This fetishized in-game ad from Cyberpunk 2077 raises some questions about how the game may depict LGBT (NSFW) [See Staff Post Before Posting]

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Arkanim94

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Oct 27, 2017
3,907
I thought the issue was the CDPR is questionable and people don't know if there will be more positive representation than this poster. If there is more positive representation then the poster would be seen as the standard objectifying advertisement you see for other groups.
Yeah, if they had apologise for the last year tweet, we wouldn't be here.
 

Riddler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
186
Seems to be intended as an ad for some sexual stimulant so massive boners in the ad make sense, especially with the "all night every night" line. "Mix it up" seems to promote non hetero sex so thats positive representation right? As a sexual being I'm not offended by use of sexual ads to set the mood of a dystopian future where gender fluid people are just a part of society. I mean, have you seen the ads on porn-hub? Have you ever been to a sex shop? Fetishizing ads to sell sex products is pretty normal, gay or straight, cis or non-binary. I think seeing these types of ads in subway stairwells or any other public places in Night City show how ubiquitous gender fluid people are in this future.
I agree with you and after playing Witcher 1~3 CDPR is no stranger of fetish’s, sexualisation of ANYTHING. In the same note have some of the strongest non-traditional characters from heroes, villains, and everything in between.

Showing people are complicated and not one dimensional beings.

I do think they handled things poorly in social media but CDPR is made of 100’s of people, but I do see why people are so critical of them lately.
 

Alucrid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,583
I thought the issue was the CDPR is questionable and people don't know if there will be more positive representation than this poster. If there is more positive representation then the poster would be seen as the standard objectifying advertisement you see for other groups.
it's a lot of things including the fact that when asked about gender fluidity last year in regards to positive representation via player choice/customization they didn't have anything to say.
 

DealWithIt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
440
Well, in my opinion, if I'm making a dystopian work of fiction I would look for current issues around the world and show an aggravated version of those issues. That would make the world feel more grounded and somehow more realistic.
They'd need to have a reliable track record for that to work at all. Instead it's just gonna look like punching down.
 

Suikodan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
368
It is a statement tho.
Works of fiction ARE STATEMENTS, ESPECIALLY cyberpunk.
Really? Bills are passed based of these statements? People die or get judged by "these" statements?

So if I play a game where people are killed and I win, the statement here would be "KILL2WIN LOL!" so instead of saying to my kids to "enjoy the fiction inside the TV but don't assume for one second that real life is like that", I should just throw everything in the dumpster and protect them from the evil world and everything that is being said and written?

It's what you make of these statements that matters. That "fictional" ad won't change my view about a real person who would be in the same situation.
 

Fjordson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,467
Not gonna lie, I don't hate it (when taken out of context of all the earlier shit they did). I don't find the content of the poster inherently bad, if a trans woman made such content I'd be like "that's fuckin rad."

Rather have "trans woman are sexy" content than "trans woman are a disgusting joke" content. ...It's something! Still not buying this game though.

(Cis people, don't quote this post and say "See she doesn't hate it! You're just sensitive!!" I can 100% see why this would irk some people, we're not a hivemind, etc etc)
Straight cis male here with zero experience as a trans person so take this what it's worth, but this is how I kinda felt upon first seeing it. Like in CP 2077's society a trans person can be clearly present on an ad and it can be desirable or provocative.

But as you mentioned, given CDPR's weird history in other instances with social issues, I can't really give them the benefit of the doubt with the game as a whole. Just how I read this ad in a vacuum.

edit: and this is assuming the ad is seen by the game's society as positive and / or desirable. Hopefully it's not played as some goofy joke.
 

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
978
I don't know how you can be so dismissive. That you went from me suggesting we can be critical without just saying "it's how it is!" to me calling for "sterilization" is purely bizarre.

That you tried to spin me as someone looking to take politics out of games is fucking hilarious.

Your "wild guess" is just absurd! xD

Please read the thread.
I didn't try to spin it, I directly sent the burden back at you to defend why this is not equivalent. You are just as capable of making fallacies as every other human being.

My wild guess isn't what is important, it is what comes before that: If this ad is taking a stab at advertisements from large corporations that use fetishized/extreme styles to garner attention, would you not be behind the theme that these are problematic?

I'm not being dismissive, in real life or in the context of world that is suppose to a pinnacle of civilization like the Citadel in Mass Effect, this ad would be a problem. Cyberpunk is going to cover a lot more themes than violence, and when a number of those revolve around wealth and corporations, their in-world advertisements should be predatory, discriminatory, and offensive. The world needs to show it is essentially trash for 95% of its themes to work.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,262
it's a lot of things including the fact that when asked about gender fluidity last year in regards to positive representation via player choice/customization they didn't have anything to say.
People's uncertainty on how the game will handle these things is obviously understandable because of CDPR, just saying it seemed like how people view the poster may be dependent on that.
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,241
I can't believe we're actually getting people pulling the "Historical Accuracy" card for the future cyberpunk game.

Don't you bigots know any other words?
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,177
I thought the issue was the CDPR is questionable and people don't know if there will be more positive representation than this poster. If there is more positive representation then the poster would be seen as the standard objectifying advertisement you see for other groups.
I mean that's also part of it, but that folds more into the "this is in a vacuum" thing because until the game comes out...we won't know.

But if this is how they're handling the idea of trans representation...is there really any reason to be hopeful?
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
406
I thought the issue was the CDPR is questionable and people don't know if there will be more positive representation than this poster. If there is more positive representation then the poster would be seen as the standard objectifying advertisement you see for other groups.
The name of the drink basically being "chromosome monster" stops me from agreeing with this.

Right, there definitely needs to be some kind of exposition about the issues. The game hasn't been released yet so we don't know about it, but if it's doesn't it's definitely problematic.
Let's be honest, do you really think the game is going to delve into nuanced trans issues? It's a throwaway ad for shock value at trans peoples' expense.
 

AmbientRuin

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
335
Well, I think we can at least assume there is going to be sexual content/sexual implants advertised in ads now, as opposed to this ad just being about juice or something and the person in it depicted as is for no apparent contextual reasons.
Why would you assume that just because of 2 seperate ads in a trailer from 2 years ago, versus the Ad itself today. It's about a drink, hence the 16 flavors
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,971
I don't see what's wrong with the picture, legitimately. What is offensive about it?
The group shown in the poster has almost universally felt the representation is a negative one, at least from my exposure. I spell that out because it's important to take that at face value. At best possible reading, they're being fetishized for outsiders. At worst, they're the butt of a joke and being fetishized.

If you think the joke of the poster is about mocking corporate advertising, then the trans figure is meant to convey something ridiculous to compare with fifteen flavors for a soda. If you thinkg the poster is about a literal penis drink (I don't think the text supports this, but whatev), that concept implies the trans identity is just a flippant choice, which is a key misunderstanding of trans identity more generally.

A lot of people will have a lot of different takes on this, so I'd say check out (and take part in) the discussion. The question you asked has been brought up almost verbatim a bunch of times, and a lot of those accounts ended up being burners for trolling, so you'll get some harsh reactions. CDPR having actively mocked trans identity through their social media accounts in the past makes it harder/impossible to assume this isn't intentional.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,508
Still, I stayed basically quiet on the image because I wanted to see 2 things: First, I wanted to see more opinions that weren't my own immediate reaction, acknowledging that any immediate reaction someone will have about something with nuance and complexity will be wrong, and I didn't want to trust my own. Second, I wanted to see the reaction of those the image most effected; placing their take and opinion on the matter as a priority view. This isn't an image about me in some future sci-fi world, but about someone else; why shouldn't I wait, and listen?
It really is this simple. Yet here we are, once again on this fucking forum, with a thread being derailed by overly sensitive outraged clowns who can't stand their favorite company being questioned even a little bit. Pathetic.

As for my take on this ad in particular, it could go either way depending on the context. However, there is definitely plenty of discussion to be had until and even after context is provided. It's an interesting representation that can be taken many different ways, many of them incredibly offensive. I'm already boycotting CDPR because of previous garbage and a general spinelessness in their messaging so it doesn't impact my purchasing decision in particular, but I appreciate reading what others are saying regardless.

Also it's really funny reading these claims about people who don't want to support this company financially "overreacting" or whatever with people saying "it's just a game, can't you relax and just play it?". Hey, guess what? You're right - it's just a game in a world where I still have well over 600 games on Steam I haven't even finished yet. I'm missing out on next to nothing by not playing it. Big fucking deal.

Really? Bills are passed based of these statements? People die or get judged by "these" statements?
I know you probably have your head too far up your own ass to begin understanding this; but to a certain extent - yes? Culture influences culture. Mind-blowing concept, I know.
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,241
Really? Bills are passed based of these statements? People die or get judged by "these" statements?

So if I play a game where people are killed and I win, the statement here would be "KILL2WIN LOL!" so instead of saying to my kids to "enjoy the fiction inside the TV but don't assume for one second that real life is like that", I should just throw everything in the dumpster and protect them from the evil world and everything that is being said and written?

It's what you make of these statements that matters. That "fictional" ad won't change my view about a real person who would be in the same situation.
Man imagine being proud of how stupid and ignorant you are.
 

MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
1,373
Ah yes. Entertainment where trans people are punchlines and where black people are referred to as animals. Got it.

Thanks for showing your ass.
You got the wrong person, the person I quoted said that because trans people aren’t accepted in the real world so we shouldn’t expect them to be accepted in a dystopian world, which is complete horseshit, since this is a piece of entertainment and not a realistic depiction of the future.

Trans people can and should be accepted in games (as they should in real life as well)
 

uzipukki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,790
Really? Bills are passed based of these statements? People die or get judged by "these" statements?

So if I play a game where people are killed and I win, the statement here would be "KILL2WIN LOL!" so instead of saying to my kids to "enjoy the fiction inside the TV but don't assume for one second that real life is like that", I should just throw everything in the dumpster and protect them from the evil world and everything that is being said and written?

It's what you make of these statements that matters. That "fictional" ad won't change my view about a real person who would be in the same situation.
I literally have no idea what you're talking about. The fact that the ad exists is a statement. Someone drew it, someone thought of the catch phrase, someone thought up the product name. Those people who did that have views and values which they have attached to those things they thought up, either consciously or unconsciously. But that doesn't change the fact that they are making a statement with what they produced.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,177
So if I play a game where people are killed and I win, the statement here would be "KILL2WIN LOL!" so instead of saying to my kids to "enjoy the fiction inside the TV but don't assume for one second that real life is like that", I should just throw everything in the dumpster and protect them from the evil world and everything that is being said and written?
I mean we're coming form a point where animation studios are putting disclaimers on their DVDs because a lot of the content they made in the past was extremely racist.

Fiction absolutely has statements, polticial and otherwise within them. It's why letting the television raise your kids is a bad idea. People I grew up with thought Pepe Le Pew was funny as hell, and were also being taught that "no" doesn't mean anything.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,671
I didn't try to spin it, I directly sent the burden back at you to defend why this is not equivalent. You are just as capable of making fallacies as every other human being.

My wild guess isn't what is important, it is what comes before that: If this ad is taking a stab at advertisements from large corporations that use fetishized/extreme styles to garner attention, would you not be behind the theme that these are problematic?

I'm not being dismissive, in real life or in the context of world that is suppose to a pinnacle of civilization like the Citadel in Mass Effect, this ad would be a problem. Cyberpunk is going to cover a lot more themes than violence, and when a number of those revolve around wealth and corporations, their in-world advertisements should be predatory, discriminatory, and offensive. The world needs to show it is essentially trash for 95% of its themes to work.
You tried to spin it. I didn't come close to the extremes you painted my post in.

Yoir weird attempts at spin are truly bizarre and your dismissal is gross.

Read the thread
 

kitchenmotors

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,685
Illinois
Anytime someone tries to tell me how progressive ERA is I'm just gonna pull out this thread. Holy shit this is embarrassing.
Era isn’t that progressive, tbh. Gamers here love to dismiss things when it comes to stuff like CDPR and Atlus, but still want to be called allies or woke. It’s rather sad and has become worse the past year or two. People are just more comfortable showing their true colors in the post-Trump era.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,177
Anytime someone tries to tell me how progressive ERA is I'm just gonna pull out this thread. Holy shit this is embarrassing.
This place is not the liberal safe space the internet paints it to be.

Era isn’t that progressive, tbh. Gamers here love to dismiss things when it comes to stuff like CDPR and Atlus, but still want to be called allies or woke. It’s rather sad and has become worse the past year or two. People are just more comfortable showing their true colors in the post-Trump era.
"Anything and everything....as long as I get to play the video game."
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,898
There’s a pretty damning heuristic here: it’s the third or fourth CDPR/GOG related thread here in a year where transphobic chucklefucks get out of their cave to get banned in droves.
This should at the very least question why this keeps happening, and what kind of audience they cultivate.

A helicopter is a helicopter until it becomes a bat signal for human waste to assemble.
 

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
978
You tried to spin it. I didn't come close to the extremes you painted my post in.

Yoir weird attempts at spin are truly bizarre and your dismissal is gross.

Read the thread
Just answer me one question: If a WW2 game had ad's in a Nazi Germany depicting Jews in the monstrous ways they actually were propagandized during the time period, would you take issue?
 

Josip Kostic

Banned
Jan 2, 2018
5
User banned (permanent): hostility, troll account in junior phase
Jesus, let's get outraged that a dystopian future is showing messed up ads. Let's bitcc and moan on social media until no company dares do anything outside of anyones comfort-zone. Sounds like a fun gaming future! /S

This place is a joke. Personally love the fucked up world they have shown so far. Game is still day zero as far as I'm concerned.
 

uzipukki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,790
Jesus, let's get outraged that a dystopian future is showing messed up ads. Let's bitcc and moan on social media until no company dares do anything outside of anyones comfort-zone. Sounds like a fun gaming future! /S

This place is a joke. Personally love the fucked up world they have shown so far. Game is still day zero as far as I'm concerned.
You're more than welcome to leave... Also lol, 5 posts in 1,5 years. Wooow.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,609
Netherlands
It is a statement tho.
Well the statement could be "fetishization is dystopic".
I think sexual fetishization is part and parcel of cyberpunk, seeing as selling bodies is one of the age old extremes of unbridled moral free capitalism, as well as monetizing gender bending part of a possible transhumanism future. *In itself* I don't see a lot wrong with this poster (as it relates to the dystopic setting obviously).

However, there is no context free creation of course, and so I also think people are totally justified not to have any patience with CD Projekt Red given their extensive history of skirting bigotry, and I certainly think trans people (or not just trans people, but everyone) are fully justified to demand a lot more positive representation before being okay with a single case of fetishization.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,177
Jesus, let's get outraged that a dystopian future is showing messed up ads. Let's bitcc and moan on social media until no company dares do anything outside of anyones comfort-zone. Sounds like a fun gaming future! /S

This place is a joke. Personally love the fucked up world they have shown so far. Game is still day zero as far as I'm concerned.
"I don't care, just let me play the video game".

Why are you even here man?
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,907
Jesus, let's get outraged that a dystopian future is showing messed up ads. Let's bitcc and moan on social media until no company dares do anything outside of anyones comfort-zone. Sounds like a fun gaming future! /S

This place is a joke. Personally love the fucked up world they have shown so far. Game is still day zero as far as I'm concerned.
Having an avatar won't save you.
 

accx

Member
Oct 28, 2017
257
Oh god here they come again

EDIT: Sorry i can't contribute with anything more than what several other brilliant posters have already said.
I'm just tired.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,508
Jesus, let's get outraged that a dystopian future is showing messed up ads. Let's bitcc and moan on social media until no company dares do anything outside of anyones comfort-zone. Sounds like a fun gaming future! /S

This place is a joke. Personally love the fucked up world they have shown so far. Game is still day zero as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks for sharing, person who clearly doesn't give a single shit about this issue. Your opinion is the most important one. Go talk about something you care about in your own little sand box instead.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Why would you assume that just because of 2 seperate ads in a trailer from 2 years ago, versus the Ad itself today. It's about a drink, hence the 16 flavors
It seems like a sexualized ad and given that the world has goofy shit like the Mr Studd or Midnight Lady sexual implants, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a drink that increases your penis size/acts as viagra.

I mean I'm not saying I'm right, just it seems there is a pretty sexualised element to this world.

Here's an old topic

Would someone be so kind as to describe this Mr. Studd?

It's cyberreplacement's answer to Viagra. (What was the ad copy? "All night, Every Night, and she'll never know...", of course, that was just the basic model. Get one tricked out with the optional features, and she'll know.)
I always assumed Midnight Lady was equivalent to breast implants. The bonus to seduction in that case is obvious.

BTW, anyone else noticed who owns the area where Knight City is in Shadowrun?

-Frank

At least I know from that topic my eyesight is decent and it does say V3.0.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,898
At this point, it would probably be easier for mods to run a script that makes them mark what junior posts that feature the word “outrage” shouldn’t be banned for being shitty burners.
 

Trickster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,002
It's obviously a type of ad that would be considered offensive and inappropriate if something like it was displayed in our world in a similar place.

However within the context of a dystopian cyberpunk setting it kinda makes sense that you'd see this type of ad, doesn't it? It's a shitty future where evil corporations run everything, and where the human body is considered something you can easily alter for whatever reason you want. Kinda makes sense you'd see ads like this in that kind of future. At least in my mind.
 

ScribbleD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
550
Just answer me one question: If a WW2 game had ad's in a Nazi Germany depicting Jews in the monstrous ways they actually were propagandized during the time period, would you take issue?
It depends. Is the game about how cool and edgy Nazi Germany was? Do the creators have a history of sympathizing with the Nazis or showing contempt towards Jews? Is there reason to believe they will actually thoughtfully interrogate that vile propaganda? Those things would factor in to how I perceive elements of the worlds they make.

Some other devs may have earned the benefit of the doubt by being socially conscious and thoughtfully interrogating aspects of the worlds they build, particularly when it comes to social commentary on issues that are very real and virulent today. CDPR does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,671
Just answer me one question: If a WW2 game had ad's in a Nazi Germany depicting Jews in the monstrous ways they actually were propagandized during the time period, would you take issue?
There are voices in this thread explaining how this kind of fetishized representation is harmful. It being part of a genre that deals in those extremes does not make it free from critique or perpetuation of negative presentations and general bigotry. It doesn't help that the company has a spotty record here.

You cannot uncouple these things, and your attempts to position yourself as the intellectual one seeing the big picture while ignoring the voices just shows you up.
 

sahfarry

Member
Jan 16, 2019
176
This thread is helping me learn that I understand very little about trans issues or perspectives. I recognize that this poster is not being received well. Is there a post in this thread that explains why? Might be a good threadmark.

Is this offensive because the bulge is clearly visible in a very sexual fashion, thus treating this trans person as a sexual object and treating their identity as a fetish? Am I on the right path? I've heard people suggest that the text on the poster, and/or something related to body modifications in the cyberpunk world has something to do with the offensiveness - is this the case?

Sorry if these answers should be pretty obvious. Guess I'm recognizing that I'm pretty ignorant to what exactly is going on here, and I would like to eliminate that ignorance.

And if this question has already been answered, directling me towards it would be helpful. Maybe nice to threadmark idk
 

kitchenmotors

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,685
Illinois
Jesus, let's get outraged that a dystopian future is showing messed up ads. Let's bitcc and moan on social media until no company dares do anything outside of anyones comfort-zone. Sounds like a fun gaming future! /S

This place is a joke. Personally love the fucked up world they have shown so far. Game is still day zero as far as I'm concerned.
I’ll point it out to everyone here. 5 posts, shit posting. There’s a fucking pattern.

Thanks.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,924
UK
Just answer me one question: If a WW2 game had ad's in a Nazi Germany depicting Jews in the monstrous ways they actually were propagandized during the time period, would you take issue?
This is a thread about a throwaway "oh look a chick with a dick" advert in Cyberpunk 2077, with the words "Mix It Up!" and "Chromanticore".

In what way is that question relevant? There is no real comparison for a Cyberpunk world, so when all you're relying on is "the world is shitty" but then you're selective over what parts are actually shitty – because there's certainly not everything that's shitty IRL in the game – then it's perfectly fine to question where that line is drawn.
 
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