Yeah it's pretty much universal at this point.
This
Thank you, I didn't know the words because I'm an idiot but this is exactly what I was thinking of/wanted to say.
Dark reference
That "something more deeply entrenched" they are a symptom of, isn't some mysterious, nebulous concept relating to loneliness and depression. That something is misogyny. It is indeed deeply entrenched and society does need its citizens to solve it.
Yeah you're right, the problem incels have isn't that they can't get sex or they're lonely, it's that they're misogynistic radicalized shitheads who want women to only exist as slaves.
You're not defending them, you're just saying you're just saying it's bullshit to tell them the world doesn't owe them sex and a relationship...
When there are members of society that deal with loneliness for decades, like the elderly, I'm not convinced that the laser-focus of the Incel movement on young men and their entitlement to a pretty sex slave can be traced back to it. Incels are obsessed with sex, not companionship. It's not systemic loneliness that is the issue, it's young men having those critical first rejections that most people take as a lesson in life not always going your way twisted and nurtured into mysogeny (if they weren't single due to it already) by a hate group while they are picking up the shreds of their ego. Support groups for loneliness have existed for decades due to it being a very old social problem, they focus on companionship, camraderie, group activities, increasing the chances of meeting someone special. Incels are a result of poisonous misogynists having access through the internet to twisting the minds of the young and the confused, offering a philosophy based in hating women, other men and themselves in that order while alienating everything and everyone else.
I expanded on that in an edit above, I hope you don't mind me pasting it in again below! In short, I think it's isolation (in the sense of being cut off from a healthy support structure rather than lack of relationships ) rather than loneliness, which is also how cults recruit and retain members while reinforcing a fucked-up worldview. If you've got a healthy network of family and friends ready to help put things in perspective, nudge you back on the right track and help you improve yourself when it seems like you can't catch a break you're much less vulnerable. Also a healthy support network is far more likely to call you out if you start turning into a creepy misogynist rather than a group of internet weirdos cheering you on. This is why Incels are quick to cast everyone else as blind to reality, only themselves as having seen the truth (blackpilled?) and use 'normie' as a pejorative, it means they can write their creepy manifestos and discount any advice from actually sane people.
Here's the thing, dude:
I'm not sure, I think the disrespect spiral gets out of control because of a feeling of impotence and inexperience which prostitution could offset
Can't believe over a month and still again we're putting forwards the idea of just getting a bunch of sex workers and letting incels sleep with them, and acting as if it isn't a horrific idea?
Uh. Not proposing it like some kind of forced service or prescription. Which is a horrific idea. Obviously other solutions are way more worth pursuing.
It is not the job of women to fix what is broken in these men with offers of sex. Women should not be put forward as an olive branch to sexist, extremist men. Women are human beings, not tools or medicine for the sick. However your comment does remind me of a chain of stories about men working in the tech industry, who secretly participate in a prostitution network, and spew sexist, hateful stuff online. Sex doesn't cure their hate for women, especially not sex they pay for.
The safety and laws surrounding prostitution are an entirely different topic to be had, and, as I've mentioned earlier in this thread; hypothetically speaking if better safeguarding was in place for sex workers, I'd wager denying clients like those identifying as these incels would fall well within their rights on grounds these people are a known dangerous individual.
Inflicting a group of self-identified misogynists on sex workers is a really bad idea. Just because someone works as a prostitute doesn't mean they should have to take the risk of being alone with members of hate groups that hate them in particular to 'take one for the societal team'. Incel ideology has zero regard for sex work as the answer to 'inceldom', as a) they think they are entitled to/should be supplied with someone who is a virgin and b) any women with an active sex life is of ever-decreasing-value in their fucked-up theories that view sex as an exchange that lessens women to give something to men. It's utterly twisted, lack of an initial sexual encounter isn't what is holding them back, and the 'solutions' they pitch themselves read like something out of a dystopian horror story. Any such plan to deal with 'inceldom' by getting them laid completely ignores the risk to the women involved.
Listening to most incels, I think it's really intimate companionship including sex they want and not just sex. They want somebody that actually likes them and wants to have sex with them.
I suspect the incel line on the prospect of seeing a sex worker, both before and after, would be something like 'why do I have to pay for sex and feel like even more of a loser for giving her money when HyperChad is banging ten Stacies a night for free and they always turn me down'. As you say, it's about more than just sex. It's a warped mix of toxic masculinity, entitlement, misogyny, jealousy and spite, in the context of an online group that believes it's failure to succeed is written in genetics rather than anything that they could actually address or achieve.
