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Theresa May: “If this deal is not passed then Brexit could be lost"
- Thread starter Deleted member 15428
- Start date
Yeah I'm sure a vote for Brexit founded mostly on racism and xenophobia is gonna lead to a 'utopian multicultural society'. The path is so clear.
Speaking as a European here. Had you asked me a few months ago, I would have felt very warm to the prospect of the UK staying. The EU project as a whole, I feel, is one that should both unite and better the old continent as a whole.
However, I am now far, far less inclined to keep my arms widely open. Few reasons:
1. Despite the heaps of misinformation going around in 2016, that referendum was still a legit, democratic vote. It is the responsibility of the electorate to inform itself (no matter how vaguely) about the consequences of a vote it is participating in. That weight is NOT on the democratic process itself and it should not suffer because of it.
2. If Britain remains in the EU specifically because of this current crisis, that makes the UK a volatile and unpredictable member state that is both trapped in a union it doesn't wholeheartedly want AND in a massive identity crisis with itself. I do NOT want more Farages and populists in the EU parliament. I don't want more MEPs that weaken our joint institutions while giving no constructive input in how to better them.
3. If I weigh the pros and cons, Brexit could actually very much serve the EU in the long-term. I don't want to go into details as it could potentially trigger a few UK folks here, but let's just say that I sincerely doubt Ian Blackford's statements were made without proper teeth and intent behind them.
However, I am now far, far less inclined to keep my arms widely open. Few reasons:
1. Despite the heaps of misinformation going around in 2016, that referendum was still a legit, democratic vote. It is the responsibility of the electorate to inform itself (no matter how vaguely) about the consequences of a vote it is participating in. That weight is NOT on the democratic process itself and it should not suffer because of it.
2. If Britain remains in the EU specifically because of this current crisis, that makes the UK a volatile and unpredictable member state that is both trapped in a union it doesn't wholeheartedly want AND in a massive identity crisis with itself. I do NOT want more Farages and populists in the EU parliament. I don't want more MEPs that weaken our joint institutions while giving no constructive input in how to better them.
3. If I weigh the pros and cons, Brexit could actually very much serve the EU in the long-term. I don't want to go into details as it could potentially trigger a few UK folks here, but let's just say that I sincerely doubt Ian Blackford's statements were made without proper teeth and intent behind them.
Is there a British version of hot potato? Cause that's how this seems to me, an outsider
I don't care who's rule, the NHS is a mess and I wish I could opt out and go private.
the whole country feels out of balance with wages, business costs, tax on tax.
No one is stopping you from going privately...like that's the whole reason it's been undermined.
I'm going to stop myself before I get unpleasant and personal
The NHS isn't just for you, mate, and if it's a mess it's because it's being purposefully undermined by Tory scum.
There's nothing to stop you going private or moving to the US if you really are against people having access to healthcare and want to pay less tax.
I thought a Three Line Whip = you must vote in line with your Party, you can't abstain - and a quick Google seems to confirm that.
That's some basic shit to fuck up on.
God I love this song but sometimes I forget how disturbing their lyrics can be.
Also, slightly off-topic (and you can PM me if so), but I've been closely following the happenings through many sources and many news channels available here (BBC, Sky, AJ, CNN, DW, etc). Out of all of the news channels available, Fox News is literally the only one not reporting one word of this and is instead dealing with some (I'm assuming fringe) scandals with Lori Laughlin or whatever. I have heard horror stories about Fox News, but is this a normal thing or? One would think these are important events for the western world.
If you could tell me how I stop paying the hundreds each month to then go private, then that would be a weight off my shoulder
So why don't you? Sign up now mate
https://www.bupa.co.uk/health/health-insurance/quote-your-details
Let me know how you get on.
Nah sorry, at least the least fortunate in this country get a basic amount of healthcare and we all need to contribute to that.
Now the people that voted against are saying they shouldn't be fired or resign even, because they've supported what the PM wanted. And technically supported what the PM wanted now, until the amendment.
?
I'm not even sure I understand this.
You do know that a lot of private healthcare in the UK is provided through NHS facilities and staff... and vice versa?
You know that like... even if you go private you will probably still use the NHS for a number of services? Like most GPs are with the NHS but they also provide referrals for private care?
Like I'm not even sure what you're getting at here.
Do you mean you want to go private but you don't want to pay for it, or do you mean you don't want any of your taxes to go the NHS if you do go private?
Believe me mate I'm trying, I'm not against people having access to healthcare - I just believe the population is too great for 1 health care service, I shouldn't need to be ringing my GP on the dot at 8am to get an appointment otherwise I will have to try again the next day.
I shouldn't have to be told by the nurse they can't run a specific test because it costs too much money so I need to take a test which gives false positives and then be prescribed 3 different antibiotics for 6 months. Then pay £8.80 per packet of tablets under NHS.
Yet there promoting in the GP's to not give out antibiotics unless needed.
The whole service is overloaded and it's leading to very poor care
Yes, I put all that under "delay". Of course I forgot to write out the four choices, so you're right.
1) no deal
2) May deal
3) extend negotiation period for whatever reason
4) no Brexit (not likely, but given the mess this all is, you never know)
If you don't want taxes go move to the USA or something. Then you can save money on taxes and have even crappier public services in return because nobody's paying for them.
I mean I don't want to pay my tax/ni which puts me in to the NHS service.
I would prefer to select and pay my own service/insurance like virgin etc.
Isn't that rather selfish and against the idea of a decent society?
I fucking love the NHS, yeah we may have to wait a bit but I've been attacked during the night, an ex trapped her hand in the taxi door (she was unemployed) and we rocked up and got sorted in a few hours. This kind of screw others I got mine life is horrible.
What?
You're not paying tax so just you can use the NHS, you're paying tax so everyone else can use it too. You can not believe in social medicine if you like but quite frankly you'd be wrong.
Personal experiences that is all.
It's great for a trapped hand though
Then I have news for you.
Private healthcare recipients still commonly use NHS GPs as a first point of contact.
Private GPs are a thing but they are far less common than other forms of private healthcare. If you were looking to get private healthcare and you had insurance or you were willing to pay then the first person that would be putting that in place for you would be your NHS GP.
If you are having a bad experience with your GP surgery, well that sucks and I'm sorry to hear that, but you would very likely still be using them if you were private.
If you didn't want your money to go to the NHS you'd be opting out of something that there isn't really a common or decent alternative for, that seems to be something that is going around at the moment.
I can be wrong to others and that's perfectly fine, but I should be given a choice
If you think paying £8.80 for a packet of tablets under the NHS is bad, how fucking expensive do they think they'll be if you go private?
Either go private yourself and at least free up some miniscule amount of capacity within the NHS for others, or just admit that you don't want to contribute to a service that a lot of people in unfortunate circumstances rely on to save their fucking lives.
Sorry, no you shouldn't in this, at least the opting of paying tax you mention above.
I used to be able to get them private, but then the GP was restricted from putting private on the prescriptions.
And go private myself and be paying even more out per month, sounds like a great idea
So shut the fuck up then if you're still going to use the NHS but want to whine about having to contribute to it. Jesus.
If I'm paying for something why would I not use it?
Listen if ever the time comes for you and you need to see a specialist and the appointment is 3 months away then gets pushed back another 2 months and then moved back again then you may also be slightly annoyed.
It's great for broken bones/tonsillitis/chest infections... but when things get more complex the cracks get shown and you see how over loaded the system is.
The hospitals are a mess patient data is all over the place, the doctors are spread over many patients at a time on Rota basis, they don't read past the first page so you have to tell the same story to each person who walks in the room.
You have absolutely no idea what you're on about, all of the things you are complaining about are due to the underfunding and lack of support the NHS is getting at almost all levels.
And if you are given a choice, so is everyone else. Everyone else who is fortunate to enough to be able to afford it. And what of those that can't? Tough luck, huh?
No. You guys elect people to make decisions like this. Decisions the public can't account for because they are too complex.
Believe me, I understand how difficult this is, because I've been there myself. Sorry you've had a bad experience with the NHS but your solution to stop giving them money and to go private, if repeated by enough people, would leave the NHS in even worse condition to help those who can't afford to go private.
The solution isn't for you, or the next guy, to be able to opt out of the NHS and give them less money. It's for the NHS to be given more money. Surely you must see that?
Must be, because XDevil666 sure as fuck doesn't want to help them out. Fuck poor people in fact, all of them.
You are kinda making the point against yourself there though.
Do you live in London? Because if you don't then there is basically no private Accident and Emergency care available to you if were to find yourself needing that kind of help. So opting out of the NHS altogether seems like a false economy.
The point that I'm making is that private care is an additional thing that coexists with the NHS, it doesn't replace it. I've said before about how your NHS GP would still be your first point of referral for consultant care.
Private care is most commonly available for stuff that can be expediently provided and charged for in a predictable manner. More complicated, less profitable forms of care don't really fit into that kind of model.
And yet, for all your whining, the medical outcomes of the NHS at large are among the best in the world.
I pay a couple of grand a year for private health insurance. Have never used it... and I'm still more than happy to pay my fair share for the NHS (which I've used probably four or five times in 40 years).
This is all HUGELY off topic though.
This is all HUGELY off topic though.
Having your tooth punched through your face, a week of operations and an infection was nice too.
And still helping with the anxiety I have 10 years on.
You're right, apologies for going off topic.
Have a good night all
I seem to have stumbled into a thread about public health care. A topic about which I know little, being American. We have the best health care system in the world!*
*for millionaires
**actually not even then
*for millionaires
**actually not even then