agree that it would be nice to get a comment from him but I didn't make this thread to bother insiders or reporters and ask for an update on it. If he wants to look into again that's his call.

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Hm... It had been a long time since I read that. It's pretty interesting that although he agrees on the vague details he hesitates on the name. This makes me think some kind of mixup with Starlink is even more likely.

 

[Skittzo]

I don't know if this has been asked (or how it'd even get answered), but given how Retro has helped out in various games recently, isn't it possible they assisted in the asset creation for the Star Fox materials in Starlink?

It explains how Retro would be involved in the rumor and it isn't out of character for them as a studio.

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This is a common misconception- Retro has assisted in all of one game recently: Mario Kart 7. If they had assisted with Starlink in any capacity they would be named in the credits.

Okay, but has Retro been doing SOMETHING?

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Hopefully! That's the million dollar question.

 

[Deleted member 4093]

Okay, but has Retro been doing SOMETHING?

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Nope

 

[Dark Cloud]

Okay, but has Retro been doing SOMETHING?

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We know they have. Does someone need to make a topic? We know they've been working on a game last year.

 

[MaitreWakou]

It's fake, and I know for a fact that it is.
One of the most reliable sources around gave me confirmation of that.

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I don't know who your source is, but just want to add that NateDrake also said publicly on a thread here that it was just a sophiscated hoax.

 

[Skittzo]

I don't know who your source is, but just want to add that NateDrake also said publicly on a thread here that it was just a sophiscated hoax.

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Yeah several people have now said publicly or privately that they believe it was a hoax.

So it probably wasn't confused with Starlink (assuming it was an intentional hoax) but it still probably never existed.

 

[Deleted member 37917]

ohoho seems like I missed some of the latest info. I can't wait to see what Retro has been working on. We really dodged a bullet with that crap.

 

[Link the Hero]

There has to be a game Retro was working on. How is it possible not having done anything between TF and MP4?