I'd love to hear your brilliant analysis on incels then, Freud.
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This fucking incel shit has got to stop.
- Thread starter Tahnit
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I'd love to hear your brilliant analysis on incels then, Freud.
Have you paid ANY attention to this thread at all? Or to the bright red text in the OP?
Saying that incels "just need to get laid" is a complete falsehood and this has been explained over and over and over across this thread and multiple previous threads. Peddling these ignorant myths is harmful at this point, and when you come into this thread doing just that in a drive-by, it's not a good look.
You can also start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel
Thanks. I'm parked here. No drive-bys. Was reading up on it. I was actually looking into sexual tensions and frustrations caused by celibacy, which can cause depression, stress, frustration, etc https://www.health24.com/Medical/Depression/News/Celibacy-can-cause-depression-20120721
So I was linking it to one of their main issues. Maybe a little more throwaway a comment in appearance than my intent, but I genuinely believe that the lack of sexual activity CAN be a root cause to their problems.
Plenty of people don't get to have sex and don't turn into misogynistic nihilists.
Yes I agree that misogyny is even a deeper mental barrier that needs to break. Celibacy is just a result of the emotional attitude towards women. Getting people out of that mentality will probably be incredibly difficult regardless...I imagine it's kind of an endless frustrating mental circle until incels realize it and break from it themselves.
and I never defined a line in the sand with that. I said it CAN be a problem. Capped it specifically to delineate that so there wasn't any confusion.
and I never defined a line in the sand with that. I said it CAN be a problem. Capped it specifically to delineate that so there wasn't any confusion.
Indeed.
Besides, living alone does have some advantages. It's easier to save up money, for one thing.
idk... the definition from wiki is one thing, but the one from this thread seems like a dude reading too many anime porn. Slim chance they will take arms and kill ppls if he/she is not a psycho in the first place.
that incel.me stuff is sad, but I dont wish to give them more exposure, because it would definitely influence "borderline' people and gives them the platform to interact should they find that site.
that incel.me stuff is sad, but I dont wish to give them more exposure, because it would definitely influence "borderline' people and gives them the platform to interact should they find that site.
Yup. Not getting laid is a symptom of their behaviour, not a cause.
The idea that not having sex makes you less of a person or indicates someone as being fundamentally broken is a mistake.
These troglodytes' behavior is predicated on them already being broken souls prior to their celibate status. While theyre certainly not exclusive from eachother, one is hardly the sole cause of the other.
These troglodytes' behavior is predicated on them already being broken souls prior to their celibate status. While theyre certainly not exclusive from eachother, one is hardly the sole cause of the other.
Celibacy, involuntary or otherwise, does not cause misogyny in the same way that Ambien does not cause racism as a side effect.
These people are troubled and their lack of sex has nothing to do with it.
It takes an intense kind of self-hatred to be an incel. To think that you are inherently inferior than other people, purely on the basis that you aren't having as much sex as you want? Like that's just so fundamentally wrong and unhealthy.
As a female, the incel "movement" scares the shit out of me. I have already encountered 2 incels on online dating sites and they are extremely mentally disturbed, they message you unprompted with a huge paragraph of homophobic/sexist nonsense and claim to not be homophobic/sexist and they throw in religion too but claim to not be religious. It is scary how many dudes follow this rhetoric. It keeps looking like we are starting to head towards the same society as in the handmaids tale.
Not that you want, but based on some imaginary number you think society is saying you should have.
They literally don't know how much sex they want.
Believe it or not, you can live without getting laid.
It's not ideal, I'm sure, and it can be frustrating to go a long time without —— but you will live.
Some of the junk incels talk about is straight-up harassment at BEST, and far uglier words at worst.
They suffer a deranged thinking that caught up in unrealistic expectations/roles of women, self deprecation AND self entitlement (at the same time), and general negative attitudes and frustrations to the current social conditions they're in.
This. People who suggest they just get sex should ask themselves: why are incels so violently against sex work and sex workers? If it were just about sex at any cost then it'd be easy to "cure" them but they despise sex work and sex workers. They cast them as "used up whores" with zero value in comparison to pure untouched virgins. Every woman who has had sex before is a pariah. An experienced woman would get rebuffed by an incel because they mark it as a lost chance to "claim" that woman as property. Their thinking is mired in so much shit and the true desire for sex is at the very bottom of that pile.
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We won't let it happen. We keep showing men that our lives are our own, our rights are our own and our bodies are our own. We just have to keep fighting, just like we did when Ireland was voting on repealing the abortion amendment.
As long as we don't give up and as long as we have each other's backs, you'll never have to fear this stupid nonsense that women shouldn't be allowed to pick who they have sex with and when.
I want to believe this so badly but it seems like the more we fight to be treated as human the more rights get removed or infringed upon. I am glad I don't experience the worst of it but I still experience it and it is fueling a fire in my soul that should never have existed. But no matter what, I will never be complacent.
It shouldn't just be your job though so don't feel discouraged. We men, if we claim to have empathy and desire equality, have a responsibility to join you in this fight and speak up for you when/where you may be unable. Whether in capitol hill or at the dinner table and everywhere in between. We have a responsibility to listen and learn from your experiences without becoming near as sour as the men in this topic. Trust that I don't plan to rest easy while women have to deal with the horror other men create. I don't plan to accept a world that is comfortable only for me.
To be honest I've never felt like their behavior was caused by a lack of sex, but rather the lack of sex was expressly do to their behavior.
Exactly. They're alone because they're twisted, evil fuckers with no redeeming personality traits. Who wants to hang around someone like that? You don't start to fantasize about killing, raping, and enslaving people just because you have a hard time in your life if you're a decent person to start with.
This was really nice to read actually. Reassuring or at least gives a glimmer of hope.
I'm not a MGOTOW. I'm just a guy who wants to find a gf so he can have a female friend who wants to be around him just as I'd want to be around them. Who has actual chemistry, likes doing stuff together, likes having fun together, and is basicly a supportive partner. I read threads like this and it's just tons of people who don't understand how frustrating it is for people like me and then don't understand how some people get mad about it. No, I don't think I'm owned another person. But I am incredibly frustrated that I can't find someone and have experiences that others at this point take for granted. I don't want to be a 30 year old who dosent know how to have a gf or have sex. I like women. I know I'm a good person. I have female friends who think I'm a good person. But for years I go out and women aren't intersted in me or they think I'm gay. I try tinder and the like it's pointless. I only attract women that I personally don't find attractive which only makes me feel worse about myself. Whatever I try to brush that off and talk to women I know in real life. It ends the same "your cool, but I'm not intersted". I don't think less about these girls, but it makes me hestitant to waste any more energy on the next girl and the next when it all seemingly ends the same.
You other posters say you don't have to live with sex or partners. Bullshit. Sex is fun and feels good and I would love to please someone. Going almost a decade without it is maddening. And still feeling awkward about it because you haven't had any opportunities is scary and confidence breaking.
And here comes the oh eventually you'll find someone.
Haven't heard that before....
Oh just pay for sexs if your not an incel...
What kind of bullshit is that? Yes I'm sure I'll feel good about myself if I have to resort to paying for sex.
I feel most of the people who comment on this I feel stuff have never been there. If I had positive sexual experiences before my 20s I for sure would have a better outlook on life. I didn't and I'm trying to play catchup to something that is impossible to catch and recapture.
I fear for whatever woman I find because she will have to deal with a man who is millions of steps behind her and I doubt that sounds attractive to a woman.
I dont agree with the incel shit and there's clearly more beyond getting laid to them. But lack of sex and relationships is an incredibly frustrating thing.
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Lower your standards or work on yourself to meet the needs of women with higher standards. That's unfortunately the way it works. It gets better in your 30s when your sex drive chills out a little and people are more upfront about what they want, though.
Well that's better and more realistic advice then
"Eventually"
Too bad it also includes "you've wasted your 20s and your sex drive. Wait until people are desperate".
"Eventually"
Too bad it also includes "you've wasted your 20s and your sex drive. Wait until people are desperate".
Your wave of negativity precedes you so much that you are ruining your own chances. You say there are women that have been interested in you and you've rejected them. You're not self reflecting on ways you can improve both your outlook and approach and thus your stuck in a circle of your own making.
I didn't even have a girlfriend until I was about 26. When you're young you think that 30 is old. When you're 40, the idea that anyone past their 20s has wasted their youth, their sex drive and are now desperate is ridiculous. My 30s were so much more interesting romantically, more adventurous, less insecure. If that's your mentality it's going to get harder to meet people with like-minded interests the more bitter you become, as that kind of negative feeling and resentment isn't attractive. As time passes you are also more likely to meet people who have had long-term relationships before, know what they are looking for and are pretty good at spotting that stuff. I feel much more comfortable in my own skin at 39 than I ever did in my 20s, nor do I think the time I spent alone then was wasted. With age comes perspective, including being able to spot who might be up for the next half-century of fun and happiness, who is looking for a hook-up (nothing wrong with that btw) and who is just bitter about what happened in the last few years.
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Shit I can't get laid, and the only consideration I've taken towards where to put a bullet is through my own head. When the opposite sex rejects you all the time, it's seriously time to look in the mirror. Unfortunately that only breeds more self-loathing, which further goes to destroy confidence and esteem which is needed to break the cycle.
I think for some people, relationships are a hopeless endeavor.
I think for some people, relationships are a hopeless endeavor.
It's not a waste. Look outside what most people tell you is normal. They just heard it from someone else, too.
We're all still floundering, fucking, and killing each other. We're better at hiding it, but we're not even close to as advanced as we think we are. To get there, we need to look for wider perspective and maybe listen to the people that we usually ignore for fear of damaging our deep-rooted worldviews. The important thing, I believe, is to collectively throw the bird in the face of anyone who rejects another person's autonomy and expects society to affirm them for it. Rise above the bullshit the world throws at us and tell our animal instincts and self-pity to go fuck themselves, you know? Be aware that artificial feelings of entitlement aren't as natural as they feel, and can be overcome.
I don't know. I know it seems like it's easier said than done. Just remember that no one REALLY knows what they're doing, or what the right thing to do is for everybody else. We're just carbon atoms reacting to billions of years of stimuli, and everyone should get a fair shot at figuring it out without someone else making the decisions for them.
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Maybe work on yourself. Find out why it doesn't work out.
Where are you from?
To be honest, you sound a bit drowning in self-pity and desperate. Never a good combination. If i had to guess it would probably be your own behavior preventing you from getting into a relationship. Maybe you talk about yourself too much, maybe you sound too eager, too desperate, i don't know. But i've seen many ugly men date perfectly great women so it's probably not your looks.
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This is excactly why there are PUA and the like.
I'm only negative about this because my negativity is constantly reinforced. Why have and how can you have a positive outlook when you have no reason too?
And even then no I'm not negative. I live my life as well as possible and am a likeable person. I have friends and a decent life. I treat people the way I want to be treated which to me means I talk to women like I would like them to talk to me. Like a human being. But that dosent work. I've see. My male friends have better luck with women by treating them like sex objects. What is thier to reflect on? How does this not confuse people and not lead some me to PUA and incel crap?
in the dating thread I was told to not lower my standards. Here I was. Well, which one is it?
I've never rejected anyone and I've never had any chances. Unless rejection means not following up with tinder women your not keen on.
But I've been rejected constantly. Yes it's not the end of the world, but when you reflect what are you even supposed to redect on? Why the woman rejected you? But that could be many reasons including simply not being good looking.
And trust me I do. I was in love with a girl and she pilotly rejected me and in the end it was a good call and I understand why. Or rather at least have my understanding. We just weren't compatiable and on the same level mentally and so on. But what am supposed to wonder? When the hell will I find someone on my level?
Eventually...
Wanna have sex? Be a nice and dependable person.
Tall order for these assholes I guess.
EDIT: ok this came out completely wrong, what I meant to say is that these incels create the problems they experience themselves. A change in behaviour and their attitude towards women is part of the solution for them.
Tall order for these assholes I guess.
EDIT: ok this came out completely wrong, what I meant to say is that these incels create the problems they experience themselves. A change in behaviour and their attitude towards women is part of the solution for them.
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I mean....
on the deepest most basic level, he's actually right lol
if these guys had just learned how to ""get laid"", they would have likely developed the social skills and growth that usually comes along with it and they wouldn't be where they are right now
instead they refused to change, got depressed, stumbled upon a hivemind community of people just like them, and the recursive cycle of "them not me" just exploded into what we're discussing here today
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeghhhhhhhhhhh..........
we probably shouldn't go there LOL
You don't listen to people, you just want to complain. Your displaying classic nice guyism on top of that.
Your misrepresenting what you were told in the dating topic after you suggested lowering YOUR standards.
What is your level?
I dont treat my wife like shit and never treated any woman I dated like shit and still had dates and I am not a good looking fella. And I think most people here on this forum in relationships are no supermodels and also dont treat woman like shit and still have a relationship.
From just reading your posts it seems you are looking for the "perfect" relationship...
Yeah, it's probably behavior. Not looks.
I don't know him of course and i wish him the best but it could be one of these things:
- talking about yourself all the time
- not listening
- acting desperate
- being pushy
- acting entitled
- drowning in self-pity
- being too picky/ selective yourself
Just based on what i've seen in the past. Again, i do not know this person at all.
I agree. Mostly parents. If they would be more responsible and open minded we'd have better kids growing up in a better world.
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Suffering folks are evil, news at 11.
I don't excuse their acts of madness, but they are yet another byproduct of our broken societies.
As a child then a teen, i was constantly harassed/aggressed upon my visible minority's body, i'm a redhead with a very eastern look (i don't know about my origins).
Some people (9 times out of 10, girls) were really mean about me, even pushing other boys against me. My late teen years were about girls refusing to talk to me because of social pressure, believe it or not (not blaming them if you follow me). You bet, relations were a pain.
I didn't turn misogynist. I didn't even turn into something really but i see where they are coming from. They are monsters to others. They feel like that. Then, they become real monsters.
Everyone is at fault here, especially adults.
I don't excuse their acts of madness, but they are yet another byproduct of our broken societies.
As a child then a teen, i was constantly harassed/aggressed upon my visible minority's body, i'm a redhead with a very eastern look (i don't know about my origins).
Some people (9 times out of 10, girls) were really mean about me, even pushing other boys against me. My late teen years were about girls refusing to talk to me because of social pressure, believe it or not (not blaming them if you follow me). You bet, relations were a pain.
I didn't turn misogynist. I didn't even turn into something really but i see where they are coming from. They are monsters to others. They feel like that. Then, they become real monsters.
Everyone is at fault here, especially adults.
The only real common thread I've seen among not-good looking people who are in fulfilling romantic and/or sexual relationships is they don't feel sorry for themselves. They make fun of themselves. There's not a shred of entitlement or resentment on them. They're OK with how they are, and aren't looking for another human being to solve their problems or give them everything that's missing.
I really think if you let anything fester, it'll come out in a way that you don't want it to.
I really think if you let anything fester, it'll come out in a way that you don't want it to.
There's a thing I've seen older people do is that the longer they have been single the more they are picky for a payoff to make the time alone worth something.
You're right. So I will drop this topic as I really don't have anything too add except complaints. I also really do try to avoid nice guyism because I don't see myself as that at all. So I don't even want to emulate that.
I didn't mean level as something look wise. I meant it like a combination of interests, ideals, moviations, goals, background, aesthetics, tenants and so on.
And I don't think I'm looking for a perfect relationship. Just any relationship. I'm far from perfect and kind of a mess and a complicated person. I still think I'm a solid person who is worthwhile with plenty to offer. And it upsets me that I have no one to offer anything too.
And I'm afraid because I feel like I'm missing out and then then will be filled with regret because of that.
Do we have an estimate in how many of these "incels" there are?
Is this a big group or just a bunch of losers?
Is this a big group or just a bunch of losers?
That must be really hard. But i'm confident that if you continue to be a decent person, keep socializing with other people and take things slow (i know, you feel like you are in a rush) you're bound to find someone. Be honest, be open minded and be interested in the other person. Maybe change your social situation (other places, other friends, new sport, etc) sometime.
Best of luck man. Seriously.
It's easy to call the losers but in reality there is something fundamentally wrong with where they grew up. The family, the parents, the country, etc.
But this is a classic nice guy statement. I was nice, but it didn't work. I'd be interested on what your observation of your friends treating someone like a sex object actually is, because in the right context there's nothing wrong with letting someone know you find them sexy or want to have sex with them. I take it that it worked for them.
I think this is difficult to determine. There are probably a ton of incels that don't talk about it. So it's probably a much bigger group then we think.
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