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This 35 second clip changed my perception of Iron Mike Tyson

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808s & Villainy

808s & Villainy

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Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Stooge said:
I spend about 8 hours a week in a boxing gym with a fair-share of Mike Tyson truthers who think he didn't even commit crimes. I am well aware of most of the arguments for/against him being a good person today or not.
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Are you claiming me to be a truther or some conspiracy theorist? And what you said has nothing to do with anything, just you trying to flex irrelevant details about you boxing.

My point wasn't that he didn't do all the shit he was accused of. I think anyone with a brain and eyes knows he was a piece of shit. I'm laughing at your claim that him being different now is the result of coaching from a PR firm
 
Stooge

Stooge

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Oct 29, 2017
11,228
808s & Villainy said:
Are you claiming me to be a truther or some conspiracy theorist? And what you said has nothing to do with anything, just you trying to flex irrelevant details about you boxing.

My point wasn't that he didn't do all the shit he was accused of. I think anyone with a brain and eyes knows he was a piece of shit. I'm laughing at your claim that him being different now is the result of coaching from a PR firm
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I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying I am well versed in most of the theories about Mike Tyson (he didn't do anything, he is garbage, he's a good man now, he was a good boxer so who cares, his environment created him, it was all Don King's Fault).

You asked if I had watched the clip (which, I had) and I was providing context that I don't have an half-baked opinion of who Mike Tyson is as it's a thing that comes up not in-often at a place I frequent mostly because there is a giant mural of him there that is somewhat contentious and causes spirited debate around his person fairly often to counter your point that I "had not watched the clip" which seemed to imply I knew nothing of the situation, TL;DRd the OP and just threw out an ill-thought out knee jerk response.

I tend to think he is a complicated figure (like most humans are) but did really garbage things that one shouldn't ever really be absolved of.
 

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thecouncil

thecouncil

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C for Chewbacca said:
Man you guys that are railing on the OP can fuck right off. It is okay to see some worth in any human being. People change, opinions change, there is a path to moral redemption.

Assholes.

It must be miserable to keep this rolodex of hate for your entire of life. People make mistakes, and can suck for a good portion of their lives and still turn out to be a better version of themselves with time and effort.
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rape is a "mistake"?
oops.
 
RedMercury

RedMercury

Blue Venus
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Dec 24, 2017
17,657
Anoregon said:
No, this is an inaccurate extrapolation of what I posted. I'm just specifically addressing your earlier statement I quoted, that yes, there is an actual biological reason that people "enjoy" negative emotions like anger and hatred.
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That does not describe motivation though. You would have to prove the motivation someone has is to get the dopamine rush from hatred.
 
RedMercury

RedMercury

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Dec 24, 2017
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Imagine being someone he raped and abused and hearing people say "well the guy did his time, why can't people get over it"
 
Anoregon

Anoregon

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Oct 25, 2017
14,047
RedMercury said:
That does not describe motivation though. You would have to prove the motivation someone has is to get the dopamine rush from hatred.
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Dude, what? This is an inherently ridiculous criteria. People don't preface everything they do/think with a detailed consideration of the complex brain activities that make them feel compelled to do a thing. Brain chemistry effects behavior without people consciously considering their brain chemistry.
 
RedMercury

RedMercury

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Dec 24, 2017
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Anoregon said:
Dude, what? This is an inherently ridiculous criteria. People don't preface everything they do/think with a detailed consideration of the complex brain activities that make them feel compelled to do a thing.
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They preface it with their own personal convictions, not how their brain chemistry is going to respond.
 

Deleted member 48897

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I mean I guess in the most abstract, divorced-from-society, black-and-white terms then, yes, it does feel good, like, in the brain, to condemn a convicted rapist? But on literally any other hand out there, what the fuck even is going on in this thread any more that this is what we're arguing about
 
Goldenroad

Goldenroad

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There are really people defending a convicted rapist in this thread. Like I agree he has done his time and should fuck off into obscurity, but he is not a "good guy". Good guys don't rape people. Period.
 
SteveWinwood

SteveWinwood

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Oct 25, 2017
18,682
USA USA USA
808s & Villainy said:
He really isn't anymore. On multiple occasions he's acknowledged he pretty much only cares about his kids now and that the stuff he did before when he was a boxer was because he was young, desperate and stupid. Doesn't absolve all the bad things he did, but he very much recognizes that as a part of his life that no longer is who he is
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did you get all this from a 35 second clip?
 
HeySeuss

HeySeuss

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Oct 25, 2017
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Anoregon said:
No, this is an inaccurate extrapolation of what I posted. I'm just specifically addressing your earlier statement I quoted, that yes, there is an actual biological reason that people "enjoy" negative emotions like anger and hatred.
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Happiness releases dopamine as well. Actually even more chemicals in the brain that are stimulating, moreso than anger. People should try it.
 

Deleted member 48897

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Mizeris Lutz Ether Lanai said:
Do you honestly believe there is no rehabilitation or redemption for someone in his position? Just cancelled forever?
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Yeah look at his shameful hovel. Dude's living a sad, pathetic, decrepit life.
Cancel culture has gone too far now that it's come for rapists. Wait, I thought #metoo was the one coming for the rapists. Is it cancel culture or #metoo that's gone too far this time.
 
carlosrox

carlosrox

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Oct 25, 2017
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C for Chewbacca said:
Man you guys that are railing on the OP can fuck right off. It is okay to see some worth in any human being. People change, opinions change, there is a path to moral redemption.

Assholes.

It must be miserable to keep this rolodex of hate for your entire of life. People make mistakes, and can suck for a good portion of their lives and still turn out to be a better version of themselves with time and effort.
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Fucking this.
 
Mizeris Lutz Ether Lanai

Mizeris Lutz Ether Lanai

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Dec 2, 2017
3,435
muteKi said:
Yeah look at his shameful hovel. Dude's living a sad, pathetic, decrepit life.
Cancel culture has gone too far now that it's come for rapists. Wait, I thought #metoo was the one coming for the rapists. Is it cancel culture or #metoo that's gone too far this time.
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None of this answers the question or is really related to it. You're off on your own tangent here.
 
Hippopuncher12

Hippopuncher12

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Oct 25, 2017
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RTX ON said:
I'm not condoning his past, but the guy is clearly rehabilitated. Which I did not believe to be the case.
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This. It's funny because a lot of people on Era will tell you how the Justice system should be about rehabilitation but at the same time absolutely shit on someone that has clearly been rehabilitated due to what they did in the past. Choose one please.
 
Ebullientprism

Ebullientprism

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Strangelove77 said:
You're going to get shit on dude. Era does not forgive or forget.
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Threads like these and threads like the "this is a prison cell in Sweden/etc" are a really great combo.

We strongly believe that prison should be about rehabilitation and not punishment. But we believe in virtue signalling even more so fuck the rehabilitation.
 
SteveWinwood

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Oct 25, 2017
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808s & Villainy said:
Well I'd already seen the clip a while ago and many other more recent interviews and things with him
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my point was it's absurd to base anything on anyone from a 30 second clip of an interview

he might still be a terrible person, might be a really great guy who feels bad about his past and is trying to make amends

I dont know about it so I'm not going to say anything cause I don't wanna be a dumbass

but to change your mind on a 30 second clip sans any additional context and with lots of other surrounding information being ignored is really dumb

in my opinion

but I do honestly thank you for trying to add information to the thread in spite of how it's going! that's not sarcasm
 
Carnby

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'll never forget reading a USA Today story on Tyson in 2005. The headline was "My life is a waste." He had a lot of regret even back then.
 
thecouncil

thecouncil

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C for Chewbacca said:
Bad decisions, choices...

Here is the definition since you are being obtuse and part of what's wrong with this community.

mis·take
[məˈstāk]

NOUN
  1. an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong.
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Oh, I usually just think of mistakes as calling someone by the wrong name, not raping them. But, by definition, both of those things are mistakes. Very good point!
 
Z-Beat

Z-Beat

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Oct 25, 2017
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muteKi said:
But on literally any other hand out there, what the fuck even is going on in this thread any more that this is what we're arguing about
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Well that guy gave Mike a pass because he's apparently not all crazy anymore based on a 30 second clip

Then those guys came in and were like "what are you talking about, dude's a rapist."

Then these other guys came in and were like "he's rehabilitated and regrets his mistakes"

The guys from before came back and were like "we aren't obligated to accept him back so easily nor are we obligated to give him a pat on the back for realizing that rape and abuse are wrong. Also you're downplaying his crimes"

I think this happened because no one likes the possibility that you can never come back from something but no one also likes the possibility that everything is something that you'd be able to come back from so easily.

I'm under the impression that if public opinion is all that motivates you to redeem yourself then you probably aren't a good person to begin with and that a 30 second clip isn't enough to 180 my opinion on someone for something so severe.
 
MilesQ

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Oct 25, 2017
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Acknowledging someone has changed and grown as a person as well as being rehabilitated isn't a terrible thing to do. It doesn't erase what he did, as it's fair to bring up his past crimes, but it should at least be acknowledged that he's changed and been rehabilitated.

That's what we all want, right? For people who commit crimes to be rehabilitated and become somewhat decent citizens.
 
Vas

Vas

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Oct 25, 2017
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SteveWinwood said:
and because of a 30 second clip you now think he's not?
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Why not? That was some fascinating wisdom, and it came from a guy with a background that few share. It gives his words weight that is impactful. However, I am not endorsing his behavior or opinions on anything by saying this, to be clear.
 
V_Arnold

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You know era, for being progressive, sometimes some of the posters REALLY do not believe that people can change. AT ALL.
If you do not believe in rehabilitation/reform, then you are for the punitive prison system for the US. Which BREEDS inequality and is the cause of many of the systemic injustices that the country faces.

If Tyson is just a piece of shit unredeemable subhuman in your eyes, 20+ years after he served his time, then... well, go ahead I guess.


(Also, quick edit: there is a reason why these violent, ultra-competitive sports are so full of agressions and incidents, and they are also one of the very few avenues that young minority kids see for themselves as a path out of poverty.)
 
CrocoDuck

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Oct 28, 2017
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C for Chewbacca said:
Man you guys that are railing on the OP can fuck right off. It is okay to see some worth in any human being. People change, opinions change, there is a path to moral redemption.

Assholes.

It must be miserable to keep this rolodex of hate for your entire of life. People make mistakes, and can suck for a good portion of their lives and still turn out to be a better version of themselves with time and effort.
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Exactly. Mike has had an insane life (I recommend everyone read his memoir Undisputed Truth, it's amazing/raw/honest) both in and out of the ring. He's made a lot of mistakes and still has pitfalls today (drugs). The way he is today and how he was decades ago is night and day. Even he said it himself he was so destructive he never in his life thought he would reach 50.
 
BDS

BDS

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Oct 25, 2017
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V_Arnold said:
You know era, for being progressive, sometimes some of the posters REALLY do not believe that people can change. AT ALL.
If you do not believe in rehabilitation/reform, then you are for the punitive prison system for the US. Which BREEDS inequality and is the cause of many of the systemic injustices that the country faces.

If Tyson is just a piece of shit unredeemable subhuman in your eyes, 20+ years after he served his time, then... well, go ahead I guess.


(Also, quick edit: there is a reason why these violent, ultra-competitive sports are so full of agressions and incidents, and they are also one of the very few avenues that young minority kids see for themselves as a path out of poverty.)
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"True progressivism means forgiving rapists" is some galaxy brain shit my dude
 

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Z-Beat said:
I'm under the impression that if public opinion is all that motivates you to redeem yourself then you probably aren't a good person to begin with and that a 30 second clip isn't enough to 180 my opinion on someone for something so severe.
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I agree with this. That said, I was mainly complaining in the post that you quoted me from that we moved so far away from the actual issue in question that we were discussing brain chemistry rather than, say, the long-term social consequences of rape and rape culture.

And the funny thing is that in the context of a professional boxer's behavior I'm much more willing than most to say that brain chemistry matters, because those dudes get hit in the head a lot and even sub-concussive trauma has been shown to do a lot to fuck up a person's long-term well being. But that's a different question from discussing the brain chemistry of people looking askance at a convicted rapist.

But I dunno. Maybe I am the fucked up one. I used to joke as a teen that Tyson chicken (which, I'll note, is not affiliated with this guy) was made from Holyfield's ear meat
 
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