-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
This fetishized in-game ad from Cyberpunk 2077 raises some questions about how the game may depict LGBT (NSFW) [See Staff Post Before Posting]
- Thread starter Deleted member 3093
- Start date
- Status
I don't really see the issue here.
In a dystopian cyberpunk world where body modification has become the norm and sex basically has become a commodity, the fetishization of LGTBQ+ people and having tasteless sex ads targeting those fetishes is an inevitability. If you think that's farfetched, then you sure as hell don't want to look at all the available categories on PornHub. For all intents and purposes, the poster is transphobic, and likely intentionally so. It shamelessly caters to people with a trans fetish because in a cyberpunk future that's bound to be catered to. Within the rules and norms of this world (as far as we know it) that makes sense, even if with real world standards it would be considered reprehensible. It honestly would make less sense for there not to be something like this poster.
If there's one thing that struck me odd in speculative (cyberpunk) fiction, it is that the red light districts seem to cater largely to hetero men by having all the sex workers be straight females, even though that you'd think in a more sexually liberated future where society's major sexual tastes have diversified, you'd see more male sex workers too, and everything inbetween and beyond.
Like shit, did nobody see the Cyberpunk 2077 sex ad with the lady with three mouths?
In a dystopian cyberpunk world where body modification has become the norm and sex basically has become a commodity, the fetishization of LGTBQ+ people and having tasteless sex ads targeting those fetishes is an inevitability. If you think that's farfetched, then you sure as hell don't want to look at all the available categories on PornHub. For all intents and purposes, the poster is transphobic, and likely intentionally so. It shamelessly caters to people with a trans fetish because in a cyberpunk future that's bound to be catered to. Within the rules and norms of this world (as far as we know it) that makes sense, even if with real world standards it would be considered reprehensible. It honestly would make less sense for there not to be something like this poster.
If there's one thing that struck me odd in speculative (cyberpunk) fiction, it is that the red light districts seem to cater largely to hetero men by having all the sex workers be straight females, even though that you'd think in a more sexually liberated future where society's major sexual tastes have diversified, you'd see more male sex workers too, and everything inbetween and beyond.
Like shit, did nobody see the Cyberpunk 2077 sex ad with the lady with three mouths?
I think LGBT people as a whole are just like everyone who isn't LBGT. That is, there is a lot of variance in what people find offensive. More than anything, I want Cyberpunk to be a good game. If it's not a good game then I am not going to play it. This one image gives me nothing to go on in the game, other than it is a game that definitely has a mature audience targeted. I also am of the mind that the people who wrote, produced, directed, etc...this game may not share the same views as their completely incompetent social media team. You can also have the most pro-LGBT cast/crew/developer/whatever and still have a shitty product. For instance, I watched the first episode of Netflix's new version of Tales From The City last night after seeing it had my favorite actor and was essentially created by and with almost an entirely LGBT everything. Thing is, the writing was absolute garbage and I'll now never know what happens in episode 2 because episode 1 was so bad.
You still haven't answered mine, that's why I was clarifying.
It's not a loaded question. You literally said transphobic trash made sense in that setting thus it was fine. So I'm asking what else offensive you would allow in that setting.
Well to answer my own question, the quote
Seems to have been pulled from this article here https://medium.com/@ranibaker/is-every-woman-here-a-sex-change-trans-in-cyberpunk-rpg-362cfbb4451f It's actually not talking about Cyberpunk 2020 "proper" (which as far as I can gather has no rules for transitioning, though you could probably adapt the bodysculpting rules) its talking about a supplement called "When Gravity Fails: Adventuring in the world of George Alec Effingers Novels" which is a sourcebook for a novel/series of the same name (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/132694.When_Gravity_Fails) , a novel/series which deals heavily with transgender issues. it's entirely and explicitly divorced from the Cybperunk 2020 universe and game.
As I alluded to in my previous post, cyber psychosis was always on the borderline of bullshit ableism, the core concept of needing counselling to adjust to major artificial limb replacement seems sound but it was very poorly presented in the corebook and the end result of cyber-psychosis had all the usual tact you'd expect from a nineties pen and paper game dealing with mental illness. But a 1992 sourcebook which just adapted the Interlock ruleset to a different IP isnt meaningfully "what the source material says". Though if Cyberpunk 2020 had actual rules for transitioning I imagine they probably would have just cut and pasted ""Sex change has a 1D6 Humanity Cost. Counseling cancels the humanity cost" so this is borderline pedantry.
Nah Im sure the company with sex trading cards, no minorities in their fictional games and a history of shitty social media posts is gonna handle this setting well.
Nah, you didn't, and it's apparent why. Your position of "it's a fucking shit future so everything that's shit goes" is dumb, and breaks down immediately when you're prompted to clarify exactly what offensive trash you see as being justifiable in such a setting.
Did you just "edit" your initial reply so you could have your reply at the top of the page?
Polygon asked the lead art designer about the ad.
So as suspected, there's intended commentary behind the depiction.
So as suspected, there's intended commentary behind the depiction.
20 years ago maybe. did you play Mankind Divided? "Augment lives matters!" and the whole shit? how was this different to CP2020?
as i said, Cyberpunk as a genre is full of stereotypes and cliches, some people want a sanitized version of Cyberpunk with an equal rights for everyone stance and that won´t happen, especially not when Cyberpunk 2020 is the source material.
CP2077 will definitely cause a shitstorm of epic proportions, that is sure because society changed in the last 10 years, this game presents a future world which is stereotypic as it gets and will rub many people in the wrong way.
e
exactly. there's no context. people have made up their mind regarding cdpr and cyberpunk already though.
exactly. there's no context. people have made up their mind regarding cdpr and cyberpunk already though.
I'm travelling on the train but well done for avoiding the post for the fourth time.
I think the litmus test will be whether they lock character customization options to one gender.
As for the ad, current day advertising is also a cesspool of blatant exploitation and sexualization. And corporations are not ethical or trustworthy entities in cyberpunk fiction.
The problem is that I'm not sure if Cyberpunk 2077 is cohesive when it comes to its theming and its world building, and I suspect the ad is a one off joke rather than world building and an example of corporate culture.
As for the ad, current day advertising is also a cesspool of blatant exploitation and sexualization. And corporations are not ethical or trustworthy entities in cyberpunk fiction.
The problem is that I'm not sure if Cyberpunk 2077 is cohesive when it comes to its theming and its world building, and I suspect the ad is a one off joke rather than world building and an example of corporate culture.
I don't trust CDPR to have literally anyone in the game be a positive representation of diversity so....it would be one thing if this was just the game world being shitty but actual individuals being treated with respect in some capacity by other individuals (the MC mainly). Based on the studio's issues and the segments with racial minorities in the previews, the game is gonna be a shitshow.
I mean, we can go back and forth on this all day it seems. My answer is pretty straight forward. But you mostly seem very intend on just trying to get me to say I want x offensive thing to be in the game. Which is not really a "discussion" I intend to participate in
It's the one you started by saying this all made sense because it's set in a "fucking shit future" though.
I'm glad someone asked them about it. It will be curious to see how all of this is handled in game. As others have said, I hope they have a variety of options as far as character customization goes.
Pretty long answer, will take a while to parse. Seems to mix hypersexualization with glamourizing concepts of beauty to sell products.
I completely agree with you.
But I think people's concern lies in that given CDPRs track record here they will cross line from what you described to straight white male wank fantasy.... "Oh look a woman with 6 tits and is hung like a horse... Niiiiicccee" Vs exploring what journey that woman had and exploring who they are etc.
Like the red light district example you give... Will cp2077 have a red light district? Will it cater for all or really just straight white male version of "catering for all"
You "don't see the issue" with this particular sexualization coming from this particular company and their poor handling of trans issues before? That sounds ignorant to just give them the benefit of the doubt and say it makes sense.
No. It could make sense, but CDPR haven't shown that we can assume they've handled this representation well for it to be acceptable. You don't just put out sexualized minorities after nothing but poor interactions with those communities.
You've latched way too hard onto why it could make sense, to the point you're ignorant of all the reasons this content may be as abhorrent as CDPR's mishandling of trans issues always tends to be.
Absolutely, I don't think I was able to respond before due to the thread being locked.
Any response from CDPR isn't going to be the correct one, is that I'm saying.
They will either, again, have a non-apology/no apology, or provide context to the poster that probably makes the situation worse.
I think this is important as well:
"In [the year] 2077, especially with how much body modifications are available, I think people just mix and match however they want, however they feel," Redesiuk said. "And even society is more open to different kinds of relationships."
This is not to say that the player should see this kind of advertising as good. Redesiuk said that it was designed to feel jarring and overly aggressive, like all the other ads in the game, but not because of the femme-presenting trans model.
Well, I'm glad a PR person stepped up and gave the laziest, most hypocritical response. Nothing like having to go out of their way to explain the intentions instead of making it non-controversial in the first place.
"I hate this thing so let's do it some more" - what?
I get that it can make sense, of course, but with the relationship they have with the community, if they're making a nuanced point do some outreach and dives into it to reassure that which you've directly mocked and insulted before.
I don't think "but now we mean to do it" is really the best tact, considering the actual advert in discussion.
Over you know, something like promoting a fleshed out and nuanced trans or non binary character to explore those themes.
Last edited:
In adapting a material, it is definitely the responsibility of the adapter to understand the social relevancy of controversial topics from said source material.
You can have a 'gritty and realistic' dystopian setting without marginalizing vulnerable present day minority groups. There's a ton of cyberpunk fiction that does just that.
Claiming the sourcebook is just as bad doesn't excuse the end product
Okay so this "sexually liberated" future caters exclusively to straight men. It's pretty obvious that that the game, clearly marketed towards straight males is done through a heteronormative lens, and with the context of the company being transphobic assholes its not hard to assume that this poster is not there to be positive representation or representative of a "woke" future.
I get where you are coming from but nothing seen of this game so far is as sophisticated as the arguments defending it would suggest.
There is very little deeper meaning here, it's a dude bro game for dude bros
Sounds like it's purposeful fetishism which they will go further into later.
We'll see.
Part of me is expecting a "words and deeds" situation here...but we can't know until the final game is out.
I mean, it makes sense, right? It's not like CoD devs endorse war or anything just because they're portraying it.
Another quote from the article:
If it is how she says it is in this interview, then I think that's fine and there isn't much of an issue with this particular ad. That doesn't mean the concern is unwarranted, though, of course.
A PR person??
Its the lead designer who literally explained what it's supposed to represent
Like fucking hell
Creating a dystopia means filling it with content that would be created in a dystopia. It does not mean you support said dystopic ideals.
This is base level artistic analysis here.
Yeah, hopefully it lives up to their words. I'm naturally quite skeptical due to their past though.
In order to show it, it needs to exist in the world.
I mean, that's the thing. "War is bad but war is COOL" is still sort of an endorsement right?
It's why those games tonally don't work.
I feel like this image * divorced from this studio's repeated social fuck-ups * wouldn't be innantely bad. But given their record, this probably fits their caricature view of all, real trans-people.
This game is looking more and more like an expensive version of that pixel "cyberpunk" game from a few years ago, that stated "feminism won" as a dystopian problem.
(If someone disagrees and thinks it's a problematic image in any context, I'd love a discussion.)
Can you elaborate? I was tempted to grab RSC. Is it better with social stuff or also problematic? If so, what does it do?
This game is looking more and more like an expensive version of that pixel "cyberpunk" game from a few years ago, that stated "feminism won" as a dystopian problem.
(If someone disagrees and thinks it's a problematic image in any context, I'd love a discussion.)
Can you elaborate? I was tempted to grab RSC. Is it better with social stuff or also problematic? If so, what does it do?
The lead art designer is not a "PR person" they are the obvious person to art about art direction in the game because thats their job.
Yes, depiction isn't endorsement, depending on how they handle things.
I think it's getting to a point where they need to say something because until they do it's really hard not to assume the worst. Its basic pr at this point to just address it, otherwise every aspect of this game is going to be viewed with the worst assumption.
If the designer has to go out of her way to say what her work is supposed to represent... I mean, come the fuck on. Death of the author. Justifying something as "it is supposed to be shocking" doesn't excuse it from being criticized.
sadly in a dystopia settings u can expected anything thats wrong in our world and multiplie by 10.
I get that it can make sense, of course, but with the relationship they have with the community, if they're making a nuanced point do some outreach and dives into it to reassure that which you've directly mocked and insulted before.
I don't think "but now we mean to do it" is really the best tact, considering the actual advert in discussion.
Over you know, something like promoting a fleshed out and nuanced trans or non binary character to explore those themes.
- Status