Theresa May: “If this deal is not passed then Brexit could be lost"

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,286
This Brexit shit is the dumbest political fuckery I have ever seen, and that's saying something considering we elected Donald Trump over here
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,535
The Hundred Acre Wood
Because they don't want to see an entire country of 60+ million people thrown to the shit based on 52% of the voting populace being duped into chopping their own arms off?
Sure, but the EU's primary interest has to be the strength and stability of the EU. This Brexit nonsense just creates resentment and uncertainty. And there is absolutely no indication that even with an extension the UK will get their shit together.
 

Dopus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
489
Sure, but the EU's primary interest has to be the strength and stability of the EU. This Brexit nonsense just creates resentment and uncertainty. And there is absolutely no indication that even with an extension the UK will get their shit together.
Resentment and uncertainty, there's no doubt. But it's not in the EU's interest for a no-deal Brexit.
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,535
The Hundred Acre Wood
Resentment and uncertainty, there's no doubt. But it's not in the EU's interest for a no-deal Brexit.
It's not in the UK's interest either... but here we are. At some point a no-deal Brexit is going to be more tenable than years of in/out uncertainty.

If I were the EU, I'd approve an extension ONLY on the condition that there is a second referendum, on No-Deal Brexit or Remain, to be carried out before the end of the year. The result will be binding and effective Jan 1 2020.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,426
Resentment and uncertainty, there's no doubt. But it's not in the EU's interest for a no-deal Brexit.
No matter what, it's in the EU's interest that the UK fares worse under a new deal than they do under the EU. If the UK comes out "better" after Brexit, then why would any country stay in the EU? Just exit the EU and gain benefits. That's the thing that the UK needs to realise, that any deal needs to be "worse" and that advantages are going to come from being able to make long-term decisions, and their ability to negotiate other trade agreements unilaterally. Although I'm not sure how negotiating with China or the USA under a smaller economy (size difference going from EU to UK) gives them any benefit.
 

Ada

Member
Nov 28, 2017
1,599
Delay indefinitely please. That way brexiters have a cloud to shout at and the status quo is maintained.
 

Darren Lamb

Member
Dec 1, 2017
205
This Brexit shit is the dumbest political fuckery I have ever seen, and that's saying something considering we elected Donald Trump over here
Yeah I feel the same way. The Brexit debate is 99% procedural/parliamentary drama and little Englander takes, and 1% discussion on the effects of what it would do. No one voted to be poorer, and some non-negligible percentage of that 52% are just racists, but let's ruin a generation or two based on an advisory referendum on something unknowable that should have never been put to a referendum.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,677
Texas
Because they don't want to see an entire country of 60+ million people thrown to the shit based on 52% of the voting populace being duped into chopping their own arms off?
Maybe not. But the EU has already made comments regarding an extension. They want it to be meaningful. An extension just for the sake of an extension may not be enough for the bloc to vote to approve it.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,677
Texas
Why do you hope this exactly?
I’d imagine it’s the fact that the UK has managed to handle this in the worst way possible for 2 years now. Have done nothing to prepare while holding 27 countries, markets, the economy, and people in a 100% irresponsible limbo. Based largely on a racist sentiment that started this in the first place.

At some point there is a desire to move on and get it done. Kicking the can down the road further seems fruitless given the actions of the UK government and the current stance of the EU regarding not only the current May deal but also an extension even.
 

Calderc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,700
This is an incredible shitshow, but it was created and is being maintained by the UK. Enough with this shit. There's a portuguese expression "Ou fodes ou sais de cima" that can be applied here.
The 'UK' isn't a singular entity. Not all of us wanted this, and to have to read comments like yours is a slap in the face to those of us who are as exasperated (fuck, far *more* exasperated seeing as we actually fucking live here and have to suffer the consequences) as anyone else.

Your 'hope' that we just get kicked out is blaming 60 million fucking people for the actions of a few extremely wealthy individuals pushing this country in a seriously insidious, shitty direction.

Your 'hope' that we kicked out means you hope for lost jobs, excrutiating poverty for a large percentage of this country, food shortages, medicine shortages, and ultimately death. Thanks.
 

Burli

Member
Nov 7, 2017
157
What is the UK going to do? Vote 100 times for a new deal? Enough of this.
I don't really care as long as Britain remains in the EU for as long as possible and those of us that appreciate the importance of the EU don't have to suffer consequences brought on by a combination of greedy Tories and the ill-educated masses that blindly follow them.

Please remember the vote was effectively 50/50 and since the leave campaign has been found guilty of campaign fraud and many other things. Half of the country didn't vote for this and our youngest generations who will be hit hardest and didn't get a vote do not deserve to suffer a no-deal Brexit because some person in Portugal is fed up with Brexit.
 

Calderc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,700
Why? It’s true. The blame for this is entirely on the UK. It’s self-inflicted. Just get rid of them, they’re clearly not operating in good faith. Scotland would be wise to split ASAP.
I'm Scottish, and i agree, we should have left after the first referendum. But Scotland and Ireland aren't to blame for this, despite being part of the UK. And seeing as Independence isn't happening anytime soon, all that will happen is everyone here getting the shit. The whole of the UK doesn't deserve to suffer for the actions of the Far Right, stop telling us that we do.
 

Burli

Member
Nov 7, 2017
157
Why? It’s true. The blame for this is entirely on the UK. It’s self-inflicted. Just get rid of them, they’re clearly not operating in good faith. Scotland would be wise to split ASAP.
The blame for this is with the Tories. The referendum happened because the Tories wanted to stay in power. Leave won because those subjected to years of austerity were manipulated by the Tory elite who used the EU as a scapegoat for their woes. Brexit is still happening because we have a Tory government that would rather stay in power than protect their population. We do not all deserve to suffer because of the greedy and the ignorant; my children, who will live the ramifications of this well into their adult lives, especially so. Don't be so quick to throw us all to the wolves because of your frustrations.
 

LastCaress

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
836
The 'UK' isn't a singular entity. Not all of us wanted this, and to have to read comments like yours is a slap in the face to those of us who are as exasperated (fuck, far *more* exasperated seeing as we actually fucking live here and have to suffer the consequences) as anyone else.

Your 'hope' that we just get kicked out is blaming 60 million fucking people for the actions of a few extremely wealthy individuals pushing this country in a seriously insidious, shitty direction.

Your 'hope' that we kicked out means you hope for lost jobs, excrutiating poverty for a large percentage of this country, food shortages, medicine shortages, and ultimately death. Thanks.
I was raised in a french international school in Lisbon. A great deal of my friends were "foreigners". Even with all the bureaucracy and bullshit of the EU I was raised on the european ideal of unity. The french were pretty upset about those wars, and the contrast between those times and the unprecedented time of peace that the EU helped build made for a pretty easy defense of the european project. Roaming around freely around europe, studying abroad easily with our other european brothers? I love all that. I wished for the remain vote to win. I wished for brexit to be cancelled at every single step. But that didn't happen and at some point you have to move on. Hope for lost jobs, excruciating poverty for a large percentage of this country, food shortages, medicine shortages, and ultimately death? That's a 100% self-inflicted problem

To every single person that wants to be part of the european dream, I welcome you with open arms. But the UK can go fuck itself at this point for all I care.
 

Calderc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,700
I was raised in a french international school in Lisbon. A great deal of my friends were "foreigners". Even with all the bureaucracy and bullshit of the EU I was raised on the european ideal of unity. The french were pretty upset about those wars, and the contrast between those times and the unprecedented time of peace that the EU helped build made for a pretty easy defense of the european project. Roaming around freely around europe, studying abroad easily with our other european brothers? I love all that. I wished for the remain vote to win. I wished for brexit to be cancelled at every single step. But that didn't happen and at some point you have to move on. Hope for lost jobs, excruciating poverty for a large percentage of this country, food shortages, medicine shortages, and ultimately death? That's a 100% self-inflicted problem

To every single person that wants to be part of the european dream, I welcome you with open arms. But the UK can go fuck itself at this point for all I care.
Tell me then, and the other 48% who voted Remain, and the generations to come who are currently too young to vote, how we inflicted this upon ourselves?
 

Blade Runner

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,221
At some point the EU needs to say “enough.” There are over twenty other member states that are committed to the EU and they should come first.

Elections have consequences. The electorate made its choice. Even now it’s very unclear which way a second referendum would go.
 

Wrighteous86

Member
Oct 27, 2017
685
Chicago
Tell me then, and the other 48% who voted Remain, and the generations to come who are currently too young to vote, how we inflicted this upon ourselves?
How are you trying to stop it? This isn’t me being a dick. I’m genuinely wondering if there are protests or any other kind of civic action by people who want to remain.

From the US but with British in laws, almost everyone I know over there opposes it but I haven’t seen much political action by the people in the news (if any options other than protests are available). I assume I don’t get a lot of news on this. Are there protests and other acts?

(And to prove I’m not being a dick, I’ll acknowledge that the American people don’t do enough to combat Trump except in cases of his grossest excesses.)
 

Burli

Member
Nov 7, 2017
157
But the UK can go fuck itself at this point for all I care.
Well fuck you too then, mate.

So my point is, EU countries are suffering from this right now as well, and will continue to as long as this drags on. And there is no end in sight in the UK. So how long do you think the EU should suffer while the UK dicks around?
I'm struggling to see how EU countries are suffering because of Brexit. The more of a farce this becomes the less likely other members will be likely to leave and the stronger the EU looks as a united front. With every day of Brexit the UK is weakened and the EU strengthened. This is the ultimate advert for both staying in and joining the EU.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,765
Tell me then, and the other 48% who voted Remain, and the generations to come who are currently too young to vote, how we inflicted this upon ourselves?
You need to ask the 52% who voted leave this question, not mainland Europeans who have had enough of this and the amount of attention it's diverting from other issues.
 

Wrighteous86

Member
Oct 27, 2017
685
Chicago
Thank you. I’ll look at this. I elaborated more to emphasize I wasn’t trying to be combative. We don’t see much of this in the States.

There has been countless protests. Why else can we do? Ask the same of Americans and Trump.
I agree on your point with Americans and Trump. Added that to my post before I saw this.
 

Calderc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,700
You need to ask the 52% who voted leave this question, not mainland Europeans who have had enough of this and the amount of attention it's diverting from other issues.
Right, so just fuck the rest of us because half the country are stupid and/or racist because people on the mainland 'have had enough'.
 

Burli

Member
Nov 7, 2017
157
I think what myself and I believe, Calderc, are struggling with is the notion that we should all suffer in Britain because of the decisions of our worst people. This mentality applied across all countries would put the world in turmoil.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,280
Right, so just fuck the rest of us because half the country are stupid and/or racist because people on the mainland 'have had enough'.
In fairness... yes?

At the end of the day, the UK voted to leave (I'm a remainer for what it's worth), so we shouldn't be allowed to endlessly harm the rest of the EU with our bullshit.

It fucking sucks, but it has to end at some point. They'd be well within their rights to say "we need to move on, no deal".
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,535
The Hundred Acre Wood
I'm struggling to see how EU countries are suffering because of Brexit. The more of a farce this becomes the less likely other members will be likely to leave and the stronger the EU looks as a united front. With every day of Brexit the UK is weakened and the EU strengthened. This is the ultimate advert for both staying in and joining the EU.
You can't possibly imagine businesses around the EU are enjoying this constant uncertainty and risk. The ones sending shipments of goods to the UK as we speak not knowing if they'll even be able to be received. Wondering if local British workers and customers are going to have to be evicted suddenly. That customers will be drying up. Whether that trip to London is going to even be possible this summer. Are airlines going to have to reorganize their flights? Etc etc etc. There's tons of this up and down the board. The whole point was you were part of a unified group. The idea that the only thing that matters is what happens in the UK alone is the exact kind of arrogance that got you all into this mess in the first place.
 

DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,228
I have to say I'm honestly surprised that MV2 didn't get support just because of the fear of a no deal and the fear of daring to ask the population again.
 

Commedieu

Member
Nov 11, 2017
6,641
Shambles.
At some point the EU needs to say “enough.” There are over twenty other member states that are committed to the EU and they should come first.

Elections have consequences. The electorate made its choice. Even now it’s very unclear which way a second referendum would go.
I thought they did say something to the effect of;

In politics its always hard, you make mistakes, but its what you do with your second chance...

This was the UK's second chance.

Also, There should be NO brexit considering the population was lied to, and voted on those lies. If the will of the people was lied to about a voting item, that isn't quite the same as respecting their ignorant vote. Or at least, run it again without assholes saying everyone is going to get 250million a day after they leave.
 

Calderc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,700
In fairness... yes?

At the end of the day, the UK voted to leave (I'm a remainer for what it's worth), so we shouldn't be allowed to endlessly harm the rest of the EU with our bullshit.

It fucking sucks, but it has to end at some point. They'd be well within their rights to say "we need to move on, no deal".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this can or should go on indefinitely (2 years is 2 years too long) but this attitude of 'Fuck you, slightly over half of your country (if you take the UK as a whole) voted for this so here, suffer with them' is fucking abhorrent to me.
 

Burli

Member
Nov 7, 2017
157
In fairness... yes?

At the end of the day, the UK voted to leave (I'm a remainer for what it's worth), so we shouldn't be allowed to endlessly harm the rest of the EU with our bullshit.

It fucking sucks, but it has to end at some point. They'd be well within their rights to say "we need to move on, no deal".
The 'UK' voted to leave following no votes for 16-17 year olds, an illegal leave campaign and years of anti-EU propaganda pushed on austerity crippled communities. The referendum should never have happened and Brexit should have ceased once it was shown the democratic process had been poisoned.

I agree Brexit needs to end, but if the government can't agree on how it wants to leave because all options look wank then we shouldn't leave.