How about we ACT TOWARDS getting an equal society? Or do you think that it will fall from the sky one day to another, and just THEN we will decide that everyone deserves respect?
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This fetishized in-game ad from Cyberpunk 2077 raises some questions about how the game may depict LGBT (NSFW) [See Staff Post Before Posting]
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Or they believe in it themselves
Step 1 is to stop tolerating Intolerance
This is the very reason why companies like CDPR need to have really, really good communication and community managers.
Considering their past Twitter activity, my first reaction was a mix of disappointment and anger. Usually when something like this happens I sort of prepare for the worst.
I still hope that maybe, just maybe, this is not what I think it is. Mainly because my limited understanding of Cyberpunk tells me gender identification and everything related to it would be a great theme for a game like that.
I will wait for reviews and opinions on how they handle this before buying, that's for sure. :(
Considering their past Twitter activity, my first reaction was a mix of disappointment and anger. Usually when something like this happens I sort of prepare for the worst.
I still hope that maybe, just maybe, this is not what I think it is. Mainly because my limited understanding of Cyberpunk tells me gender identification and everything related to it would be a great theme for a game like that.
I will wait for reviews and opinions on how they handle this before buying, that's for sure. :(
History says acting towards getting an equal society would literally be the opposite of bowing to your oppressor with niceties.
Calling out straight white males is not discrimination.
Man, some of you coming out of the woodwork with 32 posts is telling.
But context matters. Wolfenstein displaying Nazi imagery is part and parcel of its narrative. For all we know, this advertisement is a nondescript (to them) part of the world CDPR is building and the importance of transhumanism in it... but therein lies the problem. One, CDPR has a history of being, at best, tone deaf when it comes to the LGBTQ+ community with the things it's done and at worst, willfully insensitive to a marginalized community. There are surely more effective ways to normalize/promote/tolerate trans people without an obscenely explicit advertisement with questionable and implicative taglines.
If they want to get the benefit of the doubt and have good intentions assigned to their creative decisions, they need to be more aware of how to portray things in a positive light instead of an exploitative one.
Yep. Threads like these make it easy to see why the alt-right thrives in the gaming community.
And I never tolerated intolerance. And that's a big and dangerous assumption of yours since all I said is that everyone, regardless gender and color, deserves respect.
Oppression isn't always conscious or intentional. Being part of an hegemony means that you are part of the group that oppresses.
The point is why should the oppressed have to act nice to their oppressors while being oppressed? That's what you're saying here -- that LGBT people should not call out the straight white community for oppressing them, because then we're not "equal". It makes no sense.
Stonewall would've never happened if we just played nice and gave in to the bullshit from the gender norm community while hoping things get better.
I don't expect straight people to understand the fight that the queer community has put itself through, but give us respect when we stand up against bigotry if you're a so called ally.
I didn't see it as fetishized at all.
I saw it as the drink corporation trying to promote their product with an over the top, out of touch, ad. Almost like a crazy ad in a GTA game.
But again, this is also a cyberpunk world, where people are free to basically have any body they want now. It's an accepted thing. But this energy drink company is trying to make it seem like a bad thjng.
I saw it as the drink corporation trying to promote their product with an over the top, out of touch, ad. Almost like a crazy ad in a GTA game.
But again, this is also a cyberpunk world, where people are free to basically have any body they want now. It's an accepted thing. But this energy drink company is trying to make it seem like a bad thjng.
This is my feeling too. I can't tell if it's a cheap joke or a cyberpunk "plus ça change..." commentary on consumerism (i.e. We may accept genderfluidity in the future, but objectification and hypersexualisation will still be used to sell soft drinks).
I'm not going to judge until we see the final game, but it's certainly looking a bit suspect from the trailers and other footage so far.
I hope they try for a bit of nuance and don't just cram in a bunch of "badass" sterotypes.
Let me know when straight white males stop being overly fragile and resisting tolerance of marginalized communities asking for basic decency, respect, humanization and representation that isn't objectifying and stereotypical.
This "woe is me" when it comes to people thinking that heterosexual white cis males are not respected or tolerated amazes me one could even have the audacity to espouse the ignorance of such a thing. But please, do tell us how the aforementioned group is discriminated against in any meaningful way that has real world implications.
Just another example of privilege. Some of you wouldn't last a day in a subjugated minority's shoes.
This ad was in last years demo. Seems like it's of a sexual nature, given the one above it with "All Night Every Night".
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... I have no words. What a disgusting post.
This thread has taken a very nasty turn, it seems like. In hindsight, it is clear that the only people who should really chime in, are people who are being represented on that image, poorly/offensively or however else.
What bothers me most about situations like this is how exhausting it is to be consistently told these things are "one bad actor". Somewhere in the thick of things there's a debate to be had about how responsible the entire body of a company is for shit like this, sure, but it surely does not start and end with one individual. This does not occur over and over again in a vacuum.
Also, it isn't exclusive to CD Projekt Red, this is the culture at large.
Also, it isn't exclusive to CD Projekt Red, this is the culture at large.
It sucks to be nervous about this stuff. I wish CDPR had a better track record. Because they have a shady track record, everything has to be examined closely, and there is a really good chance that they aren't gonna pass muster. There's no way I would pre order this game based on what I know now. At best, it's wait and see. At worst it's skip the game even if it's "good."
Let's just clarify that it wasn't an assumption but something you literally did, despite your words. If you think calling out intolerance from the straight white community is bad, you're tolerating intolerance. It's not that complicated. And I'm a white guy here, it's not like this is a direct attack on you.
Very strange that you would decide to call out "back-seat modding" when in regard to a post that is factually mocking the LGBTQ community.
Although, considering you've only posted twice in this thread and the other time was this...
... it's pretty clear that you have the same attitude he had.
I don't trust CDPR in regard to representation of Trans characters (I don't trust most companies with that though), and some earlier cases in their PR have been pretty awful (Their tweets).
But we do only really have this image, and barely any in universe context for it, it could be not as bad as it looks (Although I'm not hopeful about that) when the game actually come out and we see what that ad is actually about.
So far though, yeah, I don't think this whole thing will pan out in a positive way, I'm expecting to come out disappointed...
But we do only really have this image, and barely any in universe context for it, it could be not as bad as it looks (Although I'm not hopeful about that) when the game actually come out and we see what that ad is actually about.
So far though, yeah, I don't think this whole thing will pan out in a positive way, I'm expecting to come out disappointed...
Get the fuck out of here with this all lives matter bullshit
I feel like this whole Transhumanism/extreme capitalism angle to the Cyberpunk setting people keep bringing up to justify the ad is a bit of a red herring, intentional or not. Even if a thing fits in completely within the setting and themes of that universe it doesn't just make it OK and at all worthwhile to pursue or include. We live in the real world where this kind of stuff actually matters and affects people on the daily and how media portrays people, especially minority and marginalized people, is important and does affect things. It's not really enough to just say "well in context/universe it makes sense." If the thing being done isn't actually exploring and commenting on real world issues and ideas in a meaningful and thoughtful way and instead it is just exploiting them for shock value or simply because it can be done I can't say I find that to be a very good excuse or concept to defend/protect.
Trans rights and acceptance is a serious struggle and issue in our real world that has real life and death implications for many many people. It's a bit problematic, to say the least, to conflate that real world issue to mostly fictional stuff like extreme body modification via cybernetic prosthesis and other tech as a kind of shock value "look at how radically different this world is to our world" kind of situation. Trans people, non-binary, gender fluid, etc exist in our world, they are not extreme foreign concepts that can only exist in your exotic and extreme fictional world. Using sexually provocative concepts and imagery isn't inherently problematic or bad in an attempt to create a commentary on real world cultural norms in comparison to a fictional one, but how it's handled and presented does matter.
If all there is to this ad is that corporations will exploit and capitalize on anything they can to make money and that fetishistic Trans portrayals are mainstream that isn't a great look. At all. Like that shit is not new or insightful in the least. It's a really sophomoric statement and concept that's been explored to death. Exponentially so if the ad is just there to make the world seem more edgy and extreme than our own because "dick girls" are normal or it's a drink that can give you a dick is marketable. All its achieving is the exploitation of an already exploited and marginalized group conflating exaggerations and fetishes of them as being extreme and edgy for the sake of the setting. If there's actual commentary on the ad itself in the game, what it's selling, who is selling it and what all that means for those people it's exploiting in doing so then it might actually be worth including. Might. But that's a pretty big expectation for what is most likely just one of many posters within the game that won't have any other depth to them beyond filling out the world and making it seem more edgy and extreme than our own.
Trans rights and acceptance is a serious struggle and issue in our real world that has real life and death implications for many many people. It's a bit problematic, to say the least, to conflate that real world issue to mostly fictional stuff like extreme body modification via cybernetic prosthesis and other tech as a kind of shock value "look at how radically different this world is to our world" kind of situation. Trans people, non-binary, gender fluid, etc exist in our world, they are not extreme foreign concepts that can only exist in your exotic and extreme fictional world. Using sexually provocative concepts and imagery isn't inherently problematic or bad in an attempt to create a commentary on real world cultural norms in comparison to a fictional one, but how it's handled and presented does matter.
If all there is to this ad is that corporations will exploit and capitalize on anything they can to make money and that fetishistic Trans portrayals are mainstream that isn't a great look. At all. Like that shit is not new or insightful in the least. It's a really sophomoric statement and concept that's been explored to death. Exponentially so if the ad is just there to make the world seem more edgy and extreme than our own because "dick girls" are normal or it's a drink that can give you a dick is marketable. All its achieving is the exploitation of an already exploited and marginalized group conflating exaggerations and fetishes of them as being extreme and edgy for the sake of the setting. If there's actual commentary on the ad itself in the game, what it's selling, who is selling it and what all that means for those people it's exploiting in doing so then it might actually be worth including. Might. But that's a pretty big expectation for what is most likely just one of many posters within the game that won't have any other depth to them beyond filling out the world and making it seem more edgy and extreme than our own.
User Banned (Permanent): Transphobia, hijacking and trolling a sensitive discussion. Account in junior phase.
Oh... so now we're saying that white men lives doesnt matter? This is going far...
Do you think you're a good person for posting trash like this?
Here we go. What's wrong with what he said, exactly?
He's not saying all heterosexual white males are bigots purposefully oppressing minority groups. At the same time, these responses show that what he posted isn't wrong and has a very real basis in reality.
There's a difference between calling out a straight white male for their behavior and just talking down to them in general.
Being able to point towards one's own discrimination doesn't give someone a free pass. It's not an excuse.
It's a fictional dystopian video game city based off of America... it's not supposed to be politically correct which is why I don't understand all this backlash
The post is actually run-of-the-mill critical theory on privilege, racism and other structural inequalities. You and I, white males don't have to actively hurt or hate anyone to benefit from the I'll effects of racism etc. We live in a world where our viewpoint is taken as "default." That comes with a variety of benefits. You have no choice to receive those benefits, just like marginalized people have no choice to reject the disadvantages they receive. This is all pretty basic.
It's not that simple, really. What's popular effects the world you live in. Abstention isn't a panacea.
I feel like I'm in this boat. It took me a second to figure out what was going on in that image, at which point I brushed it off as being a little odd and out of place, not realizing how offensive such an image (especially given the context) is to some.
Are you familiar with the developer's history? That is a big reason why people are wary about how the game will tackle these issues.
No way in hell that these sort of things are unintentional and based on ignorance about minorities. The guys on CDPR are doing these king of shit with purpose The same way depicting latinos in the demo.
But that's exactly what tons of users are doing with me, and you don't say a word.
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See... it barely took a minute.
I never said it was hard.
And I'm not asking for it.
I know. I never said it was, and I don't know why you assume I ever thought it was.
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