This fetishized in-game ad from Cyberpunk 2077 raises some questions about how the game may depict LGBT (NSFW) [See Staff Post Before Posting]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,909
UK
I have a suspicion that any response from them will not be well received or believed, to be quite honest.
You seem to imply this is with the affronted side being irrational and not able to be appeased.

Instead it's that the CDP Group have gone from a non-apology for one transphobic incident, to flat-out not apologising in the next transphobic incident, to... whatever the hell this is.

So when two incidents are transphobic and the response is a non-apology and no apology, why is the immediate doubt being cast on behalf of the recipients of the response-to-be rather than the response itself.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,526
Honestly the topic of gender and presentation in this kind of setting is actually really interesting, but I'm not so interested in what a dodgy corporation has to say about it.
I think the context of the depiction being for that specific product ad kind of says it all. It seems to me like there wasn't much thought put into it, someone just thought it was clever cyberpunk set-dressing.
 

TheMrPliskin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,185
Honestly the topic of gender and presentation in this kind of setting is actually really interesting, but I'm not so interested in what a dodgy corporation has to say about it.
It's a topic that could be explored really well in a Cyberpunk setting, and probably has been before. But like you say, CDPR is not the team I trust to tackle the topic at all.
 

Ponn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,008
Because the title of the OP kinda implies it.

But do we know concretely that this is a trans person or something else?

This isn’t about giving benefit of the doubt before anyone replies to me, this is about validating what we are seeing so that the outrage and anger is justified.
You ever notice how rumors of MS and Nintendo teaming up become guaranteed stories among gamers but when it comes to calling game devs out on blatant transphobia it suddenly needs a thorough investigation from multiple parties and a congressional investigation before an opinion can be made.

Never change gaming community, allies you will never be.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,405
NYC
chromosomes are parts of your genes that make up who you are. Your X/Y chromosomes will determine your sex based on what combination you are born with.
Manticore is a mythological beast known for being a combination of several different beasts like a scorpion tail, human head and lion body.
I think chromosome might be a stretch when it could be just chrome which fits the cyberpunk theme.
No, it's chromosome and a portmanteau of chromosome and manticore. It's fairly easy to break down?

The ad is "Mix it up" and you have someone presenting a traditionally feminine look, while having a throbbing, thinly-veiled penis. Cyberpunk is a genre that's rife for the potential to explore what gender and identity even are, as part of the traditional aesthetic is body modding (which brings to mind the ship of Theseus debate), so it event fits the cyberpunk theme better than "chrome".
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,781
I have a suspicion that any response from them will not be well received or believed, to be quite honest. I’m already getting the “GOTCHA” vibes from some of the responses.

And in end I completely agree that they are responsible for their own work and depictions and yeah, given their history should provide a response or explanation.

But again, I don’t think it’ll be believed or accepted.
I don't believe you sincerely think that there's a problem with this or that CDPR should comment given how you think all it'll wind up being is some kind of "GOTCHA". Those two things never go together. Say what you really feel. Don't hide behind this wishy washy bullshit.
 

M.J. Doja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
411
Straight up gross. Is the erect dick outline thing remotely defensible? Completely inappropriate and pointless.

Just looks like some porno fetish stuff. Doubly confusing when you consider it's from a company you can't really give the benefit of the doubt to.

That's just to start.
 

Schierke Mori

Member
Oct 28, 2017
248
Genuinely curious how this is transphobic.

Is the model in the ad trans? What’s wrong with them having a dick?

Advertising has always used problematic & heavily sexualized imagery to crassly sell shit. In the capitalism run amok, body-mod h+ world of Cyberpunk 20whatever, doesn’t this ad fit right in? Isn’t this a form of equal opportunity representation / exploitation? Like, isn’t this a believable extrapolation of our current fetishistic advertising’s trends?

I’m admittedly coming at this as a cishet dude though, I’m not trying to tell anyone how to feel.
This is my take as well - didn't know how to word it.
 

Doop

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
108
It doesn't matter if the artist intended for them to be trans or not. It's still a trans coded character playing off of hurtful stereotypes that have been used against trans people for years.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,705
Greater Vancouver
Is it commentary on the commercialization of the LGBT community and the emphasis of identity is something you purchase or is it just a really bad joke?
Do you think the company that goes with a "sorry you got offended" apology when called out on previous lazy transphobic infractions is making a subtle nuanced comment here, that also happens to be deeply mired in transphobia?
 

Delphine

Member
Mar 30, 2018
592
France
I was looking for a reaction gif in order to convey my feelings but I can't even find a proper one.

CDPR better explain this ASAP, because fuck this transphobic shit, really.
 

Pandora012

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,919
Cross-Dresser is currently the preferred choice of word because "drag" has the negative image of middle-aged men with beards standing on corner streets that the media in the 80's and 90's hammered into the people.



If a person considers themselves Trans or Cross-Dresser, regardless if they just change clothes, is their choice. No-one should label them with what they don't consider themselves to be. Not straight people and not fringe trans/gay groups.
That literally did not answer my question.
 

spad3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,990
California
What is resetera's obsession with hammering CDPR over this stuff? Who cares how they depict anyone, just keep making great games and I will keep giving you my money.
Yikes...

This "stuff" is a huge sensitive social issue that's supposedly being treated poorly here. CDPR has had history of transphobic tweets and public outbursts (to which they have publicly apologized for and have sacked those responsible). The fact that it keeps happening is concerning to folk that are being represented (and indirectly mocked) who are interested in the game but because the developer is openly mocking them is offensive.

Take some time out to learn about the situation. It's "stuff" to you but its the everyday lives of some people. Like for example, this situation doesn't concern me as a hetero male, but I have friends that are part of the LGBTQ+ community and they face discrimination regarding their identities all the time, let alone representation. It's insulting to that crowd that the only representation that they have is one that's a mockery.

Personally, to me it's such a small thing in the game that it doesn't affect my decision or perspective of the game, but for some people - people that are part of the involved community - issues like this are make-or-break on their purchase of the game.

We don't know anything about it besides what is shown in the OP. Put into context of what's happened on Gog and CDPR, it makes it hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Well they could easily write it off as "drag" to save face, but yeah given their history it's hard to defend them in this regard.
 

zainmosni

Member
Apr 17, 2018
68
User Banned (3 Days): Inappropriate commentary in sensitive subject thread
It could just be a ordinary very skinny androgynous dude.
Either way dats some good cock there.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,480
You know in said theoretical universe this might not be as bad, but this was designed by a person today that cannot be divorced from the realities of the world we live in. Combine that with their stances before and......this company really just can't learn.
 

Septimius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
417
Between that and "Mix it up", it seems like an in universe advertisement for a drink that allows you to transition between genders? Might be an interesting concept, don't blame people for not giving them the benefit of doubt though.
That's pretty transphobic or ignorant, though, isn't it? Since gender is identity, saying you can drink something to change your identity smacks sort of like saying homosexuality is a choice. I'd say that since issues of gender and sex often hit deep at a person's identity, there's a frail nature to figuring out ones identity. Saying "in our world there's a drink that lets you just swap" would feel to make that issue seem very much smaller than it is.
 
Do you think the company that goes with a "sorry you got offended" apology when called out on previous lazy transphobic infractions is making a subtle nuanced comment here, that also happens to be deeply mired in transphobia?
Implying that the guy who got fired from running the gog twitter account has fuck all to do with the writing or art of the game.
 
Staff Post: Discussion Guidelines (read before posting)

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
5,420
ResetEra
Official Staff Communication
This thread is now open, please accept our apologies for any delays.

The majority of this thread has gone quite well, but given the way some members have responded to these discussions lately, we wanted to lay out some expectations here.

Mainstream culture is shared by everyone, including marginalized and minority groups. Because this culture is shared between people with many different identities and backgrounds, people may have unique observations, thoughts, or concerns about what they see and consume. Our relationship to culture is personal and these points of view should be treated with dignity and respect.

Furthermore, it is important to understand that simply observing and discussing culture is not necessarily an attack or a call to action. Don't ascribe notions of outrage or fury to people just starting a conversation about something that occurs to them. Surely even those who are most concerned about the imagery would favor an outcome that lays their concerns to rest.

The motivation behind this image, its creation, and its intention are currently not clear. The fetishization of LGBT people is something the community has always contended with and having a conversation about when and how it manifests is perfectly reasonable. Let's keep this thread on track and stay respectful and thoughtful to one another.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,967
Reactions from a cross-section of trans developers and writers I follow throughout Twitter have seen this as cis fetishizing at "best," and a directed insult at the worst. It's hard to disagree with them, even putting aside past events from this dev and its PR.

Imagine any art where the "punchline" is a class of people. I'm caring less and less what CDPR has to say in its cyberpunk setting, and no, I don't buy the "showing it doesn't mean they endorse it" malarkey in this context. If the broader narrative implicitly/explicitly criticizes it, that would obviously change that. But I'm also not a moron, so I don't expect that.
 

Joey Ravn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,493
But, people, it's just a bad apple! It's not the corporate culture of CDPR!
/s

I just don't buy it anymore, sorry. It's repeated behavior.
 

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
1,739
Yikes and all but - who says this is a trans person?
More importantly, what do transexual and transvestite people think of this?

Reactions from a cross-section of trans developers and writers I follow throughout Twitter have seen this as cis fetishizing at "best," and a directed insult at the worst. It's hard to disagree with them, even putting aside past events from this dev and its PR.

Imagine any art where the "punchline" is a class of people. I'm caring less and less what CDPR has to say in its cyberpunk setting, and no, I don't buy the "showing it doesn't mean they endorse it" malarkey in this context. If the broader narrative implicitly/explicitly criticizes it, that would obviously change that. But I'm not a moron, so I don't expect that.
There's my answer. Gutting.
 

Suicide King

Member
Oct 27, 2017
523
Honestly? Fuck this company.

I'm tired of how many people are willing to ignore these real world issues as if gaming was one of the most important things in the world. There are better games out there that I can support.
 
Oct 29, 2017
662
I mean, society in CP2077 looks like a pretty awful place so such a crap ad would fit in the game universe?

We know too little of the game to understand what's going on to be honest.
 

EYEL1NER

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,172
Between that and "Mix it up", it seems like an in universe advertisement for a drink that allows you to transition between genders? Might be an interesting concept, don't blame people for not giving them the benefit of doubt though.
That was pretty much my first thought as well. I saw the product slogan, product name, and the ad's image and assumed it was a drink that would allow you to grow a dick and experiment with it or something else body mod-related. It reminded me of the cyberpunk-ish future of Batman Beyond where people experimented with splicing their DNA with that of animals as a recreational hobby. I'm also not going to rush to defend CDPR over anything or blame anyone who assumes the worst about it either since the intent or meaning is unknown and they apparently have exhibited insensitivity to the trans community in the past.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,967
What's the problem here? Its 2077. Tastes and times change. This site above all should know that.
Reactions from the group "represented" in the poster have been (from my exposure) almost entirely negative, and the poster seems to frame its own audience as being outside of that group. The "joke" of the poster basically boils down to that a class of people existing. Getting a little more granular about it: Even if you read it as a literal penis drink (which the copy doesn't support), that concept implies the identity involved is just an arbitrary choice, which is a key misunderstanding of trans identity more generally. It's probably worth thinking about these aspects of it.

A lot of people will have a lot of different takes on this, so I'd say check out (and take part in) the discussion.
 
Last edited:

Yerffej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,382
The Manticore things is something else. Like I get what you're going for. It's a hybridized society now. People are part machine as well as anything else they choose. Throwing a giant dick in there is just begging to be asked what part of this person you consider is a beast. That ain't a good look. At all.

I should also note it's still fucked up to just have a raging hard-on for no reason in the poster. It's just...
 

PrintedCrayon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
440
Seadome
This...

What is the problem? I really don’t see it. Can’t people dress like that? Is it wrong? What?
I think it's more to do with CDPR's transphobic tweet history.

I'm still not sure what exactly is transphobic about this in a world where you can swap out body parts on a whim, but I am also reluctant to ask why exactly it's transphobic because I know Era sees asking questions as dogwhistling or alt-right nonsense.
 

jason10mm

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
383
Tn, USA
I don't think it is a transperson at all, rather some sort of sex toy prosthetic for a woman who wants to experience what a man does. Notice there are no testicles and the device seems to come in a tube container. I wonder if there is a male version ad in the game somewhere. Maybe it represents some type of sex organ fluid culture.

But the company ideology aside, how WOULD a future society that could perform body modifications and sex organ reassignment as a routine over the counter procedure treat this stuff? It could be a productive conversation. If cis-gendered straight people could casually and reversibly change sex "for fun" would that normalize transpeople, marginalize them, or eliminate the concept entirely? How would that type of thing be depicted in ads? This ad implies that at least a superficial type of male sex organ prosthetic is a cool and hip thing to do. Is it a cybernetic strap-on (my guess) or a total replacement of the external female genitalia? Giving people broad access to the "gear" of the opposite sex would probably normalize sex reassignment surgery and reduce stigma for transpeople.

Obviously this kind of thing could be used to mock as well, and may well be what is going on. But from the image alone it is hard (for me) to tell.
 

Vintage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
533
Europe
I mean. It’s a cyberpunk universe. The person could be a trans woman with a penis, could be a man in drag, could be man who wants to dress effeminate. Like seriously, without any context within the game- how can you tell. For all we know, they’re just a woman with some kind of insane body modification that puts the goddamn robot claw in their pelvis. I dunno- it’s dystopian future, and showing off what could be a non-binary person up front and in an ad seems cool and more body positive than anything? It’s not in a mocking tone, it’s not using insulting language, and the in game advertisement is front and center in universe.

Or I could be totally wrong. But without any context behind the in-universe explanation of what I’m being shown, I can’t say for sure.
Yes, absolutely. When I first saw it I thought how great it fits the universe.
 

Thagirion

Member
Dec 6, 2018
83
For those who are into CyberPunks RPG this fits the world quite well, CyberPunk world is full of hypocrisy and it’s a constant materialistic - it’s normal for that world to be fetichise everything. Society is a constant metal illness, bizarre would be if in a CyberPunk world the people would care for social stuff
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,369
I mean. It’s a cyberpunk universe. The person could be a trans woman with a penis, could be a man in drag, could be man who wants to dress effeminate. Like seriously, without any context within the game- how can you tell. For all we know, they’re just a woman with some kind of insane body modification that puts the goddamn robot claw in their pelvis. I dunno- it’s dystopian future, and showing off what could be a non-binary person up front and in an ad seems cool and more body positive than anything? It’s not in a mocking tone, it’s not using insulting language, and the in game advertisement is front and center in universe.

Or I could be totally wrong. But without any context behind the in-universe explanation of what I’m being shown, I can’t say for sure.
The problem is that the context is other things CDPR have done over the last few years
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,896
In a vacuum, you could always ascribe this to tone deafness and leave it at that, hoping they’ll listen, but it’s hard to not see a pattern here in the studio’s (lack of) consideration for trans communities.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.