This fetishized in-game ad from Cyberpunk 2077 raises some questions about how the game may depict LGBT (NSFW) [See Staff Post Before Posting]

[Trickster]

It's obviously a type of ad that would be considered offensive and inappropriate if something like it was displayed in our world in a similar place.

However within the context of a dystopian cyberpunk setting it kinda makes sense that you'd see this type of ad, doesn't it? It's a shitty future where evil corporations run everything, and where the human body is considered something you can easily alter for whatever reason you want. Kinda makes sense you'd see ads like this in that kind of future. At least in my mind.

 

[Deleted member 20630]

Just answer me one question: If a WW2 game had ad's in a Nazi Germany depicting Jews in the monstrous ways they actually were propagandized during the time period, would you take issue?

Click to shrink...

It depends. Is the game about how cool and edgy Nazi Germany was? Do the creators have a history of sympathizing with the Nazis or showing contempt towards Jews? Is there reason to believe they will actually thoughtfully interrogate that vile propaganda? Those things would factor in to how I perceive elements of the worlds they make.

Some other devs may have earned the benefit of the doubt by being socially conscious and thoughtfully interrogating aspects of the worlds they build, particularly when it comes to social commentary on issues that are very real and virulent today. CDPR does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[astro]

Just answer me one question: If a WW2 game had ad's in a Nazi Germany depicting Jews in the monstrous ways they actually were propagandized during the time period, would you take issue?

Click to shrink...

There are voices in this thread explaining how this kind of fetishized representation is harmful. It being part of a genre that deals in those extremes does not make it free from critique or perpetuation of negative presentations and general bigotry. It doesn't help that the company has a spotty record here.

You cannot uncouple these things, and your attempts to position yourself as the intellectual one seeing the big picture while ignoring the voices just shows you up.

 

[virtua_44]

This thread is helping me learn that I understand very little about trans issues or perspectives. I recognize that this poster is not being received well. Is there a post in this thread that explains why? Might be a good threadmark.

Is this offensive because the bulge is clearly visible in a very sexual fashion, thus treating this trans person as a sexual object and treating their identity as a fetish? Am I on the right path? I've heard people suggest that the text on the poster, and/or something related to body modifications in the cyberpunk world has something to do with the offensiveness - is this the case?

Sorry if these answers should be pretty obvious. Guess I'm recognizing that I'm pretty ignorant to what exactly is going on here, and I would like to eliminate that ignorance.

And if this question has already been answered, directling me towards it would be helpful. Maybe nice to threadmark idk

 

[Deleted member 925]

Jesus, let's get outraged that a dystopian future is showing messed up ads. Let's bitcc and moan on social media until no company dares do anything outside of anyones comfort-zone. Sounds like a fun gaming future! /S

This place is a joke. Personally love the fucked up world they have shown so far. Game is still day zero as far as I'm concerned.

Click to shrink...

I'll point it out to everyone here. 5 posts, shit posting. There's a fucking pattern.

Thanks.

 

[Ketkat]

.

 

[Kyuuji]

Just answer me one question: If a WW2 game had ad's in a Nazi Germany depicting Jews in the monstrous ways they actually were propagandized during the time period, would you take issue?

Click to shrink...

This is a thread about a throwaway "oh look a chick with a dick" advert in Cyberpunk 2077, with the words "Mix It Up!" and "Chromanticore".

In what way is that question relevant? There is no real comparison for a Cyberpunk world, so when all you're relying on is "the world is shitty" but then you're selective over what parts are actually shitty – because there's certainly not everything that's shitty IRL in the game – then it's perfectly fine to question where that line is drawn.

 

[AndyD]

Well, in my opinion, if I'm making a dystopian work of fiction I would look for current issues around the world and show an aggravated version of those issues. That would make the world feel more grounded and somehow more realistic.

Click to shrink...

This. They are seemingly trying to push the boundaries of various societal norms. It almost feels like somewhat of the basis of the world and puts exacerbated conflict more into frontview.

 

[kaishek]

What is that referring to? Must have missed something.

Click to shrink...

Poland directly subsidizes CDPR as far as I know, which I have no problem with as a policy(I think nurturing infant industries like this is very smart economic policy) BUT the Polish government is in the hands of Catholic soft-authoritarian reactionaries.

Once again, fairly ignorant of CDPR's executive structure or what the terms of their government assistance is, but it doesn't help the overall image. EDIT: What I do know is that CDPR is a big element of Poland's "soft power" projection of its culture internationally, "hey look Poland is a real deal cutting edge country, invest in us" kinda thing.

I really am trying to give some benefit of the doubt because beneath the Witcher's whitewashed veneer was a damn good narrative and exploration of themes. It was, imo, sex positive, gender positive, class conscious, etc. But Cyberpunk is a whole other can of worms and despite knowing they should be careful...the marketing seems like it's just winging it. Cyberpunk is not just about being edgy and saying the bad words but with a punk aesthetic.

 

[JaxiPup]

God, reading an entire thread of people saying 'its okay to marginalize you because its cyberpunk' in a world where Red Strings Club and Hardcoded exist, hits right in the gut

 

[Moose the Mooche]

Is there any context behind the image?

 

[aerozombie]

There are voices in this thread explaining how this kind of fetishized representation is harmful. It being part of a genre that deals in those extremes does not make it free from critique or perpetuation of negative presentations and general bigotry. It doesn't help that the company has a spotty record here.

You cannot uncouple these things, and your attempts to position yourself as the intellectual one seeing the big picture while ignoring the voices just shows you up.

Click to shrink...

Stop evading questions and criticism, its dishonest. Stop trying to throw burdens at others, I fully believe you are capability of responding but want to throw it at everyone else.

 

[astro]

If you really want to go back to the source material, why don't we take a look at how transitioning is treated in it :



The source material is not where you want to be looking for defenses of this kind of representation.

Click to shrink...

Fucking bingo.

"It's okay it's cyberpunk" is not an answer.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Just answer me one question: If a WW2 game had ad's in a Nazi Germany depicting Jews in the monstrous ways they actually were propagandized during the time period, would you take issue?

Click to shrink...

How about you answer me this instead: what is your goal with these posts? Do you want people to stop discussing things? No? Then why are you even posting this type of garbage? Grow up.

Is there any context behind the image?

Click to shrink...

Hard to say which is maybe why you shouldn't put stuff like this in throw-away early marketing material.

 

[Deleted member 35631]

Oh god, people get offended by EVERYTHING! and I mean every little, minuscule, senseless things!

 

[astro]

Stop evading questions and criticism, its dishonest. Stop trying to throw burdens at others, I fully believe you are capability of responding but want to throw it at everyone else.

Click to shrink...

If you can't see how I answered your thoughtless question perfectly, there is no hope for you.

 

[OutofMana]

Oof, that shit is in bad taste. Add the prior tweets from that dude that they fired and it's kind of hard not to question their intention. Idk, man.

 

[AmbientRuin]

Oh god, people get offended by EVERYTHING! and I mean every little, minuscule, senseless things!

Click to shrink...

Yeah you got folks in here losing their minds because someone said White people live in privilege

 

[Gestault]

Well, I think we can at least assume there is going to be sexual content/sexual implants advertised in ads now, as opposed to this ad just being about juice or something and the person in it depicted as is for no apparent contextual reasons.

I had no idea about the Mr Studd or Midnight Lady sexual implants being Cyberpunk canon (until I was told a few posts ago).

Click to shrink...

The ad text highlights the drink having a combination of fifteen different flavors in one. It's a joke about mixing different things into one. And it illustrates that with a feminine form with a prominent penis.

 

[Deleted member 41638]

I must be clueless here... and I have skimmed through the soon 20 pages, but what is the issue with a person with, what it looks like, a penis here? As in the person being trans?

Sorry if I offend anyone, I want to understand. Does it have to do with CDPR:s history?

Click to shrink...

CDPR has put out three transphobic tweets and followed them up with half-hearted apologies.

 

[Deep Friar]

Do we have more context for the photo besides it being an ad in a dystopian cyberpunk future? The reaction here seems way overblown. I am part of the LGBT community and I am not ready to jump to any conclusions regarding the photo. This is a potentially hundred-hour+ long game and we're going to sit and nitpick one photo in a game with no idea how it fits into the entire world? At this point, it seems people are ready to throw pitchforks at CDPR. If you don't want to buy the game because of their previous behavior as a company, then sure, that is totally valid. This seems to be grasping for anything to hate them for though.

Click to shrink...

See, I think I'd agree. It seems as though there are some trans people who don't have any issues with this. I think where I personally stop is when I look at their past history. I'll see if any context is given, but this certainly doesn't look good for them.

As a straight person, the black and white in this scenario vanishes when people like you and others, particularly other trans people, have no issue with it. At that point the discussion may change into a discussion within your own personal community instead of people like me and others defending you on presumption of offense. I, and many others, have no frame of reference.

 

[Mesoian]

Is there any context behind the image?

Click to shrink...

Not yet. You just have to go with their history and wonder if they're going to do anything interesting and meaningful with it, or if it's just a one off joke .

 

[Arkanim94]

Oh god, people get offended by EVERYTHING! and I mean every little, minuscule, senseless things!

Click to shrink...

Is this a ironic thing or are you being serious?

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Oh god, people get offended by EVERYTHING! and I mean every little, minuscule, senseless things!

Click to shrink...

Yep, especially straight white dudes freaking the fuck out at the concept that maybe their ill-informed garbage opinion isn't the one and only truth in the universe. Seems like that concept is hitting them incredibly hard right now with many of them turning into literal neo-nazis as a result. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic and predictable.

 

[Deleted member 925]

Oh god, people get offended by EVERYTHING! and I mean every little, minuscule, senseless things!

Click to shrink...

So a marginalized groups of people aren't allowed to get upset about a company who has a history of this nonsense when it comes up again?

Please, your privilege is showing.

 

[uzipukki]

Oh god, people get offended by EVERYTHING! and I mean every little, minuscule, senseless things!

Click to shrink...

Well, you for one, are offended it seems.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Really? Bills are passed based of these statements? People die or get judged by "these" statements?

Click to shrink...

Your avatar is literally of a game that starts with one of multiple political assassinations during the direct aftermath of a war. And ends with the start of a new war between two countries which is partly caused because of the gap in power caused by those political assassinations. Use that thing inside your skull, a bill doesn't have to be passed for a work of fiction to make a statement.

Jesus, let's get outraged that a dystopian future is showing messed up ads. Let's bitcc and moan on social media until no company dares do anything outside of anyones comfort-zone. Sounds like a fun gaming future! /S

This place is a joke. Personally love the fucked up world they have shown so far. Game is still day zero as far as I'm concerned.

Click to shrink...

I applaud the effort to give your alt an avatar. 😁

 

[Kinsei]

Is this offensive because the bulge is clearly visible in a very sexual fashion, thus treating this trans person as a sexual object and treating their identity as a fetish? Am I on the right path? is this the case?

Click to shrink...

That's part of it, yes. Now of course there's the chance that the game addresses this, but given CDPR's past issues when it comes to trans issues a lot of us aren't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[accx]

Oh god, people get offended by EVERYTHING! and I mean every little, minuscule, senseless things!

Click to shrink...

Yea the SWMs sure are getting their boxer shorts in a bunch by the thought of treating trans people with a modicum of respect.

 

[Astral Lovelace]

This thread is helping me learn that I understand very little about trans issues or perspectives. I recognize that this poster is not being received well. Is there a post in this thread that explains why? Might be a good threadmark.

Is this offensive because the bulge is clearly visible in a very sexual fashion, thus treating this trans person as a sexual object and treating their identity as a fetish? Am I on the right path? I've heard people suggest that the text on the poster, and/or something related to body modifications in the cyberpunk world has something to do with the offensiveness - is this the case?

Sorry if these answers should be pretty obvious. Guess I'm recognizing that I'm pretty ignorant to what exactly is going on here, and I would like to eliminate that ignorance.

And if this question has already been answered, directling me towards it would be helpful. Maybe nice to threadmark idk

Click to shrink...

I suppose this is where I'm at. My thought is that it's showing that trans models are as "accepted" as cis models, but I suppose I need to ask the question: if the rest of the game is positive towards trans issues and identities, does this create a context where the message is not of fetishization, but of normalization? I suppose I'm asking, *can* this poster be a part of a larger component of normalization, but the context of CDPR's history paints it as fetishization? Is it currently "either fetishization, OR normalization, but CDPR'S record makes us feel fetishization is more likely?"

 

[Doof]

y'all stupid motherfuckers keep feeding yourselves into the woodchipper, now
it sustains me

If you really want to go back to the source material, why don't we take a look at how transitioning is treated in it :



The source material is not where you want to be looking for defenses of this kind of representation.

Click to shrink...

i have no words

 

[Stryder]

Is there any context behind the image?

Click to shrink...

This.

Had CDpr said anything about what this entails and why? The outrage so far is conjecture until we know more.

 

[Tayaya]

At the risk of taking a hit from the banhammer, can I ask a question about why this ad would be a problem? There is a whole subculture surrounding "chicks with dicks" that's been around for far longer than the current state of affairs regarding what medical sciene has enabled those who truly want or need to change their gender are able to accomplish. Events like Drag Queen Bingo nights are popular all over the US, Thailand has a whole sex trade based on attractive women who happen to be hung, and yes it's clearly a fetish but one that's enjoyed by people of all genders that I know of. Conversely, it offends people of all genders/orientations too - not everyone is into everything.

I saw the topic and clicked preparing to be offended, but I found the ad chuckle-worthy and in good taste. It doesn't mean I am downplaying the struggle that LBGT people face at all. I can respect their plight and still find humor in an ad like this. Not everything warrants a crusade. At this point it feels like everyone is combing over Cyberpunk 2077 to try and scrub it and shape it into their idea of what's "right." But it's a piece of art - we don't get to assume creative control over it, and something as simple as a poster in the background really isn't an attack on anyone's beliefs in this case. Mix it up, as the poster says! Have some fun!

 

[Kyuuji]

Oh god, people get offended by EVERYTHING! and I mean every little, minuscule, senseless things!

Click to shrink...

Like being distraught at the idea of people discussing something on an enthusiast gaming forum.

 

[uzipukki]

This.

Had CDpr said anything about what this entails and why? The outrage so far is conjecture until we know more.

Click to shrink...

With their track record regarding trans people, I'm not holding my breath tbh.

 

[aerozombie]

This is a thread about a throwaway "oh look a chick with a dick" advert in Cyberpunk 2077, with the words "Mix It Up!" and "Chromanticore".

In what way is that question relevant? There is no real comparison for a Cyberpunk world, so when all you're relying on is "the world is shitty" but then you're selective over what parts are actually shitty – because there's certainly not everything that's shitty IRL in the game – then it's perfectly fine to question where that line is drawn.

Click to shrink...

Yes there is, because it is world building. In Nazi Germany you would expect those posters randomly around a city, in a Cyberpunk you would expect extremes of fetishization shown in advertisements. This should be offensive and it makes sense why in the context of a cyberpunk world and the themes you would expect from the genre.

 

[Infcabbage]

Is there any context behind the image?

Click to shrink...

There is no need for context. Whats in the image is in the image, It being present at all is what's harmful.

 

[Deleted member 888]

The ad text highlights the drink having a combination of fifteen different flavors in one. It's a joke about mixing different things into one. And it illustrates that with a feminine form with a prominent penis.

Click to shrink...

Not sure if that would be a joke in this world though, or simply reality that people are modifying their bodies with implants/stimulants and engaging in open sexuality.

As in joke with an intent to be derogatory, as opposed to trying to celebrate how accepted sexuality is in the mainstream in some sort of fun way.

 

[Kyuuji]

Yes there is, because it is world building. In Nazi Germany you would expect those posters randomly around a city, in a Cyberpunk you would expect extremes of fetishization shown in advertisements. This should be offensive and it makes sense why in the context of a cyberpunk world and the themes you would expect from the genre.

Click to shrink...

So where do you draw the line in how offensive this can be and to whom, and why do you draw it there?

 

[Uthred]

It's very hard to believe anyone at this point in the thread who is "just asking how its offence" is asking in good faith. Its been explained so many times at this point.

The source material is not where you want to be looking for defenses of this kind of representation.

Click to shrink...

Cyber psychosis was always sort of creepy and poorly written, but a) people always leave out the fact that the core book has rules for how to treat and avoid it entirely, in short if you get counselling after major cybernetic augmentation you adjust just fine and b) do you have a source for that quote because while sadly the Cyberpunk 2020 PDF isnt searchable there's nothing showing up on a quick scan of the cybernetics and body modification section. I actually dont recall the core book having anything about transitioning in it.

 

[Stryder]

With their track record regarding trans people, I'm not holding my breath tbh.

Click to shrink...

This sort of response is fair and understandable for exactly what you said, but we should still look for any comments made by CDpr in reference to this image. Don't think it would be the right call to stay silent. Wonder if they'll pull a hideo kojima and say something about "words and deeds".

 

[virtua_44]

That's part of it, yes. Now of course there's the chance that the game addresses this, but given CDPR's past issues when it comes to trans issues a lot of us aren't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Click to shrink...

Ah I see. Do you suppose this poster wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is now, if CDPR hadnt already expressed transphobic views in the past?

 

[TyrantGuardian]

At the risk of taking a hit from the banhammer, can I ask a question about why this ad would be a problem? There is a whole subculture surrounding "chicks with dicks" that's been around for far longer than the current state of affairs regarding what medical sciene has enabled those who truly want or need to change their gender are able to accomplish. Events like Drag Queen Bingo nights are popular all over the US, Thailand has a whole sex trade based on attractive women who happen to be hung, and yes it's clearly a fetish but one that's enjoyed by people of all genders that I know of. Conversely, it offends people of all genders/orientations too - not everyone is into everything.

I saw the topic and clicked preparing to be offended, but I found the ad chuckle-worthy and in good taste. It doesn't mean I am downplaying the struggle that LBGT people face at all. I can respect their plight and still find humor in an ad like this. Not everything warrants a crusade. At this point it feels like everyone is combing over Cyberpunk 2077 to try and scrub it and shape it into their idea of what's "right." But it's a piece of art - we don't get to assume creative control over it, and something as simple as a poster in the background really isn't an attack on anyone's beliefs in this case. Mix it up, as the poster says! Have some fun!

Click to shrink...

Yes folks, have some fun! Meanwhile the general state of society is that trans people have to fear for their lives on the daily but hey at least meanwhile dickchick fetishists are having a good time amirite. Priorities exist. We can celebrate sexual diversity when people aren't being murdered over who they are.

 

[AmbientRuin]

Ah I see. Do you suppose this poster wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is now, if CDPR hadnt already expressed transphobic views in the past?

Click to shrink...

It'd still be an issue as has been pointed out countless times

 

[BringBackSonics]

Is there any context behind the image?

Click to shrink...

No, and that's kind of what I'm waiting for. Are they cross dressing? Are they Trans? I can see why some would be upset with it though, due to some of CDPR problematic stances previously around this .

 

[Kinsei]

Ah I see. Do you suppose this poster wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is now, if CDPR hadnt already expressed transphobic views in the past?

Click to shrink...

There would of course still be the worry that it wouldn't be handled well, but I imagine a lot more of us would be taking the wait and see approach instead fo assuming the worst if it weren't for CDPR's past.

 

[Deleted member 45414]

This sort of response is fair and understandable for exactly what you said, but we should still look for any comments made by CDpr in reference to this image. Don't think it would be the right call to stay silent. Wonder if they'll pull a hideo kojima and say something about "words and deeds".

Click to shrink...

This is what they said last time they got caught mocking trans people:



Complete trash non-statement from them.

 

[btags]

If you really want to go back to the source material, why don't we take a look at how transitioning is treated in it :



The source material is not where you want to be looking for defenses of this kind of representation.

Click to shrink...

Having never played the tabletop game or even hearing about it before this video game, it seems like it already has some problematic themes that should be discussed when talking about this game and how it is adapted from the source material. I mean, wow, that seems pretty blatantly transphobic.

 

[teague]

[...] There is a whole subculture surrounding "chicks with dicks" that's been around for far longer than the current state of affairs regarding what medical sciene has enabled those who truly want or need to change their gender are able to accomplish. Events like Drag Queen Bingo nights are popular all over the US, Thailand has a whole sex trade based on attractive women who happen to be hung, and yes it's clearly a fetish but one that's enjoyed by people of all genders that I know of. Conversely, it offends people of all genders/orientations too - not everyone is into everything.

Click to shrink...

Referencing a history of problematic fetishization isn't a good way to defend something people are accusing something of being a problematic fetishization (the whole history of this "fetish" is problematic and othering). "Fetishization" here doesn't just mean "something that turns people on," it's about the reduction of an already-marginalized group to the status of (sex) object. People's identities do not exist just to be someone else's (typically straight cis white men's) fetishes.

(I edited this to be less mean)

 

[labx]

A lot of white straight dudes here trying too hard to justify the purchase of a game that is clearly out of touch with minorities. What a way to resolve their cognitive dissonance. "It's there only if you want to be there" "There is nothing wrong" "Its interpretation".

Guys the game is out of touch, it may be a cool game to play, an immersive world, an so on... but it has a lot of cultural and social issues addressed in the worst posible way.