This is the true dark age of Sonic

Cortez

Member
Oct 29, 2017
726
Say what you want about 2005-2008, at least there were still gems amongst the train wreck main games of Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06. I was only 13 years old but finding all the online communities back then was so hype. People were actively making rom hacks, fan games, sprites, comics etc and there so many fan sites and forums. Also Sonic X existed. It felt like the franchise had presence and it always felt like there was something new happening to get excited about.

Now there’s just... nothing. The handheld side series that used to bridge the gap between big releases has long dried up. Main games are far and few apart, still poor quality but now with no budget or anything to make them interesting. The occasional spin off comes and goes with little fan fare. The lead up to Generations and Mania was so hype and I really thought both games were gonna reignite the franchise in a huge way but the momentum just wasn’t there after the initial honey moon period was over.

The next main game isn’t coming til 2021, the future of Mania is up in the air still 2 years later, this is just boomer ramblings but fuck I’d take the drama and chaos of the mid 2000s over this any day
 

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
I agree. The handheld games came out pretty frequently and were mostly solid. Now it's just nothing.
 

DjDeathCool

Member
Oct 28, 2017
643
Bismarck, ND
I prefer nothing for a few years if it means Sonic Team is taking a good long hard look in the mirror after the schlacking that was Sonic Mania's reception compared to Forces... But it's Sonic Team. So, I doubt it.
 

Tracker_TD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
153
Eh.
Going back to the handheld games is something I find more painful than anything now. I have a soft spot for Sonic Rush, but Advance 1 is bland, Advance 2's level design is an absolute disaster, and Advance 3's got both naff physics and naff level design. I think the best Sonic game of the 2000s was Sonic Riders, and that's probably just my love of weird SEGA arcade-style racers showing through. The comics at that time weren't even particularly the best.

Sonic's game career right now isn't much better, but during the past decade we've had arguably his best 3D outing (Generations), arguably his best 2D outing (Mania), a sublime racing spinoff (Transformed; albeit, TSR was utter pants) and the comics we have now are pretty fantastic. And stuff like hacking communities are very much still a thing - it's literally the Sonic Hacking Contest right now, and SAGE (Sonic Amateur Games Expo) was brilliant this year too. Plus stuff like the Mania and TSR Animated shorts, crossovers such as the OK KO special, and even the movie doesn't look like a total hellfire abomination now.

Stuff was probably more 'hype' back then in part because... you and I were younger then. I got hyped for Sonic 06 back then. That's not because it was a better time, it's because I was a dumb kid - nostalgia is one hell of a drug, basically. I'd rather have the break we're in now, at least for the impression that they're taking their time not to screw up, than a load of utter shlock. And maybe that's naive, but the 2000s weren't particularly good quality-wise, no matter how ''''interesting'''' it was.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
21,044
The series has been the laughing stalk of the video game world for the last ~25 years, producing hilariously terrible game after hilariously terrible game. The fact that Sonic Mania exists and was an 8/10ish game is nothing short of a miracle. To me it seems like we should be rooting for it to be buried.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,071
a sunken pirate ship
On the one hand it's a shame on the other hand I still haven't s-ranked everything in Sonic Lost World 3DS so not having more of these games on my plate is a little refreshing
 

Sub Boss

Member
Nov 14, 2017
12,222
I prefer nothing for a few years if it means Sonic Team is taking a good long hard look in the mirror after the schlacking that was Sonic Mania's reception compared to Forces... But it's Sonic Team. So, I doubt it.
Problem is design, they could still make a shitty colorful cartoony Sonic game with a lighthearted story or whatever, i honestly dont know how to solve Sonic Teams problem with Sonic , i guess the best we could hope for is a return to Generations and Colours style from them
 

Supaidaman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
458
While there's nothing official in the game front, there's is some content around that at least gets me to enjoy some stuff about Sonic:
The IDW series
The Hacking Contest 2019

Yes, it's worrisome to see how Sonic Team will handle the series. No, I don't have any faith in them or SEGA. But at least the fans will always be around to actually produce some interesting stuff. And Ian Flynn can keep writing the Sonic comic forever in my view if he wants.
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
11,430
I think 2005-8 was better simply because we didn't have to wait 4 years between mediocre games and there were the handheld entries to keep us busy. Now we have Mania, Mania Plus and Team Sonic Racing and probably something next year.

2013-2017 was much worse.
 

Unknownlight

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,830
Version 2.2 of SRB2 is releasing this Saturday (first major update in 5 years) so that makes up for everything. I plan to write up a thread about it.

But yeah, you're right. Even by Sonic standards, Sonic sucks recently.
 

jacktuar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,696
Yep. Sonic is damaged and sega don’t have confidence in it as anything but a mascot. I’m sure Sonic Team Racing was great but the fact it was smaller scaled than usual tells you all you need to know about the series.
 

Zen Hero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,542
The classic Sonic series is such a good and unique platformer, so I really hope they follow up Mania. That's all I want from Sonic now. Ideally a sequel with entirely new zones, but if they take the remix approach like Mania I would be happy with that too.
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
4,582
Forces probably killed the series worse than 06. Sega isn't investing money into this
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,743
You know it's pretty bad when it feels like a subset of the fandom are now pondering "maybe sonic 06 wasn't so bad after all!"
(It was)
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
Forces probably killed the series worse than 06. Sega isn't investing money into this
Even though it's been proven several times over that hiring teams that understand that makes the series tick results in sales and critical acclaim.

Sonic Team just doesn't get it. They constantly try reinventing the wheel, avoiding anything that didn't work instead of inproving or fixing the problems. They never grow, just change. It's obvious they have talented people, but the direction is all over the map. It needs to change, someone who has a clear vision needs to reign it in.
 

LukarWuff

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,333
You'd think they would have kept the Mania devs around after how successful that game was.
 

kejigoto

Banned
Sep 15, 2019
187
If we getting Mania and that kind of return to form for Sonic means we had to give up other so-so entries which seem infinitely better because of how bad the main releases are I am totally fine with that.

I'm someone who has been playing Sonic 3 & Knuckles since both games released just waiting for Sonic to get back to his roots and that sort of game design.

Outside of Generations and Colors there really hasn't been any major standouts. The Rush series was alright for the time and trying to bridge the gap between 2D and 3D in terms of game design but even then the games were short and felt like they were missing something. The spin-offs are whatever and honestly not why I'm a Sonic fan or what I expect from a Sonic release.

I have no issues waiting for Mania 2 and Sonic Team to figure out their next move after seeing the response to Mania and the lack of a response to Forces.
 

IronicSonic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,613
I dont know what to believe anymore, but I miss the smaller projects like the Advance/Rush series between big games. Sega could starts a new 2D series with Mania but here we are.

I liked TSR anyway.
 

Belthazar90

Member
Jun 3, 2019
228
We had two games two years ago, one that was amazing and lived by fans and critics alike and other that's far from what people make it out to be (is it inspired? yes. But it's fun while it lasts and the mechanics are good). Y'all complain way too much.
 

Gum

Member
Nov 1, 2017
183
I feel you, OP. With 2006 at least they were at least still attempting the JRPG story Sonic epic that Sonic Adventure somehow stuck the landing on. These days at least we get incredible fan stuff like Sonic Mania and Sonic Robo Blast Kart.

I really honestly think Sonic would be a good fit for the Yakuza team.
 

Sixfortyfive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,217
Give me a Mania 2 on the next set of consoles and I'm good on Sonic for another 5 years or so.

The only two games I remember from 2005-2008 are '06 and Rush, and I couldn't stand either of them.
 

NoKisum

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,624
DMV Area, USA
I prefer nothing for a few years if it means Sonic Team is taking a good long hard look in the mirror after the schlacking that was Sonic Mania's reception compared to Forces... But it's Sonic Team. So, I doubt it.
Sadly, Forces was the result of Sonic Team stepping back, taking a good long hard look in the mirror, getting their resources together, and trying to produce a AAA product. There's no hope for Sonic Team. But they hold all the power.
 
Jan 11, 2018
2,619
Hard for me to feel sorry for Sonic fans when fans of other series can only dream of getting releases on such a consistent basis.

You got a 2D AND and 3D game in 2017. You got a brand new racing game this year. You got a party game spinoff this year. They will no doubt be something or another next year to tide fans over until the next main installment. Try being a Metroid or a Half-Life fan.
 

DjDeathCool

Member
Oct 28, 2017
643
Bismarck, ND
Sadly, Forces was the result of Sonic Team stepping back, taking a good long hard look in the mirror, getting their resources together, and trying to produce a AAA product. There's no hope for Sonic Team. But they hold all the power.
Is there any room for the possibility of Sonic Team hiring Head Canon to do consulting work on their next title?
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
United Kingdom
Hard for me to feel sorry for Sonic fans when fans of other series can only dream of getting releases on such a consistent basis.

You got a 2D AND and 3D game in 2017. You got a brand new racing game this year. You got a party game spinoff this year. They will no doubt be something or another next year to tide fans over until the next main installment. Try being a Metroid or a Half-Life fan.
This. Or any of the other 2D or 3D platformers that died years ago like Goemon, Rocket Knight, Banjo, Conker, Earthworm Jim etc. Sonic is one of the last ones from the 90s still ticking.
 

Samemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
456
Hard for me to feel sorry for Sonic fans when fans of other series can only dream of getting releases on such a consistent basis.

You got a 2D AND and 3D game in 2017. You got a brand new racing game this year. You got a party game spinoff this year. They will no doubt be something or another next year to tide fans over until the next main installment. Try being a Metroid or a Half-Life fan.
I'd trade the last 15 years of sonic games for an ambitious, polished and competently designed Sonic game coming early next year.
 

NoKisum

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,624
DMV Area, USA
Is there any room for the possibility of Sonic Team hiring Head Canon to do consulting work on their next title?
Everyone involved in Mania has moved on, and hasn't heard from Sonic Team since Mania's release. Hell, Stealth had to put up a video cancelling his recent kickstarter project because the team got no money from Mania after release, despite how well it sold, and I think he had to file for bankruptcy. The best team got the worst treatment for the sheer fact that they're not Sonic Team.
Hard for me to feel sorry for Sonic fans when fans of other series can only dream of getting releases on such a consistent basis.

You got a 2D AND and 3D game in 2017. You got a brand new racing game this year. You got a party game spinoff this year. They will no doubt be something or another next year to tide fans over until the next main installment. Try being a Metroid or a Half-Life fan.
So you're saying you want every Half-Life or Metroid game to be an inch away in quality from Bubsy 3D, with an occasional gem every decade? Because it ain't a good feeling.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,651
I still feel Adventure set it all on this course. It was such a misread in terms of it being the first proper 3D Sonic game. When Nintendo moved Mario in 3D they made sure to get his basics down. The movement, jumping, platforming etc. So that ultimately meant there were no additional playable characters or even character like Yoshi to help Mario. But it also meant that they were able to nail down what Mario is supposed to feel like in 3D. So eventually they could start doing stuff like Sunshine and Galaxy where they were more experimental with the gameplay. Meanwhile Sega decided to make six playable characters, that all play differently, for their first 3D venture. So they didn't get the basics down because they spread everything out. And now two decades later the problem remains. Sonic has never felt right in 3D. And it's not because it can't be done right, it's because they seem to refuse to make a simple and straight forward 3D Sonic game. A 3D equivalent to the original Sonic the Hedgehog where they can just get the basics down.
 

VinylCassette64

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,220
We've been saying this for years now and nothing ever comes of it.
Pretty much. Even when they're told they're doing something right by a large margin of audiences (Colors/Gens getting generally positive reviews); they operate on their own wavelength regardless.

And in fairness, the broader market has responded in kind. Sonic games nowadays aren't selling as they used to ten years ago, let alone twenty.

Forces probably killed the series worse than 06. Sega isn't investing money into this
I'd say the Boom spinoff brand was the bigger catalyst in Sega refocusing their financial investments elsewhere from the Sonic IP. "Spinoff" or no, Sega sunk in a ton on money on a show that didn't really takeoff in ratings and two games that were prolific failures in sales and reviews. Is it really any wonder that Sega as a whole began restructuring a few months after the fallout from Rise of Lyric?
 

PyratRum

Member
Oct 30, 2017
114
Any body have some speculation on why the Sonic IP is so mismanaged by Sega? Particularly Sonic Team.

I often wonder wtf they're thinking when it comes to the to their output. I mean we're talking about a studio that released stuff like Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Nights, and PSO. I just don't understand.
 

RockmanBN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Cornfields, Nebraska
Everyone involved in Mania has moved on, and hasn't heard from Sonic Team since Mania's release. Hell, Stealth had to put up a video cancelling his recent kickstarter project because the team got no money from Mania after release, despite how well it sold, and I think he had to file for bankruptcy. The best team got the worst treatment for the sheer fact that they're not Sonic Team.

So you're saying you want every Half-Life or Metroid game to be an inch away in quality from Bubsy 3D, with an occasional gem every decade? Because it ain't a good feeling.
Sad to see how the people who gave them Sonic the best game in so long have been ignored while their main team is putting out rubbish. Sumo got screwed with the low budget for Racing which is why it looks barren.
 
Jan 11, 2018
2,619
I'd trade the last 15 years of sonic games for an ambitious, polished and competently designed Sonic game coming early next year.
So you're saying you want every Half-Life or Metroid game to be an inch away in quality from Bubsy 3D, with an occasional gem every decade? Because it ain't a good feeling.
I'm saying the OP's point was a supposed lack of releases, which is absurd. Obviously quality is a whole other thing. Maybe if Sonic Team actually takes their time, they can make a good game instead of crapping out turds every year or two.
 

Aprikurt

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,210
Everyone involved in Mania has moved on, and hasn't heard from Sonic Team since Mania's release. Hell, Stealth had to put up a video cancelling his recent kickstarter project because the team got no money from Mania after release, despite how well it sold, and I think he had to file for bankruptcy. The best team got the worst treatment for the sheer fact that they're not Sonic Team.

So you're saying you want every Half-Life or Metroid game to be an inch away in quality from Bubsy 3D, with an occasional gem every decade? Because it ain't a good feeling.
Wait are you actually fucking serious?

We’re not getting Mania 2?!

Yeah, kill the franchise. Move on.
 

Hu3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,051
I don’t understand why sonic fans can’t let it just die in peace. Just turning and twisting the poor thing corpse.